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crazypeltast52 posted:I assume STEM kids have employment of some kind thrown at them upon graduation This is an unfortunate assumption that a few of my more mediocre acqueintances made. It's probably more correlated to their merit than to their degree, and they're more or less surviving these days but still. E: remember my friend who was going to get fired at that call center for being too slow at a customer service job? Well he got canned, and is unable to find any employment whatsoever. Unfortunately, I think he just kind of sucks and has always had people bailing him out, so I really don't know what the solution is for him. It's kind of sad to see because he's clearly spiraling into a depression while his smart, driven but very green fiance toils away at a $15/hr job to pay their bills. Anyways, he often spoke of the 50k+ jobs he would easily land while watching me bust my rear end to keep an entry level 35k job + generate a little income off freelance. His dissonance mostly stemmed (heh) from the fact that he was getting a science degree but the real world is kicking his rear end real bad. KingSlime fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 02:26
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Taking the loan seems fine to me, it probably won't make any difference either way. Either he gets a job and pays it off quickly or he doesn't and he's hosed either way. He's not just imagining that it's easy, he cited his school's statistics. Not having a junior year internship certainly means he's closer to that 5% than I'd like, but he's probably fine. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 02:31
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5k is not going to matter for an EECE grad. his overall attitude of being a little poo poo is a problem but the 5k itself is basically inconsequential in his situation.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:34
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yeah you guys are probably right on that, and there's nothing that subreddit loves more than fixating on lovely attitudes
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Jun 16, 2017 02:36
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Hoodwinker posted:When you try to talk to somebody about something they don't understand and don't really have any interest in understanding, they hear noises like the voices of adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon. I didn't understand this until I was in my mid twenties and was interested to find it out, rather than angry.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:42
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Whether it fucks him or not taking a loan to fund a summer of loving off is BWM regardless. Trying not to be too judgemental but you know, plenty of people work poo poo summer jobs earlier on specifically so they can fund a summer of fun later before they settle down. I realize I'm doing some virtual finger-wagging here but for christs sakes, the earlier you learn to own your problems and be in control of your life the happier you will be later. And the easier it will be on everyone else too.
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Jun 16, 2017 02:45
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Ixian posted:Whether it fucks him or not taking a loan to fund a summer of loving off is BWM regardless. Trying not to be too judgemental but you know, plenty of people work poo poo summer jobs earlier on specifically so they can fund a summer of fun later before they settle down. How else will he learn to start running up the credit cards to take summer vacations if he doesn't start now?
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Jun 16, 2017 02:48
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Zo posted:5k is not going to matter for an EECE grad. his overall attitude of being a little poo poo is a problem but the 5k itself is basically inconsequential in his situation. You think? Not being able to find any career-relevant work going into his junior year is a pretty big red flag that he's not as appealing a candidate as he thinks. (Pretty sure it's a he? Phone-posting) Like yeah average outcomes are better in engineering but I'm not sold that it's any guarantee of well-paying work
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Jun 16, 2017 03:05
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it depends on the school and specific fields, but for example my university's statistics was like 97% employment for engineering and literally 100% for computer science (i specifically remember reading this) when i was there. anecdotally, all good jobs. i know about the hot new meme where even STEMs supposedly can't find jobs but it's mostly because "STEM" is a huge vague label that includes poo poo like academics (which have always been insanely competitive). computer science and engineering are still very very safe outside of garbage schools. finding an intenship or not is also not a clear sign of anything since different schools put different emphasis on internships. for example, they're entirely optional at the university of toronto (many people doing one or zero), but at waterloo you need to complete 20 months of internships or you can't even graduate.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:19
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monster on a stick posted:How else will he learn to start running up the credit cards to take summer vacations if he doesn't start now? The depressing thing is how true that actually is. One more idiot in training we'll all be bailing out a fraction of a penny each later on.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:20
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At least we'll see big returns ITT.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:26
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Doc Hawkins posted:At least we'll see big returns ITT. Reading the BWM thread is GWM.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:29
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Krispy Kareem posted:And yes. I meant 5 figures. Aw, I was going to fist-bump you and feel less bad about the cheque I wrote the IRS this year.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:53
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Eldred posted:You think? Not being able to find any career-relevant work going into his junior year is a pretty big red flag that he's not as appealing a candidate as he thinks. (Pretty sure it's a he? Phone-posting) I like making GBS threads on lazy kids as much as the next guy, but this is literally untrue. A lot of people in my state school BSEE program didn't do anything career-relevant between soph and junior years and turned out just peachy. It's not foolproof, but I know that at least in 2012 even my friends with GPAs in the low 2s were coming out with 50k+ offers.
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Jun 16, 2017 03:56
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Not a Children posted:I like making GBS threads on lazy kids as much as the next guy, but this is literally untrue. A lot of people in my state school BSEE program didn't do anything career-relevant between soph and junior years and turned out just peachy. My perspective is colored at least in part because my employer takes on a lot of freshly minted engineering grads and a lot of them just do not make it for lack of career skills. Like yeah they can get through the door, but do they last? On the other hand the plural of anecdote is not data and I'm willing to concede that I'm guilty of cognitive bias  Edit to clarify: I just mean that the outcomes of the bottom of an engineering class may not necessarily be as rosy as they look based on job placement figures for the average engineering student. This is fresh on my mind from reading Everybody Lies, where the author describes research that indicates that the effect of elite education is less than conventional wisdom indicates. I am wondering if the perceived effect of engineering education is also skewed. No offense is intended to engineering grads Eldred fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 04:08
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Ixian posted:Not really a derail in my opinion - since at the core, it is a BWM/BWL discussion - but I've never understood the survivalist mentality when it comes to precious metals/stones. The ammo component is fairly inevitable since you will have to be heavily armed anyway. So, ammo serves dual purposes. Hoodwinker posted:Shut up, dummies.
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Jun 16, 2017 05:38
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Welp you were right: he melted down. Edit: hello whole other page I missed
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Jun 16, 2017 10:17
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Eldred posted:My perspective is colored at least in part because my employer takes on a lot of freshly minted engineering grads and a lot of them just do not make it for lack of career skills. Like yeah they can get through the door, but do they last? Nah, you're on the money. Engineering degrees are enough to say, "Ok, you're theorerically capable of doing the work necessary," but you don't know poo poo until you've been working for a few years. Companies that hire new grads more or less know that they're going to be worthless for serious work for about six months and will need to be supervised for a while. My job is one of the few that does really intense training of new engineers - as in, engineering degrees are already fairly tough, but this training is an order of magnitude harder, just so their new hires are useful quicker. If you don't actually enjoy math and analysis though (or if you're bad at it) you're probably not going to last long as an engineer. This is despite 90% of engineering jobs seem to be making crappy PowerPoint presentations on the results of the analysis you did. At least it feels that way.
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Jun 16, 2017 13:29
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I don't know how it is in the states but in Canada once you get an engineering degree you have to have 4 years of relevant experience under supervision of a seasoned engineer before you can call yourself an engineer. After getting a degree, but before your 4 years of practical experience is approved by the provincial engineering association, you are only considered an engineer in training with no real authority to sign off on anything.
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Jun 16, 2017 14:34
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Bajaha posted:I don't know how it is in the states but in Canada once you get an engineering degree you have to have 4 years of relevant experience under supervision of a seasoned engineer before you can call yourself an engineer. After getting a degree, but before your 4 years of practical experience is approved by the provincial engineering association, you are only considered an engineer in training with no real authority to sign off on anything. Becoming a licensed Professional Engineer in the US is similar (degree, 4 years experience, plus passing exams). It varies state to state whether you can use the term "engineer" if you are not a P.E.
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Jun 16, 2017 15:49
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jjack229 posted:Becoming a licensed Professional Engineer in the US is similar (degree, 4 years experience, plus passing exams). It varies state to state whether you can use the term "engineer" if you are not a P.E. It also varies from company to company if anyone even cares about PE. In my company, an aerospace defense contractor, probably less than 10% of the engineers have a PE and those that do got them 20+ years ago when they were still relevant.
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Jun 16, 2017 17:07
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It's mainly relevant if you're doing public works or infrastructure type work. Anything that has to go for governmental permitting, basically. I got my PE license 4 years ago and haven't stamped a single drawing since. Not BWM since my company paid for all the costs, I guess, but studying for the test sucked.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:16
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jjack229 posted:Becoming a licensed Professional Engineer in the US is similar (degree, 4 years experience, plus passing exams). It varies state to state whether you can use the term "engineer" if you are not a P.E. Many states have an Engineering Intern (E.I.) or Engineer-in-Training (EIT) designation that you can use after passing the Fundamentals of Engineering exam but prior qualifying as a PE. Xenoborg posted:It also varies from company to company if anyone even cares about PE. In my company, an aerospace defense contractor, probably less than 10% of the engineers have a PE and those that do got them 20+ years ago when they were still relevant. The variability is more between industries than companies. If major clients in a given industry start requiring PE stamps, you can bet that needing to (eventually) get your PE when working in that industry will become standard, regardless of which company you work for.
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Jun 16, 2017 19:49
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brugroffil posted:It's mainly relevant if you're doing public works or infrastructure type work. Anything that has to go for governmental permitting, basically. I got my PE license 4 years ago and haven't stamped a single drawing since. Not BWM since my company paid for all the costs, I guess, but studying for the test sucked. Don't you dare call yourself an engineer when filing a complaint to the city unless you have a license to practice math. $500 fine in Beaverton, OR https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/30/business/traffic-light-fine.html
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Jun 16, 2017 19:55
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jjack229 posted:Becoming a licensed Professional Engineer in the US is similar (degree, 4 years experience, plus passing exams). It varies state to state whether you can use the term "engineer" if you are not a P.E. It is interesting that the vast majority of new engineers in recent years (software and systems) don't even do work relevant to a PE in most cases. Ornamented Death posted:Hell, if I'm not mistaken, those particular types of engineers don't even have their own separate PE exam - they have to take the electrical engineer version. Is that what they do in states that require them to get licensed, rather than change the title to 'developer' or 'systems administrator'? Seems like an unnecessary hassle, but I've only worked in states where anyone can be an engineer. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 21:19
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:It is interesting that the vast majority of new engineers in recent years (software and systems) don't even do work relevant to a PE in most cases. Hell, if I'm not mistaken, those particular types of engineers don't even have their own separate PE exam - they have to take the electrical engineer version.
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Jun 16, 2017 21:34
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Walked in to a MLM store today, I didn't even know that was a thing. Store was called Good n Healthy and had a sign out front advertising smoothies. I wanted something different for lunch today so I popped in. They had a bunch of shake flavors, seemed reasonably priced, and my lunch break was ending so I ordered one. As I was waiting I noticed all the Herbalife promotional materials with photos of people that have lost weight using the products, etc. Behind the counter was a dry erase board with the store goal of 107 paid shakes. I have a hard time seeing 100 people going into the store in a week, but they have been "in business" over a year. I get someone's idea that they can make money with no overhead selling to people, but leasing a storefront is a whole new level of crazy. I can't imagine the margins they have to keep up with.
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Jun 16, 2017 22:41
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They're not making money from the shakes. They're making money from convincing people to sell that poo poo outside the store and taking a cut from those saps.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:03
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canyoneer posted:Don't you dare call yourself an engineer when filing a complaint to the city unless you have a license to practice math. $500 fine in Beaverton, OR I thought this was going to be one of those stories where the headline is insane, but you read the article and it turns out there's a reasonable explanation. It wasn't one of those times.
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Jun 16, 2017 23:44
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One dirty little secret of STEM jobs is that if you are mediocre or otherwise bad at interviews, you may have a terrible time finding non crap jobs. You need some skill, talent, and passion to succeed, and a degree shows basically none of that to an appreciable extent.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:24
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Ornamented Death posted:Hell, if I'm not mistaken, those particular types of engineers don't even have their own separate PE exam - they have to take the electrical engineer version. When I graduated, the rule was that they can take any version they like as long as they pass one, if the test doesn't exist for the major itself. You'd do the E.I.T exam (FE test) and then work under a PE for however many years until you're eligible for the PE exam. That's actually where it broke down for me; there was no biomedical engineering FE exam so I took the ChemE one, and then I discovered that basically nobody has a PE in the pharma industry, so I never had anyone to work under in a relevant capacity. 11 years later, I remain at 0 eligible years of work experience toward my PE. 
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Jun 17, 2017 00:36
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baquerd posted:One dirty little secret of STEM jobs is that if you are mediocre or otherwise bad at interviews, you may have a terrible time finding non crap jobs. You need some skill, talent, and passion to succeed, and a degree shows basically none of that to an appreciable extent. Thankfully everyone else interviewing for the position has autism too, so it's not as tough as other positions. E: not sure if this counted as talking about myself. 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 00:47
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Krispy Kareem posted:This probably doesn't count as a humblebrag because holy poo poo I got a large raise at my last job and it killed us in taxes. As in, I already had zero deductions and I ended up with a 6 digit tax bill because we moved up brackets. Marginal tax rates, sure. But if you get caught off guard and don't withhold enough the IRS eats your loving rear end in extra fees. Just as a reminder to everyone, the rule is against "talking about yourself", not just humblebrags (although this is definitely a humblebrag lol)  p.s. genuine congrats on the raise and truley sorry for your lots, that sounds like a pain
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Jun 17, 2017 00:59
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savesthedayrocks posted:Walked in to a MLM store today, I didn't even know that was a thing. They touch on this in a great documentary called "Betting on Zero." They are called nutrition clubs, aren't supposed to show any outward Herbalife branding (but can do it inside the store), and the true income is from getting people into the MLM scheme. Either the storefront owners go broke trying to recruit enough people to keep the MLM alive, or they are able to find a sucker to take over the storefront lease when they realize they aren't making any money.
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Jun 17, 2017 01:51
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kimcicle posted:They touch on this in a great documentary called "Betting on Zero." They are called nutrition clubs, aren't supposed to show any outward Herbalife branding (but can do it inside the store), and the true income is from getting people into the MLM scheme. Either the storefront owners go broke trying to recruit enough people to keep the MLM alive, or they are able to find a sucker to take over the storefront lease when they realize they aren't making any money. I just watched this documentary yesterday, and can absolutely recommend it as well. Really interesting
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Jun 17, 2017 02:07
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DarkHorse posted:Nah, you're on the money. Engineering degrees are enough to say, "Ok, you're theorerically capable of doing the work necessary," but you don't know poo poo until you've been working for a few years. Companies that hire new grads more or less know that they're going to be worthless for serious work for about six months and will need to be supervised for a while. My job is one of the few that does really intense training of new engineers - as in, engineering degrees are already fairly tough, but this training is an order of magnitude harder, just so their new hires are useful quicker. Consulting is the exact same way, but on a shortened timescale. Either be able to be left alone with a client and justify your rate after a year of heavy coaching, or get fired.
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Jun 17, 2017 04:11
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Zo posted:it depends on the school and specific fields, but for example my university's statistics was like 97% employment for engineering and literally 100% for computer science (i specifically remember reading this) when i was there. anecdotally, all good jobs. The "S" part of STEM has basically no career path in the discipline unless you get a Ph.D. A BS in chemistry or biology basically qualifies to you be a lab-rat. You can of course apply for a generic white-collar position that doesn't really care what you majored in, but holders of those degrees don't necessarily seek them out.
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Jun 17, 2017 05:00
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Powerlurker posted:The "S" part of STEM has basically no career path in the discipline unless you get a Ph.D. A BS in chemistry or biology basically qualifies to you be a lab-rat. You can of course apply for a generic white-collar position that doesn't really care what you majored in, but holders of those degrees don't necessarily seek them out. Very few positions for those with a PhD as well in science.
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Jun 17, 2017 05:11
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Powerlurker posted:The "S" part of STEM has basically no career path in the discipline unless you get a Ph.D. A BS in chemistry or biology basically qualifies to you be a lab-rat. You can of course apply for a generic white-collar position that doesn't really care what you majored in, but holders of those degrees don't necessarily seek them out. The degree by itself if worthless. You need experience too. The biggest mistake I see is kids in college focusing exclusively on academics and graduating with a great degree and a good GPA, but no experience. If you're still in college, find a prof and work in their lab. Ask your academic advisor for assistance. They probably have a list of profs willing to take undergrad researchers. You can count your years working part time as an undergrad researcher or technician for the 1-3 years' experience requirement on most jobs. If you have already graduated and don't have any experience, you gotta get experience first before you get the career track job. Go temp for a year or two. Aerotek and Kelly are the best from the temp's point of view. Your first temp gig will probably suck and you'll hate it. Do it well and the temp firm will give you a better assignment the next time. After a year or two working poo poo jobs for poo poo money, you're qualified for the career track ones. If you find yourself at any point trapped by a ceiling (they never hire temps, they require a PhD for promotion to team lead, etc.), move jobs. Don't extrapolate your experience at one place to everywhere. You'll also likely get a big pay raise when you switch jobs.
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Jun 17, 2017 13:23
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Dik Hz posted:Speaking as someone who hires and promotes BS, MS, and PhD chemists, this is flat out incorrect. Some companies only promote PhDs, but they're the minority. Or you just say "screw this" and get a generic office job that is easier and pays better and doesn't care what your degree is. I myself got off the research plantation and went into technical sales.
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Jun 17, 2017 14:51
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