|
BurningStone posted:Why do you think Rudolf and Krauss are accomplices instead of fooled by the fake death? The text made a big deal of saying that even Erika's examinations weren't perfect. Gee, I wonder, why would Nanjo be absent from the confirmed fake death? Tell me, how was he supposed to have died again? Why, when Krauss, and Rudolf see him, do they immediately go to confirming its a closed room and not that Battler is actually dead? They literally don't even check for breathing or a pulse. There is no unmistakable wound like missing half a head and Nanjo (an accomplice) is not around to prevent them from checking. Heres the scene for you: quote:When Krauss pushed a switch on the wall, the guest room lit up, and the figure lying on the bed came into view... Furthermore, In the scene shortly afterward its not actually said that Erika was able to directly check the bodies afterward, simply that she ran around and quickly looked at the crime scenes.
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 22:46
|
|
"Battleeer... Battleeeeeeer... dammiiiiit... aaaaaaahhhhh..."
"H, how sad..."
"...I can't believe it, but this room is also... a closed room."
"Wh, what, again...?!"
"Yes... My study, where Kyrie-san was, Natsuhi's room, the VIP room with Eva, the parlor with Rosa and her daughter... And now Battler-kun in this guest room. They're all closed rooms, aren't they...? I don't... understand... It couldn't be suicide, could it...?!"
"That's impossible...!! How could this be a suicide?! Aaaaggggghhh... Battleeeeeeer..."
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 19:48 |
|
|
Qrr posted:Without a seal, she could have used blue text that he walked out of the room. It would have been just as effective with a broken seal as with no seal. And he could've perhaps responded with some inconsequental but effective red, or even refused to respond for the time being leaving Erika no red to work with. Maybe he could have said the witch temporarily resurrected Battler who then walked out of the room, preserving the illusion of the witch and rendering the blue essentially worthless. I don't know, I'm not that creative, but the situation you're describing was clearly the one he was expecting in the first place so you'd think he already had some kind of a plan to counter it. Unless he's trying to put himself in fool's mate on purpose.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 22:50
|
|
|
tiistai posted:And he could've perhaps responded with some inconsequental but effective red, or even refused to respond for the time being leaving Erika no red to work with. Maybe he could have said the witch temporarily resurrected Battler who then walked out of the room, preserving the illusion of the witch and rendering the blue essentially worthless. I don't know, I'm not that creative, but the situation you're describing was clearly the one he was expecting in the first place so you'd think he already had some kind of a plan to counter it. Unless he's trying to put himself in fool's mate on purpose. If he refuses to answer then he loses - blue must be answered with red. If he says that Battler was rezzed and walked out, well, that would also work with a broken seal. If he was prepared to counter blue about Battler being alive and walking out, how does that preparation not work if the door was monitored? There's a reason witches have worked so hard to create closed rooms, and it's because an open room is easy to counter. But he already had an open room before she sealed it. So if he could find a way to keep her seal intact then that would be powerful, but if he had that he should have closed the room in the first place. He doesn't and didn't.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 22:58
|
|
|
witchcore ricepunk posted:I frankly think what you're asking for would make for a bad story. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
witchcore ricepunk posted:The suggestion of collusion is, as Lisonfire pointed out, the fact that they played along with Battler's faked death. I would also add the fact that they are playing along with Kanon being in the room with them when he is not. To go even further, I would say that, in all of the episodes, anyone who plays along with Kanon and Shannon being two separate people in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are not is an accomplice. Because my interpretation of these stories hinges on the theory that Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice inhabit one body—a theory that is supported by the love battle, the front half of Episode 2, and the concept of "furniture." I believe that theory is the key to solving a lot of little mysteries as well as the central one. The first is usable as a possible clue, yes. Again, circular logic is not. I can easily say that the clue that they are separate people is that they're in separate rooms right now, which is why they're separate people. For the exact same reason, neither are valid. Anything that must rely on circular logic to exist is questionable as evidence by nature. Are you trying to imply that everyone, including Erika, is in on it? Because that's what you'd have to be implying to explain episode 5. Everyone is in the same room, including Shannon and Kanon is pretty overwhelming evidence that they are not the same person, and that's a truth which has been observed by everyone. Lastly, Genji also refers to himself as furniture. Is that supposed to imply that he's a separate personality as well? Why can we not go by the much simpler logic of 'they do not treat themselves as human'? On a mildly different note, anyone have any idea why Hideyoshi was apparently included in the list of people that went into the closed rooms? We can presume the reason (Eva), but I couldn't find any reference as to when that occurred. Qrr posted:If the seal on the door is broken she's in pretty much the same scenario as having no seal at all. Without a seal, she could have used blue text that he walked out of the room. It would have been just as effective with a broken seal as with no seal. The point is that his options then drop substantially, because the seals work as 'observing the process'. In the cup example, let's say the cup was taped down before Maria's eyes were closed. Maria opens her eyes and the tape seals are found to be broken before the cup is lifted. The process of "lifting the cup and tossing a candy in" has been observed, therefore there's no opportunity to even create magic and say 'a candy magically appeared inside the overturned cup'. Yes, a blue truth can be used on either. But the illusion of mystery is what allows magic to exist in the first place, as noted here: ProfessorProf posted:Then, there is another kind, which we might call true magic: 'magic that matches a result'. The cup trick is an example of 'magic that matches a result', since an observer actually checks to see that the cup's contents were empty before the candy appears, and thus an actual observer is gained. I have noticed that, unlike the magic of illusions, magic that matches a result must follow one big rule. The rule is... that only the unobserved process of what you accomplished can be transformed into magic. Since the seals act as an 'observer' midway, it's no longer an 'unobserved process', and thus cannot be transformed into magic. Lisonfire posted:Gee, I wonder, why would Nanjo be absent from the confirmed fake death? Tell me, how was he supposed to have died again? Why, when Krauss, and Rudolf see him, do they immediately go to confirming its a closed room and not that Battler is actually dead? They literally don't even check for breathing or a pulse. There is no unmistakable wound like missing half a head and Nanjo (an accomplice) is not around to prevent them from checking. I do certainly think there's something fishy about that (as I previously noted), but why would that be a suggestion that they're in on Shannon=Kanon, versus a different conspiracy? Also, reminder that the scene you're referencing is just as vulnerable to "this didn't happen" as is any other scene that has not been seen by Erika, so make sure to not hinge everything on that. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jun 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
Qrr posted:If he refuses to answer then he loses - blue must be answered with red. Nope, all the witch side needs is one unsolvable mystery. As long as Battler has another trick up his sleeve, he's not out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 23:24
|
|
|
tiistai posted:Nope, all the witch side needs is one unsolvable mystery. As long as Battler has another trick up his sleeve, he's not out. The specific line referencing that:  "Then allow me to impose the same rule on you. At the time the game ends, the human side will be granted one minute to counter the mysteries it has been given. If even a single mystery has not been countered within that time, it becomes the witch's victory, and that game is over. It would be such a killjoy to have the game stopped for lengthy consideration, right?"
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:I do certainly think there's something fishy about that (as I previously noted), but why would that be a suggestion that they're in on Shannon=Kanon, versus a different conspiracy? quote:Also, reminder that the scene you're referencing is just as vulnerable to "this didn't happen" as is any other scene that has not been seen by Erika, so make sure to not hinge everything on that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 23:48
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:The specific line referencing that: I try to forget about that, since the witch side would win trivially: don't say anything until the deadline, forcing the detective to pick their blue blindly. Then break as much of it as possible with new red truths and have time expire before the detective can get replacement blue theories out of their mouth. Honestly, given enough time and tries, the detective side should always win. The best the witch can do it frustrate them into giving up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
The one-minute rule was never really enforced, but the rest is. The human side wins if they explain how every trick was performed. The witch side wins if they provide at least one trick that the human side can't explain.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2017 23:53
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:Honestly, given enough time and tries, the detective side should always win. The best the witch can do it frustrate them into giving up. Funnily enough, instead the detective side frustrated the witch into giving up and killing herself
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 00:02
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:This isn't relevant. The Shannon = Kanon theory is the theory being put forth, and this evidence supports it by suggesting a solution to the "seperate bodies in two rooms" problem. It could support other theories, but that doesn't make this one less supported. Actually, the existence of two equally valid theories makes both of them less supported. That's how Battler kept the game going at the end of episode 5. ProfessorProf posted:The one-minute rule was never really enforced, but the rest is. The human side wins if they explain how every trick was performed. The witch side wins if they provide at least one trick that the human side can't explain. I think the point of the one-minute rule is that's how long the human side has to start presenting their blue. In episode 4 once the final duel starts, they don't stop until the battle is finished. And then Lambdadelta takes over and the laws of the universe mean nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:This isn't relevant. The Shannon = Kanon theory is the theory being put forth, and this evidence supports it by suggesting a solution to the "seperate bodies in two rooms" problem. It could support other theories, but that doesn't make this one less supported. The result can be the same without the process being the same. As such, it may not be the case that they realized Battler is 'dead' on sight. BurningStone posted:I try to forget about that, since the witch side would win trivially: don't say anything until the deadline, forcing the detective to pick their blue blindly. Then break as much of it as possible with new red truths and have time expire before the detective can get replacement blue theories out of their mouth. I assumed the time resets every time blue is foiled or presented, because otherwise it really doesn't make sense because it'd take more than a minute to present theories anyways. I assumed it was more a 'no answer' clause than anything else. ZiegeDame posted:Actually, the existence of two equally valid theories makes both of them less supported. That's how Battler kept the game going at the end of episode 5.. I'm pretty sure that was solely the case because Battler's blue was explicitly a denial of Erika's. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jun 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 00:12
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:Actually, the existence of two equally valid theories makes both of them less supported. That's how Battler kept the game going at the end of episode 5. 1) No one has actually made a theory that uses this information other than the S=K theory, so this is irrelevant at the moment. 2) It doesn't "make them less supported", it means they can't both be true at once. We aren't really at the point where we can declare things to be absolutely true, but there is still tons of evidence to support theories, which is what these are. Since we aren't up to the end of the game yet and there is still more evidence to come, this is irrelevant. 3) Even if it becomes relevant, It casts doubt on the theory, but isn't actually counter-evidence. One of the theories must be wrong, but it doesn't actually do anything to disprove them. Cyouni posted:I will concede the first point. By Knox's rules (#9) it is permitted for a character to voice their own interpretation. The scene is from Rudolf's perspective. If there's something untrue about it its because he is lying about the scene. The scene as read says he didn't even check to see if his own son was dead. Even if the result is the same, if it didn't happen that way, it means Rudolf is lying for some reason, and given the fact that Battler is alive, It is reasonable to conclude that Rudolf (and Krauss, simply because he could easily contradict him) is working with the culprit. You could probably come up with some other theory for this, but you have to actually, you know, come up with the theory, and not just say the possibility of a theory exists, because that's not any better then small bombs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 01:30
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:By Knox's rules (#9) it is permitted for a character to voice their own interpretation. The scene is from Rudolf's perspective. If there's something untrue about it its because he is lying about the scene. The scene as read says he didn't even check to see if his own son was dead. Even if the result is the same, if it didn't happen that way, it means Rudolf is lying for some reason, and given the fact that Battler is alive, It is reasonable to conclude that Rudolf (and Krauss, simply because he could easily contradict him) is working with the culprit. You could probably come up with some other theory for this, but you have to actually, you know, come up with the theory, and not just say the possibility of a theory exists, because that's not any better then small bombs. By that logic, you're forced to admit that Kyrie saw Eva BEATRICE and fought both stake sisters and rabbit soldiers with magic arrows. Or that we can just assume George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon are the killers this time around and call it a day. Or that Kanon came back to life and instantly cut both Nanjo and Kumasawa's throats before vanishing into golden butterflies. Not everything we're presented with is exactly as seen. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jun 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 01:38
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:By that logic, you're forced to admit that Kyrie saw Eva BEATRICE and fought both stake sisters and rabbit soldiers with magic arrows. Or that we can just assume George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon are the killers this time around and call it a day. Or that Kanon came back to life and instantly cut both Nanjo and Kumasawa's throats before vanishing into golden butterflies. Not everything we're presented with is exactly as seen. The Kyrie scenes are from the perspective of the witch. The Trial of Love scenes take place in the meta world. The Kanon coming back to life scene is literally from the perspective of multiple people everyone thinks are accomplices. Its almost like there is some method to distinguish truth from fiction. Like the author includes scenes to tell the reader something and omits things like Rudolf checking to see if his own son is alive to tell the reader something else. Maybe... just maybe you can find meaningful information from non-objective viewpoints?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 01:56
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:By that logic, you're forced to admit that Kyrie saw Eva BEATRICE and fought both stake sisters and rabbit soldiers with magic arrows. Or that we can just assume George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon are the killers this time around and call it a day. Or that Kanon came back to life and instantly cut both Nanjo and Kumasawa's throats before vanishing into golden butterflies. Well obviously 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:By that logic, you're forced to admit that Kyrie saw Eva BEATRICE and fought both stake sisters and rabbit soldiers with magic arrows. Or that we can just assume George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon are the killers this time around and call it a day. Or that Kanon came back to life and instantly cut both Nanjo and Kumasawa's throats before vanishing into golden butterflies. Not everything we're presented with is exactly as seen. Well, look, as much as the game claimed in this last update that ProfessorProf posted:Ironically, this also proves that magic doesn't exist, but out of respect for the witch's game, let's call it making the game solvable and fair for the human player. I actually disagree. If a "magic trick" can later be retconned to have a different human solution than the one that was originally intended --- and indeed it can: ProfessorProf posted:In actuality, the candy had been put in the cup while Maria's eyes were closed. However, if, when Erika saw through that, Maria had used the red truth to say that the closed room of the cup had been preserved... The witch would have to rush and revise the scenario to a new trick that 'still worked logically' after that new red. Revising the scenario is an unfair move that would never be allowed in mysteries. However, the very act of revising the scenario takes place inside the witch's head, which is an unobservable world. So, if she claims that she'd been using the trick with the fake-bottomed cup 'from the beginning', no one could deny that. --- then obviously the mundane human explanation WASN'T true in the first place or there would be only one correct answer. It wouldn't be able to change. So a witch drat well DID do it, exactly as she said she did, she was just obliged to leave a loophole whereby a human COULD have done it or it wouldn't work. By the exact same token, though, as soon as some human says "No but here's how you ACTUALLY did it" and is sufficiently convincing about it, then the "magic" collapses and, in exactly the same way, the human trick solution has NOW been true 'from the beginning,' even though it wasn't before. I feel like this applies doubly to any so-called illusion scene that doesn't leave behind any result more tangible than witness testimony. So yes, Kyrie fought stake sisters and rabbit soldiers with magic arrows, and George made EVA the Teenage Witch's heart explode, and Krauss superpunched Goat-kun... until someone comes up with an alternative explanation that everyone accepts as the truth, like Kyrie was held at gunpoint and threatened into calling the guesthouse to spin a false story about magical antagonists; and George either had a nasty argument with his mother over his engagement to Shannon or he just had to make peace within his own mind with breaking out from under his mother's thumb and becoming his own man, it's not entirely clear, but she does appear to have ended up dead somehow (or maybe not); and sometimes Ryukishi07 just likes to toss some comedy in with his postmodern literature. What I'm saying is that witches and magic are totally real, but that's no excuse for not denying them, because if you deny them hard enough you'll be retroactively correct.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 03:19
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:The Kyrie scenes are from the perspective of the witch. The Trial of Love scenes take place in the meta world. The Kanon coming back to life scene is literally from the perspective of multiple people everyone thinks are accomplices. Its almost like there is some method to distinguish truth from fiction. Like the author includes scenes to tell the reader something and omits things like Rudolf checking to see if his own son is alive to tell the reader something else. Maybe... just maybe you can find meaningful information from non-objective viewpoints? The thing is that all scenes not under an objective viewpoint can be relied on for truth about as much as Krauss punching out Goat-kun though the power of deathflags and cross counter. Yes, meaningful information can be gathered from non-objective viewpoints, but that information is not necessarily going to be accurate to what actually occurred. Confused Llama posted:Well, look, as much as the game claimed in this last update that That's an interesting take on the situation. "The winners write the history books", so to speak, except in this case it's a witch claiming that it was magic. If you can't prove it wasn't magic, it becomes magic. I feel the retcon explanation is also, to some degree, only usable on the game board where the story is being written and we can retroactively change things as a result.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 03:40
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:Maybe... just maybe you can find meaningful information from non-objective viewpoints? Since there's no such thing as a perfectly objective viewpoint, I should hope so. It's a lot harder when you're presented with outright fabrication or delusion, which has been the issue this entire story. Which is why everybody has different theories here, right? There are, for instance, lots of scenes that go against S=K; everybody needs to decide if they believe them. I'm hoping that at the end there are answers, but I'm increasingly suspicious that we just get a lot of fan theories and little about the author's intended solutions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 03:52
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:1) No one has actually made a theory that uses this information other than the S=K theory, so this is irrelevant at the moment. 1) Shannon and Kanon are two different people. Them being in two different rooms is not strange in the slightest. Kanon's social anxiety is such that he can't do his job if his big sister isn't there to support him. Thus if Shannon quits to marry George, Kanon will also quit and never see Jessica again. Happy? 2) Semantics 3) But at some point, if you wish for your theory to be true, you must be able to destroy my Kanon-Beatrice theory. Come, take your best shot. No really, poke my theories full of holes, tell me everywhere I've left an opening. That way I can adjust and adapt my theory to fill the holes, making is stronger. And if I can't, and find my theory beyond saving, I shall discard it and find another. This is how a human must do battle in order to defeat a witch. quote:By Knox's rules (#9) it is permitted for a character to voice their own interpretation. The scene is from Rudolf's perspective. If there's something untrue about it its because he is lying about the scene. The scene as read says he didn't even check to see if his own son was dead. Even if the result is the same, if it didn't happen that way, it means Rudolf is lying for some reason, and given the fact that Battler is alive, It is reasonable to conclude that Rudolf (and Krauss, simply because he could easily contradict him) is working with the culprit. You could probably come up with some other theory for this, but you have to actually, you know, come up with the theory, and not just say the possibility of a theory exists, because that's not any better then small bombs. Rudolf is a very emotional man, already distraught over the death of his wife. Having seen 5 corpses already, he has already assumed that whoever is in the last room will be dead, so when he sees that it is his son, he loses it. (Maybe Battler took some of the sedative from episode 4 to slow his breathing and make him appear dead.) With Rudolf literally crying over the 'body' of his son, Krauss can't very well go pushing him aside to check for a pulse or what-have-you, that would be incredibly crass. Nobody calls for the doctor because these are the 4 stupidest characters on the island. It just felt kinda pointless to make a blue truth that just says 'everything happened as it appeared' you know? As an aside, it is absolutely not the case that everyone agrees at all the servants are accomplices in the murders. For one, there is no way I believe Gohda is competent enough to pull off the lie. He's just a coward who completely breaks down anytime something scary happens and becomes incoherent and easy to manipulate. Genji certainly would make sense, and he for sure knows who Beatrice is, but I never encountered any tricks that couldn't be solved without him actively assisting the killer. At best he decides not to narc on a fellow servant after the sole surviving Ushiromiya treats him like poo poo and accuses him of murder despite his decades of loyal service. (Seriously, dude probably raised Rosa more than Kinzo did. I know I'd be pissed.) And Shannon is either in the same boat as Genji (even more so considering the killer is her little brother) or is between 1/3 and 1/5 of the killer, depending on which theory you subscribe to.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 04:09
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:3) But at some point, if you wish for your theory to be true, you must be able to destroy my Kanon-Beatrice theory. Clearly you can't have Shkanon without Kanon, so wouldn't they just be poking holes in their own theory? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 04:30
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:The thing is that all scenes not under an objective viewpoint can be relied on for truth about as much as Krauss punching out Goat-kun though the power of deathflags and cross counter. Yes, meaningful information can be gathered from non-objective viewpoints, but that information is not necessarily going to be accurate to what actually occurred. Its a good thing my argument is constructed such that the specifics of what actually happened don't matter. There are two sets of possibilities: 1) We take Rudolf's scene as is. He did not actually check if it his own son was alive, Nanjo wasn't there, and nobody checked the body ~~~for some reason~~~ 2) Rudolf's perspective is lying ~~~for some reason~~~. Funnily enough, both of these possibilities imply that Rudolf is an accomplice. (Or at least that is the simplest conclusion to make, you could argue ~~~some reason~~~ means something else, but you'd need an actual theory) An argument worthy of a witch, IMO. ZiegeDame posted:1) Shannon and Kanon are two different people. Them being in two different rooms is not strange in the slightest. Kanon's social anxiety is such that he can't do his job if his big sister isn't there to support him. Thus if Shannon quits to marry George, Kanon will also quit and never see Jessica again. Happy? quote:Rudolf is a very emotional man, already distraught over the death of his wife. Having seen 5 corpses already, he has already assumed that whoever is in the last room will be dead, so when he sees that it is his son, he loses it. (Maybe Battler took some of the sedative from episode 4 to slow his breathing and make him appear dead.) With Rudolf literally crying over the 'body' of his son, Krauss can't very well go pushing him aside to check for a pulse or what-have-you, that would be incredibly crass. Nobody calls for the doctor because these are the 4 stupidest characters on the island.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 04:54
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:(what does furniture mean in this theory? (If you want to see me lay out my standing theory of Beatrice, just click the little question mark at the bottom of this post.) quote:why would a child sedative mask the fact that battler is presumably still breathing. You can't pretend "a child sedative exists" is evidence for "battler can turn off his breathing and pulse". He has no wounds. You mean to tell me in this emotional dad story he never touched his son's body? Krauss wants to check but doesn't want to interrupt Rudolf, but forgets this as soon as they leave the room? Small bombs? Because that's what sedatives do. They slow your heart-rate and breathing. You don't just feel someone's pulse any time you touch any part of their body. And if it is weak enough, it can be difficult to find. I don't know what sort of health ed they had in 1950s Japan. Rudolf is out of his mind with grief. Krauss is an idiot. Neither is the Detective, so it is completely possible for them to mistakenly believe someone is dead when they are alive. And vice versa, I suppose. Alternately, since nothing in this scene is stated in red, Meta- Battler can apparently just ret-con it without creating a logic error. I guess? Point is there's a lot of perfectly consistent ways to read this scene, so it can't really be used as conclusive proof of anything.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 05:17
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:Its a good thing my argument is constructed such that the specifics of what actually happened don't matter. Okay, so then Krauss is an accomplice in episode 4, because his perspective is lying when he punched out Goat-kun. Is that what you're arguing? Similarly, Rudolf is an accomplice in episode 3 because his perspective definitely shows that he fought stake girls and rabbit soldiers. Or Natsuhi is an accomplice to the murders in episode 5 because she saw Beatrice when trying to set up Weekend at Kinzo's. Reminder that we've been constantly bombarded with the idea that perspectives aside from the detective's aren't necessarily true. Rudolf in no way has to be an accomplice if his perspective is lying, because his perspective was never stated to the human-side-piece. ZiegeDame posted:3) But at some point, if you wish for your theory to be true, you must be able to destroy my Kanon-Beatrice theory. Come, take your best shot. No really, poke my theories full of holes, tell me everywhere I've left an opening. That way I can adjust and adapt my theory to fill the holes, making is stronger. And if I can't, and find my theory beyond saving, I shall discard it and find another. This is how a human must do battle in order to defeat a witch. I do want to again refine my theory against yours, so remind me of your motive for Kanon again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 05:34
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:Because that's what sedatives do. They slow your heart-rate and breathing. You don't just feel someone's pulse any time you touch any part of their body. And if it is weak enough, it can be difficult to find. I don't know what sort of health ed they had in 1950s Japan. Rudolf is out of his mind with grief. Krauss is an idiot. Neither is the Detective, so it is completely possible for them to mistakenly believe someone is dead when they are alive. And vice versa, I suppose. Its possible for them to be mistaken, but a possibility existing isn't proof, or even convincing enough evidence to discard other theories, especially when you have to jump through this many hoops. Beatrice didn't counter small bombs, either. quote:Alternately, since nothing in this scene is stated in red, Meta- Battler can apparently just ret-con it without creating a logic error. I guess? Point is there's a lot of perfectly consistent ways to read this scene, so it can't really be used as conclusive proof of anything. Cyouni posted:Okay, so then Krauss is an accomplice in episode 4, because his perspective is lying when he punched out Goat-kun. Is that what you're arguing? 1) Can you actually rule that out? Do you have some counter-evidence that this is not true? 2) No. That scene is from the perspective of either the witch or Eva. 3) Natsuhi seeing Beatrice was explained in-text, in that episode, come on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 05:50
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:1) Can you actually rule that out? Do you have some counter-evidence that this is not true? 1) The number of people on the island has been declared at 17 or less. Therefore, there is no Goat-kun to punch out, nor Virgilia to watch, and therefore that's not possible. And it can't be another person, unless his perspective is lying. 2) So you're arguing that the witch can be in both the hallway, watching Kyrie, and the main area, watching Rudolf, at the same time. 3) Yes. Precisely my point. Under your argument, all of these would be validated as true things that they're seeing...unless they're accomplices. Lisonfire posted:There are two sets of possibilities: Their perspective lying does not in any way imply they're an accomplice. You can't argue that all the third-party perspectives are inviolably true (unless they're an accomplice), and then say all the ones that show magic don't count within that because ~~~reasons~~~. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Jun 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 06:02
|
|
|
Lisonfire, I'm done. If you honestly believe that "people in extreme emotional states tend to behave irrationally" is on the same level as "small bombs" then any further discussion is pointless.Cyouni posted:I do want to again refine my theory against yours, so remind me of your motive for Kanon again. I haven't got anything specific pinned down, as the specifics of Battler's sin can still only be guessed at, but the gist is Kanon was on Rokkenjima six years ago when Battler was Battler and said something encouraging to a lonely orphan in a lovely situation. Maybe some sort of promise that Kanon took way more seriously than Battler did. Possible specifics include Kanon being gay, trans, or a girl this whole time. Whatever the exact reason, Kanon falls in love with Battler, the kind of love that can turn lowly 'furniture' into a human. (This is where the original chick Beatrice is born.) And then Battler was never seen or heard from again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 06:13
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:I haven't got anything specific pinned down, as the specifics of Battler's sin can still only be guessed at, but the gist is Kanon was on Rokkenjima six years ago when Battler was Battler and said something encouraging to a lonely orphan in a lovely situation. Maybe some sort of promise that Kanon took way more seriously than Battler did. Possible specifics include Kanon being gay, trans, or a girl this whole time. Whatever the exact reason, Kanon falls in love with Battler, the kind of love that can turn lowly 'furniture' into a human. (This is where the original chick Beatrice is born.) And then Battler was never seen or heard from again. Hmm. When I was considering my theories, the motive always came off Shannon, so that's definitely a direction I hadn't considered. What clues were you thinking that placed Kanon on Rokkenjima six years ago?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 06:17
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:Lisonfire, I'm done. If you honestly believe that "people in extreme emotional states tend to behave irrationally" is on the same level as "small bombs" then any further discussion is pointless. I think "he (an krauss, and Nanjo, and everyone else) conveniently behaved irrationally in such a way that he didn't realize his son was alive despite him having no wounds and being breathing, such that he could later get out and presumably confuse Erika, and yet this was not planned at all and Just Happened" is ridiculous, yes. Sure, I can't actually prove with hard evidence either way, but don't you think, if that was the solution, that it would be in bad faith for a mystery story? Actually wait, I forgot, there is a Knox rule for this, the 6th. I think "we literally forgot to check the body despite having ample time to do so" qualifies as an accident. Cyoni, 1) I meant him being an accomplice. 2) Why do you think Kyrie was ever in the hall? Because the witch's own narration told you that? 3) Natsuhi's perspective is literally an anti-example. She is literally hiding nothing in her perspective, including the fact that she talks to imaginary friends. This isn't the same as Rudolf's perspective, who is practicing deception. I have to go to bed now, so good night thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 06:33
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:1) I meant him being an accomplice. 1) Do you have any proof he's an accomplice? Your argument is that any deception in there means that they're an accomplice. 2) I mean, that's still coming off Kyrie's perspective, but let's play that game. Then let's use Jessica from the same game as the example. Are you going to argue that she's an accomplice, or that she actually heard Eva BEATRICE? 3) Wrong. The only reason that nothing is hidden is that it's explicitly broken by Bernkastel multiple times. Bern is the one that uses the red to break Natsuhi's vision of Beatrice, and the one that uses the red to break Natsuhi's vision of Kinzo. I'll also point out re: Battler that Erika, despite presumably being better at this than Rudolf, couldn't tell Battler was alive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 06:39
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:Hmm. When I was considering my theories, the motive always came off Shannon, so that's definitely a direction I hadn't considered. What clues were you thinking that placed Kanon on Rokkenjima six years ago? Only that, as on of Kinzo's orphans, it would not be unreasonable for him to be on Kinzo's island. Especially during the family conference when they would want to have more servants on hand. Or maybe they'd just want to ship in a few extra non-servant kids to keep Jessica and Battler entertained while the adults do their adult stuff. (I literally just thought up that one while writing this post.) And that super awkward meeting between Kanon and Battler at the start of Episode 1 suggests that they have met before and Battler doesn't remember.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 06:56
|
|
|
Lisonfire posted:I think "he (an krauss, and Nanjo, and everyone else) conveniently behaved irrationally in such a way that he didn't realize his son was alive despite him having no wounds and being breathing, such that he could later get out and presumably confuse Erika, and yet this was not planned at all and Just Happened" is ridiculous, yes. Sure, I can't actually prove with hard evidence either way, but don't you think, if that was the solution, that it would be in bad faith for a mystery story? Battler wasn't treated any differently than any of the other five. Nanjo wasn't called for any of them. No inspection of any of the bodies was mentioned. No obviously fatal wound was described. Not even a single cause of death is given. If such behavior can only be explained by accomplices, shouldn't you be extending to all the deaths being fake, not just Battler's? I really doubt that I could fake being dead well enough to fool even an ordinary person, but it's a common conceit in detective fiction (particularly locked room stories). We can be virtually certain that there are fake deaths in some of the earlier episodes, and apparently nobody but Nanjo can detect them. Why is it just this episode that's so unacceptable? I agree that Krauss and Rudolf may very well be accomplices, but these episodes backload their information so heavily I've learned to go easy on the theories until we get all the information. Right now, unless you're going to say "because witches", a lot of what we've seen people do makes zero sense, which is the way all the episodes have worked. Personally, my guess is that Battler is bad at playing the witch side too, and is making an utterly muddled game board, where lots of things won't make sense, until he hopelessly tangles himself in a logic error. At some point we'll probably have the witches run through his errors and laugh at him. But that's just playing off our running theme of Battler being earnest but incompetent, and thinking the author had a reason to pick this episode to start talking about logic errors.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 07:24
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:Only that, as on of Kinzo's orphans, it would not be unreasonable for him to be on Kinzo's island. Especially during the family conference when they would want to have more servants on hand. Or maybe they'd just want to ship in a few extra non-servant kids to keep Jessica and Battler entertained while the adults do their adult stuff. (I literally just thought up that one while writing this post.) And that super awkward meeting between Kanon and Battler at the start of Episode 1 suggests that they have met before and Battler doesn't remember. Sorry for the double post, but I tried the same line of reasoning and rejected it. In that same meeting Jessica says Kanon only came to the island two years previously. (Two? Less than six, at least). Everybody agrees Shannon has been around for ten years, and she's able to quote Battler's promise from memory, so I don't think we've had an identity swap either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 07:29
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:Only that, as on of Kinzo's orphans, it would not be unreasonable for him to be on Kinzo's island. Especially during the family conference when they would want to have more servants on hand. Or maybe they'd just want to ship in a few extra non-servant kids to keep Jessica and Battler entertained while the adults do their adult stuff. Is there any evidence to back up these theories?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 16:08
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:Sorry for the double post, but I tried the same line of reasoning and rejected it. In that same meeting Jessica says Kanon only came to the island two years previously. (Two? Less than six, at least). Everybody agrees Shannon has been around for ten years, and she's able to quote Battler's promise from memory, so I don't think we've had an identity swap either. Just because Kanon started working less than 6 years ago doesn't mean he never set foot on the island. And that it is Jessica who says it just means she doesn't remember. And that Shannon can quote what Battler said to her merely serves to illustrate that Battler had a habit of making frivolous promises to girl to make himself look cool. George even confirms this episode that 12 year old Battler flirted with all the servant girls, not just Shannon. Which also proves that there were other servants around that age. And we can't say for sure that Kanon isn't one of them, especially if Kanon is a woman pretending to be a man. But that's mostly guesswork at this time. But how do you explain Kanon's behavior when meeting Battler? The narration tries to pass it off as him being shy and clumsy, but that is contradicted by pretty much everything we see about Kanon after. Kanon is polite and professional when dealing with guests, and is pretty well coordinated if magic battle scenes are any indication. I don't recall him ever dropping anything after that scene either. Meeting Battler clearly threw him off for some reason. witchcore ricepunk posted:Is there any evidence to back up these theories?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 16:16
|
|
|
 October 5th, 1986, 2:34 PM  BGM: The Girl's Witch Hunt She had gotten Krauss and the others to take the master keys from the servants, and at that time, she had used a little sleight of hand to pilfer one of them...  "Well THEN. Where shall we go FIRST?" "Why ask? Let's go and hear Battler-san's answer."Grinning, Erika cut across the entrance hall and passed in front of the dining hall... deeper... deeper. She headed for the guest room Battler had lain dead in. Battler could put off deciding whether the seals would remain whole or not until the moment right before Erika witnessed them. However, once she did witness them, the Game Master would have to show what had happened to them. In the witch's game they were in now, the simple act of going to check the seals around the guest room was an attack.   "Yeah. Or as you would say it, come, step forward." "<Good>! Then show us your response. Well now, are the seals broken or are they not? Has the closed room been preserved, or hasn't it...?!"The piece Erika held high in the air... was the white queen, which represented herself. Her target... was Battler's position. She cut in...  Then, she closely examined the seals she had placed retroactively.  "...Heh... heheheheheheheheehehehe heheehheh! Are you sure...? Are you sure, Battler-saaaaaaan...?!"  "...Yeah, I can't back down here. After all, even if I'm sealed in here, there are ways of placing the letter." "But now, Erika will probably enter the guest room. And then, she will observe your corpse. What are you going to do?! If the corpse is there, then there's no problem. The letter's prediction missed, but it's not as though there's a penalty for that. But still... you intend to fight head on...!" "There are times... when a man is challenged head on... that he has to respond, no matter who the opponent. I must not... pull back here. I'll take that challenge. I can search for a way out all I want to later...! I managed to do that with Kinzo's study last time...! Don't worry... I can do it...! I can do it!! Come on, Erikaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!" "<Good>!!" "I'm breaking the seals!! Rip, tear!! Heh, hehihihihihihihihihihihi!!!"Erika destroyed the duct tape seal on the door in ecstasy... It looked as though the intellectual rapist had finally laid her true nature bare. "...Okay, I'm opening it... Please watch... Here's Battler-san's... naked scenario...!! Hehihihahahaahaaaaaaaaahhh!!!"Like a ruffian pushing down a weak girl, Erika mercilessly and greedily threw the door open. Then, finally, the inside of Battler's guest room was observed by Erika. Battler had to show it. Was there a corpse, or wasn't there?  "<Come ooooooooooooooon>, Battleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer!!" "Aaaaaaaaaaahhh, here's my respooooooonse!!"Battler grabbed a black piece from the board and raised it high. Aah, that piece... Beato had no memories of the time she had been an expert at this game. And yet, for some reason, she realized that this was a move that could not be taken back. Once this piece was moved, they couldn't move it back...!! Uwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!! ...The guest room was covered by a silent darkness. It was pitch black, and nothing could be seen. However, there was a light switch just off to the side of the entrance. If she flicked that, the room would be lit up, and she would see whether or not there was a corpse on the bed.  "...Turning them ON." BGM: Play  "Let me hear it." "I think you already know, but this time around, I am not after a classic sort of victory. My enemy is not the lowly culprit killing the pieces, but my opponent, you yourself." "...I know. So, you're after a logic error." "Heheh..." "...I'm seriously regretting it now. You were acting so miserable that I fell for it completely, and I gave you a ridiculous privilege." "...It was your PRIDE. It will cost you DEARLY." "...drat... it..." "...So, what is your proposal?"With a firm voice, Beato urged her to continue. Until just a second ago, she had remained behind Battler's back, a bit flustered. However, she was steady now. She saw that Battler had let his emotions take control and had been lured into making a bad move... and realized that it was time for her to stay cool and support him. Erika's proposal couldn't be anything good. And on top of that, Erika was sly. She probably wouldn't make a proposal that would be easily rejected... "I will now turn on the light. The top of the bed will be lit up, and it will be decided whether or not Battler has disappeared as the letter predicted." "...If he's there, great. There's nothing strange at all. The letter's prediction would just be wrong. Of course, the argument would probably switch over to 'then who put the letter there?', but for the time being, the location of the fight would move outside this closed room." "...And... if he's missing...?"Beato already knew. She knew the move that Battler had made a second ago. Battler had... already disappeared from this room... Therefore, they would need to prepare a disappearing trick other than 'he was actually alive and left through the door'. The situation is simple. First, this room is a closed room. Also, Battler's life or death status has not been confirmed. In other words, there is no problem if he is alive. They had to make Erika think that Battler had vanished from this situation. He just had to escape from the room, or if that wasn't possible, he just had to hide somehow and wait for her to leave, making her think that he had disappeared.  "...Fighting to keep that from happening is our job. What is this proposal of yours?" "An endgame fought over a logic error should be a bit more precise. Once again, we will fight with the red and blue truths, but we need a referee on the same level as the Game Master to observe and see that he doesn't create any logic errors with the red truth." "...Th, that seems reasonable." "There's nothing special about this. Back when the old you was the Game Master, you were under the observation of your guardian, Lady Lambdadelta. In that way, it was judged that all red truths were effective." "...So, you're telling us to show Lambdadelta our cards?" "C, can you say that in red...?" "Yep. I swear that I am impartial in my judgments. I was very impartial in the last game, wasn't I?" "...Especially for interesting judgments where she doesn't care which way it falls. Accept it, Battler. Erika is going to corner you." "Understand? She will duel with you and kill you in this room. If you're a man, accept the duel...!" "S, sure, fine. We won't get anywhere if you suspect every single impossible murder I show of being a logic error. It's true that we need an observer to guarantee that the game is legitimate." "Then I'll come around to your side. Let me take a look at your hand. Hmmmmm...?"Lambdadelta understood what Battler had up his sleeve. And she confirmed that Erika's first move had indeed gone straight through his heart. Just as Erika had guessed, Battler was alive, had slipped out of the room after Erika had examined his 'corpse', placed the letter by the guesthouse, and hid himself somewhere. When the duct tape seals had been retroactively placed on the guest room, he would have had to show that they had been torn. However, if he had done that, it would be the same as admitting that he had been seen through and that he had lost. Unwilling to admit that, Battler had claimed that the seals had been maintained, with false courage, and was now rushing to revise his logic. True, he could still escape for a few more moves. However, Erika was planning to corner and kill him here...   "Cards...? Does this game of chess look like a card game to you?" "...To me, it looks as though you all are playing a game of poker. So, by moving to this side and looking at the cards you hold, I understand everything." "That's an awful move. It's a complete waste... And Erika has already seen right through you." "...Heheh... What would you do?" "I'm the referee. I can't give you advice. But let me tell you my impressions." "No, that's okay." "...It's chilling. You're trying to use this useless move... this baseless bluff... to make Erika back down... She's not going to back down, that girl. After all, you're the one who should be throwing his chips in and folding now..." "...Thanks for the advice. Battler-san. I agree with her. Let's back down from the fight in this room. We don't have any winning cards..." "Are you hoping for a card change to turn this into something more useful...? I thought you were playing chess... In the world of chess, if you rely on luck... you die..." If you enter into the fight... without any trick in mind... you get killed...! Now was the time to back down. When Erika flipped the switch, he just had to be sleeping there on that bed. That's all... he needs!  "...Lambda. I don't know what you're talking about, but you're chatting too much. A referee needs to be impartial." "True... Then, good luck, Battler. I'm hoping for a precise, chess-like battle. You aren't playing poker, are you...?" "Are you ready, Battler-san?" "Yeah, I am... Turn the lights on whenever you want." "For the rest of the fight in this room, the progression of time will be stopped. This way, all the moves for both players will be made at the same time, and the first move made will be treated no differently than the last move. That might be hard to understand, but that's a rule to protect you... and your logic." "...From here on out, you can use all the twisted logic you want to rebuild the trick in this room. In other words, it's possible that you might think of a good idea partway through the fight. Normally, it's unfair to revise your plot partway through. In order for that to be acceptable, you need a world stopped in time, where everything happens at once, and where logic that you think of afterwards can counter your opponent's earlier moves." "Of course, Erika can take advantage of this rule as well. If you revise your trick to be a new one, she can deal with that in a different way." "...This is pretty complicated..." "It's simple. It's like a corrupt politician's war of twisted logic. You lie shamelessly. When evidence is shown revealing that lie, you retract those previous lies and say that you just remembered it wrong, then change to a new lie that doesn't have any contradictions. The fight goes between a lie, then evidence exposing it, then another lie, like a fight between two snakes spinning around trying to eat each other's tails." "<Good>! Just think of it as a world in which you're allowed to use twisted logic based off of your opponents moves as often as you want. I used that myself when sealing this room. So, I thought it was only fair to let you do the same." "...You have no shame, do you...?" "OK!! Then let's have both sides begin! Will Erika take the first move? Will she start by checking the bed... by checking to see what he's bet?!" "Yeah, let's start by checking to see if Battler's on the bed. Erika, begin." "Leave it to me, my master! <Light>...<on>!"With a *click*, the sound of the light switch rang out... and the bulb turned on, lighting up the room. ...On Battler's... bed... was... "...Dlanor. Confirm it with the red." "YES. Ushiromiya Battler-" BGM: Scar Sound "<Good>. I'm glad you didn't run away from the fight. I'm impressed." "...It's a high-stakes battle, so it'll cost you a lot if you're the one who loses. Are you prepared...?" "*giggle* No one would raise the stakes unless they felt confident in their advantage." "...Dlanor. Keep a record." "As you WISH."At Dlanor's nod, Cornelia, who was hanging back, started taking a record. She wrote down that Battler's corpse, which should have been on the bed, was not, and also that Battler hadn't backed down from this closed room game...  "...I present the possibility that Ushiromiya Battler is alive and hiding somewhere in this room. I proclaim this with the blue truth." "Ineffective. If you want to use the blue truth, give me a specific location." "...Pfft. In the last game, Beato did that in Kinzo's study, and Dlanor made Swiss cheese of her, right...? I guess this is revenge...*giggle*..." "Before I start searching, I have one blue truth I can use without a search. There is a possibility of a hidden door X that is impossible to discover. He's hidden behind that, so it is impossible for me to find him." "Knox's 3rd. It is forbidden for hidden passages to exist. That right?" "...No hidden places that are impossible for Erika-san to find exist inside the guest room." "Knox's 3rd... EFFECTIVE." "<Good>. Then let's get started with the search."...Erika slowly began to walk around the room... Until the endgame had started, Erika had been energetic, jumping about impatiently like a hungry dog. However, now that it had actually begun... This was a stifling battle of wits... where each breath made her tense... Even the quiet sound of the rain... was distracting... "Now that I've searched the room, what is its layout?" "...The guest room is divided into two rooms, the bedroom and the BATHROOM. Lady Erika has currently searched the entire bedroom SECTION. There is only one EXCEPTION." "...I'll leave that one place be for the time being. So, were there any irregularities discovered in the bedroom?" "...What's this 'except for one location' business? Say it without being annoying." "There's a reason a face-down card remains face down. I'll turn it over if it's needed, so look forward to it. *giggle*."After thoroughly checking the bedroom, Erika headed for the bathroom door. Since he wasn't in the bedroom, it was natural to think that he was in the bathroom. And, since the guest room was made up of two rooms, if Battler wasn't in the bathroom either... it would mean that he had managed to vanish from the closed room. Except for that single location which Erika had intentionally left unchecked... "I'm checking the bathroom." "...Lady Erika. The sound of water can be heard from INSIDE. Also, there is a faint HEAT." "Ooh...? Don't tell me he's taking a shower... Is it locked or anything...?" "No, it isn't locked. Go ahead and open it." "...Then, if you'll allow me."Slowly... Erika put her hand on the doorknob on the bathroom door... She tried to push it open, but felt a strange resistance. Of course, it wasn't the resistance of the lock. It felt... as though it had an unnatural load on it... Out from the slightly open crack poured the hot air from the shower. However, it was unlocked, so there probably wasn't anyone taking a shower. After letting a dumbfounded expression rise to her face, Erika slammed into the door with her whole body, knocking it open...  BGM: None As soon as she opened the door, a hot blast poured out on her. Erika froze, unable to understand what had happened. After falling backwards on her butt, she realized that boiling hot shower water was spewing out at her, and hard.  "Wh... what is this...? What a crazy... prank..."Cursing, Erika wrapped the blanket from the bed around herself, and tried to enter the bathroom once more. This time, she was able to figure out what was going on. It was... an elaborate prank. A wire fixed the shower nozzle in place so that it pointed at the entrance. The pressure and heat were turned up to the max, so that anyone who went through the door would be met with a wave of hot water. The pressure was very strong, which probably accounted for the weight she had felt when trying to push the door open. She tried to make the nozzle point in another direction, but not only was it fixed in place by the wire, it was also fixed in a place high enough that Erika couldn't reach it with her height. She tried to turn off the pressure, but that was also held in place by wires. She couldn't manage anything with her bare hands. She would have to get a tool that could cut the wires. However, when she looked into the bathtub, which was filled with very hot water, she saw a bundle of wires and some nippers that had been used to cut them lying at the bottom. If she used that, she could turn off the pressure...  The blanket she had used to protect herself from the shower was getting more and more drenched with boiling hot water. At this rate, she'd get burns even through the blanket. She needed to turn the water off quickly...! Right next to the bathtub, she saw a hanging long-handled body brush. Perfect...! Erika used that to skillfully scrape the nippers up off the bottom of the tub. Fortunately, it was a shallow western-style bathtub. If it had been a deep Japanese one, it would probably have burned her badly. Making sure not to touch the hot metal parts, she carefully took the nippers... and cut the wires around the faucet... Take that, and that...! "*pant*, *pant*! *pant*...*pant*!!"She finally closed the faucet and the heat from the hot water storm died down. For a while, Erika was forced to cool her almost burnt arms under running water...   "Would you like a bath? I can wash your face with this brush." "Allow me to PASS." "Oh. That's a SHAME."Erika had finally regained enough of her composure to be abusive... She closed the faucet completely, and silence returned to the bathroom. After that, all that remained was Erika's heavy breathing. She turned on the fan to get rid of the hot steam. She had to leave the bathroom until that was finished. It was pleasant, like stepping into an air-conditioned room on a hot summer's day. "...Now that was a ridiculous trap. However, that wasn't here at the time I examined Battler's 'corpse'. Therefore, the appearance of this trap proves that Ushiromiya Battler was alive. Well, I never thought he was dead anyway." "...So he decided to openly show a card that had already been EXPOSED." "Let's check the inside of the bathroom. Was Battler seen?" BGM: At Death's Door  "<Good>. Now we've confirmed that, except for one location, Battler does not exist in any place inside the guest room." "...Give that a rest. Just where is this one exception?" "A coffin. Ushiromiya Battler's coffin, that is." "...Ashes to ashes, the dead to their COFFINS." "...You'll try to trap me in this room, right? Okay. Let's have it."The silence that was complete except for the rain... was suddenly filled with the smell of gunpowder. Though it was extremely quiet, the room was filled with tension... as though you'd be sliced in half if you relaxed for an instant. A cloud of gold butterflies gathered on the room's round table... and turned into a witch's chess board. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
The shower trick might've hosed him over, but it's likely in his eyes worth to gently caress with her.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 16:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 19:48 |
|
|
PUNK'D
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2017 16:58
|
|