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BarbarianElephant posted:Has anyone as rich and powerful as Trump ever gone to prison in the USA? Enron, S&L, the one with McCain, hell I think Watergate sent dozens to prison.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:33
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Martha Stewart?
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Jun 17, 2017 19:34
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BarbarianElephant posted:Has anyone as rich and powerful as Trump ever gone to prison in the USA? Martha Stewart and Bernie Madoff, off the top of my head e: Allen Stanford also ReidRansom fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 19:36
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Hollismason posted:Lol, if you think that Trump wouldn't immediately ordered the military to stop a impeachment. The military will not support a president against the branch that writes its budget.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:38
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Boris Galerkin posted:I don't know about you but if a draft were to be declared tomorrow and I knew that I could get out of it by making GBS threads my pants then I would poo poo my pants without even having to think about it. gently caress you if you think I'm a coward because I literally don't wanna be sent off to my death. I wouldn't blame you for it. I'd probably offer to carpool to Canada with you. But I would call you a hypocrite if decades later you ran for president and said how much you loved this country and it's military and some fine young man was sent to his death in your place because your daddy paid off doctors. My father is a Vietnam vet, but he volunteered for it.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:39
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Clancychat, but for inane whatifs and conspiracies!
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Jun 17, 2017 19:39
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Evil Fluffy posted:Even if Trump goes down (still seems unlikely) the odds of Pence going down with him is near zero. There needs to be some serious evidence of him colluding with Russia or assisting in the obstruction and I suspect that Pence has kept his distance on all that stuff as much as possible. I can't imagine he's involved in the obstruction stuff at all and unless Flynn turns on him and has evidence that Pence always knew about his activities, Pence will be completely untouched (though he'll probably get buried in 2020 if he tries to run for reelection). It seems so fruitless to guess about any of this, because everything going on is so unprecedented. The last time a president had to resign for corruption, it didn't harm his vice-president, but that vice-president had been appointed because he had been an outsider. So Nixon and Ford aren't really a good comparison. Before that, we have to go back to something like how Calvin Coolidge dealt with the Teapot Dome, which is both a century ago, and not really relevant. (I just quickly looked it up: Coolidge ascended when Harding died, no one at the time knew about the corruption in Harding's administration, and Coolidge wasn't personally implicated. So saying there are "near zero" chances of Pence going down seems to be functioning on little data. We don't know what Trump did, what Pence knew, and how the public will respond to either.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:47
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Paracaidas posted:The Democrats, with enough power to push through a Trump impeachment (or, I guess, with enough evidence and the administration being poisonous enough that the GOP goes along with it), will not also knock Pence off, because.... reasons? Especially if it's a Democratic House, because you bet your rear end they'd want the speaker* to take over. Sorry, but this is actually insane. If Trump is impeached, Pence will take his place and he will appoint a new VP (with approval by Congress) to fill his old position. This will be another Republican. If Pence is implicated along with Trump in whatever impeachment scenario it is that we're discussing here then Pence will most likely resign shortly thereafter. Democrats aren't going to remove a Republican from office in order to install their own unelected president because that turns a clear win for the Democratic Party into something that the GOP will rightly characterize as a coup. They also just don't have the ability to do it since it's literally impossible for Democrats to have that level of control in the Senate after 2018. Autism Sneaks posted:You are weird. Nail that fucker to a cross erected off Pennsylvania Avenue and let him bake there until the sun bleaches the orange from his skin I have a feeling a lot of you are going to be exceptionally disappointed in how this all plays out, and that's assuming the best possible course of events here.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:49
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Well when many of us will only be sated by Oompa Loompa blood, where the best we'll probably get is this century's (or, the century being young, this generation's) Frost/Nixon with Trump shouting something like "When the president does it, it's not illegal'" but not nearly as profound and a lot dumber... yeah
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Jun 17, 2017 19:53
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OhDearGodNo posted:Enron, S&L, the one with McCain, hell I think Watergate sent dozens to prison. Yeah stealing other rich people's money will do it
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Jun 17, 2017 19:55
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BarbarianElephant posted:This is becoming a huge problem, because internet job ads produce an avalanche of applicants, so HR find it easier to winnow down results by easy criteria like "criminal record y/n." Algorithms that scan resumes for keywords and reject them if they lack those are also in heavy use.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:55
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Paradoxish posted:
Here is a question: in the first week of Trump's presidency, if someone had told you in five months time: 1. Michael Flynn would have been dismissed, be under criminal investigation, and have offered testimony in exchange for immunity 2. That Donald Trump would have fired Comey, giving the reason publicly that he was tired of being investigated 3. That Robert Mueller was appointed as a special prosecutor, and was investigating Trump, as well as his campaign Would you have had the same response? I mean, I get what you are responding to, but it has taken five months for us to get to the point where the President of the United States is being investigated for the felony of obstructing justice in an espionage case. Any predictions about the next five months seem to be premature.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:57
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Mike pence almost certainly knew Flynn was dirty and said nothing. It will be very difficult for him to survive this. It's also very unlikely ryan didn't know what was going on. The constitution was not designed to withstand this kind of scandal, tbqh.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:58
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Autism Sneaks posted:Well when many of us will only be sated by Oompa Loompa blood, where the best we'll probably get is this century's (or, the century being young, this generation's) Frost/Nixon with Trump shouting something like "When the president does it, it's not illegal'" but not nearly as profound and a lot dumber... yeah "When the president does it, it's terrific"
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Jun 17, 2017 20:02
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glowing-fish posted:Would you have had the same response? I mean, I get what you are responding to, but it has taken five months for us to get to the point where the President of the United States is being investigated for the felony of obstructing justice in an espionage case. Any predictions about the next five months seem to be premature. I'm honestly not trying to make any predictions here, I'm just talking about how the process actually works. Democrats will probably have the ability to draft and pass whatever ridiculous articles of impeachment that they want after 2018, but they won't have the ability to actually convict. That means Republicans can effectively stonewall anything that they don't like, which is exactly what will happen if Democrats try to force a double impeachment without providing Pence with time to appoint a replacement. FizFashizzle posted:It's also very unlikely ryan didn't know what was going on. So, even if this is true, the point I was making is that you don't just burn down the line of succession like this. If Trump is impeached, then Pence is going to appoint a new VP and it won't be Paul Ryan. If this is after 2018 and Democrats control the House then there's the potential to force a compromise candidate, but that's about the best we can hope for. We aren't talking about the president and vice president being killed or incapacitated in a single event here, so it's not a matter of just taking the next person in the line after the VP. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 20:06
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Paradoxish posted:I'm honestly not trying to make any predictions here, I'm just talking about how the process actually works. Democrats will probably have the ability to draft and pass whatever ridiculous articles of impeachment that they want after 2018, but they won't have the ability to actually convict. That means Republicans can effectively stonewall anything that they don't like, which is exactly what will happen if Democrats try to force a double impeachment without providing Pence with time to appoint a replacement. "how the process actually works" Based on what? Your sample size of impeachments or resignations to avoid impeachment is currently three. (Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton). In one of those cases, Richard Nixon, it is generally agreed that his party would have voted against him. Bill Clinton's case was more partisan, but most objective observers agree that it was a partisan accusation in the first place, and that it involved a personal matter. I don't know enough about the Andrew Johnson case to comment. It does depend on the magnitude of what Trump did (if anything at all). If Trump was just trying to protect his son-in-law from having his finances scrutinized, it might still be treated as a partisan matter. But if there is actual evidence that Trump betrayed the United States' interests by actively colluding, that is an unprecedented situation, and saying it will play out like Bill Clinton's extramarital affairs seems premature.
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Jun 17, 2017 20:16
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FizFashizzle posted:Mike pence almost certainly knew Flynn was dirty and said nothing. Yep. This is most likely why he hired his own lawyer. I mean has a Vice President ever done that? AFAIK it's unprecedented.
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Jun 17, 2017 20:17
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methinks he doth project too much
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Jun 17, 2017 20:24
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glowing-fish posted:"how the process actually works" Based on the Constitution. Here's what the 25th Amendment has to say: quote:Section 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President. I think (although I'm not positive and I could be wrong) that a double impeachment that removes the president and vice president at once is possible, but this is literally a political coup that you're talking about here. There's also no reason for Republicans to allow it, since if they intend to impeach Mike Pence they could easily demand that it be done separately, after he has had time to appoint a replacement. Remember that the only punitive action that impeachment provides is removal from office, so Pence agreeing to appoint a new VP and then resign is as good as impeaching him from a practical standpoint.
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Jun 17, 2017 20:26
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Nothing bad will ever happen to Tromp. You'll be sitting though his presidential retrospective interview on the Today Show inside ten years.
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Jun 17, 2017 20:28
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Huzanko posted:Nothing bad will ever happen to Tromp. You'll be sitting though his presidential retrospective interview on the Today Show inside ten years. God empower trump is invincible! Nothing can stop powerful daddy! :Pepe nazi flag:
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Jun 17, 2017 20:33
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Slow news day
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Jun 17, 2017 20:34
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Covok posted:Slow news day https://twitter.com/ShogrenE/status/876067002431025152 Here's a fresh thing to be mad about for ya
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Jun 17, 2017 20:40
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Hollismason posted:Lol, if you think that Trump wouldn't immediately ordered the military to stop a impeachment. Buca di Bepis posted:This is loving stupid
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Jun 17, 2017 20:43
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Covok posted:Slow news day Have some examination of the old news. Why Trump Attacked His Own Deputy Attorney General quote:
Rincewinds fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 20:47
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Tatsuta Age posted:https://twitter.com/ShogrenE/status/876067002431025152 This is a 'moderate' Republican and someone people thought Obama might pick for Scalia's seat, isn't it?
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Jun 17, 2017 20:47
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BarbarianElephant posted:Has anyone as rich and powerful as Trump ever gone to prison in the USA? Bernie Madoff?
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Jun 17, 2017 20:48
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BarbarianElephant posted:Has anyone as rich and powerful as Trump ever gone to prison in the USA? Al Capone?
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Jun 17, 2017 20:51
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HappyHippo posted:Bernie Madoff? He ran out of money and thus money.  Edit: Huh, he is still alive. I thought he had died. Rincewinds fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 20:52
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Paradoxish posted:Based on the Constitution. Here's what the 25th Amendment has to say: And do you think this even if there is evidence that Pence directly agreed with Russian spies to ease sanctions in return for election interference? Or, in lesser terms, if he knew about it after the fact but didn't report it? Would it make sense to allow someone who had done that to become President? I agree that if Pence has just been incompetent and unaware, then that isn't really impeachable, but based on what we already know, there is a good chance that he might have been cooperating or covering up at some point, in which case a dual impeachment does seem likely.
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Jun 17, 2017 20:57
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Raylen posted:They love dealing in hypotheticals like this. "Well, if everyone was personally accountable then we wouldn't need laws! I think pissbaby donald is the ultimate refutation of that view. "We need weaker laws! People will just do what's right because they face punishment otherwise!" Doesn't really work when cheeto benito is making GBS threads up what little assumption of good faith remained in DC.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:05
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Tatsuta Age posted:https://twitter.com/ShogrenE/status/876067002431025152 Lmao how hard could it be to meet 40% renewables in Nevada, its entirely desert.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:05
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Tayter Swift posted:Lmao how hard could it be to meet 40% renewables in Nevada, its entirely desert. Also they get a large portion of their power from the Hoover Dam already
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Jun 17, 2017 21:10
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Lote posted:Also they get a large portion of their power from the Hoover Dam already Good thing climate change is making Hoover dam less reliable as a source of power.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:11
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glowing-fish posted:And do you think this even if there is evidence that Pence directly agreed with Russian spies to ease sanctions in return for election interference? Or, in lesser terms, if he knew about it after the fact but didn't report it? Would it make sense to allow someone who had done that to become President? Man, I don't really know how to be more clear in what I'm saying. The point I'm making isn't that Pence won't or can't be impeached, it's that I don't think the GOP will allow an impeachment that puts a Democrat into the White House. The scenario I'm laying out here is one where Pence only needs to hold office for exactly as long as it will take for him to appoint a VP and have that VP confirmed by the House and Senate. There's absolutely no reason for Republicans not to demand that, even in a hypothetical scenario where they're doing the right thing and cleaning house. Impeachment is not a criminal trial. It doesn't carry any penalty beyond removal from office, so Mike Pence being sworn in for a day and then resigning is not meaningfully different from him simply being impeached alongside of Trump. If we're going to go off into Clancychat land and talk about Pence refusing to step down, then there's nothing stopping Congress from simply impeaching him for that.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:11
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Actually the real gently caress-you move by Pelosi is if Trump lasts past 2018 and is removed once the Democrats retake the House; Pelosi refuses to confirm Pence's VP pick, meaning if he also goes down Pelosi (or whichever Democrat is Speaker five minutes later) becomes President. Ladies and Gentlemen, the new Speaker, Joseph Robinette Biden Junior. https://www.instagram.com/p/BVU2TyZAhvO/
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Jun 17, 2017 21:13
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Paradoxish posted:Man, I don't really know how to be more clear in what I'm saying. I can't believe anyone could possibly imagine we'll have a Democratic president before 2021, or a Republican president after 2021.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:13
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Hellblazer187 posted:I can't believe anyone could possibly imagine we'll have a Democratic president before 2021, or a Republican president after 2021. Look one post above yours, or at the post that I was originally responding to on the last page. People really want there to be one weird trick that Democrats can pull, but as long as we have less than 67 seats in the Senate there's really no impeachment scenario that goes down with the consent of at least some Republicans. Actually, I don't even know what happens if the House or Senate refuses to confirm a VP pick in the case of that position being vacant.
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Jun 17, 2017 21:17
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Jun 17, 2017 21:22
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Trump administration pushing to weaken Russia sanctions bill: report http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/338266-trump-administration-pushing-to-weaken-russia-sanctions-bill-report quote:President Trump’s White House is expected to push House Republicans to change the Senate’s Russia sanctions bill to make it more friendly to Russia, according to a new report. But gently caress Cuba lol
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