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https://medium.freecodecamp.com/welcome-to-the-software-interview-ee673bc5ef6
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Jun 18, 2017 17:47
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I don't think I've ever been to a programming job interview where I didn't have to do programming in some form.
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Jun 18, 2017 18:13
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"web engineer"
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Jun 18, 2017 18:14
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qhat posted:I don't think I've ever been to a programming job interview where I didn't have to do programming in some form. I've been in a few. Granted those didn't seem great places to work. Said programming comes in a lot of shapes and sizes though. carry on then posted:"web engineer" I try not to judge titles given how many silly Developer titles I've seen / been given. I just turned down a "Programs Analyst III" offer. Iverron fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 18, 2017 |
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Jun 18, 2017 18:30
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if they don't ask you coding questions during the interview gtfo because that means they didn't ask your colleagues either and probably hired a lot of smooth talking worthless people
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Jun 18, 2017 18:38
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qhat posted:I don't think I've ever been to a programming job interview where I didn't have to do programming in some form. I've had one interview like this. I even asked them near the end if that was typical for their interviews, which it was, but they assured me that it has worked well for them. i took the job anyway, because I'm a moron, and they offered figgies. that place was a clown show in almost every regard
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Jun 18, 2017 18:39
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Honestly imo from my experience both as interviewer and interviewee, programming interviews in general are pretty fair and don't assume obscure knowledge that you wouldn't need to know in the job. Often people who complain they get asked irrelevant questions are, miraculously, the same people who are failing programming interviews. I think asking things like implement quicksort and poo poo like that is a bit silly, instead get them to write a parser for something; but not knowing what inheritance is, or not knowing the difference between recursion and iteration, is utterly unacceptable. Yes, a lot of people fail on those last two questions.
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Jun 18, 2017 18:41
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The Management posted:if they don't ask you coding questions during the interview gtfo because that means they didn't ask your colleagues either and probably hired a lot of smooth talking worthless people On the other hand there are positions for which you would be the top technical personnel and such questions may end up comical: 6.5 figgy interviews for one.
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Jun 18, 2017 18:48
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Like those people who complain that driving tests are rigged after failing their 5th test in a row because they went up on the curb when turning a corner, lol.
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Jun 18, 2017 18:53
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my github and my resume (and references) all illustrate i know how to write the computer codez p decently, like you can just go look at real actual code i've written is it actually valuable for me to implement some code for some toy problem? not really i mean, I will, but it's basically a waste of everyones time
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Jun 18, 2017 18:59
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:my github and my resume (and references) all illustrate i know how to write the computer codez p decently, like you can just go look at real actual code i've written 1) Nobody has time to critically analyse your github 2) Resume and references, especially references, are always misleading It isn't rocket science why these two things aren't enough.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:01
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:my github and my resume (and references) all illustrate i know how to write the computer codez p decently, like you can just go look at real actual code i've written but what if you cheated also https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/818476923882008576 I did find that interviewers cared far more about a couple of 20-25 minute blog posts than they did about anything on GitHub.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:15
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qhat posted:1) Nobody has time to critically analyse your github a resume and screen(s) should pare down the pool to a small enough number of candidates such that you have time to analyze their GitHub / whatever I know that that almost never happens in practice (see brutal indifference tweet), but it should
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Jun 18, 2017 19:22
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:my github and my resume (and references) all illustrate i know how to write the computer codez p decently, like you can just go look at real actual code i've written you should be able to trivially solve those problems. if you can't, you are a bad coder. the code you write is a basis for a conversation about your problem solving skills.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:23
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Iverron posted:a resume and screen(s) should pare down the pool to a small enough number of candidates such that you have time to analyze their GitHub / whatever Sure I'll look at it if I'm interviewing a candidate in person and I want to find something interesting to probe them on, but not for more than 15minutes or so before the interview. And to be clear, I'll be looking for actually impressive contributions, not dogshit sideprojects that were abandoned after a week of development, which is 90% of githubs that get submitted.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:29
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I've seen people get through a whiteboard gauntlet who can't write code and seen people fail who singlehandedly implemented software lots of people use everyday. The recommendation from people giving the interviews is to take two weeks off work to practice doing interviews and study things you do not and possibly never will use day to day. If the interviews were testing something directly applicable to day to day work, this would not be necessary. The worst part is half the time you get someone who wasn't trained how to interview looking for their preferred solution to their pet problem. Any deviation from the code they wrote for it ends up burning 10 minutes because they stop you from continuing to tell you you're wrong until you ignore them and finish your implementation. Upon which they begrudgingly admit that you were right. Tech interviewing is a cargo cult and tech interviewers are garbage.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:31
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qhat posted:Sure I'll look at it if I'm interviewing a candidate in person and I want to find something interesting to probe them on, but not for more than 15minutes or so before the interview. And to be clear, I'll be looking for actually impressive contributions, not dogshit sideprojects that were abandoned after a week of development, which is 90% of githubs that get submitted. how many hours per week should developers devote to side projects?
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Jun 18, 2017 19:32
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carry on then posted:how many hours per week should developers devote to side projects? as many as you want, nobody cares anyway
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Jun 18, 2017 19:33
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of loving course you should be able to do whiteboard coding, but that doesn't change the fact it's a massive waste of everyones time that doesnt tell you a single thing about what someone is like at their actual job other than 'probably not a complete fraud' if you're really patting yourself on the back because your pop quiz hotshot coding interview can filter out utterly incompetent frauds, lol well good luck with that in summary: leper khan posted:Tech interviewing is a cargo cult and tech interviewers are garbage.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:35
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Doing coding in person in controlled examined conditions is a waste of time, but phoning up someone's cherry picked references isn't. Gotcha.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:39
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:my github and my resume (and references) all illustrate i know how to write the computer codez p decently, like you can just go look at real actual code i've written I also did a coding screen for someone who listed absolutely no languages on their resume. And hey hey, they couldn't code at all. No idea how they got past the recruiter. I recall reading somewhere (possibly here) that being able to complete FizzBuzz puts you in the top quartile of candidates. I can believe it.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:41
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leper khan posted:I've seen people get through a whiteboard gauntlet who can't write code and seen people fail who singlehandedly implemented software lots of people use everyday. IAWTP
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Jun 18, 2017 19:43
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so what does the ideal programmer interview look like, then?
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Jun 18, 2017 19:43
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like an interview for basically any other kind of job?
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Jun 18, 2017 19:45
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JewKiller 3000 posted:like an interview for basically any other kind of job? I interviewed for service jobs in high school where the interview process was "show up and be able to sign a piece of paper" but I'm assuming that's not what you're going for
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Jun 18, 2017 19:52
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he wants programmers to take an in basket test
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Jun 18, 2017 19:54
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hi there, nice to meet you! let me tell you a bit about our company and the details of the position we're interviewing you for. it involves a lot of x. you're here because i see on your resume that you have lots of experience with x! can you explain your contributions to this most recent project on your resume? how did you handle the problems y and z that often occur when working with x? what was the team structure like at your previous jobs, and how do you feel about it? at this company we mostly do things this way and use these tools, is that something you'd be interested in? great, when can you start? the problem with interviews at places like google is that there is no x. you aren't being hired to do a specific job, you're just going into a pool, because they are hiring poo poo tons of you. oh and you're probably a fresh grad with no experience on your resume other than your stanford classes so my technique above doesn't really work. there's a reason google does things the way they do it... but that method doesn't and shouldn't apply to basically any other company out there. people just do it because the valley culture promotes this 10x programmer notion so they think they have to Hire The Best, but they don't know how do to that, so they just imitate google because it's google
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Jun 18, 2017 19:56
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JewKiller 3000 posted:hi there, nice to meet you! let me tell you a bit about our company and the details of the position we're interviewing you for. it involves a lot of x. you're here because i see on your resume that you have lots of experience with x! can you explain your contributions to this most recent project on your resume? how did you handle the problems y and z that often occur when working with x? what was the team structure like at your previous jobs, and how do you feel about it? at this company we mostly do things this way and use these tools, is that something you'd be interested in? great, when can you start? This... is exactly what a lot of programming jobs ask?
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Jun 18, 2017 20:00
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fwiw interviewers aren't always looking for correct solutions to the dumb problems. The whole point is to see how you approach and deal with a problem that you don't have a pre-prepared answer for. I've seen people get rejected, even though they got a correct solution to the problem, because they either sat in silence the whole time or took a dumb approach, or sometimes had clearly memorised the question from glassdoor and wasn't able to elaborate on his process. Likewise, I've been successful at interview before even though I wasn't able to produce a correct solution. There's more to it than just a result.
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Jun 18, 2017 20:05
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qhat posted:This... is exactly what a lot of programming jobs ask? sure, i've had interviews like this, such as the ones for the company i'm working at now. i've also had interviews that consisted of an all-day gauntlet, with one person after the other coming into the room and presenting a new shiteboard problem. no discussion of resume or experience or anything, just straight to toy problem live-"coding". and the gateway to this onsite fun time was... you guessed it, more toy problems, but over the phone/internet. no details about the specific position or chat with the hiring manager because neither exist
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Jun 18, 2017 20:08
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how do you know if someone is a good programmer other than having them write code?
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Jun 18, 2017 20:33
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The Management posted:how do you know if someone is a good programmer other than having them write code? just ask them, duh
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Jun 18, 2017 20:43
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I think it's mostly just trying to quickly filter out the absolutely terrible candidates and then try to gather if they're someone you'd want to spend 8 hours a day with. everything beyond that is just unanswered prayers that they'll work out once hired
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Jun 18, 2017 20:46
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JewKiller 3000 posted:hi there, nice to meet you! let me tell you a bit about our company and the details of the position we're interviewing you for. it involves a lot of x. you're here because i see on your resume that you have lots of experience with x! can you explain your contributions to this most recent project on your resume? how did you handle the problems y and z that often occur when working with x? what was the team structure like at your previous jobs, and how do you feel about it? at this company we mostly do things this way and use these tools, is that something you'd be interested in? great, when can you start?
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Jun 18, 2017 20:48
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JewKiller 3000 posted:sure, i've had interviews like this, such as the ones for the company i'm working at now. i've also had interviews that consisted of an all-day gauntlet, with one person after the other coming into the room and presenting a new shiteboard problem. no discussion of resume or experience or anything, just straight to toy problem live-"coding". and the gateway to this onsite fun time was... you guessed it, more toy problems, but over the phone/internet. no details about the specific position or chat with the hiring manager because neither exist I'll be honest I put little weight on things people claim to have done in their resume, the only way to know if someone can code is to see if they can code. Anyone can put poo poo on their resume and its really easy to be completely dead weight on projects. I can't count the number of resumes I've seen that claim loads of software engineering experience who can't write code. If you can actually do the poo poo your resume claims then coding basic things shouldn't be hard. 
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Jun 18, 2017 20:51
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There's a lot of people itt drastically underestimating how many absolutely terrible programmers there are out there
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Jun 18, 2017 20:51
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i got the house. the landlord is super nice and facetimed us a walk through. it's bigger than my current house and has a back yard fenced in. just need to sell this house and i am out of the woods on this poo poo.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:01
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qhat posted:There's a lot of people itt drastically underestimating how many absolutely terrible programmers there are out there and overestimating how hard it is to spot these people like a mile away if you put in 5 minutes of effort screening before you setup an interview
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Jun 18, 2017 21:09
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I had an interview recently where they sent over a bunch of programming problems via email with a 3 hour time limit to complete and mail back. Nothing too obscure, write a parser for this basic html, write a SQL query to do this given these tables, write a recursive function to do this, implement these functions and write a bunch of test cases for them. I found that to be a pretty good way to tell who are imposters and who is not, and the best thing about it, it requires no time on your part.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:10
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ive never written a parser from scratch. who expects that from people when there's already good libraries for it in every non poo poo language?
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Jun 18, 2017 21:11
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