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In Japan there are vending machines for everything all over the place and it owns. More vending machines please.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:18
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Cicero posted:In Japan there are vending machines for everything all over the place and it owns. More vending machines please. Japan has a bunch of circumstances (service employee shortage, extremely high retail space costs and a coin-centric cash-culture) which make vending machines more lucrative than in other countries. I wouldn't count on them making a big return splash in the West just yet.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:22
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OwlFancier posted:What's an automat?  Fast food restaurants that were popular before real fast food restaurants. They were kind of set up like huge vending machines with human machinery behind the scenes. The thing about automats is that they were mostly an urban thing, and once "real" fast food showed up they couldn't compete with the super low wages, convenience of drive-thrus, and ability to expand out into the growing suburbs. There were also apparently payment issues since the technology to take bills rather than coins wasn't widely and cheaply available at the time. Eatsa is pretty much a modern day automat with a lovely techbro startup flavor. MiddleOne posted:Japan has a bunch of circumstances (service employee shortage, extremely high retail space costs and a coin-centric cash-culture) which make vending machines more lucrative than in other countries. I wouldn't count on them making a big return splash in the West just yet. I don't really disagree with your overall point here, but in fairness it's been a while since I've seen a vending machine where I couldn't pay with a card or my phone.
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Jun 18, 2017 21:23
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OwlFancier posted:What's an automat? Here's a 1930s postcard for one that explains all you need to know:
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Jun 18, 2017 21:26
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Automats still exist in asia. Both in the form of literal fancy vending machines but also in the form of restaurants that you walk up to, buy a ticket from a machine then give the ticket at a counter and you give you your meal. They are less based around pretending humans don't exist because they don't hide everyone behind a wall like US automats do but the whole concept is fundamentally the same where your interaction is with a machine and the person is only there to hand you something.
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Jun 18, 2017 22:06
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Being a cashier sucks anyway, no big loss. Just give everyone a mincome instead
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Jun 18, 2017 22:27
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incoherent posted:https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/news/rigged-forced-into-debt-worked-past-exhaustion-left-with-nothing/ Good to see the GTA V credit repo scam at work.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:08
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fishmech posted:Here's a 1930s postcard for one that explains all you need to know: I know these are still around in some countries, like the Netherlands.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:11
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Paradoxish posted:
For those not in the bay area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWeocXaIPMo&hd=1 it's alright
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Jun 18, 2017 23:18
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Those seem... OK I guess though it looks like an overcomplicated buffet.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:21
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Sushi conveyor belts aren't a very long way from automats.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:26
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEBO
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Jun 18, 2017 23:27
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Automats still exist in asia. Both in the form of literal fancy vending machines but also in the form of restaurants that you walk up to, buy a ticket from a machine then give the ticket at a counter and you give you your meal. They are less based around pretending humans don't exist because they don't hide everyone behind a wall like US automats do but the whole concept is fundamentally the same where your interaction is with a machine and the person is only there to hand you something. This is called a WaWa in the US.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:37
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El Mero Mero posted:For those not in the bay area: Wow, it's like literally any fast-casual restaurant but with pressing buttons instead of talking to people. How disruptive.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:43
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Paradoxish posted:Which parts do you believe aren't possible? The only thing that's pie-in-the-sky in that article is the idea of fully automated delivery. Everything else either exists right now or could exist if there was demand for it. The quote at the end of the article nails it, in any case: Nah. Not yet. For starters, what about WIC? Most of the people on food stamps have no idea what they can buy. What about coupons? People read them wrong all the time, and they'll argue until they get what they want. Alcohol? Cigarettes? What about stupid assholes that want to stand there and argue with the computer kiosk because they're drunk, pissed, or lonely? What about the all the services that grocery stores provide, such as wire transfers, lottery services, etc? Will they all be Amazon Go eye in the sky style? How will it handle customers that only have cash? Who bags? Who helps the customer out? Who deals with all the poo poo the customer decides they didn't want at the last second, or replaces the broken/bad item they're trying to purchase? In a lot of grocery stores, there would still be people on the front end doing all the tasks a cashier would. It won't always be that, though. Automation taking off in a big way just as my generation recovers from the great recession...  Peachfart posted:Wow, it's like literally any fast-casual restaurant but with pressing buttons instead of talking to people. I"m a boring shut-in and even I think that a good waitress or clerk or whatever is part of the experience. The future sucks.
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Jun 18, 2017 23:57
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got any sevens posted:Being a cashier sucks anyway, no big loss. Just give everyone a mincome instead quote:The bill has two major provisions. First, it declares that all families in Hawaii are entitled to basic financial security. "As far as I'm told, it's the first time any state has made such a pronouncement," wrote Lee. The second provision establishes a number of government offices "to analyze our state's economy and find ways to ensure all families have basic financial security, including an evaluation of different forms of a full or partial universal basic income." quote:The congressman thanked "redditors" in his post, as he said the site became his first resource in considering UBI, and added a Reddit-standard TL;DR at the end: "The State of Hawaii is going to begin evaluating universal basic income." Just kidding, there are plenty of perfectly fine subreddits
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Jun 19, 2017 00:06
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OwlFancier posted:Those seem... OK I guess though it looks like an overcomplicated buffet. It's far less complicated to ensure the food is paid for properly than at a similar place laid out buffet style. Also, less chance of some gross dude coughing all over the food you're later going to pick out.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:14
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I"m a boring shut-in and even I think that a good waitress or clerk or whatever is part of the experience. The future sucks. I think the interesting thing about automation in the kitchen is that when enough of it is done by robots, it may well be cheaper overall to pick up food to go (even assuming you have a minimum standard for decent ingredients) than to cook at home, since the auto-restaurant will have economies of scale.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:15
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I"m a boring shut-in and even I think that a good waitress or clerk or whatever is part of the experience. The future sucks. Automation isn't what's killing off having a good waitress. Being a good server is pretty drat hard work and takes a hard worker to actually do it and chances are you do it because of the tips. You can make decent money in the right place if you're good at the job. All the restaurant world sees is that the minimum wage is $2.83/hour so they've been heaping more and more side work on the waitstaff. They're required to make up the difference if you end up at less than minimum wage but that'd doesn't really matter; if you make any tips at all they're paying you less than the actual minimum wage for anybody else. Which points to the core of the problem; it isn't automation killing the well being of bottom rung workers by eliminating their jobs. That'll be happening no matter what because humanity is ultimately lazy and wants easier ways to do things; hence machines. The problem is that the decisions on what to do with automation generally lie in the hands of people with lots and lots of money. All they can see is "make our expenses smaller" without regard to any human suffering that can cause.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:15
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What kind of soulless jerk would resurrect the automat and not take it as a opportunity to Art Deco the gently caress outta that place? That's the best part.
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Jun 19, 2017 00:19
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Automation isn't what's killing off having a good waitress. Being a good server is pretty drat hard work and takes a hard worker to actually do it and chances are you do it because of the tips. You can make decent money in the right place if you're good at the job. All the restaurant world sees is that the minimum wage is $2.83/hour so they've been heaping more and more side work on the waitstaff. They're required to make up the difference if you end up at less than minimum wage but that'd doesn't really matter; if you make any tips at all they're paying you less than the actual minimum wage for anybody else. Not surprisingly, it's generally (not exclusively tho) poo poo rear end red states that allow workers to be paid significantly sub minimum wage in lieu of tips. Ratoslov posted:What kind of soulless jerk would resurrect the automat and not take it as a opportunity to Art Deco the gently caress outta that place? That's the best part.  Bring back art-decoed automats
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Jun 19, 2017 00:31
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I"m a boring shut-in and even I think that a good waitress or clerk or whatever is part of the experience. The future sucks. "Ol' Grampa NerdyMcNerd, couldn't enjoy food unless he had a servant waiting on him hand and foot." Cicero fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 00:32
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Jun 19, 2017 01:17
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Cicero posted:I wonder if in D&D 100 years from now this comment will be hopelessly bougie or even creepy. There are people that think exactly that right now.  I don't really mind serving people, personally. I've had some pretty positive experiences working service positions. The worst part of the service ( or retail ) industry is the industry itself.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:29
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:There are people that think exactly that right now. The industry itself never took a swing at me, drunkenly tried to grab my rear end or lectured me about the 18 lane freeway North Korea was building under the Pacific Ocean to invade 'MURICA. The people are the worst part of Service/Retail. By a mile.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:38
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Xaris posted:I don't disagree, but I think it's worth pointing that in states here like California you are required to be paid minimum wage no matter how much you make tips, this can range from $10 - $15 in the bay area (then theres a whole shitshow discussion to be had about CoL here of course which is insane but that's a tangential issue). And I think most people here tip pretty decently from my experience so you can pull some pretty decent money and if you're splitting an apartment with other people or living at home you can do decently well, still will have no retirement prolly working till you die and won't make huge savings but that's most of america already including myself. Most people are average tippers more or less wherever you go. Making money serving is really about quantity rather than quality; being able to skillfully handle more tables at once means more money. If you give good service to them all you'll get the same percentage of lovely/average/good tips but a bigger volume. More volume is more money. Plus the very good at the job can go beyond working at cheaper places and up to classier joints which means more cash. Bar tending is similar; actually a difficult job but you can do way better than minimum wage if you're good at it. The problem isn't letting places pay tipped workers less than a regular minimum wage; it's places forcing those employees to do poo poo that non-tipped employees should be doing. Well that and minimum wages in America being absolute garbage overall. People that excel at those jobs are generally people who work very hard and aren't satisfied with lovely wages; they're leaving those jobs for other careers. Which is a shame; some people actually just love the havoc of food service and hate getting up before noon.
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Jun 19, 2017 01:45
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Ratoslov posted:What kind of soulless jerk would resurrect the automat and not take it as a opportunity to Art Deco the gently caress outta that place? That's the best part. I think people HAVE tried that retro style a few times. But come on, there has to be a point where people stop trying to bank their whole business on some nostalgia for a thing that virtually no one alive has even ever gone to or seen that wasn't even successful in it's own try and give the concept a fair shake in the modern world.
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Jun 19, 2017 02:01
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Xae posted:The industry itself never took a swing at me, drunkenly tried to grab my rear end or lectured me about the 18 lane freeway North Korea was building under the Pacific Ocean to invade 'MURICA. The industry itself is responsible for that, though. Management and corporate rarely stand behind their workers. Being yelled at, abused, groped, stalked, etc, is 'part of the job' and the people who could do anything to curtail this behavior almost never do. The customer is always right, and if you don't like it, gently caress you. We'll hire someone else. We set higher expectations for kindergartners than we do for grown adults in a store or at a restaurant, and it has fostered some absolutely atrocious attitudes that reach beyond job itself. Despite the fact that a lot of jobs pay minimum wage, the retail serf or the burger flipper are the face of minimum wage- and if you work one of those jobs, you deserve poo poo pay. I kind of wonder about the role of sexism in this, because it seems the most poo poo-on positions are ( or were ) traditionally staffed by women.
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Jun 19, 2017 02:09
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Nah. Not yet. For starters, what about WIC? Most of the people on food stamps have no idea what they can buy. What about coupons? People read them wrong all the time, and they'll argue until they get what they want. Alcohol? Cigarettes? What about stupid assholes that want to stand there and argue with the computer kiosk because they're drunk, pissed, or lonely? Not sure why you're responding to me since I thought I pretty clearly implied that I don't think the fully automated grocery store is something that's coming or that there's any real demand for, but also most of the problems you're talking about here are extremely minor. The reason I highlighted that quote from the end of the article is because it's way, way more realistic about how technology changes things. You don't automate retail, you just have fewer brick & mortar retail locations as more people buy things online. Food stamps are a non-issue in that case, because you can easily have people check a box and then just show them items that are purchasable. Coupons? Why bother? You can provide people with codes and/or discounts that are just associated directly with their accounts. None of this is going to eliminate retail or cashiers, but it's already having a very real effect that's going to continue to narrow the retail customer base from "people who need to buy things" to "people who want to be in a store." The last step is probably going to be widespread, relatively cheap same day delivery. That's the point where ordering something online in the morning and having it delivered is potentially faster than just picking it up on your way home in the afternoon. edit- For what it's worth, I actually do think that something like Amazon Go is the future, but it's a future that's still pretty far off and retail will probably be completely eviscerated by online sales long before partially automated stores are a common thing. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 04:12
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Amazon grocery options are currently both expensive and extremely limited. Costco and safeway are better on both fronts.
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Jun 19, 2017 04:44
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The only reason people exist in retail, is because they can't be automated out yet. As soon as they can, they will. If the choice is between saving $0.10 per order or the 'human interaction ' of modern retail (read: the emotionless scripted phrases clerks spout at you, as their soul is slowly destroyed by late capitalism), 99% of people are going to go for lower prices. Only bourgie liberals give two shits about anachronistic conspicuous consumption (eg - the idiots who still buy vinyl because they enjoy the sound of the placebo effect).
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Jun 19, 2017 05:18
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Spazzle posted:Amazon grocery options are currently both expensive and extremely limited. Costco and safeway are better on both fronts. Yeah, they should probably buy some big supermarket chain. I bet that'd make the news
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Jun 19, 2017 05:23
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:The industry itself is responsible for that, though. Management and corporate rarely stand behind their workers. Being yelled at, abused, groped, stalked, etc, is 'part of the job' and the people who could do anything to curtail this behavior almost never do. The customer is always right, and if you don't like it, gently caress you. We'll hire someone else. People being assholes is not unique to any one industry. Retail and Services just run into the worst of it because dealing with people is their job and it is the general public. People are responsible for their own actions. Blaming "The Industry" is just excusing people being lovely. Don't do it.
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Jun 19, 2017 05:43
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Xae posted:People being assholes is not unique to any one industry. You're not entirely wrong about this particular aspect, but "The Industry" is definitely responsible for you not being paid enough and the general lack of respect for retail/service workers because if no one respects them, then they don't have to be paid very much. lovely people are going to be lovely but they'll be shittier to people who they don't respect, and to whom they feel they can be lovely, and the company has a vested interest in keeping respect level low so you have idiots out there against a minimum wage increase because "people who work at McDonalds don't deserve more money". If we treated working in the service industry as a normal goddamn job like a plumber or a miner or a factory worker, there would be less assholes in general (though definitely not none, and because of the customer facing nature of the service industry there would still be plenty of assholes, like you said). I'd rather have to deal with individual lovely people than an entire lovely entity, especially if the latter is basically in control of my life. I deal with lovely people but there are also good people out there. I never deal with the occasional good retail industry because there is only one and it sucks, out loud, full time. The retail industry needs to be razed so we can build it up from scratch, because it's only going to get bigger as the years go on.
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Jun 19, 2017 05:59
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Eh it's both. As they say, the worst part of public transit is the general public and it's not wrong, ask bus drivers and station agents or DMV workers, and they will have hosed up horror poo poo about awful people; often far worse than retail. Pretty much any and every public-facing job is going to be in for a bad time. The good part, and big difference, is those people get paid better (and sometimes earlier+better retirement) to put up with the public facing "hazard pay" so in that respect it is the industry fault for racing to the bottom and anti-union but that's never really going to change. Now "the industry" could do better in a lot of ways like Nerdy said too but really lovely people are never going away.
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Jun 19, 2017 06:00
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Xaris posted:Eh it's both. As they say, the worst part of public transit is the general public and it's not wrong, ask bus drivers and station agents or DMV workers, and they will have hosed up horror poo poo about awful people; often far worse than retail. Pretty much any and every public-facing job is going to be in for a bad time. The good part, and big difference, is those people get paid better (and sometimes earlier+better retirement) to put up with the public facing "hazard pay" so in that respect it is the industry fault for racing to the bottom and anti-union but that's never really going to change. Now "the industry" could do better in a lot of ways like Nerdy said too but really lovely people are never going away. if i got the pay and benefits that a bus driver gets, i'd happily say that the public is the worst part of my job. but since i get paid a touch over minimum wage and have no benefits, or even guaranteed hours, the people who won't give me those things are the biggest problem.
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Jun 19, 2017 06:04
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DC Murderverse posted:You're not entirely wrong about this particular aspect, but "The Industry" is definitely responsible for you not being paid enough and the general lack of respect for retail/service workers because if no one respects them, then they don't have to be paid very much. lovely people are going to be lovely but they'll be shittier to people who they don't respect, and to whom they feel they can be lovely, and the company has a vested interest in keeping respect level low so you have idiots out there against a minimum wage increase because "people who work at McDonalds don't deserve more money". If we treated working in the service industry as a normal goddamn job like a plumber or a miner or a factory worker, there would be less assholes in general (though definitely not none, and because of the customer facing nature of the service industry there would still be plenty of assholes, like you said). It also doesn't help that we've trained American consumers to act like horrible jerks because it gets them free stuff. If you complain enough you'll get a discount, something free, or whatever. I can't tell you the number of times back when I worked in a restaurant that people would come in, eat every bite of food, tell the people at the table how good it was, then complain at the register to get it comped or get sent home with a free pie. Granted a lot of it is just the societal stuff mentioned; retail folks are beneath everybody else. Of course the bottom rung people are also the "face" of the store, as it were; if anything at all goes wrong the rank-and-file folks are the first to hear about it. Retail stores themselves have been increasingly lovely to the customers and as the saying goes...poo poo rolls downhill. It isn't the cashiers' fault that Walmart is running on a skeleton crew. It isn't an individual cashier's fault if Walmart has 16 lanes, two of them are open, and there are 2,000 customers in the store but guess who hears about it?
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Jun 19, 2017 06:10
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Automats still exist in asia. Both in the form of literal fancy vending machines but also in the form of restaurants that you walk up to, buy a ticket from a machine then give the ticket at a counter and you give you your meal. They are less based around pretending humans don't exist because they don't hide everyone behind a wall like US automats do but the whole concept is fundamentally the same where your interaction is with a machine and the person is only there to hand you something. I don't know about the rest of the world but in Northern Europe, in an effort to cut labour costs, fast-food chains are implementing ordering kiosks on masse so we're already heading in that direction too.
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Jun 19, 2017 06:24
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MiddleOne posted:I don't know about the rest of the world but in Northern Europe, in an effort to cut labour costs, fast-food chains are implementing ordering kiosks on masse so we're already heading in that direction too. It's happening in the US too, but not on a wide scale (yet). Most fast food and fast casual chains have gone hard into online ordering, though, which is more or less the same thing without the physical in-store hardware.
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Jun 19, 2017 06:26
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Cashier jobs need to be automated. I've done the whole 8-10 hour cashier gig when I was younger and I would not wish that kind of hell onto anyone. There are the rare oddballs that love that kind of job, but if you value any kind brain growth like learning new things, or even just experiencing variety in life, then that job will suck the life force completely out of you. You stand in your little enclosure for the whole day asking people the same loving questions and making the same exact muscle movements over and over and over and over again. You always have this constant cloud of anxiety hanging over you if the line gets too long, or someone takes "too long" to get their card out to pay because it directly effects your "Speed Score" numbers. If you are too slow because of helping a lil old lady or whatever and your score drops below 95%, then you get your rear end chewed by management. Even if you explain to management the clear and rational reasons behind your lower score, they will still literally tell you poo poo like "Well, you should of MOTIVATED the 'guest' to get her money out faster" or even "Well, you should of just took her wallet and pulled her credit card out yourself". If things are slow and there are no 'guests', you are expected to 'zone' aka company sanctioned obsessive compulsive disorder development and straighten out random poo poo on the shelves. If it's already straight and symmetrical well too bad because it could always be more symmetrical. Your cashier station is never close enough to fellow co-workers and chronic understaffing typically means being busy all the time so you never get to socialize or talk to other fellow humans beyond the company script you must blurt out to all the 'guests' over and over again. You must stand at attention at all times because sitting implies that you are lazy and uncaring about the guest's purchases. You are not allowed to have a bottle of water or keep a bottle of water with you at your Gulag station without a loving doctor's note because taking sips of water implies that you are lazy and uncaring about the guest's purchases. You must always treat the guest in highest regard and basically complement them on any and all of their purchases much like a teacher would complement a student for getting an A on a quiz. May God help you if you have to step away and take a poo poo. You get about 3min of bathroom time before management starts texting you on your phone asking what's taking so long and if you can hurry up and poo faster. Sometimes management will walk near/into the employee bathroom to 'verify' that you indeed took a poo poo and were not just texting on your phone or shooting up heroin or planning to start a Union. Picking cotton bare handed is a more meaningful existence. Avalanche fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 08:46
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