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So steel faith had a huge content update today, bunch of new units and balance changes
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Jun 20, 2017 12:32
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Super-heavy infantry for Empire and Bretonnia? Looks like Radious-level garbage.
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Jun 20, 2017 12:51
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Yeah sounds like complete poo poo.
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Jun 20, 2017 13:03
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I haven't played with the new units yet and will probably ignore them. I was really enjoying steel faith too..
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Jun 20, 2017 13:06
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Lassitude posted:Super-heavy infantry for Empire and Bretonnia? Looks like Radious-level garbage. While I kind of agree that adding foot knights to Empire and Bretonnia feels super awkward and dumb, at the very least both units look very, very tame compared to Radious's "tack 500 abilities onto one unit and go" stuff. The Bretonnian one in particular looks actually relatively weak, with a small unit size and fairly mediocre stats. Checking in-game, the Imperial Guard require a level 5 town to even recruit and have 50% more upkeep than Greatswords despite similar stats; the only real difference is the Guard are anti-large and have Last Stand so they're unbreakable when almost wiped out. Probably not really significant in terms of campaign play at all. Kanos fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 13:13
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Gort posted:Yeah, the bad traits thing has always been poo poo in Total War. spent the turn recruiting units? have fun with your reduced move speed
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Jun 20, 2017 14:17
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Who the hell are these people giving $10 a month to some random internet modder? Like a one time thing sure but monthly? 
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Jun 20, 2017 14:22
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Mazz posted:Who the hell are these people giving $10 a month to some random internet modder? Like a one time thing sure but monthly? Patreon is a pretty huge website where people often give away substantially more money per month for substantially less.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:43
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I'm fine with stuff like Nuln Ironsides that are real lore things but idk why everyone and their dog is obsessed with foot knights all round. Especially as a new unit, if you want foot knights foot reiksguard and foot questing knights at least used to be a thing and fit in well. Also disappointed with bretonnian crossbows but that's not a huge change. There used to be/maybe still is in the roleplaying game lore about the rising merchant class in coastal bretonnian cities with some french revolution vibes. It'd be cool if they rolled hard with that and made it like Rise of the Samurai, where you have to choose to specialize in either knights or modern units and can't have both.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:47
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:There used to be/maybe still is in the roleplaying game lore about the rising merchant class in coastal bretonnian cities with some french revolution vibes. It'd be cool if they rolled hard with that and made it like Rise of the Samurai, where you have to choose to specialize in either knights or modern units and can't have both. The old timey/modernist split for humanity is already in game, with Bretonnia representing Ye Olde Times and Empire representing the march of technology.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:58
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Kanos posted:Patreon is a pretty huge website where people often give away substantially more money per month for substantially less. I respect the hustle of all these girls who rake in free money for giving out underwear shots.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:58
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I picked the game back up after not playing for a while and I'm having some trouble figuring out something I never wrapped my head around before. I'm playing as Dwarfs and I've got my main army defending a city that's about to get attacked by a big Orc army and a 2nd, slightly smaller one. I've got a 2nd army of my own that I want to help out with defending the city, otherwise I don't think I can hold them off. How do I position my 2nd army so that they're pulled into the fight when the Orcs come and attack? I thought they just had to be nearby inside that circle of influence, but last night I tested it and the big Orc army attacked my backup army, and it wasn't pulling my main army or garrison into the fight. So I had to retreat with that backup army and then both Orc armies were able to attack my city at once and I couldn't beat them with just my main army and the garrison alone. Sorry if that was confusing, I'm still technically new to this and it's been a long time since I last played (near launch).
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Jun 20, 2017 15:00
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Black Orcs with shield and hand weapon are my only essential mod unit, and that's because I'm loving lame.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:00
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DO IT TO IT posted:I picked the game back up after not playing for a while and I'm having some trouble figuring out something I never wrapped my head around before. I'm playing as Dwarfs and I've got my main army defending a city that's about to get attacked by a big Orc army and a 2nd, slightly smaller one. I've got a 2nd army of my own that I want to help out with defending the city, otherwise I don't think I can hold them off. How do I position my 2nd army so that they're pulled into the fight when the Orcs come and attack? I thought they just had to be nearby inside that circle of influence, but last night I tested it and the big Orc army attacked my backup army, and it wasn't pulling my main army or garrison into the fight. So I had to retreat with that backup army and then both Orc armies were able to attack my city at once and I couldn't beat them with just my main army and the garrison alone. Sorry if that was confusing, I'm still technically new to this and it's been a long time since I last played (near launch). Put the army in ambush stance outside the city.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:08
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DO IT TO IT posted:I picked the game back up after not playing for a while and I'm having some trouble figuring out something I never wrapped my head around before. I'm playing as Dwarfs and I've got my main army defending a city that's about to get attacked by a big Orc army and a 2nd, slightly smaller one. I've got a 2nd army of my own that I want to help out with defending the city, otherwise I don't think I can hold them off. How do I position my 2nd army so that they're pulled into the fight when the Orcs come and attack? I thought they just had to be nearby inside that circle of influence, but last night I tested it and the big Orc army attacked my backup army, and it wasn't pulling my main army or garrison into the fight. So I had to retreat with that backup army and then both Orc armies were able to attack my city at once and I couldn't beat them with just my main army and the garrison alone. Sorry if that was confusing, I'm still technically new to this and it's been a long time since I last played (near launch). If the Orcs first laid siege to your city with one army that removes its ability to reinforce or be reinforced by armies outside the walls. Then they move up their second army to engage your reinforcement stack. Your army in the city can't support because they are under siege, but the sieging Orc army can still reinforce their friends. In cases like this the only thing you can do to prevent getting completely hosed is to have both of your armies outside the city, but inside the reinforcement zone; that way if the enemy sieges your city you only lose the garrison reinforcements. If you can't take the enemy armies without the garrison then you are out of luck. Alternatively, if you can reload to a previous turn you can always try ambush stance.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:13
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DO IT TO IT posted:I picked the game back up after not playing for a while and I'm having some trouble figuring out something I never wrapped my head around before. I'm playing as Dwarfs and I've got my main army defending a city that's about to get attacked by a big Orc army and a 2nd, slightly smaller one. I've got a 2nd army of my own that I want to help out with defending the city, otherwise I don't think I can hold them off. How do I position my 2nd army so that they're pulled into the fight when the Orcs come and attack? I thought they just had to be nearby inside that circle of influence, but last night I tested it and the big Orc army attacked my backup army, and it wasn't pulling my main army or garrison into the fight. So I had to retreat with that backup army and then both Orc armies were able to attack my city at once and I couldn't beat them with just my main army and the garrison alone. Sorry if that was confusing, I'm still technically new to this and it's been a long time since I last played (near launch). FYI your army + the garrison should be able to absolutely crush 2 orc stacks, assuming you have walls. Without walls it'll be tougher but you should still be able to win if you have even a little bit of artillery. If you really don't want to lose the city you could corner camp.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:19
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Jamwad Hilder posted:FYI your army + the garrison should be able to absolutely crush 2 orc stacks, assuming you have walls. Without walls it'll be tougher but you should still be able to win if you have even a little bit of artillery. If you really don't want to lose the city you could corner camp. Obviously focus on the siege towers, but Dwarfs are absolute killers in siege battles. I've had Quarrlers fight off Chaos Warriors that were dumb enough to use ladders.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:38
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Yeah, I wish I had walls but unfortunately I haven't gotten them built in time. Maybe I don't actually need the garrison, just my 2 armies, but I'm not great at the game so I figured I'd need all the help I can get. I did try to fight the battle without my 2nd army and got a close defeat, so I reloaded. I think it's crazy overleveled Grimgor that's screwing me there. I'll have to try putting my guys in Ambush stance to give that a shot. Even though I don't have walls, I do have a couple cannons and a grudge thrower or 2.
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Jun 20, 2017 15:48
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:So steel faith had a huge content update today, bunch of new units and balance changes Goddammit. Well, I mean, I've played about 500 hours into non-SFO TW:W so I might as well try this new thing out. These are the new Empire units. Imperial Guard: They get an armored anti-large AP which isn't too crazy, Empire already had an armored anti-infantry AP. Very expensive and hard to get, though. I'm okay with really really expensive units that are slightly better than existing units. Sigmarite Disciples are basically just the Aspiring Champions but with AP (no leadership buff, instead give a +10% physical resistance with immune to psychology; they just chant prayers). I dig this unit, Empire has no support units which seems a little out of place for a faction based around clinging to faith in the face of certain doom. Nuln Ironsides are a real thing from lore that makes sense: handgunners with a repeating handgun. Unnecessary though, handgunners already exist. Witch Hunter Retinue are an infantry version of cannons, really. Only 12 models (on ultra) to a unit, with bonus to large. Super special ranged units, and do really heavy damage to small units. They're giant killers. Also unnecessary when you have handgunners, honestly. Knights Panther are AP, anti-infantry, horse cavalry. Basically just a better version of Reiksguard but with a worse charge bonus. They just stay in the fight better. Reiksguard lack AP though, which is a problem. I can see them being a welcome addition if you, like me, really hate the idea of bringing demigryphs because of a lack of AP cavalry. Empire Knights and Reiksguard should have been differentiated a little bit in Vanilla, introducing a third horse unit is unnecessary. CA could've just made Reiksguard carry halberds and be AP. Overall this was an unnecessary mod but it's juuuuust different enough that I'll probably do an Empire game with it.
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Jun 20, 2017 17:18
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I like SFO and the new Empire units seem alright overall. The Huntsmen, Nuln Ironsides, and Knights Panther all fit in the lore and provide good alternatives in their unit class. The Sigmarite Disciples and Witch Hunter Retinue feel like Chaos' Aspiring Champions, but more importantly give the Empire the ability to deal with ethereal units. Imperial Guard are basically Greatsword-level Halberdiers but disproportionately expensive and have a lot less models. The Bretonnian units, apart from the Macemen, are lame in terms of lore though. I'm guessing that at least Steel Faith has his head screwed on right in terms of balance; the foot knights and crossbow-men-at-arms feel like they're designed for offensive and defensive sieges, respectively. Hence the impression that foot knights are better than foot squires at a prolonged melee but will get rolled by Greatswords, and that crossbow-men-at-arms give Bretonnians a decent hybrid unit for defending walls instead of longbowmen getting torn to shreds by chaff melee units. Still, I guess this should've been an optional submod instead, so people can pick and choose what they want. I get the feeling some modder drama is about to go down soon...
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Jun 20, 2017 19:36
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Bretonnian sieges are the worst things. I think giving them some better fighting infantry is at least a convenience thing even if it's not lore friendly. Giving some anti-ethereal tools to Empire seems unnecessary, considering there are.. what, 3 ethereal units in the game? I agree, it should have been a submod but whatever it's still fun. Some folks are gonna flip their poo poo at a modder who makes a free and optional mod lol.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:45
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Those units all sound pretty inoffensive as far as balance goes. A little extra flavor is nice.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:29
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jokes posted:Giving some anti-ethereal tools to Empire seems unnecessary, considering there are.. what, 3 ethereal units in the game? To be fair, 3 out of the 4 ethereal units I can recall off the top of my head are all Vampire Counts units, and they're pretty much the main nemesis of the Empire until Chaos comes a-knockin'.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:55
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Empire have always had bright wizards and recently the silver bullets. I'm sure there are other buffs that melt ethereal in other schools too. Did they give VC some ranged units to help in this lack of parity.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:57
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What melts ethereals is their conviction in the glory of the Empire as they sacrifice themselves by the hundred to kill a handful of ghosts. And also mortar shells and a squad of demigryphs in their back and crossbows and gunpowder.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:59
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jokes posted:Bretonnian sieges are the worst things. I think giving them some better fighting infantry is at least a convenience thing even if it's not lore friendly. Giving some anti-ethereal tools to Empire seems unnecessary, considering there are.. what, 3 ethereal units in the game? Bretonnian sieges are all about battering down a wall section or opening or battering down a gate and then just cramming cavalry into the town until you win. Or you just starve them out, it works you just need a little patience and home security. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 21:00
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Randarkman posted:Bretonnian sieges are all about battering down a wall section or opening or battering down a gate and then just cramming cavalry into the town until you win. I can imagine Brettonian lords throwing a huge banquet outside the walls of a city they are laying siege to, like whatever Lord was laying siege to Storm's End in ASoIaF
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Jun 20, 2017 21:16
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Randarkman posted:Bretonnian sieges are all about battering down a wall section or opening or battering down a gate and then just cramming cavalry into the town until you win. I siege them with cavalry then have another Lord come in with a full stack of peasants and archers to game the AR.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:16
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I appreciate how different Bret sieges are in the campaign due to their lack of elite infantry (until very late game). It's a total meat grinder where thousands of peasants will be killed storming the walls. I wouldn't want it any other way. Kind of disappointed in SFO bloating up with new units. I felt like SFO already had great unit variety by mixing up all the base game units to make them all have better roles.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:19
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IMO it'd be a good addition to this and future melee-era total wars if mounted knights(/samurai/mongols/etc) could dismount for siege battles, and only siege battles. I'm pretty sure bretts in the lore will dismount for sieges. Defending the walls/first-unto-the-breaching is the place to be if you want glory, ain't gonna let the peasants get all the honors.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:29
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They could dismount in the earliest total wars. The problem is that it's basically never worthwhile to do so.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:37
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You say that but in shogun 2 if one spear cavalry is about to get attacked by a another spear cav unit, dismounting yours and hiding behind your horses (Which breaks/slows the enemies charge) meant you could see them off with relative ease. I used that trick a few times in multiplayer to kill great guard (Elite heavy spear cav) with yari cav (Middle tier spear cav). You could also do the same if your (mounted) general was being threatened by spear cav, a dismounted general unit will eviscerate mounted spear cav but die almost instantly if mounted and charged.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:51
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Empire have always had bright wizards and recently the silver bullets. I'm sure there are other buffs that melt ethereal in other schools too. Did they give VC some ranged units to help in this lack of parity. The VCs don't need poo poo in SFO, they're probably the strongest faction in the mod out of the gate. Vampires are even more dangerous than vanilla and magic got buffed out the rear end across the board which is pretty goddamn good when every lord you bring is also a wizard. To give you an idea of the scale of how strong VC are in the mod, in a SFO Empire campaign you will almost inevitably have to deal with a resurgent Drakenhof slaughtering their way through the eastern Empire with multiple stacks in SFO, as opposed to vanilla where they normally sit on their two provinces until something kills them.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:02
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jokes posted:What melts ethereals is their conviction in the glory of the Empire as they sacrifice themselves by the hundred to kill a handful of ghosts. I find it very amusing that the most effective way to kill ghosts is to just Shoot Them More. like seriously, for all the ghosbuster mumbo jumbo at the end of the day the one thing ghosts are allergic to is pounds and pounds of lead poisoning 
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Jun 20, 2017 22:02
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Kanos posted:The VCs don't need poo poo in SFO, they're probably the strongest faction in the mod out of the gate. Vampires are even more dangerous than vanilla and magic got buffed out the rear end across the board which is pretty goddamn good when every lord you bring is also a wizard. Not to mention that Vampire Lords (and heroes I'm assuming) are supernaturally fast on foot, in fact there's probably less incentive to upgrade them to a mount because they're basically like the Flash murdering their way through enemy ranks. It is a bitch to defend against; they're slippery enough to squirt through your checkerboards and wreck havoc on your backlines, and they are good duelists which threaten your own lords/heroes when you try to engage them.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:04
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Panfilo posted:Not to mention that Vampire Lords (and heroes I'm assuming) are supernaturally fast on foot, in fact there's probably less incentive to upgrade them to a mount because they're basically like the Flash murdering their way through enemy ranks. It is a bitch to defend against; they're slippery enough to squirt through your checkerboards and wreck havoc on your backlines, and they are good duelists which threaten your own lords/heroes when you try to engage them. Using SFO atm, and strigori ghoulkings have 66 speed on foot and mauls the poo poo out of my state troop infantry line and any lord and captain I send their way.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:33
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how do you stop them? Just have to focus fire with everything available? Monstrous creatures? Generally I mean, not necessarily Empire only.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:37
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Free company militia, 4 of them will usually deal with a hero. Just run from him while the other 3 shoot. 3 might work but it would be really slow. Basically lots of AP heavily armored units or lots of AP ranged. SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 22:37
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Dandywalken posted:how do you stop them? Just have to focus fire with everything available? Monstrous creatures? Significant amounts of AP ranged fire is the safest bet. Anything going into melee with them besides an equally juiced lord is a dicey proposition.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:03
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Dandywalken posted:how do you stop them? Just have to focus fire with everything available? Monstrous creatures? Ranged focus fire and lots chaff to tie him up. Due to some unfortunate repeated beastmen raiding I had a prolonged lack of crossbowmen. This made vampire lords and heroes really god drat difficult to deal with as the flat trajectory attack of free company militias is not great for dealing with small single model melee monsters tearing through your main battle line. Basically all my battles ended up being played out as described above. The few remaining free company militia with ammo being used to slowly focus down their lords/heroes while my own general tried to get an occasional charge in while at the same avoiding becoming a victim for the game of murder tag.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:06
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