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Paradoxish posted:You're probably picking the wrong person to take this approach with, because I've got posts in the Trump thread arguing exactly this. I'm happy to call individuals out for their lovely opinions that lead them to vote for lovely people, but I don't think you can lay the blame for an election outcome on individual voters at all. But the collective individual voters are the ones who decide the election. Just like the actions of the collective thieves result in higher prices.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:39
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WampaLord posted:If you're mad at someone for being a Trump voter, it's not because their one vote helped him win, it's because it signifies they are an idiot. But yes, getting mad over individual votes is pointless. I'd be mad at someone for stealing because they are a thief (barring the moral necessity scenario depicted in the documentary I linked above). The calculus here isn't complicated.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:41
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Discendo Vox posted:I'd be mad at someone for stealing because they are a thief (barring the moral necessity scenario depicted in the documentary I linked above). The calculus here isn't complicated. Oh, I agree, the "one weird trick, just steal lol!" dude is a total loving shitlord, I'm just responding to his point about voters.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:43
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:But the collective individual voters are the ones who decide the election. All you're really saying here is that problems on a large scale are difficult. The point that I'd argue (maybe? I don't know exactly where you're disagreeing with me, to be honest) is that these aren't problems that you can solve from the bottom-up, by influencing the actions of individuals. You aren't going to convince all thieves everywhere to stop stealing by whining that they're costing you more money. If enough people are stealing for it to be a wide scale problem then there's a reason for that that's larger than any individual thief. That said, I think this is a bad comparison anyway. A core part of the point that I was making is that the there's someone in this interaction (the shop owner) who has drastically more power than anyone else involved. That's not really true of an election that's wholly decided by the collective actions of an electorate.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:43
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You're defending a dude ringing up non organic food while taking organic stock. There is literally no response but to increase price as an owner to meet revenue. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 20, 2017 03:02
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:You're defending a dude ringing up non organic food while taking organic stock. There is literally no response but to increase price as an owner to meet revenue. Also, there's no loving point. Buying organic is essentially useless, and you could easily just buy the non-organic stuff for the price you're already paying. I will pay extra for higher-welfare meat and eggs, though. But if you just ring it through as a lower-priced SKU, that's actively harmful because it decreases the money that the producer makes for making higher-welfare choices.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:14
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:You're defending a dude ringing up non organic food while taking organic stock. There is literally no response but to increase price as an owner to meet revenue. I'm not defending anyone. I haven't been responding to Helio's posts at all because I don't really give a poo poo what he does. I do think stealing is lovely (and even said so a few posts back), but I also don't really care about some random guy on the internet who does it.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:19
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PT6A posted:Also, there's no loving point. Buying organic is essentially useless, and you could easily just buy the non-organic stuff for the price you're already paying. Organic is pure Virtue Signaling. You buy organic to show that you're the type of person who buys organic.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:19
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Capitalism is dying here in the west. Big box stores and the malls they support are a major bubble waiting to burst. It's going to be bad - worse than 2008 bad.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:48
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Xae posted:Organic is pure Virtue Signaling. I don't know about this. The people I know who buy organic actually buy into the propaganda. There's a lot of ambiguous chatter about "toxins", "no nutrient value foods", and "chemicals". It all sounds loving loony but the people I've come in contact with who buy that stuff aren't trying to signal that they're in a certain socioeconomic status or that they're a good person or whatever. They legit think they're making an informed decision to eat better foods.
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Jun 20, 2017 04:56
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Great Metal Jesus posted:I don't know about this. The people I know who buy organic actually buy into the propaganda. There's a lot of ambiguous chatter about "toxins", "no nutrient value foods", and "chemicals". It all sounds loving loony but the people I've come in contact with who buy that stuff aren't trying to signal that they're in a certain socioeconomic status or that they're a good person or whatever. They legit think they're making an informed decision to eat better foods. This. There's been tons of essentially false marketing telling people that organic is better.
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Jun 20, 2017 05:12
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The organic fruit and granola market near my house sells double gloucester cheese with chives in it, the local Vons doesn't. That is literally the only reason I shop there on occasion.Owlofcreamcheese posted:Here is some advice from reddit how to shoplift better: https://thefpl.us/episode/217 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 20, 2017 05:31
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Septic Tank Gulag posted:Capitalism is dying here in the west. Big box stores and the malls they support are a major bubble waiting to burst. It's going to be bad - worse than 2008 bad. People are buying stuff online instead, malls dying say little about capitalism.
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Jun 20, 2017 05:58
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Peachfart posted:People are buying stuff online instead, malls dying say little about capitalism. Maybe the "worse than 2008" is the jobs that will be slain
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Jun 20, 2017 06:01
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Great Metal Jesus posted:I don't know about this. The people I know who buy organic actually buy into the propaganda. There's a lot of ambiguous chatter about "toxins", "no nutrient value foods", and "chemicals". It all sounds loving loony but the people I've come in contact with who buy that stuff aren't trying to signal that they're in a certain socioeconomic status or that they're a good person or whatever. They legit think they're making an informed decision to eat better foods. People 100% do not realize that "Organic" means basically absolutely none of the things they think it does. I also want GMO food but now all these food products say GMO-free and I'm worried its going the way of God's own chosen flavoring agent MSG.
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Jun 20, 2017 06:12
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Barudak posted:People 100% do not realize that "Organic" means basically absolutely none of the things they think it does. Yeah people seem to think "organic" and "no GMOs" is like the difference between free-range eggs and battery farmed ones.
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Jun 20, 2017 06:17
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i'm organic
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Jun 20, 2017 14:22
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Amazon just announced a new clothing feature called "Amazon Wardrobe." You can pick clothes off of Amazon, pay nothing upfront, try them on, and send them back for free. You are only charged for the clothes if you don't send them back within 8 days. You can have up to 15 items out at once and you get discounts on the items you decide to keep. https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/amazon-prime-wardrobe/
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Jun 20, 2017 16:37
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TBH I hate shopping for clothes on Amazon because there is too much choice.
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Jun 20, 2017 16:44
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Septic Tank Gulag posted:Capitalism is dying here in the west. Big box stores and the malls they support are a major bubble waiting to burst. It's going to be bad - worse than 2008 bad. Did you reg just to post this? Lol
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Jun 20, 2017 17:22
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Amazon just announced a new clothing feature called "Amazon Wardrobe." So if I send everything back and then just order another box I can have my own rent-a-swag scheme going? Imma bout to order 15 Trilbys and just swam em out.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:31
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ziggurat posted:i'm organic Prove it.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:08
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If you could go back in time to a Virgin Megastore, you could peel the 30% off sticker from something and put it on another thing and the person would ring it up like that. Also, one time I was hanging out with a goon friend, and I took 5 Akira Kurosawa samurai movie DVDs, along with the english Office DVDs, to the counter. The guy at the desk demagnetized all of them, then got confused while ringing up the Office DVDs, which were on sale together, charged me for just them, and then bagged all 7 DVDs. I thanked him and walked out with the bag. I'm not sure whether I was stealing or fighting the system or taking advantage of my lucky situations but Virgin Megastore and my friend are both dead.
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Jun 21, 2017 07:30
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This thread keeps going on and on about how superior urban shopping and urban living is but completely ignores the fact of how expensive it is. There's not a country in the earth where living in the big city will make up 30% or less of your rent. Most americans who live in big cities pay 50% or more of their income in just rent. It's even worse in other countries like Canada and even the undeveloped world. And I'm not even talking about house ownership. Which is impossible in a urban city for anyone but the richest of the rich. You all poo-poo the suburban lifestyle but for anyone who wants to own a home or have children - or have any kind of reasonable savings or achieve anything meaningful with their life there is literally no way to do it in big urban cities without literally being a rape & plunder capitalist masterlord who likes killing peasants for fun. Added to this the average income and wages of all these large urban countries like the UK and most of Europe is significantly lower than the US. Why would I give a gently caress about living in a New York City when my rent alone will cost me nearly $2000-$3000 a month when a mortgage on a nice suburban house in a midwestern or southern city will run me half of that?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:38
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:There's not a country in the earth where living in the big city will make up 30% or less of your rent. Our apartment in Boston is 17% of our household income.  ISeeCuckedPeople posted:
Uh lol no, it's easy to pay $1000 a month or less for a 2 br, even a 3 br depending on the part of the city you look at. It just won't be in the absolute most trendy districts which suck to live in anyway.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:43
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I'm still going to poo poo on suburban living even if you do pay half your income in rent(which coincidentally my rent is near half my net income) as being terrible. My friend and I were actually in NYC Monday talking about this, "There's a reason you don't see too many crazy evangelicals or gently caress you, got mine libertarians even in the wealthy part of the here or at home(New Haven), and its because they actually have to deal with and interact with all kinds of people, not live in some homogenous suburban bubble"
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Jun 21, 2017 18:02
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My friend lives right in NYC and is a lawyer making good six figures and his rent is like $1300. He's paying less rent than me in a small canadian town but making like 5x as much money. Big cities are great if you have a profession that can take advantage of the high wages there. My friend who was working retail in his small town only to move to Toronto because "more opportunities" and worked retail there for the same money but like double the cost of living is crazy though. Go where you can get the best job and best quality of life. For some people that's a smaller town, for others they need to be somewhere like London or NY. Also suburban houses are only cheap due to massive subsidies and tax breaks, directly or indirectly paid for by the cities.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:06
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Amused to Death posted:My friend and I were actually in NYC Monday talking about this, "There's a reason you don't see too many crazy evangelicals or gently caress you, got mine libertarians even in the wealthy part of the here or at home(New Haven), and its because they actually have to deal with and interact with all kinds of people, not live in some homogenous suburban bubble" LOL if you believe this. Where do you think Donald Trump is from anyways?
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Jun 21, 2017 18:08
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Baronjutter posted:My friend lives right in NYC and is a lawyer making good six figures and his rent is like $1300. He's paying less rent than me in a small canadian town but making like 5x as much money. Big cities are great if you have a profession that can take advantage of the high wages there. Your friend has 3 roommates, is living in a rent controlled building from the 70s in his grandmothers name, is living in a room smaller than most walk in closets, or is lying. They make beds smaller than twin size for rooms that small.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:25
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Double post. Or he lives 90 min away.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:26
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I was paying less in rent to live in a nice area of Los Angeles than I am right now to live in a lovely part of Florida.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:32
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Lote posted:Your friend has 3 roommates, is living in a rent controlled building from the 70s in his grandmothers name, is living in a room smaller than most walk in closets, or is lying. He's in a pretty nice looking spacious 1br in harlem, rent controlled of course, got lucky. My 2br is $1400 a month, when we first started renting it was only $1100 but there's basically no tenants rights where I live (landlords all found one weird trick to get around them all) so rent has gone up about $100 a year. A 2br just went for $1600 in our building so rip our finances next year. We're still managing the 1/3 rule but it's going to be tight if they keep putting it up $100 or more a year. My friends lucked out and found a huge 2br half-a-house for $1200 with a yard and everything. Old lady landlord who had the same previous tenants for like 20 years so wasn't sure what to raise the rent to, so score for them, and she doesn't know the one weird trick so they actually signed a proper tenant agreement without loopholes. Standard 2br rent in town seems to be around $1300-$2000 now  Wages are down/stagnant as well. Local retail blames ((BIKE LANES)) for all their sales decreases over the last years though, can't possibly be skyrocketing rents and cost of living. Super luxury stores are doing well, nothing else is though.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:32
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Amused to Death posted:I'm still going to poo poo on suburban living even if you do pay half your income in rent(which coincidentally my rent is near half my net income) as being terrible. My friend and I were actually in NYC Monday talking about this, "There's a reason you don't see too many crazy evangelicals or gently caress you, got mine libertarians even in the wealthy part of the here or at home(New Haven), and its because they actually have to deal with and interact with all kinds of people, not live in some homogenous suburban bubble" Lol if you don't think that wealthy people who live in cities don't live in their own peculiar type of bubble, I don't know what to tell you
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Jun 21, 2017 18:34
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silence_kit posted:Lol if you don't think that wealthy people who live in cities don't live in their own peculiar type of bubble, I don't know what to tell you Ill take my wealthy city neighborhoods even if they are in their own bubvle that still voted almost 90% Democratic vs the upper income Trump voting suburbs a quick drive away. And lol for someone trying to point to Donald Trump as a rule vs an exception.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:41
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Baronjutter posted:
This is completely false. It's because the land is low value and it's inherently just plain cheap to build a normal house these days, Far less labor is really needed than there used to be. It's not like a 4 bedroom house 20 miles out of the city was going to be worth millions of dollars without your mythical "subsidies" and "tax breaks" that somehow apply to land value and building costs on it.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:47
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:This thread keeps going on and on about how superior urban shopping and urban living is but completely ignores the fact of how expensive it is. The thing about NYC and environs is, due to the rail network, even suburbs are setup with mixed use cores around the train stations so you have these mini cbd's all over the place that have walkability. Also, you're making the mistake that the 50's era suburban 'American Dream (tm)' is the only mode that is actually valid. Same thing with automatically wanting to own property. Also...on that last sentence. Honestly? For me? The reason I don't get out of here, other than my entire family being from here...is due to me being absolutely loving terrified of just about anywhere that isn't this area...in this country. I know this land. I will stay here. Call me provincial but at least I know the cops aren't going to take my head off because I drifted into the wrong neighborhood. Then again, even though I'm technically classified as white by the Census Bureau, you're not mistaking me for a white guy...and neither are the police and that's what matters. TyroneGoldstein fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:48
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The people that live out in the suburbs or the sticks to save on rent usually spend a fair amount of time commuting. Does the upkeep on a car count? What about time? Pissing away two hours a day behind the wheel sounds like a poo poo deal. Doesn't matter anyways. That sort of thing isn't really an option for the average slob with a job. Rent in a small town might be 'cheap' for a professional, but it's still a lot of money if you're hourly. Not a lot of people building apartments out here, and since there's less density, there are fewer places to live.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:51
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fishmech posted:This is completely false. It's because the land is low value and it's inherently just plain cheap to build a normal house these days, Far less labor is really needed than there used to be. Those cheap houses couldn't exist without the infrastructure, mortgage write-offs, and thousands of little zoning policies, tax codes, and subsidies that keeps sprawl sprawling. If sprawl had to not just pay for its immediate infrastructure, but the increased load on local highways, and the long term maintenance for all that infastructure (their property taxes are usually artificially low and don't result in the area "breaking even") they would suddenly not be such a good deal. http://grist.org/cities/starving-the-cities-to-feed-the-suburbs/ https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/ http://www.reimaginerpe.org/node/27 http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/smart-growth-working-families/subsidies-and-sprawl
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Jun 21, 2017 18:59
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Baronjutter posted:Those cheap houses couldn't exist without the infrastructure, mortgage write-offs, and thousands of little zoning policies, tax codes, and subsidies that keeps sprawl sprawling. Yes they would. They'd simply be a little less appealing. You're really ignoring how a lot of these developments get built ahead of any real infrastructure improvement, and just kinda hope the improvement will come later - the developer only cares about selling to an initial wave of suckers and washing their. And further, many of them don't actually have any advantageous tax setups or anything in the way of a coherent zoning policy designed to make them "better" for building residences. The land and houses would be worth less and cost less without all the things you're bitching about, because they would be less appealing. If you were to magically remove all the things you claim to hate, suburban housing would become significantly cheaper to buy. Instead, the services and infrastructure provided make the land and houses worth a lot more.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:02
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:The people that live out in the suburbs or the sticks to save on rent usually spend a fair amount of time commuting. Does the upkeep on a car count? What about time? Pissing away two hours a day behind the wheel sounds like a poo poo deal. A lot of people work in the suburbs. Suburbs are not sticks though. Also owning a car is probably cheaper currently than any time in history. I got a Honda Hybrid from 2011 for Less than $8,000 and it gets 45 miles to the gallon. That's a $200 monthly payment and it requires little maintenance, probably less than $1,000 a year if that. Just regular oil changes and new tires every 4 years and new brakes every 1 or 2. I just completed the 100k maintenance and that cost maybe $100.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:08
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