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I think with the Diane/Coop thing the truth may be somewhere in the middle. It could be that BadCoop did in fact go to Diane and seduce her, which would have been a big deal for Diane if we assume they had a close friendship up to that point. Maybe she realized only afterwards that the man she slept with somehow wasn't the same Coop that she had always known, but never fully confronted that fact until this episode when she meets him again 25 years later. Just because Bob is involved, I don't think we can assume she was raped, remember that BadCoop seems to be very much a distinct entity from Bob. He seems capable of making his own decisions.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:37
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E: ^ This seems far more likely to me than rape. If they met after the events of season two, then I imagine this to be the most likely scenario.Franchescanado posted:Uh, yes. The end of the original run he pretends to be Good Coop. They've already said in Season 3 that after he regained consciousness, he visited Audrey and then he left the town quietly. Seems pretty obvious he was being low-key and pretending to be Good at least until he left town. They don't even mention him injuring his head or anything. Everyone remembering Coop says "Yeah, he just quietly left." From what Doc Hayward said about him, he acted nothing like Coop. He left Annie, the woman he went into the Lodge to save, in a coma in her hospital bed. Similar goes for Audrey, apparently. He didn't say a word to anybody, and left town like a whisper. quote:Not "Yeah, he acted like a loving crazed lunatic and shot people in the face while stealing a car and talking backwards." 1) In the first two seasons (and FWWM) BOB never did crazy poo poo in broad daylight - he always acted when he knew he could get away with it. 2) Mr. C has yet to do any dastardly deeds out in the open where normal people can see him doing it. Always covert. The only thing he did - which could still be construed as coincidence - was his phone call that made the prison go nuts. But that was to get the warden's attention along with mentioning "Mr. Strawberry." 3) Because he apparently didn't speak before leaving Twin Peaks, him speaking backwards isn't entirely relevant. More likely that he did so in that one scene because he was worn out from puking garmonbozia recently and his true nature was bubbling to the surface.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:39
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Shibawanko posted:I didn't get any of this by the way, can somebody explain what was going on with the fingers thing? JazzFlight posted:If you don't think the exaggerated way she swings her hips and says even basic stuff like "look at this" as if she's a hot teacher in "After School Babes 5" then I don't know what to tell ta.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:44
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Basebf555 posted:I think with the Diane/Coop thing the truth may be somewhere in the middle. It could be that BadCoop did in fact go to Diane and seduce her, which would have been a big deal for Diane if we assume they had a close friendship up to that point. Maybe she realized only afterwards that the man she slept with somehow wasn't the same Coop that she had always known, but never fully confronted that fact until this episode when she meets him again 25 years later. I think this is a valid assumption too. And yes, EvilCoop is swperate from Bob, or an extension of Bob, but he is still the antithesis of Coop, so I think he's capable of anything that would create pain and chaos for others. TheMaestroso posted:E: ^ This seems far more likely to me than rape. If they met after the events of season two, then I imagine this to be the most likely scenario. For the first part, Bad Coop's actions are noticeably different to Coop, but he was still pretending to look and sound like Coop. The second part I was facetiousky exaggerating, which I thought was obvious.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:46
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Escobarbarian posted:Y'all are very wrong and bad at reading obvious context in television. The amount of hoops you have to jump through to say "well no Diane is just mad at the FBI for not telling where Coop went and then the terrified, shaken reaction to him threateningly mentioning a night they spent together is based on something she did with Good Coop!" is utterly ludicrous.
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Jun 20, 2017 18:51
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love those Horne brothers
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Jun 20, 2017 18:51
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Cromulent posted:No you see, it's just "goons are obsessed with rape." It's way more likely that good -real-cooper insulted her cooking or something. hahaha yeah this is the poo poo I hate the most too. also here's a good article http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/06/twin-peaks-episode-7-diane-meets-cooper-sexual-assault-rape-audrey-horne?intcid=inline_amp
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Jun 20, 2017 18:54
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I mean, he could have gone to Diane's house to get something coop left with her and been a total dick about it
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Jun 20, 2017 19:05
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It really sounded like rape to me
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Jun 20, 2017 19:06
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JazzFlight posted:Just pointing out that woman's name was Lorraine. Tammy is the porny FBI agent. Whoops, fixed. I think I watched a recap video that also got it wrong and screwed me up. TheMaestroso posted:I doubt this, not just because we don't actually know when she last met with Coop, but because she reacts to seeing and talking Mr. C in such a way that implies she's never seen him before - that this man is not Dale Cooper. Prior to this scene she refers to Cooper as normal, which implies that he wasn't a soulless entity parading around in his body. My thought on this is that the last time they met was prior to Dale being sent to Twin Peaks, because that would've been the last chance she had to see the real Dale. Not only that, but she seems to have had feelings for him and felt betrayed when he never spoke to her again for 25 years; her attitude toward the mention of his name was enough to (essentially) tell Albert to gently caress off immediately. I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree. When Albert finds Diane and mentions Cooper he is immediately aggressive. She's aggressive to Cole and Albert until Cole slightly cools her down, and is back to being aggressive with Tammy, who has no idea who Cooper is and couldn't possibly know how bad BadCoop hurt Diane. Diane's self-medicating on the plane to steal herself to look at him again and she clearly doesn't want to be in another situation with him where she feels powerless. Here's what I think happened: BadCoop comes out of the Black Lodge as Cooper's doppelganger. Every believes that this is Cooper, just a little worn down from his time... wherever. The Waiting Room, the Lodge, they don't know. They take him to the hospital. BadCoop acts on one of Cooper's repressed desires while Audrey is in a coma. He leaves and begins to vanish, but not without leveraging some of Cooper's connections. This involves Diane. BadCoop goes to Diane's home. Diane does not immediately notice a difference between her boss and the doppelganger. He assaults her and leaves, perhaps with a threat of retaliation if she reports it to the FBI or police. Diane spends the next 25 years believing that Cooper attacked her and betrayed her trust. She doesn't want to see him again and is happy he's in prison. When she does see him, she sees a BadCoop who's stopped trying to pretend. BadCoop doesn't remember how Cooper talks aside from a few mannerisms. The way BadCoop talks is also a big indicator of sexual assault, not exactly relishing in it but reminding Diane that it happened and it can never be undone. Diane, helped along by Gordon telling her that Cooper has changed, can see that the Cooper she worked for isn't the man in front of her and isn't the man who came to her house. I don't mean to beat the rape drum, but BadCoop traumatized Diane. We can't say that BadCoop is evil personified but then say he wouldn't rape someone because that's too horrible an act. Twin Peaks has been steeped in sexual violence since the beginning; it can't shy away now. fe: This took me forever to write with many interruptions. Sorry if the conversation has moved on.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:08
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Maybe it's just me, but I feel like Lynch having one of his favorite actors and good friends assuming the role of a character that fans have been waiting to see forever and then making her presence in the show reduced to "the bad Coop doppelganger raped her" is gross and awful.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:10
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I'm with you LawfulWaffle. Come on, one of the first things we learn aboiy Laura Palmer in episode 1 is that she's been raped, possibly by multiple people. Also Blue Velvet, Wild At Heart, Lost Highway all include sexual assaults. It's not new territory for Lynch.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:14
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Is Sherilyn Fenn returning?
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Jun 20, 2017 19:14
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TheMaestroso posted:Maybe it's just me, but I feel like Lynch having one of his favorite actors and good friends assuming the role of a character that fans have been waiting to see forever and then making her presence in the show reduced to "the bad Coop doppelganger raped her" is gross and awful. Lynch has her character raped by her father's best friend and then seduced by a different rapist in Wild At Heart, so... Edited for clarity Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 19:15
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LawfulWaffle posted:I don't mean to beat the rape drum, but BadCoop traumatized Diane. We can't say that BadCoop is evil personified but then say he wouldn't rape someone because that's too horrible an act. Twin Peaks has been steeped in sexual violence since the beginning; it can't shy away now. I actually think it just works better if BadCoop seduced Diane under false pretenses, even if that's not much of a distinction. It makes their relationship that much more complex, that Coop and Diane probably had unspoken feelings for each other before then.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:25
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If u think there's a reality in Mulholland Drive I will gently caress you up
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Jun 20, 2017 19:29
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Basebf555 posted:I actually think it just works better if BadCoop seduced Diane under false pretenses, even if that's not much of a distinction. It makes their relationship that much more complex, that Coop and Diane probably had unspoken feelings for each other before then. Yeah, it's horrific to think she consented, and then during he became violent, like DeNiro in Cape Fear with the assistant.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:30
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Franchescanado posted:Lynch has her character raped by her father's best friend and then seduced by a different rapist in Wild At Heart, so...
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Jun 20, 2017 19:34
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Franchescanado posted:Yeah, it's horrific to think she consented, and then during he became violent, like DeNiro in Cape Fear with the assistant. Or possibly that he just used her for sex, then maybe said something to her as he was leaving that was so cruel that she instantly knew deep down that it wasn't him. But something subtle enough that she lived the whole 25 years with doubts; doubts that were erased instantly when she spoke with him in this episode.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:35
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Kulkasha posted:He loses Annie and is forced to enter the most dangerous thing in existence to try to save her (and fails - the Lodge arbitrarily spits her back out, not Cooper). Cooper is forced to obey Earle and is clearly saved in this regard by BOB getting mad. He then fails to stand up to his shadow and is lost for 25 years. That's pretty clearly a failure. This is from ages ago, but I'm finally catching up with Twin Peaks. Did Desmond end up going to the lodge? His uncertain and arbitrary exit from FWWM was one of the things I found lacking in the film, didn't see anything suggesting he did. And didn't Jeffries escape? We're given clues that he has (only just finished ep 5).
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Jun 20, 2017 19:37
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Basebf555 posted:Or possibly that he just used her for sex, then maybe said something to her as he was leaving that was so cruel that she instantly knew deep down that it wasn't him. But something subtle enough that she lived the whole 25 years with doubts; doubts that were erased instantly when she spoke with him in this episode. "That was yrev very good"
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Jun 20, 2017 19:38
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Shageletic posted:And didn't Jeffries escape? We're given clues that he has (only just finished ep 5). I'm not sure if its clear yet(I'd have to rewatch every episode) whether or not he actually is out in the world or if he's communicating with BadCoop from inside the Lodge.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:43
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This is why I love TV/IV.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:43
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Franchescanado posted:Uh, yes. The end of the original run he pretends to be Good Coop. They've already said in Season 3 that after he regained consciousness, he visited Audrey and then he left the town quietly. Seems pretty obvious he was being low-key and pretending to be Good at least until he left town. They don't even mention him injuring his head or anything. Everyone remembering Coop says "Yeah, he just quietly left." Not "Yeah, he acted like a loving crazed lunatic and shot people in the face while stealing a car and talking backwards." There's also the scene in 3.2 or 3.3 where Albert says that Cooper reached out to him about their man in Argentina. So it's clear that BadCoop doesn't have a problem pretending to be Cooper when it fits his interests. He hasn't been using an assumed name, either. When the FBI comes to visit him in prison, he tries to use Cooper's relationship with Gordon and Albert to get free, although I suspect that he does this more to keep up an illusion than for any real chance at freedom. BadCoop enters prison with an escape plan; he doesn't need the FBI's help. Going along with the assumption that Richard Horne is the product of BadCoop's last encounter with Audrey, he shares at least part of his father's reckless hedonism. Right away he's making disconcerting joke/statements about raping girls to their faces in a public place. He's clearly unhinged, possibly due to the influence of drugs but equally likely due to the influence of tainted genetic code. Perhaps he was raised by proxy parents because his father disappeared and his mother never fully regained her faculties. I think there's a lot of evidence towards a conclusion that some people find too uncomfortable to believe; that's okay, there's a lot of show left to go and we can count of Lynch to keep pitching curve balls. On a more wholesome note, what do you think the deal is with Red(sp?)? The drug dealer who talks to Richard and does the coin trick. Was the magic trick related to Richard's addled state or is Red demonstrating that he isn't constrained by reality? I think that Red is connected to BadCoop, that the drug they are pushing is the same one that the overdose mentioned in one of the early episodes caused, and that it's a link between the real world and the Lodges. I wouldn't be surprised if it's also tied to Jean-Reno's "grade A whores" in the same way that Laura takes a drug before "entertaining" in FWWM. I forget the names, but that kid who gets told off by Mike for having a lovely resume uses it (or something like it, but I'm trusting Occam's Razor here and believing there's only own snorting drug this season) to keep a much more attractive girl attached to him. Red says that the drug comes from over the border, and while we immediately assume that he means from Canada that doesn't have to be the case. We know there is more than one border in the area. He could also be the terrorizing force that causes the owner of the truck Richard was driving to be afraid of talking to the police, and the same force that makes that man disappear. I don't buy that Richard would inspire that much fear in an adult male, but a jerking magic man with armed muscle would do the trick. I don't know, I think that Red's going to be an important player in understanding BadCoop's master plan.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:44
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ZeeBoi posted:"Hey! Has anybody seen Bing?"
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Jun 20, 2017 19:46
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Solice Kirsk posted:This is why I love TV/IV. The wait between seasons of Breaking Bad when that camera angle made it seem like Jesse had moved the gun away from Gale's face was probably my favorite t.v. thread of all time.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:47
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Mine was the "those salt stains on the cars aren't real" debate in The Office thread. Sure, the "I acquit" one gets more attention, but the salt one was a lot nastier.
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Jun 20, 2017 19:51
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They're not cannibals argument in walking dead was good Same with the Glenn in a dumpster saga
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Jun 20, 2017 19:52
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Baloogan posted:its a stretch, but ike and the arm loving Mike and Ike lmao
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Jun 20, 2017 19:53
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LawfulWaffle posted:On a more wholesome note, what do you think the deal is with Red(sp?)? Basebf555 posted:The wait between seasons of Breaking Bad when that camera angle made it seem like Jesse had moved the gun away from Gale's face was probably my favorite t.v. thread of all time. Nothing will ever top "Mike's voice."
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Jun 20, 2017 19:53
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Cromulent posted:Nothing will ever top "Mike's voice." This, and the one where people thought Mike was going to shoot Jesse because his gun swept past him in a frame People take these little imperfections in the design and treat it as though television is an alien documentary to be scrutinized. It's like the plot to Galaxy Quest
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Jun 20, 2017 20:24
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Whatcha need? I've got a 4K monitor and I've been screencapping a bunch of stuff from Showtime Anytime on my PC. Does anyone have a cap of the endless ocean? That's gotta be my new background, it spoke to me on a lot of different levels.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:32
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Shageletic posted:Does anyone have a cap of the endless ocean? That's gotta be my new background, it spoke to me on a lot of different levels.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:45
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Do you remember about when that was? I just scrubbed through all of episode 7 and didn't see it. Episode 3, about 15 minutes in, I think.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:46
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I need a cap of Truman staring up at his wife, so I can post it in response to every theory over three paragraphs long in this thread.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:48
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hawowanlawow posted:I need a cap of Truman staring up at his wife, so I can post it in response to every theory over three paragraphs long in this thread. Seems like it'd be useful in other threads too.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:54
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Now that I'm caught up on this thread, I want to talk about my favorite thing from part 1&2. Every time the episode got close to giving the viewer the standard "premium cable boobs", something horrible happened. The kids in the glass box room got torn apart by a monster, the lady bad coop kills is in full fanservice regalia when he kills her in cold blood, and then he goes next door to another women whom he initiates a sex scene with in possibly the creepiest way I've ever seen. In the first episode, at least, it seemed like David Lynch really wanted to punish anyone who was tuning into premium cable just to see boobs. Jade in Part 3 kinda undercuts that a little bit but then in that scene with her at the carwash they really seem to push home the point that a sex worker is just a normal person with a normal life and if you have any kind of conscience you should feel a little gross if you oggled her in her first appearance. There were sporadic posts going "drat, coffee girl in the glass box room looking fine" and all I could think was "way to miss the point". To me it feels like Lynch has really digested some of the criticisms about how he uses the female body in film and is responding in the show. Even when he and Albert are talking about Tammy after she leaves the room it feels like you're not supposed to think that their talk is harmless (especially after the dressing down he gets from Denise). The whole show has been a home run for me so far, but I really appreciated him setting that tone in the first episode, that feeling that the Showtime execs were like "you need some gratuitous sex in here" and his response was to stroke the monkey's paw in his pocket.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:57
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Franchescanado posted:Episode 3, about 15 minutes in, I think.
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Jun 20, 2017 20:57
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Wait the section when Coop is with the woman with no eyes before he goes through the electrical outlet? I see him in space (when Major Briggs' head floats past) but no ocean... The ocean is right before he walks into the room with the woman with no eyes. He stares at the ocean for a while, then walks through the door into the room with her, then the section you're talking about happens.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:02
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Wait the section when Coop is with the woman with no eyes before he goes through the electrical outlet? I see him in space (when Major Briggs' head floats past) but no ocean... Before this, when he first arrived outside the purple room, he's on like a balcony overlooking this endless ocean.
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Jun 20, 2017 21:03
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