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Reading a bit of Dale Cooper's book, this jumped out at mequote:Dad has just plugged me into the wall socket next to the aquarium with the extension cord from the basement and I am now making my first trip out of the house with the recorder strapped into my scout pack. Mom is now opening the door, I'm stepping through, and am now on the porch. . . . You may now close the door! . . . The door is closed, I am on my own. just me, the recorder, and the extension cord, which I will call the tether of life. One step too far and I will lose all power. He's talking about his recorder which he takes everywhere. Haven't read any of the other written materials for Twin Peaks or much of this one either, so if anyone has any intersting stuff from there I always find it fun to read.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:55
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| # ? May 14, 2024 23:21 |
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cis autodrag posted:Especially with such a close relationship as Cooper and Diane there are all sorts of things evil Coop would have done that felt like a huge betrayal to her. When you know someone extremely well, you know all the little things that cut them deep. A good person knows them to carefully step around them, but the dark version of a person might use them to hurt instead.. Yea that's where I'm at with it. I'm imagining a scenario like if James Bond's evil twin went to Moneypenny's house and told her that he had just been bullshitting her all these years, she's actually an ugly, annoying woman who is worthless and nobody gives a poo poo about her. BadCoop may have done something like that on purpose as a way to get Diane to stop looking for him. Since he has all of original Coop's memories he'd know that Diane might be the only person that would simply never give up on trying to find him unless she was given a reason not to. Of course, sexual assault may have still been involved but I don't think that's obvious at this point.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:55
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Yes, she quit her job and became a bitter, angry alcoholic who is still shaken 25 years later because Coop told her he actually didn't like her very much like, it's really hard not to be kind of a dick when the alternate theories presented in this thread are so wobbly and stretching
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Jun 21, 2017 16:59
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Why should we assume that she's a bitter alcoholic because of what Coop did to her? 25 years is a long time.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:00
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Holy poo poo a Ghana poster for TP
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Jun 21, 2017 17:03
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Basebf555 posted:Why should we assume that she's a bitter alcoholic because of what Coop did to her? 25 years is a long time. Well, you don't have to, but then you just get back to the whole "missing obvious context clues" discussion. Do you honestly think it's more likely they made her a bitter alcoholic for a reason that has nothing to do with the series, and then just have whatever Coop did as separate?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:04
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Escobarbarian posted:Well, you don't have to, but then you just get back to the whole "missing obvious context clues" discussion. Do you honestly think it's more likely they made her a bitter alcoholic for a reason that has nothing to do with the series, and then just have whatever Coop did as separate? More likely? I dunno about that but I'd say its a definite possibility. Is it so ridiculous that she could have more dimensions than just "bitter alcoholic rape victim"?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:06
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For all we know Diane is only really like that toward the FBI people and stuff related to Cooper. She does have a partner it looks like, so she's moved on in some sense. I don't think there was rape involved between the two at all.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:15
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As someone who did not get vibes that Diane was violated, and just assumed it was some emotional rift that was painful due to how close they were... However, knowing David Lynch's track record for using rape in his work, I can see it now unfortunately. I hope it isn't because I think it's played out ( especially in his work) and because I don't think he's dealt with it tastefully. The only exception is Laura Palmer during FWWM.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:17
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Looking at the known schedule, it seems we're going to be getting an extra week of waiting between eps 8 and 9 
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Jun 21, 2017 17:21
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Kawalimus posted:For all we know Diane is only really like that toward the FBI people and stuff related to Cooper. She does have a partner it looks like, so she's moved on in some sense. I don't think there was rape involved between the two at all. It's only a short scene, but I took that guy in her apartment as a random hook-up/one night stand. "Yeah. I'll catch you later....Diane...", which was said in a voice insinuating she had given him a different name. Also, Diane smokes Lynch's favorite cigarettes, Yellow American Spirits. It was weird for Gordon to say he quit when Lynch still smokes more than a pack a day.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:22
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Franchescanado posted:It's only a short scene, but I took that guy in her apartment as a random hook-up/one night stand. That's probably right. Sometimes in these things people just talk weird but that makes sense now that you say it. I still don't see any sort of abuse or force being the case here. Just a standard case of them having a close relationship and maybe she always saw it as potentially romantic more than Cooper did, Bad Cooper exploiting that, and it just never healing.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:27
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Kawalimus posted:That's probably right. Sometimes in these things people just talk weird but that makes sense now that you say it. I still don't see any sort of abuse or force being the case here. Just a standard case of them having a close relationship and maybe she always saw it as potentially romantic more than Cooper did, Bad Cooper exploiting that, and it just never healing. I have been friends with and dated girls who have been sexually assaulted/abused. For some, they were only interested in very slow monogamous relationships. Others have huge issues with intimacy and actually prefer one night stands/hook-ups because it involves less intimacy, gives them a feeling of control, or because they think it's all they are capable of. Every person is unique, but I don't think Diane doing random hook-ups completely eliminates that form of abuse. I should be clear that I think that it's more likely Booper did something like that to Diane, but Basebf555's ideas are fine, as are interpretations that Coop just physically assaulted Diane or something like that. Booper slapping Diane is still abuse. I don't think it'd cause her to drink and restart her career, but there's still a lot of negative space to fill in for more firm conclusions. It's the people that think Diane's pissed off because of Good Cooper or that she's broken for some reason other than Booper is incredibly frustrating, because it's like they're not even watching the show.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:37
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I've figured out the classic Lynch twist for this season of twin peaks. The last eight episodes will be all of twin peaks coming together to reenact the events of the season one in an effort to bring back the real dale cooper. the season finale will end on a massive cliffhanger. is the real dale cooper back or is dougie just repeating what hawk said? there will not be another season.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:39
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If only we had evidence of Bob behaving this way in the past....
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Jun 21, 2017 17:46
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cis autodrag posted:I'm really confused why everyone is jumping straight to "bad coop raped her" too. goons are creepy
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Jun 21, 2017 18:04
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^^^^ the worst kind of postFranchescanado posted:It's the people that think Diane's pissed off because of Good Cooper or that she's broken for some reason other than Booper is incredibly frustrating, because it's like they're not even watching the show. Whoa, man, what's with the BAD ATTITUDE
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Jun 21, 2017 18:09
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you need to calm the gently caress down, dude. you are going to have an ayeurism and you yourself called a guy creepy for not liking the idea of Diane being a one dimensional character, accusing them of having a weird thing for Dern hawowanlawow fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 18:11
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What could possibly make you think I'm at all angry about this?
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Jun 21, 2017 18:12
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Escobarbarian posted:What could possibly make you think I'm at all angry about this? DUDE, your attitude is BAD. Here, listen to this. Around minute 3.21 you'll have a full understanding as to why Diane's an alcoholic (hint, Coop never gave her a pony) Check and mate, 
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Jun 21, 2017 18:18
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nopants posted:I've figured out the classic Lynch twist for this season of twin peaks. The last eight episodes will be all of twin peaks coming together to reenact the events of the season one in an effort to bring back the real dale cooper. the season finale will end on a massive cliffhanger. is the real dale cooper back or is dougie just repeating what hawk said? there will not be another season. Season finale: *Every character from every Twin Peaks movie, book and tv show come in with everything for a HUGE party*
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Jun 21, 2017 18:18
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And More posted:Bown, where does this attitude of general unpleasantness come from? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf0ZvY2usbY
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Jun 21, 2017 18:22
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cis autodrag posted:I'm really confused why everyone is jumping straight to "bad coop raped her" too. All we know is that something deeply painful happened between the two of them. That's what's been shown on screen and in their performances. If you genuinely believe the only traumatic thing a man can do to a woman is rape her then you're not being very creative. probably because BOB is a dark spirit whose entire MO is raping people and causing unimaginable suffering idk
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Jun 21, 2017 18:23
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i dont know guys. maybe leland never got violated, maybe it was just really upsetting to have a guy flick matches at him
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Jun 21, 2017 18:27
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People always complain about shows being written to the lowest common denominator, and TV/IV as a microcosm of viewers consistently shows why that's the case. Everyone interprets things through their own lens and life experiences, so you wind up with things like people being confused about whether someone would be more likely to attack someone with a bungie cord or a bike chain or the logistics of hiding in/under a dumpster or because the camera moved a bit for dramatic effect if it meant that someone didn't shoot someone else.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:28
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I think the alternate theories are cute and encourage them all. Personally, I don't know how you can watch BadCoop say "I'll always remember that night" and not immediately know what happened, but I'm not Lynch so I can't be sure about anything.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:30
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Hi, is this TV Tropes?
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Jun 21, 2017 18:31
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This thread rules again
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Jun 21, 2017 18:33
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Thank you for actually recognising my quote.  Are we sure Escobarbarian has actually watched Twin Peaks? Are we only going to be pleasant to one another again once Cooper returns?
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Jun 21, 2017 18:35
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And More posted:Thank you for actually recognising my quote. One of the trailers showed Coop driving a car, so it has to happen at some point!
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Jun 21, 2017 18:37
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If they do an episode where the Arm teaches Dougie how to drive, it'll be my favorite episode of television.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:59
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I think this is the one piece of info available that could somewhat count as AN ACTUAL SPOILER, but Laura Dern mentioned in the Vanity Fair interview that Diane and Coop have conversations about the robins in the show, so we know he'll be back EVENTUALLY.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:00
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So, to get away from rape-chat a bit, a dumb question: what Dougie is, exactly? Badcooper is Cooper doppleganger, but Dougie seems like he was also another copy of Cooper, but not evil, just kinda dumb (I assume he was dumb, since he is now acting totally brainless and people only find it a bit stranger than his normal) And what exactly happened to Cooper when he got back to the real world? I was supposing that Dougie somehow kept Cooper "personhood" (the sum of his memories , experiences and knowledge), and that's the metal ball that was left after Dopugie evaporated in the Lodge. And Cooper seems brainless because he is lacking it now. But that does not makes much sense after what he did last episode
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Jun 21, 2017 19:06
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BadCoop knew(somehow) that the Black Lodge would be pulling him back in, and Dougie was his plan to avoid being the one to have to go. If Dougie hadn't been there to stand in for BadCoop, he'd have been pulled back to the Lodge just like Dougie was. He was a decoy. How exactly BadCoop was able to construct him is anybody's guess, that's not really the kind of thing that typically gets explained in Twin Peaks.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:10
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Escobarbarian posted:This thread rules again I wish you would stop saying this, it's a mostly civil discussion save for the people (like you) jumping in with one line white noise retorts because you disagree Elias_Maluco posted:So, to get away from rape-chat a bit, a dumb question: what Dougie is, exactly? Badcooper is Cooper doppleganger, but Dougie seems like he was also another copy of Cooper, but not evil, just kinda dumb (I assume he was dumb, since he is now acting totally brainless and people only find it a bit stranger than his normal) I imagine that Cooper probably got scrambled when he went through the socket, because he seemed pretty normal before that. Or, it could be that the reason he seemed normal to us is because he'd gotten so used to being in the Black Lodge that he can act like our Coop there now.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:11
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I think Dougie was a decoy to be sucked back into the lodge instead of bad coop. I don't think there's enough information to know how exactly bad coop made Dougie, but Mike said he was manufactured. I don't know if good coops knowledge is the piece of gold or if bad coop has it. Mike said one of them has to die, but I don't know exactly how killing bad coop would fix good coop if good coops essence is in that gold piece. I think the gold might just be clay to make whatever.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:14
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My take on the Dougie thing: There's a theory/idea that every person on earth has doppelgangers** (the most popular number is 7 doppelgangers). So, there are maybe seven other people who could be confused to be you. Coop is pure goodness. Doppel Coop is pure evil. They are the 1 and 7 (or 8). So that means that there are six (or seven) other variations of a "Coop" out there. Dougie lands in the middle, closer to Bad Coop, but not fully evil. Doppel Coop was in the Black Lodge. When he was released, he knew that, due to the cyclical nature of the Lodges (and good, and evil, and zen, etc.) that he started a 25 year count down to return to The Black Lodge. In that time, he tracked down another Coop doppel, a dumb one named Dougie, and set him up to go back to the Lodge. Since Dougie had a weak soul, he got zapped into a pearl, unable to handle the trials of The Black Lodge. In exchange, Coop got to come back to what we know as Earth. Since he looks like a slimmer Dougie, no one notices a difference*. However, the Black Lodge and its residents knows the unbalance. Good Coop and Evil Coop (or good doppel/bad doppel) can not both exist together in the same reality for long. Good Coop was born into our world, and Bad Coop was born from The Lodge. They exchanged their positions, Bad Coop completed his cycle of chaos, and now Good must return. However, Bad Coop and Good Coop being together on the same plain for long is probably bad for Reality. So either one of them must die ("Don't Die! Don't Die!"), or Bad Coop must go back to the Lodge (which is why the Black Lodge residents, despite being amoral or evil, are actively working to help Coop, because it's the only way for them to regain the balance.) I don't think I'm 100% right, but since Lynch is now including Palmastry (the hands speech/spiritual mound from ep 7), and a significance to numbers, I don't think it's far-fetched, especially since almost every Lycnh movie besides Elephant Man includes look-alikes/twins/doppelgangers as a plot or theme. *Thematically, I like the idea that Lynch is playing off the idea that, in our day to day routines, we fail to realize those suffering from mental illness, and instead impersonally interact with each other or ignore these obvious signs because Out of Sight/Out of Mind plus the state of modern mental health awareness and treatment. **The last episode of Season 2, when Dale is going through the rooms of the Lodge, each time he sees a Laura or an Arm, he's really seeing a new Doppelganger of that person. Screaming Laura is not the same as the Laura that greets him. Even in Season 3, we see a "nice" Arm-Tree talk to Coop with Mike in the room, and then an evil Arm doppelganger attacks Coop and screams "EX-TERM-I-NATE". Because The Black Lodge is a plane where everyone is a variation/level of evil, The White Lodge is variations of good, and our Earthly plain is a balanced mix of both, so each plain has their own dopples. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 19:55
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I can't believe Bad Cooper and Diane had a party where they killed and froze Major Briggs and then he never called her after.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:16
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:I can't believe Bad Cooper and Diane had a party where they killed and froze Major Briggs and then he never called her after. I'm not necessarily supporting any theory (although this is a good one), I'm just surprised by someone being so adamant about "it's rape and nothing else and you're all wrong, I know because I've seen a lot of raping on TV in my day and I know a rape victim when I see one."
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Jun 21, 2017 20:37
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Hahah what?? My posts were entirely a response to "obviously it isn't rape he must have just said something mean to her everyone who thinks it was rape is a creep drat creepy idiot goons!!!!!!"
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Jun 21, 2017 20:40
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