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Oh Snapple! posted:i mean it's definitely more that the clintons spent literal decades building a machine that can ultimately win a democratic primary and nothing else, largely through favor trading. that said, when you effectively ARE the institution....yeah, I think it's fair to attribute some poo poo to institutional forces.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:27
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i just want to reiterate that cc posts with an air of authority but he's gotten every major political thing wrong for a while now
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Jun 21, 2017 20:27
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Karl Barks posted:obama brought in a bunch of new voters using leftist rhetoric so i dunno, it does work lf saw thru that hope and change bs from teh beginning lol
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Jun 21, 2017 20:28
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loquacius posted:I will admit my former dislike of Michael Moore might have something to do with the fact that he was most relevant in the 2000s when my own political views were godawful go watch tv nation and the awful truth
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Jun 21, 2017 20:28
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Al! posted:lf saw thru that hope and change bs from teh beginning lol LF would have won
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Jun 21, 2017 20:28
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Karl Barks posted:obama brought in a bunch of new voters using leftist rhetoric so i dunno, it does work soooooort of. he ran on "putting aside the partisanship of the 90s" in the primaries and kind of coasted on his initial opposition to Iraq to beat HRC, then the financial crisis hit and he jutted his chin at the banks, but he was always about bipartisan centrist poo poo in his speeches
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Jun 21, 2017 20:29
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Karl Barks posted:i just want to reiterate that cc posts with an air of authority but he's gotten every major political thing wrong for a while now He also seems to disappear a lot when pressed on specifics, which makes me question his commitment to both concern AND citizenship.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:30
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Montasque posted:
get this: all the fuckwad know-nothing clintonites are citing his ~improvement~ over the fake candidate with $0 who ran against an unbeatable incumbent as evidence that Ossoffication is the correct choice for the party going forward
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Jun 21, 2017 20:31
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concern guarantees citizenship
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Jun 21, 2017 20:31
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Ohio was a) open, b) held once Bernie had established that he was a plausible candidate and the race had gotten competitive (he'd just had the surprise upset in Michigan), yet youth turnout declined relative to 2008
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Jun 21, 2017 20:32
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GalacticAcid posted:soooooort of. seriously: obama's main campaign theme was healing the divisions of Bush's incompetency e: healing the divisions, not addressing the actual problems!
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Jun 21, 2017 20:32
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Ohio was a) open, b) held once Bernie had established that he was a plausible candidate and the race had gotten competitive (he'd just had the surprise upset in Michigan), yet youth turnout declined relative to 2008 we need a new Obama, lol
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Jun 21, 2017 20:33
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Ohio was a) open, b) held once Bernie had established that he was a plausible candidate and the race had gotten competitive (he'd just had the surprise upset in Michigan), yet youth turnout declined relative to 2008 You can always find another reason why a progressive (or a centrist) losing a particular place is anyone's fault but theirs, though. For example, re the above: Ohio is terrible.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:33
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Vox Nihili posted:we need a new Obama, lol pls no
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Jun 21, 2017 20:34
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Boy I wonder why ~the youth~ can be extremely deflated about politics after getting suckered in by a faux-progressive who presided over their lives going to poo poo
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Jun 21, 2017 20:34
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:seriously: obama's main campaign theme was healing the divisions of Bush's incompetency Pretty sure it was Hope and Change.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:35
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i also sort of believe the policies don't matter as much as who is running and the operational competency. that's why it seems weird to me that people say we have to support centrist policies in order to win. i think it's just because thats their prefered policy, they just mask it in that language
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Jun 21, 2017 20:35
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Raskolnikov38 posted:pls no in terms of charisma, youth, & speaking talent if nothing else i mean, obama was really an incredible campaigner
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Jun 21, 2017 20:35
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Rand alPaul posted:Pretty sure it was Hope and Change.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:36
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Oh Snapple! posted:Boy I wonder why ~the youth~ can be extremely deflated about politics after getting suckered in by a faux-progressive who presided over their lives going to poo poo loving young people ugh No money, no hope, no peace...no vote?!? What gives?!?
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Jun 21, 2017 20:36
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:seriously: obama's main campaign theme was healing the divisions of Bush's incompetency i don't remember him really every using that language but okay
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Jun 21, 2017 20:36
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Ohio was a) open, b) held once Bernie had established that he was a plausible candidate and the race had gotten competitive (he'd just had the surprise upset in Michigan), yet youth turnout declined relative to 2008 This is messed up and I'm very disappointed in Ohio. Also, I'd like to thank you for coming to CC's rescue.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:36
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Vox Nihili posted:in terms of charisma, youth, & speaking talent if nothing else and the mainstream dems STILL tried to saddle us with hillary that year too, lmao
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Jun 21, 2017 20:36
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KomradeX posted:Well... are you gonna share or just tease us with that? I'll make a few after work.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:37
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im running on a platform of redundancying out one of the Dakotas, and making Ohio illegal
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Jun 21, 2017 20:37
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Karl Barks posted:i don't remember him really every using that language but okay Anime Schoolgirl posted:i love how neolibs try to retcon campaign obama and pretend that never existed
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Jun 21, 2017 20:37
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Obama inspired people to get involved, convinced them that he was going to give them affordable healthcare, told them he was going to march with them for labor rights. He passed insurance reform that left many of them hanging, ignored one of the largest teacher strikes in recent memory, and when they had the nerve to get involved via Occupy Wall Street he had the government break it up. Oh he also threw a ton of whistleblowers in jail.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:38
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also are we talking about the campaign obama who also said that he was a big Reagan fan cuz i feel like that was a big tell right there
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Jun 21, 2017 20:38
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hmm when i think about the obama 2008 campaign i think about how he used the words healing and division all the time
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Jun 21, 2017 20:39
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Karl Barks posted:hmm when i think about the obama 2008 campaign i think about how he used the words healing and division all the time I do remember this.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:39
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Zhulik posted:This is messed up and I'm very disappointed in Ohio. Also, I'd like to thank you for coming to CC's rescue. Also, kind of hosed up that the overall primary turnout dropped by 45% between 2008 and 2016. What happened there?
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Jun 21, 2017 20:40
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paranoid randroid posted:also are we talking about the campaign obama who also said that he was a big Reagan fan it was but i'd wager a lot of folks involved for the first time missed it.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:40
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also the 2012 campaign was arguably won in the mid west by pushing the auto bailouts. those companies were basically nationalized and they used that poo poo in the ads
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Jun 21, 2017 20:40
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paranoid randroid posted:also are we talking about the campaign obama who also said that he was a big Reagan fan 
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Jun 21, 2017 20:41
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Zhulik posted:Also, kind of hosed up that the overall primary turnout dropped by 45% between 2008 and 2016. What happened there? bush was really really really bad
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Jun 21, 2017 20:41
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Karl Barks posted:there is something so lame about "the resistance" like some hunger games hollywood bullshit that's because it implies that the Dems are plucky underdog heroes fighting against the great evil, rather than a second evil empire which has lost power through its own incompetence also, it's so clearly come out of a focus group for the express purpose of being a #twittermeme. there's no authenticity, and the astroturfers haven't figured out yet that real grassroots movements don't start with a hashtag loquacius posted:yeesh those numbers say the exact opposite to me - Dem numbers almost exactly matched the previous year's, and the only reason the numbers were closer is because GOP turnout was way down instead, the big takeaway is that for all the money they spent, all that campaigning, all that leaning rightward to pick up Republican suburbs, none of it worked. they turned out all the people who voted Dem last year, but they didn't manage to flip any Rs. any Republican that didn't want to vote for Handel just stayed home. in the end, all they managed to do with those tens of millions of dollars was maintain last year's turnout. the whole plan to flip Republicans was a huge failure meanwhile, Tom Price got more votes than Handel literally every single time he ran in GA-06, including the times he ran totally unopposed
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Jun 21, 2017 20:41
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Karl Barks posted:hmm when i think about the obama 2008 campaign i think about how he used the words healing and division all the time Theres no red america or blue america but the united states of america
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Jun 21, 2017 20:43
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suck zone in a frenzy today god dratKarl Barks posted:also the 2012 campaign was arguably won in the mid west by pushing the auto bailouts. those companies were basically nationalized and they used that poo poo in the ads that's a good thing right I can't tell anymore
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Jun 21, 2017 20:43
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Karl Barks posted:i don't remember him really every using that language but okay quote:The challenges we face require tough choices, and Democrats as well as Republicans will need to cast off the worn-out ideas and politics of the past. For part of what has been lost these past eight years can't just be measured by lost wages or bigger trade deficits. What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose — our sense of higher purpose. And that's what we have to restore. quote:This too is part of America's promise — the promise of a democracy where we can find the strength and grace to bridge divides and unite in common effort.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:43
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Zhulik posted:Also, kind of hosed up that the overall primary turnout dropped by 45% between 2008 and 2016. What happened there? Ohio is the worst state north of the mason-dixon line
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Jun 21, 2017 20:43
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