|
my bony fealty posted:Lemme guess, he blames immigrants for his inability to find steady work, his obesity, and his daughter's illness? I know you're just venting here so don't take this the wrong way or anything, but the whole "you're poor because you deserve to be poor" narrative really needs to die no matter which direction it's coming from. 
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 05:09 |
|
|
marshmonkey posted:https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/877617717460836352 Someone sneak in Settlers by J Sakai.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
Skex posted:I grew up on stories from my grandparents talking about their parents saying "we gotta go vote for FDR" because they knew that their literal lives depended on it. Because they lived to see the end result of the unbridled greed of the Right, the New Deal not only created programs that legitimately helped those working people but were in direct response to the devastation that unchecked capitalism wrought. Programs that literally kept people from dying in the streets from exposure and malnutrition. There was a clearly delineated path of cause and effect, voting for Republican's meant you starved, Voting D meant that you got to eat. Not that I disagree with your overall point, and not to lean into a discussion of intraparty policy that belongs better in a much worse thread, but keeping the discussion fairly narrowly tailored to things relevant to Trump and his ascension: "the working class" still does this, just not the white working class. The others get their votes suppressed and their polling places closed. As for the white working class, as much as I would love to see a day when they are motivated to vote by enlightened self-interest, at the moment the right-wing media has a vice grip on them that I just don't know how you shake. Good Policy can only get so far when your messaging is flying into the face of FAKE NEWS, SAD!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:28
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:lies my teacher told me is definitely left leaning but it's not a history text but rather baby's first historiography and historical criticism, the kind of thing you'd give a bookish teenager who dislikes the man but isn't sure why It's important to be aware of the deficiencies in one's education. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HtUnubXAO4 Anything that openly questioning of authority on that list is surprising.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:32
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/JaxAlemany/status/877515143436959744 I love this presidency so much
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:32
|
|
|
ekeog posted:https://twitter.com/JaxAlemany/status/877515143436959744 I'd love for her to show up with like 50 worthless medals pinned to her shirt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:34
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:I know you're just venting here so don't take this the wrong way or anything, but the whole "you're poor because you deserve to be poor" narrative really needs to die no matter which direction it's coming from. Yeah you're totally right, it's just the galling hypocrisy that really gets to me. It's really sad how effective the conservative movement has been at turning (predominantly white) lower income people against those who should be their natural class allies. And it's hard to have sympathy for someone who believes that the bootstraps mentality should apparently apply to everyone else except for them. "The only moral ____ is my _____" and all that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:39
|
|
|
Even if your niece is adversely affected by the ahca you think your brother in law will ever admit it? gently caress no son that's capitulation and retreat and only cowards and losers do that
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:39
|
|
|
ekeog posted:https://twitter.com/JaxAlemany/status/877515143436959744 This is a pretty funny response https://twitter.com/OMAROSA/status/877530933137735680 these people don't understand basic terms
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:40
|
|
|
ekeog posted:https://twitter.com/JaxAlemany/status/877515143436959744 Wait does she actually qualify for that title or not?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
^^^e: to be clear, she doesn't any system of honorifics that gives the green light to "The Honorable Donald J. Trump" for life deserves to be dragged through the mud
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
Yes, she was appointed by the President. This means she gets to use it for life as well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
Skex posted:In the end it comes down to this. You don't take strategy advice from the opposition. Particularly when that advise is to bench your star players.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
my bony fealty posted:Lemme guess, he blames immigrants for his inability to find steady work, his obesity, and his daughter's illness? The problem with this sort of profile is that the GOP's messaging gives him a purpose and self-respect and the Dems doesn't. Which do you think is more palatable: 'It's the fault of immigrants stealing the jobs and driving wages down' or 'you have a right to healhcare and education even if you're a useless fuckup'. Maybe it's true, maybe it's good policy, but it's not a very compelling identity statement.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
Autism Sneaks posted:Honestly any system of honorifics that gives the green light to "The Honorable Donald J. Trump" for life deserves to be dragged through the mud Only until President Harris signs the Damnatio Memoriae Act of 2021, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
Ringo Star Get posted:My niece has Driver Syndrome, a form of epilepsy. My brother in law loves Trump and loves to make fun of my liberal ideals but I hope deep down that he's sweating and feeling loving miserable every damned second of his life because surprise surprise, my nieces condition is expensive to treat and deal with - they're on Medicare to help pay for the monthly hospital visits and tons of medication to just barely keep my nieces seizures under control. The cherry on top is that he is overweight and also struggles to get a full time job so because of that, my sister and my niece live in a lovely area and have a hard time meeting ends meet. Elections have consequences. Trump is all fun and games until he directly impacts your life in a negative way, especially if you lose health insurance coverage. What I think should be made clear is that it's not simply about x number of people losing healthcare coverage, but how it literally impacts everyone including those that have good coverage now. Think about all the friends/families that are going to be supporting each other to try to cover how costly healthcare is in this country. You take away disposable income on such a scale, what do you think that will do to the economy? People have less money to spend when a lot of it is to help those cover expenses. Hopefully Democrats can craft a winnable message on how disastrous the healthcare bill is, but I worry it won't matter until after the effects sink in.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
Autism Sneaks posted:^^^e: to be clear, she doesn't His Excellency.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
Elotana posted:Pelosi is a "star player" for the Dems when they're in power and legislating. During elections she's a drag on every swing district and the fact that Reps are pointing it out doesn't make them wrong. Republicans: We don't like this [nefarious Democratic person] Elotana: Oh my god, they are using [person] against us!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:47
|
|
|
Boon posted:Republicans: We don't like this [nefarious Democratic person] Barack Obama is dragging us all down and must be exiled 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:48
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Yes, she was appointed by the President. This means she gets to use it for life as well. Wrong-o mushmouth, and even if she did, by the same fake rules by which one gets to call themselves "The Honorable", you don't sign off with it in your own letters
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:48
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Yes, she was appointed by the President. This means she gets to use it for life as well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:49
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:I know you're just venting here so don't take this the wrong way or anything, but the whole "you're poor because you deserve to be poor" narrative really needs to die no matter which direction it's coming from. When you're so left you're justifying blaming the Mexicans
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Yes, she was appointed by the President. This means she gets to use it for life as well. I checked, that's just for positions confirmed by the Senate. She wasn't.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
hanales posted:Unrelated but funny. that is a story which is written based on a tweet by the guy linking to the story. The only thing worth noting here is how poo poo the new zealand herald is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
Boon posted:Republicans: We don't like this [nefarious Democratic person]
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Autism Sneaks posted:Wrong-o mushmouth, and even if she did, by the same fake rules by which one gets to call themselves "The Honorable", you don't sign off with it in your own letters The great thing is she's posting a chart about how she is allowed to use it at half a dozen people
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Skex posted:Your concern trolling is noted. What the gently caress are you even talking about? Skex posted:As to your response, Perot gave us the White House in 92, the tech boom retained it in 96, Republican incompetence gave us the White House in 08 and Obama being the bad rear end who saved the economy and killed Osama Bin Laden as well as just being one cool mofo won the White House in 12. The DLC lost us all three branches of government by convincing Hillary that voting for the Iraq War Resolution was a good idea. Because if they hadn't done so Hillary would have been the 44th president and Obama the 45h. Skex posted:The left has a valid point that tacking right has hurt the party more than helping it. This is why the Democrats have lost ground with working people. Not because they care about equality or abortion or are for sensible gun control. It's because they haven't been giving the working class what they really need, The help and support that would motivate them to actually get the gently caress up and vote. Skex posted:I grew up on stories from my grandparents talking about their parents saying "we gotta go vote for FDR" because they knew that their literal lives depended on it. Because they lived to see the end result of the unbridled greed of the Right, the New Deal not only created programs that legitimately helped those working people but were in direct response to the devastation that unchecked capitalism wrought. Programs that literally kept people from dying in the streets from exposure and malnutrition. There was a clearly delineated path of cause and effect, voting for Republican's meant you starved, Voting D meant that you got to eat. And then the boomers took it for granted and ruined everything. Your grandparents' grandparents may have had a moral imperative to vote R to end slavery. Times change and parties change. I'd love to see more left wing legislation, and I think we're going there, but I get a little tired of the whining about Clinton's presidency and "centrism" while holding him to standards that couldn't have existed in the 1990s. Skex posted:The DLC dolts disarmed the political left by buying into the Right's propaganda. For years the Right painted the left as emotional, bleeding hearts who were incapable of rational thought. they'd claim that we argued emotions because we couldn't argue the facts. Over time some on the left started to buy into that argument and focused only on the facts and conceded the emotional appeals. Skex posted:In the end it comes down to this. You don't take strategy advice from the opposition. Particularly when that advise is to bench your star players. Lefties need to learn to lean into GOP attacks and embrace and defend their own. Which may sound weird when I just got finished blasting the Blue dogs for playing into the Republican's hands but there is a difference between having legitimate intra-party debate and doing the enemies dirty work. Are republicans advocating we get rid of Pelosi? I like Pelosi, she did a good job as speaker. I think the party needs a new face to both energize our base, and yes, dull some attacks from the other side. This isn't taking strategy advice from the opposition. I don't even know what you're talking about here. You know the thing about your star players is that eventually you do bench them - they get old and new stars come up. We can't also keep running FDR's corpse for President. I think we need fresh and new both in our congressional leadership, our operations (they should have gone for Ellison!) and at the top of our presidential ticket.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Democrats should get rid of Pelosi because Republicans hate her. They should consult right wing media to see which other Democrats need to be purged. This post is a sarcastic paraphrasing of something several posters itt believe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
Keep in mind the only person republicans hate more than nancy pelosi is paul ryan. They're going to lash out at any person in control. Might as well have someone competent like Pelosi.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
Specifically, Omarosa is posting this chart https://www2.usgs.gov/usgs-manual/handbook/hb/431-2-h/chap4.html from the United States Geological Survey's internal guidelines for addressing people as proof that she's officially The Honorable Omarosa.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 00:59
|
|
|
awesmoe posted:that is a story which is written based on a tweet by the guy linking to the story. The only thing worth noting here is how poo poo the new zealand herald is. The other story is how easy it is to believe that Kellyanne Conway is also all the way up Putin's rear end
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
Elotana posted:I'm waiting to hear a reason why I'm wrong besides "Republicans are saying it." You might be hearing, but you aren't listening. Because multiple posters have already detailed why you're wrong BEFORE you strode up, unbuttoned your onesie pajamas, and poo poo on the keyboard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:01
|
|
|
Quorum posted:Not that I disagree with your overall point, and not to lean into a discussion of intraparty policy that belongs better in a much worse thread, but keeping the discussion fairly narrowly tailored to things relevant to Trump and his ascension: "the working class" still does this, just not the white working class. The others get their votes suppressed and their polling places closed. As for the white working class, as much as I would love to see a day when they are motivated to vote by enlightened self-interest, at the moment the right-wing media has a vice grip on them that I just don't know how you shake. Good Policy can only get so far when your messaging is flying into the face of FAKE NEWS, SAD! The left has to deliver first. It's that simple. that's why I put so much of the current situation at the feet of the Blue Dogs, We wouldn't be having this discussion if the Public Option was a part of the ACA, Removing the Public Option was the poison pill that the health insurance industry put into the legislation. Had the PO been passed and implemented the private insurance industry wouldn't have found it so easy to raise premiums because they'd have to compete with the public option. It would have been irrelevant if they pulled out of the public markets because the public option would have still been there. They rightly recognized it as an existential threat to their very existence. Because insurance is a lovely model for healthcare, Health care works well as a government program because it allows the public to spread the burden across the entire population including those who are healthy. It benefits literally every business that isn't health insurance by removing a huge competitive disadvantage with regards to other industrial nations who have national healthcare. It just isn't given towards insurance because insurance is at it's core gambling with the Insurance company being the house, and we all know how the house works in gambling. In an insurance model premiums are based on risks but risks aren't something that the gamblers can actually control. While sure diet and exercise can help with some health problems the most expensive tend to be pure chance based. With automobiles and homes and other places the insurance model actually functions for the insured can make decisions to mitigate their potential risk. They can buy a cheaper/safer car or house, they can skip having a car or house entirely. If they decide to rent without renters insurance sure a robbery can be devastating but it's something that can be recovered from without external intervention, unlike say cancer. Choosing to forgo health insurance doesn't change the risk one faces when it comes to health problems at all unlike choosing to forgo car insurance by virtue of not having a car. Them blammo you get cancer or some other expensive medical problem you don't have insurance and now you have to convince an insurer to take you on, which they are loath to do because the math is never going to work for them. If they are going to pay out more than they take in it's an automatic loss for them and one that no rational person would take on unless they were forced to. it's a fatal flaw in the insurance model when it comes to healthcare. Another would be a GBI that could take pressure off the working class by ensuring that they have a basic secure income/lifestyle and healthcare. As a added benefit you could even drop ideas like minimum wages because well any wage that someone makes is just gravy and you'd finally have a situation where supply and demand actually set labor rates since the main power imbalance (threat of starvation) would be removed. Give the working class a real legitimate hand up and deliver the loving goods and they'll vote for Democrats again just like they did for FDR. This is what the Democrats should have done in 2009 and it's their failure to do so while bailing out the rich that gave the GOP the boost they needed to take power. I don't know how that will ever happen again, the only hope at this point is that the GOP gently caress things up bad enough for the Democrats to get a wave of sufficient magnitude to take the house in 2018 and the Senate and WH in 2020, and then actually do what needs to be done in order to secure the poor and working class to them. To draw that clear line of cause and effect. It took the GOP the better part of 5 decades to undo it the last time and if the left does it right it will level the financial playing field sufficiently to prevent them from ever having the power to do it again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
FuturePastNow posted:Democrats should get rid of Pelosi because Republicans hate her. I'm not saying it's justified. I'm saying it is what it is. Familiarity breeds contempt. The same poll has her numbers going back to 2005. Look at how the favorables stay constant while almost all the DKs drift to unfavorable. Is this because of Republican propaganda and ratfucking? Sure. But identifying the cause doesn't fix it. If the enemy is saturation bombing an area, you leave. You don't stay there to prove that you're tough.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
I still just can't believe how many insane idiots there are in this country. That so many places are still voting R after this poo poo show is chilling.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I checked, that's just for positions confirmed by the Senate. She wasn't. Ah I thought it was just Presidential appointments.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Tir McDohl posted:The other story is how easy it is to believe that Kellyanne Conway is also all the way up Putin's rear end
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:04
|
|
|
ekeog posted:Specifically, Omarosa is posting this chart https://www2.usgs.gov/usgs-manual/handbook/hb/431-2-h/chap4.html from the United States Geological Survey's internal guidelines for addressing people as proof that she's officially The Honorable Omarosa. i'm getting some serious secondhand embarrassment here
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:05
|
|
|
Elotana posted:Democrats should get rid of Pelosi because voters hate her. As of February she had a net favorability of -25 according to NBC. same but paul ryan http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/paul-ryan-favorable-rating
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 05:09 |
|
|
Every single goddamn discussion about healthcare in this thread always focuses solely on who pays for healthcare and conveniently ignores cost drivers - assuming that a public option magics away any need to contain said costs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2017 01:06
|
|