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R. Mute posted:I don't read this thread often, is this post satire? Nope, there are genuine libertarians, nationalists and national-socialists posting in this thread regularly
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Jun 21, 2017 15:59
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in the article it said mélenchon said "Are we supposed to put up this? it's the french republic here not the holy mary" in reference to the eu flag being present in the national assembly apparently the flag of the eu is inspired by a painting of the holy mary. mélenchon is a bit eurosceptic, but it's not really a new thing
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Jun 21, 2017 16:00
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Spangly A posted:einbauschrank thinks refugees being allowed to go anywhere but the state next door is an abuse, rather than intended outcome, of the human rights convention Which human rights convention? Because we kinda have a lot of those nowadays and IIRC at least the ECMR really does not go that far when it comes to freedom of movement.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:01
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Anyway more important news  the Communist party will have a parliamentaty group in the assembly, independent from Mélenchon's france insoumisethe 11 communist MPs have made an alliance with four overseas MPs the continuity is preserved 
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Jun 21, 2017 16:04
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lost in postation posted:the economic pretext for accepting refugees was always rubbish. Wasn't it how the policy was sold though ?
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Jun 21, 2017 16:11
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Someone posted this in UKMT. Could the Queen stop Brexit?! Bring back absolute monarchy, behead everyone who objects. Badger of Basra posted:Does the top party in Italy still get bonus seats? An M5S government seems like it would be a shitshow. Senate of the Republic: purely proportional system with no bonus seats, cutoff of 8% for each party and 20% for coalitions at national level and 20% at local levels for parties representing linguistic minorities. Chamber of Deputies: proportional with guaranteed 340 seats (55% of total seats) for the party (not the coalition) that gets at least 40% of the vote at national level, cutoff of 3% at national level. The bolded part is important, because it means that even if a party gets a plurality it won't have a guaranteed majority in parliament unless they ally with someone else (or get 40% of the vote, very unlikely).
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Jun 21, 2017 16:33
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Yes we have diffent electoral systems for the Senate and the Chamber. Why? The answer, of course, is  (Quote is not edit.)
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Jun 21, 2017 16:34
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Mikl posted:She's from the FSM Every time I see this acronym (instead of M5S), I think "Flying Spaghetti Monster", and that makes Italian politic posts so much better. Junior G-man posted:Can someone in tune with French politics explain the whole MoDem resignation thing to me? After the whole Fillon mess, people are looking more closely at "fake jobs" -- a type of embezzlement where someone is paid with public money to do something, but they don't do that, instead the money goes to their husband (Penelope Fillon's case) or they do work for a private cause, such as their own party, instead of the job they're officially supposed to be doing. The FN has been found guilty of doing that, and in a recent twist, so does the Modem. Now we have to also mention that Bayrou is a jerk. That doesn't make him the most evil man in French politics (being a jerk is kind of minor offense, all things considered), but it does mean that most of his friends quickly become his enemies because they get fed up with his bullshit. For example, the former Minister of Armies was among the ex-Modem politicians who quickly developed a strong personal dislike for Bayrou, which explains also why she was so quick to jump ship from Modem to EM. Anyway because of the suspicions over embezzlement of public funds by the Modem party, a few high-profile ministers like Ferrand and Goulard decided to resign so that day-to-day government job will not be impaired by the presence of people tainted, even if remotely, by an ongoing scandal; and that put a big pressure on Bayrou to follow suit. Which is a nice consolation prize for people like Goulard, they lose their ministry but they get the satisfaction of taking Bayrou down with them. Kurtofan posted:in the article it said mélenchon said "Are we supposed to put up this? it's the french republic here not the holy mary" in reference to the eu flag being present in the national assembly It's a rumor, since there are two different people who claim to have been the creator of the flag of the Council of Europe (which was later adopted by the European Union, but it was the COE's flag first). - Paul M. G. Lévy who actually was in charge of making a flag for the COE, and who denies any religious inspiration - Arsène Hetz, the one who made the claim he was inspired by depictions of the Virgin Mary as the Woman of the Apocalypse, who wears a crown of stars and is generally associated with Mary, who always wears blue.    Mikl posted:Yes we have diffent electoral systems for the Senate and the Chamber. Why? The answer, of course, is  the senators aren't even elected directly. Though really, when you think about it, if both houses were elected in the same way and by the same people, then what would be the point of having two houses?
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Jun 21, 2017 17:22
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unpacked robinhood posted:Wasn't it how the policy was sold though ? Liberal capitalists use it as an argument, and it's an attractive one to make so it gets adopted by others easily. It is a bad argument, however, because it implicitly erodes the humanitarian argument; if we should be accepting of refugees because they're good for the economy, and it turns out that they're bad for the economy, the person that made the initial argument now has to either back away from supporting a welcoming attitude to refugees, or fall back to the humanitarian argument which renders it secondary. Basically we should be doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because the right thing happens to be useful.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:40
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YF-23 posted:Basically we should be doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because the right thing happens to be useful. So why is Greece doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/29/europe/refugees-prostitution-teenagers-athens-greece/index.html Maybe instead of giving gifts to pensioners the Greek state could actually provide for these people they are obliged to help under international treaties.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:59
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GaussianCopula posted:So why is Greece doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them? Don't worry, the austerity programs you championed for Greece have also turned many Greek women to prostitution as well. You can literally go gently caress Greece if you want.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:25
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GaussianCopula posted:So why is Greece doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them? Oh my loving God this doesn't happen often in these forums but I actually want to go to you and punch you in the face gently caress you, you stupid loving nazi
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Jun 21, 2017 18:28
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personnally i'm glad we're not adding another election to the calendar, senators are fine the way they are, the old farts
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Jun 21, 2017 18:49
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Kurtofan posted:bayrou lol Just listened to his press conference. It's literally "I'm leaving because this is my decision, which I made all by myself, and no one made me do it, it was me and just me"
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Jun 21, 2017 18:55
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^^same the whole "we are a world full of assholes who are mean to me" part was really great.Kurtofan posted:personnally i'm glad we're not adding another election to the calendar, senators are fine the way they are, the old farts
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Jun 21, 2017 18:55
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Toplowtech posted:^^same the whole "we are a world full of assholes who are mean to me" part was really great. same Flowers For Algeria posted:Just listened to his press conference. It's literally "I'm leaving because this is my decision, which I made all by myself, and no one made me do it, it was me and just me" i gotta watch this
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Jun 21, 2017 18:58
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Toplowtech posted:I kind of wish we would move presidential and parliamentary the same days.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:If the president and parliament were the same thing, you'd save an election. Bring back the god drat 4th Republic.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:38
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Just listened to his press conference. It's literally "I'm leaving because this is my decision, which I made all by myself, and no one made me do it, it was me and just me" Heh, did Macron finally see that video where Bayrou is going on about how Macron has no chance, he's just marketing, he's an empty suit, etc? Did Macron pull a Trump and just gave him a post only to remove him as a gently caress you.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:31
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Interesting as always, thanks. But how in the everloving gently caress is anyone at all still prepared to vote for Berlusconi et al?? Italians are still prepared to vote for Mussolini. Italians are basically the Americans of Europe.
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Jun 21, 2017 20:45
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 Europe http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/21/health/vaccines-illness-european-court-bn/index.html
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Jun 21, 2017 21:22
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Orange Devil posted:Italians are basically the Americans of Europe.
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Jun 21, 2017 21:23
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rgocs posted:
We're all living in a badly written dystopian novel. I though this was well recognized?!
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Jun 21, 2017 22:54
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GaussianCopula posted:So why is Greece doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them? Maybe we could just steal all your money and send it all to Tsipras.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:49
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Kurtofan posted:apparently the flag of the eu is inspired by a painting of the holy mary. mélenchon is a bit eurosceptic, but it's not really a new thing He really seems keen on undoing 70 years of amitié franco-allemand and the mutual development of European integration. Not being able to bear the sight of a symbol of the European attempt to overcome lovely nationalism in a national parliament makes you look like a lovely nationalist. It's the kind if stuff you'd expect from UKIP or the AfD. And being an antiliberal euro-sceptic and populistic German basher who likes to tweet dumb stuff definitely places him and his electorate of bitter losers pretty close to Trump and his rustbelt supporters. Even the slogan "Unbowed France" seems to be inspired by "Make Murrica great again". But as you said: that's hardly a new thing. It's a disconcerting new thing, that you can gather support with thls poo poo from the right and the left. Einbauschrank fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 00:45
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GaussianCopula posted:So why is Greece doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them? So why are we in Germany doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them? https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article163570954/Junge-Fluechtlinge-sehen-sich-zur-Prostitution-gezwungen.html quote:Junge Flüchtlinge sehen sich zur Prostitution gezwungen You get a ton of these articles just on the first google page if you search for "Flüchtlinge" "Prostitution" and "Deutschland".
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Jun 22, 2017 06:04
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Torrannor posted:So why are we in Germany doing the wrong thing and forcing refugees into prostitution instead of actually taking care of them? You see, the article you linked talks about an migrant whose "Duldung" expired, which means in the eyes of the German state he is no refugee and never was. If he were a refugee the German state would care for him.
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Jun 22, 2017 06:54
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Einbauschrank posted:He really seems keen on undoing 70 years of amitié franco-allemand and the mutual development of European integration. Not being able to bear the sight of a symbol of the European attempt to overcome lovely nationalism in a national parliament makes you look like a lovely nationalist. It's the kind if stuff you'd expect from UKIP or the AfD. What is the reason that he's not allowed to be a nationalist? Amazingly, not every politician is obligated to be either a postmodern idpol leftist or a liberal (and usually both at the same time). If there were more Mélenchons, the left probably wouldn't have lost half its electorate to the far right.
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Jun 22, 2017 07:06
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nationalism is bad and uncool my friend
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Jun 22, 2017 07:14
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Blut posted:I wonder how all those "refugees welcome!!" people will feel when their taxes are increased to support these 1million ish unemployed people for the next 5 years. Oh no, not my taxes 
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Jun 22, 2017 07:18
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That is purely a New Left idea, limited to the West and the last fifty years. Beyond that context, you might have had the rhetoric about internationalism, but it never amounted to much in practice. In many Cold War conflicts, the liberation struggle was inextricably linked to nationalism, often to excess. Pol Pot murdered Vietnamese and Christians, North Korea aborts half-Chinese babies, Stalin deported the Chechens, the list goes on. They are not necessarily great examples to follow, but it's stupid to say that Mélenchon is a bad leftist because he is actually distinguishable from a generic liberal waffling about European integration and how borders are evil. He just deviates from the current norm.
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Jun 22, 2017 07:28
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34 days as justice minister, that's better than mike flynn's tenure as national security adviser
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Jun 22, 2017 07:58
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Blut posted:In German news, it seems even the government is coming around to the idea that all those uneducated immigrants might not be quite the economic miracle that was claimed: I don't pay taxes because I have negative money.
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Jun 22, 2017 08:26
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Shibawanko posted:I don't pay taxes because I have negative money. So you are a capitalist banker with more loans than asset worth.
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Jun 22, 2017 08:33
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YF-23 posted:Liberal capitalists use it as an argument, and it's an attractive one to make so it gets adopted by others easily. It is a bad argument, however, because it implicitly erodes the humanitarian argument; if we should be accepting of refugees because they're good for the economy, and it turns out that they're bad for the economy, the person that made the initial argument now has to either back away from supporting a welcoming attitude to refugees, or fall back to the humanitarian argument which renders it secondary. Not really liberal capitalists... It's mostly well-meaning leftists who have no clue but will use whatever pro-refugee argument they can find.
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Jun 22, 2017 09:26
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Doctor Malaver posted:Not really liberal capitalists... It's mostly well-meaning leftists who have no clue but will use whatever pro-refugee argument they can find. Yeah, with the economic immigrants/refugee situation the left and liberals/libertarians ended up as rather unlikely bed-fellows by sharing arguments. But this applies to the more socialist left, since the social democrats have never been that fond of immigration due to their alliances with the unions.
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Jun 22, 2017 09:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:If the president and parliament were the same thing, you'd save an election. Checks and balances. The President and the Parliament are supposed to be separate so that each one can oppose the other if needed. (The Assembly can make a vote of no-confidence to unseat the President; the President can dissolve the Assembly; in either case voters get to choose the replacement.) But then you get the Senate as well, which is a check on the Assembly but not on the President, so it gets a bit unbalanced. Also the Senate is always right-wing. Always. The only time the left-wing had a Senate majority happened under Hollande, who promptly blew it up by following a neoliberal policy of making GBS threads on workers' rights and rolling back on every leftist and environmentalist promises.
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Jun 22, 2017 11:36
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Doctor Malaver posted:Not really liberal capitalists... It's mostly well-meaning leftists who have no clue but will use whatever pro-refugee argument they can find. Usually these leftists tend to be the more liberal, social-democratic ones. A socialist wouldn't care much about the capitalist economy to argue on the merits of what is good for it.
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Jun 22, 2017 11:49
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The vote of no-confidence unseats the Prime Minister. The prez remains prez whatever happens. I still can't believe that Emmanuel loving Macron is president.
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Jun 22, 2017 12:00
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Phlegmish posted:That is purely a New Left idea, limited to the West and the last fifty years. Beyond that context, you might have had the rhetoric about internationalism, but it never amounted to much in practice. In many Cold War conflicts, the liberation struggle was inextricably linked to nationalism, often to excess. Pol Pot murdered Vietnamese and Christians, North Korea aborts half-Chinese babies, Stalin deported the Chechens, the list goes on. They are not necessarily great examples to follow, but it's stupid to say that Mélenchon is a bad leftist because he is actually distinguishable from a generic liberal waffling about European integration and how borders are evil. He just deviates from the current norm.
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Jun 22, 2017 12:39
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