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Gildiss posted:Forgetting jQuery? I use prototype and scriptaculous. I'm not just going to jump on every stupid flash in the pan hipster library that comes out.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:43
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prom candy posted:I use prototype and scriptaculous. I'm not just going to jump on every stupid flash in the pan hipster library that comes out. I use XSLT to produce my ActionScript. an actual thing that happened 8 years ago
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Jun 21, 2017 06:08
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I just did a little mini survey of about ~30 job postings on various web sites for jobs that were specifically labelled "front-end" work in an attempt to find common words/phrases to help me figure out what to put on a resume. Thought it'd be relevant for you guys but I'm sure you probably can already guess what my findings or whatever were. Here's a list of everything that I saw mentioned at least 4 times in order of most common to least common:
Lastly, here are some things that I see often name-dropped in discussion threads but were mentioned only ever once in my little dumb survey thing:
Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 06:28
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Job offers are basically somebody that visit a doctor with a printed list of illness and ask "based on my symptons, what illness I have, from this list?"
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Jun 21, 2017 07:37
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prom candy posted:I use prototype and scriptaculous. I'm not just going to jump on every stupid flash in the pan hipster library that comes out. hahahah I used to use both of those before jQuery won the MSFT crowd.
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Jun 21, 2017 11:27
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Love Stole the Day posted:I just did a little mini survey of about ~30 job postings on various web sites for jobs that were specifically labelled "front-end" work in an attempt to find common words/phrases to help me figure out what to put on a resume. Thought it'd be relevant for you guys but I'm sure you probably can already guess what my findings or whatever were. Some of this is pretty interesting, especially when you see php/rails/sql for a "front-end" job. And react-native? Uhh... that's mobile, not front-end, or is mobile considered the new front-end?
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Jun 21, 2017 11:38
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Point taken - I'll stop effort posting and projecting so much. Interviewing a bunch of bad candidates and getting a new job myself has me worked up about some of this right now. Just doing a fullstack project to show off is way more important than which languages you pick.Love Stole the Day posted:I just did a little mini survey[...] This is cool. Automate and visualize this type of collation, and you have a killer discussion topic at an interview. Bonus points if you throw some annotations for each item like ThoughtWorks Radar (https://www.thoughtworks.com/radar) or any of the "which languages are in demand" or "which languages do people like/dislike" type blog posts from StackOverflow.
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Jun 21, 2017 12:51
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Love Stole the Day posted:I just did a little mini survey of about ~30 job postings on various web sites for jobs that were specifically labelled "front-end" work in an attempt to find common words/phrases to help me figure out what to put on a resume. Thought it'd be relevant for you guys but I'm sure you probably can already guess what my findings or whatever were. So you have basically learned this: people who write job descriptions, and by extension the recruiters who try to find people to fill those jobs - more often than not have NO IDEA what they are even talking about. Here's a handy guide, based on my own experiences: Javascript What it actually means: ECMAScript, a loosely typed language primarily used for scripting the front-end web, now capable via something like Node of being a full stack language. Included should probably at least be ES6, and you should at least have some idea of what's coming in ES7. Related to Java in the same way the word "Cartoon" is related to "Car" which is to say not at all, only visually. What job posters/recruiters think it means: Javascript. Java. Java with Swing. Java Beans. Anything with Java- in the name. Anything with -script in the name, too. The screenplay a writer works on when he's sitting on his laptop at Starbucks. REST or RESTful What it actually means: a web service which uses the http verbs (GET, POST, PUT, DELETE, etc) in a specific and semantic way, and generally returns JSON responses. What job posters/recruiters (and in this case, many tech leads I have interviewed with) think it means: any service that returns JSON. Any web service. ES6, ES2015, ES7, etc What it actually means: different version numbers of modern Javascript. That's it. It is literally the equivalent of v1.0, v2.0, v3.0 What job posters/recruiters think it means: Some new esoteric language that must be the new hotness because they keep seeing it on job postings written by people who probably also don't know what it is, or at least think it's something entirely different than Javascript. So basically - it's a free-for-all. Have good questions prepared for the recruiter like: what is their current tech stack, exactly? If the answer is the slightest bit vague, request that they contact the client for clarification - preferably a TECHNICAL contact. Any time answers get slightest vague or bullshit-y - give it a pass - that usually indicates they aren't yet sure what they need, and you will wind up being a front-end dev, the webmaster, tech support and the dude who fixes the printer because hey - it's all computers, amirite?!??. Last time I looked there were 0.7 javascript devs for every 1 javascript job. No harm in holding out for what you want.
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Jun 21, 2017 13:04
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Love Stole the Day posted:I just did a little mini survey of about ~30 job postings on various web sites for jobs that were specifically labelled "front-end" work in an attempt to find common words/phrases to help me figure out what to put on a resume. Thought it'd be relevant for you guys but I'm sure you probably can already guess what my findings or whatever were. Good stuff. In the same vein, a recruiter sent me a job posting that wanted 5+ years of React experience. I politely replied I would never work for a company that had idiots writing their job postings.
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Jun 21, 2017 14:20
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*puts on troll hat* Once all browsers support web bytecode, the only language you would need for frontend programming will be PHP http://asmblah.github.io/uniter/demo/interactive.html
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Jun 21, 2017 14:27
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Just write a fuckin' hypervisor in javascript and download entire server VM image into your browser, why not.
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Jun 21, 2017 14:36
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[deleted to protect the universe from bad ideas] Tei fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 14:46
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Has anyone here put together a natural language form that was more complicated than a couple text inputs and a select field? We're writing calculators with natural language forms as their interfaces, and I don't think it's working out. I've come to really question the practice when we're trying to wrangle a bunch of complicated insurance and finance numbers and limits into a design that's supposed to just take baby names and airport codes. I feel like a calculator would be infinitely better served by giving the user sliders and knobs to play with instead, but what the gently caress do I know about UIUX  And since you're wondering, no, we don't do end user acceptability testing - the only people that use the things before they're released are the people who came up with the designs in the first place.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:07
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Pollyanna posted:Has anyone here put together a natural language form that was more complicated than a couple text inputs and a select field? We're writing calculators with natural language forms as their interfaces, and I don't think it's working out. Sorry, I don't remember at this moment any. But I am not a computer scientist. I am a command line user, sometimes type things in /usr/bin/bc, and I heard other people use spreadsheets. Sounds like your thing is more exciting. I am interested.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:34
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Tei posted:Sorry, I don't remember at this moment any. But I am not a computer scientist. I mean...it's not that great. It's more frustrating to me, but that's just in my admittedly biased experience. There's a lot of annoying edge cases, UI wonkiness, and non-dev-related issues that makes it hard to implement. If you want an example (which is not the company I work at), you can try out something like this: https://havenlife.com/term-life-insurance-quotes.html
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Jun 21, 2017 15:47
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Pollyanna posted:I mean...it's not that great. It's more frustrating to me, but that's just in my admittedly biased experience. There's a lot of annoying edge cases, UI wonkiness, and non-dev-related issues that makes it hard to implement. This is a simple thing. I like* simple things. The next time somebody ask "Anyone have a wild idea?" I will drop this "we can make a natural language UX" and I will win that reunion. Thanks!. Edit: * "love" is more appropriate.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:57
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ModeSix posted:Some of this is pretty interesting, especially when you see php/rails/sql for a "front-end" job. And react-native? Uhh... that's mobile, not front-end, or is mobile considered the new front-end? It's javascript and javascript == frontend for a lot of people, including those recruiters.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:53
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Tei posted:This is a simple thing. I like* simple things. To each their own, I guess. I find it mind-numbingly boring.
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Jun 21, 2017 17:13
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gmq posted:It's javascript and javascript == frontend for a lot of people, including those recruiters. Ah. Of course, it all makes sense now.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:36
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Pollyanna posted:To each their own, I guess. I find it mind-numbingly boring. I have a ui where users design a request over sales data by drag and dropping filters. A few users know how to use the tool, but others are confused even with the filter view. The ability to write a natural language sentence with the filters stuck in the right place will be like magic for my users.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:47
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Tei posted:I have a ui where users design a request over sales data by drag and dropping filters. A few users know how to use the tool, but others are confused even with the filter view. The ability to write a natural language sentence with the filters stuck in the right place will be like magic for my users. I'm sure they'll still screw it up. The problem isn't that they just "don't know SQL", it's that their thinking lacks structure and they will type in stupid sentences that make no sense and they'll blame the tool & you for it.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:52
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Love Stole the Day posted:I just did a little mini survey of about ~30 job postings on various web sites for jobs that were specifically labelled "front-end" work in an attempt to find common words/phrases to help me figure out what to put on a resume. Thought it'd be relevant for you guys but I'm sure you probably can already guess what my findings or whatever were. Really surprised React is more common than angular. I've been struggling to see React on postings, but seeing angular (both JS and 2) literally everywhere.
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Jun 21, 2017 19:08
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Maybe people who built Angular projects have quit their jobs to go work on React projects?
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Jun 21, 2017 19:57
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In my dev circles a lot of my fellow consultants have been getting gigs doing Angular (aka ng2), which surprises me. Wasn't sure if it would catch on with all the drama surrounding AngularJS (aka ng1) but it seems to be gaining a foothold. I assume this is coming from shops who were doing AngularJS before and see Angular as a logical next step for their next projects.
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Jun 21, 2017 21:54
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I don't quite get the appeal of Angular, to be honest. It seems to be much the same as any other framework, except with some weird syntax and an annoying requirement to wire dependency injection into everything.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:04
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Yeah I'm not sold myself. Vue seems like a better version of the same thing. That said, a lot of smaller companies find Google's backing very appealing so I bet that is quite a draw.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:14
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Summit posted:Yeah I'm not sold myself. Vue seems like a better version of the same thing. That said, a lot of smaller companies find Google's backing very appealing so I bet that is quite a draw. Vue and Aurelia are thematically similar to AngularJS, but are more modern. AngularJS started back before there were standards for things like DI, so had to roll their own for a lot of things. Angular2 has the advantage of being newer, but then they decided to include a bunch of things that probably are not needed but gently caress you we're doing what we want. AngularJS does have the benefit of it being supported by Google, and having a relatively mature community compared to the newer frameworks, so is less of an unknown.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:24
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Angular I think I complained about this at some point in this thread but Angular 4 is completely unusable unless you want a SPA. You have to fight against the framework to make it work in an environment where Angular doesn't control the entire DOM. Vue integrates perfectly well with whatever backend framework you want to use, with pre-cooked views with erb and all that stuff. If you do comply with what Angular 4 proposes, it's a perfectly good framework if a bit verbose compared to Vue or React.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:38
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Grump posted:Really surprised React is more common than angular. I've been struggling to see React on postings, but seeing angular (both JS and 2) literally everywhere. AFAICT, in-demand technologies vary a lot based upon what city or region you're looking at.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:50
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gmq posted:Angular I'm not sure why one would use Angular 4 if you weren't building an SPA. That definitely seems to be it's wheelhouse. Speaking of jobs, I accepted an Angular 2 position just today. Starting on the 17th. Company is moving all their apps (all on various tech stacks) to Angular 2 and want someone to architect all the shared components. Nice thing is - the analysis legwork of determining what can/should be shared is already done AND they already had a design firm do the mocks/redlines, so basically I get to drop in a just code it. Looking forward to it. Shop I'm in now is a huge career dead-end.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:31
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HaB posted:Looking forward to it. Shop I'm in now is a huge career dead-end. High five... I accepted an offer yesterday. Boss just told me today he's really sorry for all the lovely work lately, but things will get better soon. Yes, yes they will.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:13
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HaB posted:So basically - it's a free-for-all. Have good questions prepared for the recruiter like: what is their current tech stack, exactly? If the answer is the slightest bit vague, request that they contact the client for clarification - preferably a TECHNICAL contact. Any time answers get slightest vague or bullshit-y - give it a pass - that usually indicates they aren't yet sure what they need, and you will wind up being a front-end dev, the webmaster, tech support and the dude who fixes the printer because hey - it's all computers, amirite?!??. Last time I looked there were 0.7 javascript devs for every 1 javascript job. No harm in holding out for what you want. I love your advice, but counterpoint: tell that to my bank account
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Jun 22, 2017 03:51
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Helicity posted:High five... I accepted an offer yesterday. Boss just told me today he's really sorry for all the lovely work lately, but things will get better soon. Yes, yes they will. Hell yeah. Let us raise celebratory glasses this weekend.  Love Stole the Day posted:I love your advice, but counterpoint: tell that to my bank account Ha. Well in that case, broader advice: Try to keep a month or two's salary tucked away. The javascript market moves pretty quickly, tho. Hopefully you won't get too strapped.
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Jun 22, 2017 12:59
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Helicity posted:High five... I accepted an offer yesterday. Boss just told me today he's really sorry for all the lovely work lately, but things will get better soon. Yes, yes they will. Haha nice, congrats! As much as everyone likes a new opportunity in general, only software devs will know the joy and liberation of leaving a codebase behind for good. I swear it feels like flushing mental RAM.
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Jun 22, 2017 13:04
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Dang you guys are getting me excited. Congrats. I'm on the third round of interviews with a company but I'm getting cold feet bc i really like my company now even though the pay is abysmally below average for this industry
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Jun 22, 2017 13:38
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Where are you guys finding these jobs? Because based on the feedback to my dumb survey, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.
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Jun 22, 2017 14:57
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Love Stole the Day posted:Where are you guys finding these jobs? Because based on the feedback to my dumb survey, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. FWIW, Google launched its jobs search thingy just recently. I just googled "front end developer jobs" and the top of the search results is a box that lists a few local jobs and when you click it, it expands to a full job search tool that pulls in from all sorts of sites.
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Jun 22, 2017 15:05
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Thermopyle posted:FWIW, Google launched its jobs search thingy just recently. I just googled "front end developer jobs" and the top of the search results is a box that lists a few local jobs and when you click it, it expands to a full job search tool that pulls in from all sorts of sites. Overseas American here. The new jobs thing on Google only works if you're in the US, sadly. Can't just move back and look around afterward because of how expensive it is to move, set up, and live there (the US has a much higher cost of living than here in Asia).
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Jun 22, 2017 15:20
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Love Stole the Day posted:Overseas American here. The new jobs thing on Google only works if you're in the US, sadly. Can't just move back and look around afterward because of how expensive it is to move, set up, and live there (the US has a much higher cost of living than here in Asia). What about using a US VPN? I don't know if its worth it, but if you want to try it out, thatd' probably work...
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Jun 22, 2017 15:33
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Thermopyle posted:FWIW, Google launched its jobs search thingy just recently. I just googled "front end developer jobs" and the top of the search results is a box that lists a few local jobs and when you click it, it expands to a full job search tool that pulls in from all sorts of sites. Woah cool. I've just been using Craigslist and Indeed.
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Jun 22, 2017 16:14
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