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Ainsley McTree posted:Ah. Well, worst case scenario is that it's at least extremely realistic historical fiction, which sounds like it's still worth a read. I enjoyed his book. Whether its a 100% accurate retelling of his life is obviously doubtful, but it is serviceable if treated like other memoirs.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:28
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spectralent posted:Relatedly, how serious was the Soviet Union's attempt to join NATO? Like, was it just a PR stunt or was it the kind of thing where they actually wanted it? The SU never tried to join, but its successor state, the Russian Federation, did. It didn't go over well, thanks to the US jacking off too hard over the "End of History"-bullshit. A few crisis later, when the political situation in Russia stabilized again, the Federation was kind of miffed by what happened and a historical chance was wasted.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:37
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Libluini posted:The SU never tried to join, but its successor state, the Russian Federation, did. It didn't go over well, thanks to the US jacking off too hard over the "End of History"-bullshit. It really is hard to overstate just how badly the US hosed up its chances with Russia in the '90s.
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Jun 22, 2017 18:38
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Libluini posted:The SU never tried to join [NATO] Well it sort of did, back in '54. Molotov told the Europeans that the Soviet Union would be willing to join under certain conditions; given that the SU's prime concern throughout the post-war era was "don't let the GPW happen again", they were probably sincere about it, albeit aware of the low probability of success. https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/molotovs-proposal-the-ussr-join-nato-march-1954
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Jun 22, 2017 18:40
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Well it sort of did, back in '54. Molotov told the Europeans that the Soviet Union would be willing to join under certain conditions; given that the SU's prime concern throughout the post-war era was "don't let the GPW happen again", they were probably sincere about it, albeit aware of the low probability of success. Yeah, no. That was never a serious proposal. Telling the US to stay out of NATO was never going to work. In the 90s, there was at least a genuine attempt by the Federation to join alongside the US. Molotov's garbage was basically just propaganda, aimed at undermining the still young NATO.
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Jun 22, 2017 19:06
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PittTheElder posted:Something tells me that the crewing requirements for a battleship are not among the US military's current concerns. Attitudes like this are a big part of the problem. Have some loving vision people, BATTLESHIPS
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Jun 22, 2017 19:10
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Bourricot posted:They finally managed a compromise after the demise of the Second Empire, but things didn't go as planned: And to tie this further into military history, the Comte de Paris and his brother the Duke of Chartres were in 1861 placed at the service of the United States government by their uncle, the Prince of Joinville, who hoped to prove their (and his own) republican credentials. Both were commissioned captains and found positions on the staff of George McClellan.
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Jun 22, 2017 19:35
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bewbies posted:Attitudes like this are a big part of the problem. Please. The MIC in the US can't even make a coastal frigate without catastrophically loving it up, much less a brand spanking new super-modern capital ship.
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Jun 22, 2017 19:52
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PittTheElder posted:Well it sort of did, back in '54. Molotov told the Europeans that the Soviet Union would be willing to join under certain conditions; given that the SU's prime concern throughout the post-war era was "don't let the GPW happen again", they were probably sincere about it, albeit aware of the low probability of success. Yeah, this is what I meant. I'm curious how genuine this was, since, as you say, the lense I view post-war history through has changed massively ever since I learned just how badly shook the USSR was by Barbarossa. And, I mean, I definitely shouldn't have been surprised, since it was horrific and most other nations that've suffered blows end up going a bit crazy after.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:05
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Cythereal posted:Please. The MIC in the US can't even make a coastal frigate without catastrophically loving it up, much less a brand spanking new super-modern capital ship. I am not going to be deterred by naysayers like this guy.
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Jun 22, 2017 20:36
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Yeah, my buddy with the PhD in 17-18th century French history had never heard of that guy either and then laughed when I told him the basic argument. He said it looks typical for popular history on military topics, with WW2 and the ACW being the other two big examples: probably dripping with good info on battles, uniforms, formations, etc but either lacking analysis or having crazy analysis. So, yeah. I wouldn't hang too much on that guy's arguments. He looks incredibly in love with his subject, isn't academically trained as a historian, and seems to be the one guy making this oddball argument. He also had some recommendations on other books if anyone cares. Charles Esdaile, Michael Broers, Alan Forrest or Isser Woloch for stuff on Napoleon, David Bell for a solid overview of the military stuff in that era. Stephen Englund if you're into administrative bureaucracy, although I'm pretty sure he just threw that suggestion in for me because he knows bureaucrats are my jam. Again, I'm not personally familiar with any of these authors, just passing along what someone who actually knows French history has to say on the topic.
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Jun 22, 2017 22:14
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FAUXTON posted:Uh yeah that's of pretty drat significant interest, holy poo poo. Haha fair enough, I don't keep a close eye on this thread so I didn't know if this was derivative or not. We've got most of his letters to and from his father spanning several decades as well as his logbook. Like a lot of veterans he didn't talk a lot about the war. According to his logbook he only started flying Mosquitos in July 1944, before that he flew supply planes for the Ministry of Supply and meterological flights for the RAF. Here's another picture, similar idea, attack on a flack boat in Denmark.  One story he did tell was after a flight he returned from the Port of Skaw, Denmark. His plane was badly damaged by flack, and he had to fly all the way home on one engine with his prop hitting the top of the waves across the English Channel. He was able to gain enough altitude only after his plane had spent enough fuel to lighten the load and he was able to safely land at his aerodrome. From his wartime letters he had this to say about the Mosquito: quote:Lovely aeroplanes, I can’t tell you what sort but among the fastest in the world, mostly engines of course with a little bit of plane attached. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 23:06
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So what was the Greek Civil War all about?
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Jun 22, 2017 23:39
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Grouchio posted:So what was the Greek Civil War all about?
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Jun 22, 2017 23:42
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Grouchio posted:So what was the Greek Civil War all about? Communism. With the UK interceding heavily on the anti side iirc. One of those shameful post imperial episodes that noone ever talks about these days.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:11
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feedmegin posted:Communism. With the UK interceding heavily on the anti side iirc. One of those shameful post imperial episodes that noone ever talks about these days.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:14
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Grouchio posted:I wonder why it occured so quickly after the end of Nazi occupation... Power vacuum of removing the central authority meant that all the various resistance groups got to fight each other over who would get to rule Greece as there was no central enemy to fight or strong government to stop them. It happens after most revolutions/removal of authority.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:37
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The thing that really hosed with me about the greek civil war, is that the first shots were fired at a demonstration by right wing gendarmes, with british forces standing off and doing nothing, in December 1944! The war with the Germans wasn't even over, and they starting shooting at unarmed demonstrators!
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Jun 23, 2017 00:41
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Mantis42 posted:Wasn't that the plan for the Yamato, in the end? It got sunk at sea before it could make it to any beach but I remember reading that somewhere. Yep. A suicide battleship. Her orders were to sail to Okinawa and beach herself there.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:29
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What would've possessed America to support the reds in Greece instead of the royals, whilst ensuring they become an American, not a Soviet, ally?
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Jun 23, 2017 02:29
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The spectre of communism?
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Jun 23, 2017 02:31
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Grouchio posted:What would've possessed America to support the reds in Greece instead of the royals, whilst ensuring they become an American, not a Soviet, ally? um, what?
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Jun 23, 2017 03:02
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Grouchio asks the dumbest questions.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:19
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Grouchio posted:What would've possessed America to support the reds in Greece instead of the royals, whilst ensuring they become an American, not a Soviet, ally? A communist coup in Washington
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Jun 23, 2017 03:29
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Cyrano4747 posted:Yeah, my buddy with the PhD in 17-18th century French history had never heard of that guy either and then laughed when I told him the basic argument. He said it looks typical for popular history on military topics, with WW2 and the ACW being the other two big examples: probably dripping with good info on battles, uniforms, formations, etc but either lacking analysis or having crazy analysis. Thanks for this, I appreciate it. Sometime ago I was listening to a lengthy podcast series on Napoleon where this guy was introduced as Napoleon historian extraordinaire. He is certainly very knowledgeable on the subject but as you say, his arguments might not be the most robust.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:36
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MrMojok posted:Yep. A suicide battleship. Her orders were to sail to Okinawa and beach herself there. IIRC her crew had actually managed to secret away enough fuel that she could attack the invasion force and return if by some miracle she had survived that much, irrespective of orders to beach herself.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:39
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Koramei posted:It was a different kind of war, and over a much longer period, so maybe the comparison isn't really fitting- but since the question is directly comparing it to Korea, it's worth pointing out that the Korean War had a very comparable human toll. I think it's totally possible that more generous interactions with the US in the wake of it would have made a huge difference regardless of that, just like they did for South Korea. Vietnam's main trading partner in this time was the Soviet Union and Eastern bloc and that was how it stayed until the late 1980s. They became fairly diplomatically isolated after they overthrew the Khmer Rouge in 1979 and I doubt the Soviets could have used any guest laborers. It was ending the Cambodian genocide that got the Chinese on their bad side, and China claims to have killed over 100,000 Vietnamese soldiers during their brief war. While I'm sure those numbers are grossly inflated, it still shows that the Sino-Vietnamese war was no small border skirmish, it was a serious conflict, and Vietnam had to simultaneously fight remnant Khmer Rouge who now also had CIA backing. I haven't heard much about the Vietnamese economy prior to liberalization but by most accounts it was crummy and mismanaged.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:05
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Ice Fist posted:A communist coup in Washington United Soviets of America 
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Jun 23, 2017 08:45
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Ice Fist posted:A communist coup in Washington
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Jun 23, 2017 09:18
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US-Vietnamese relations were loving terrible in between the war and the 1990's - the thing that changed was China rising as a regional superpower, which still has ramifications today as countries that would not normally be strong allies of the US or each other are being drawn into a grand coalition in an attempt to contain China and prevent it becoming a regional hegemon.
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Jun 23, 2017 09:18
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Grouchio posted:I was under the assumption that the communists in Greece had the moral high ground. I asked what would make their victory plausible? Well, you were wrong. Certainly not from the viewpoint of the US back then. Considering this and everything stacked against the Greek communists, I guess intervention by aliens would make their victory plausible?
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Jun 23, 2017 10:30
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At this point, this thread should just run your cyoa directly. Cut out the middle man.
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Jun 23, 2017 11:09
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Grouchio posted:I was under the assumption that the communists in Greece had the moral high ground. I asked what would make their victory plausible?
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Jun 23, 2017 11:40
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Oh Heygal, you're still in the thread! How much armour did your dudes wear usually? Obviously they've got the rad clothes, but do they all wear helmets and do some of them wear curiasses or whatever? Or is that just for cavalry with cavalry bucks? Sorry that I only have a boring equipment question. Also, is trin ok? I haven't seen him post since he vanished from his forum game. I assume he's just busy, but you never know.
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Jun 23, 2017 11:54
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Grouchio posted:I was under the assumption that the communists in Greece had the moral high ground. I asked what would make their victory plausible? Go away and do your own loving research for your stupid CYOA. Nobody in this thread wants to answer your insane counterfactual what ifs.
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Jun 23, 2017 12:01
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Squalid posted:Vietnam's main trading partner in this time was the Soviet Union and Eastern bloc and that was how it stayed until the late 1980s. They became fairly diplomatically isolated after they overthrew the Khmer Rouge in 1979 and I doubt the Soviets could have used any guest laborers. It was ending the Cambodian genocide that got the Chinese on their bad side, and China claims to have killed over 100,000 Vietnamese soldiers during their brief war. While I'm sure those numbers are grossly inflated, it still shows that the Sino-Vietnamese war was no small border skirmish, it was a serious conflict, and Vietnam had to simultaneously fight remnant Khmer Rouge who now also had CIA backing. These are all correct. After the Sino-Vietnamese war and the over-throw of the Khmer Rouge regime, Vietnam essentially had the dual task of occupying Cambodia and fighting Khmer Rogue elements and border skirmishes along the Chinese border. These continued pretty much right up until the end of the cold war. Vietnam's only real Ally during this time was the Soviet Union. As Squalid notes, the economy was also badly mismanaged and the land reforms never panned out. Vietnam was in a really lovely position for the entire 1980s decade. Most of the second wave Diaspora come from this period. Thing's really didn't start improving in Vietnam until the Doi Moi policy was implemented in the late 1980s, and the economy didn't start to open up until the normalization of relations with the US in the mid-1990s. *EDIT* I hate using Wikipedia for anything more than getting the most general info, but I really want to drive home the point that Vietnam had to fight a two-front war all throughout the 1980s. Many of these battles were not small skirmishes either, but involved large battalions and even division sized units. My knowledge of this time period is actually really lacking, so if anyone can recommend any reading material it would be greatly appreciated! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_conflicts_1979%E2%80%9390 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian%E2%80%93Vietnamese_War Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 12:21
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Splode posted:Oh Heygal, you're still in the thread! i have seen pictures in manuals of musketeers with helmets, but anything more than that for them would gently caress up their ability to move around--the loading procedure involves a bunch of twisting. trin is ok, he's just got a lot of stuff going on in his life and is pretty adhd. i bug him to post, and sometimes he does. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 12:30
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Ah, cool, thanks! When you finish your work, will it be available anywhere for us to read? Glad to hear trin's ok.
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Jun 23, 2017 12:43
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Splode posted:Ah, cool, thanks! When you finish your work, will it be available anywhere for us to read?
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Jun 23, 2017 13:02
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HEY GAIL posted:hopefully, i can get it published as a book! I'd buy that immediately
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Jun 23, 2017 13:06
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