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People cross over the dmz all the time, it's not as impenetrable as the media makes it out to be.
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Jun 21, 2017 13:58
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New from Vice: Why does North Korea keep photoshopping Kim Jong Un's ears?quote:"Over the past few years, we noticed that Kim Jong-un's ears often appear to have been altered along with other aspects of his appearance. We think these are just cosmetic alterations—changes to help Kim look a bit more handsome than he is in real life, much like a wedding photographer might make. He doesn't like his ears, or so it seems," Lewis told me in an email.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:54
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Otto Warmbier, in death, is becoming a conservative icon. Apparently, the alt-right dug up a bunch of old "maybe it wasn't a good idea for a frat boy to travel to a notoriously brutal anti-US dictatorship on a 'party tour' and get drunk as hell" takes and are claiming them as evidence that he's a victim of some kind of leftist crusade against straight white males.
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Jun 21, 2017 21:19
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Main Paineframe posted:Otto Warmbier, in death, is becoming a conservative icon. Apparently, the alt-right dug up a bunch of old "maybe it wasn't a good idea for a frat boy to travel to a notoriously brutal anti-US dictatorship on a 'party tour' and get drunk as hell" takes and are claiming them as evidence that he's a victim of some kind of leftist crusade against straight white males. Maybe we'll see conservatives flock to North Korea to prove their conservative street cred by doing dumb poo poo and getting arrested.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:24
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Main Paineframe posted:Otto Warmbier, in death, is becoming a conservative icon. Apparently, the alt-right dug up a bunch of old "maybe it wasn't a good idea for a frat boy to travel to a notoriously brutal anti-US dictatorship on a 'party tour' and get drunk as hell" takes and are claiming them as evidence that he's a victim of some kind of leftist crusade against straight white males. Otto Warmbier is the new John Birch.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:27
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I need some up to date website that tells me which authoritarian dictatorships US conservatives worship as a country with strong leaders who get things done, and which are enemies due to being authoritarian dictatorships.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:27
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Baronjutter posted:I need some up to date website that tells me which authoritarian dictatorships US conservatives worship as a country with strong leaders who get things done, and which are enemies due to being authoritarian dictatorships. It's called Trump's twitter.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:29
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Maybe we'll see conservatives flock to North Korea to prove their conservative street cred by doing dumb poo poo and getting arrested. Oh, a man can dream.
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Jun 22, 2017 03:04
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What seems to often be lost in all of this is that "Otto Warmbier" is a great name.
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Jun 22, 2017 03:46
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Dr.Radical posted:What seems to often be lost in all of this is that "Otto Warmbier" is a great name. I'd prefer a lotta coldbeer
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Jun 22, 2017 03:59
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Main Paineframe posted:Otto Warmbier, in death, is becoming a conservative icon. Apparently, the alt-right dug up a bunch of old "maybe it wasn't a good idea for a frat boy to travel to a notoriously brutal anti-US dictatorship on a 'party tour' and get drunk as hell" takes and are claiming them as evidence that he's a victim of some kind of leftist crusade against straight white males. Then again, this has been depressing me for the past few days so maybe I'm just not being objective.  Frankly it's likely I wouldn't have liked Otto if I'd known him, but I don't need to personally like someone to not want them to be beaten into a coma for vandalism. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 04:00
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Main Paineframe posted:Otto Warmbier, in death, is becoming a conservative icon. Apparently, the alt-right dug up a bunch of old "maybe it wasn't a good idea for a frat boy to travel to a notoriously brutal anti-US dictatorship on a 'party tour' and get drunk as hell" takes Okay, fair enough, broken watch and all. Main Paineframe posted:and are claiming them as evidence that he's a victim of some kind of leftist crusade against straight white males. I cannot for the life of me connect these two. How.
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Jun 22, 2017 04:53
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There was a huffpo article from when he was sentenced a year or two ago basically praising the decision as a blow against straight white male privilege
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Jun 22, 2017 11:39
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icantfindaname posted:There was a huffpo article from when he was sentenced a year or two ago basically praising the decision as a blow against straight white male privilege has anyone provided a reason beyond "NK is bad" that the accusation he stole a poster is false? Not that anyone deserves to be beaten into a coma for stealing a poster, but it seems like people prefer the narrative of innocent American child thoughtlessly beaten to punish America to "don't prank a dictatorship, it will end poorly"
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Jun 22, 2017 20:58
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maskenfreiheit posted:has anyone provided a reason beyond "NK is bad" that the accusation he stole a poster is false? He was no angel, maybe he should have complied etc.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:35
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I don't think there was any doubt that he stole the poster, but he was coerced into confessing that he stole it at the behest of a church that was a CIA front. Maybe the story about him stealing it in exchange for a car is credible, Idunno.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:59
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Wasnt the video really grainy but just happened to be pointed directly at the poster, which is than reverently taken down in a very polite manner?
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Jun 22, 2017 23:19
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I heard rumors his fraternity wanted some kind of poster for their house (whether the idea originated from the frat or warmbier who knows). This makes a lot of sense because it is a plausible reason for him to do something like that. Then, you could imagine him trying to explain what a fraternity is to some DPRK guy. Like, try even explaining about them to someone from a different culture without a language barrier. Not just their function, but the motivation behind their existence. So the group of DPRK guys in charge of this have no idea what to make about fraternities or why people would do negative poo poo for fraternities. Instead they have all this experience with religious groups so they google search up a church close to his house and make up the story. The story being made up by DPRK is plausible because it completely misses the point in two ways. - Typical relation between a church and the worshiper - Private car ownership in the US or wider developed world They've heard everyone has their own car here, so if its so common people must barter them back and forth all the time, right? So they throw that in there. And they'd never understand the money flow in a typical church. Like maybe spending money on youth members to travel someplace but never handing over expensive material goods like that. Its all about the transfer of benjamins from members to the church, ya know?
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Jun 22, 2017 23:20
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The story probably sounds odd because it was bullshit written up by people unfamiliar with the subject matter. Alternatively it was produced for internal consumption, hence the church tie-in and all that.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:04
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Wasn't Warmbier a pretty devout Jew? That makes the whole church angle incredibly suspect before you even get to the Z Society thing, which is apparently a philanthropic organization at the University of Virginia.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:25
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Actually go watch the video of his supposedly taking the poster and than come back and tell me thats a six foot tall drunk frat boy stealing a poster as a prank at 3AM. Look at how reverently he takes it down and folds it so properly, almost as if he has a deep respect for that poster... How credulous can you be? Yes, I totally believe this grainy video offered by this totalitarian regime which proves a three-way conspiracy between a church, a fraternity and the CIA in an attempt to undermine the heroic spirit of the DPRK. Give me a break! Go read what happened at the airport right before they were supposed to leave. That sequence makes no sense if he was being arrested for a crime. EasternBronze fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 00:31
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I actually figured he did it. I mean, yeah, dude dumb enough to take a poverty tourism adventure to an authoritarian hellhole is probably going to try to snag something dumb like that for a souvenir to show off to his edgy friends. I actually think it is LESS likely after seeing the pants-on-head retarded version of events and the "evidence" used to convict the guy.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:33
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Wasn't Warmbier a pretty devout Jew? That makes the whole church angle incredibly suspect before you even get to the Z Society thing, which is apparently a philanthropic organization at the University of Virginia.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:51
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Uncle Jam posted:I heard rumors his fraternity wanted some kind of poster for their house (whether the idea originated from the frat or warmbier who knows). The glaring problem with this theory is that, if it's just a regular poster the frat wants, the north Koreans are more than happy to sell them. I know this because I was there last year, different tour group but same hotel where Warmbier stayed, our guide specifically told us, DO NOT go into the 5th floor. DO NOT open any door that says staff only. I haven't seen the video mentioned, but we visited all kinds of gift shops the whole trip where they have piles and piles of propaganda poster to sell you, 1US$ or 1 Euro. even right at the DMZ they were trying to sell us posters and books and lapel pins. The only thing that they don't have for sell are anything with the face of the Kims. So maybe that was the poster he was trying to steal. But to be fair, it's about being sensitive toward the country you are in. Burning a nation's flag in public is likely to get you in trouble in most countries, if not arrested outright. In autocratic countries the law can be broadened so that even the portraits of the leader are sacrosanct. This happens even in countries that people don't normally associate with dictatorship. Youtube got themselves banned for months in Thailand for hosting videos considered insulting to the royal family. A Singaporean teenager was thrown in jail for drawing a dirty picture of LKY. Does Warmbier deserve the 18 years hard labour sentence? I don't think so. Is he a totally culturally insensitive dumbass? I'm afraid that's exactly what had happened.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:19
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symphoniccacophony posted:The glaring problem with this theory is that, if it's just a regular poster the frat wants, the north Koreans are more than happy to sell them. I know this because I was there last year, different tour group but same hotel where Warmbier stayed, our guide specifically told us, DO NOT go into the 5th floor. DO NOT open any door that says staff only. The poster he supposedly stole is just text and doesnt look impressive at all. Its not even colorful. If he wanted a cool poster for the frat house it was a poo poo choice.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:28
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maskenfreiheit posted:has anyone provided a reason beyond "NK is bad" that the accusation he stole a poster is false? Hey I have a dim poor quality video of the back of some guy while he's doing a crime and I'm gonna say it's you, open and shut case, on the basis of this indisputable evidence I sentence forums poster maskenfreiheit to 18 years hard labor.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:35
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I don't see why, if they were just going to make everything up, they didn't arrest the whole tour group, you know? Maybe he just outright pissed off one of the government monitoring dudes who shadowed the tour group.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:39
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EasternBronze posted:The poster he supposedly stole is just text and doesnt look impressive at all. Its not even colorful. If he wanted a cool poster for the frat house it was a poo poo choice. Assuming that video is real then and not some reenactment, I guess he was punished for being where he should not be, stealing a poster was where they caught him red handed. From my perspective, there are more tourists in NK then most people realized. My own group filled up two buses (not fully filled, just about half of each bus) and I think 1/3 are Americans. I've seen smaller groups with only two or three people also, but the biggest group by far are Chinese tourists. Noisy, chaotic, old Chinese people. Probably there to reminisce their youth during the Cultural Revolution. I think when you are a pariah nation, tourism is a good way to legally get foreign currencies. A dead tourist is then just bad for business. If Warmbier was just a guy nabbed for crimes he didn't commit, I can't see exact what NK gained from potentially ruining their tourism business. You can't run a kidnapping business if the kidnappee doesn't go home in one piece.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:03
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Same reason you shell rocks in the middle of the sea instead of gangnam. Its alot easier to get away with grabbing one dude under ambiguous circumstances. That video doesnt even allow you to determine the race of the guy let alone that it was Otto.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:05
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Also an American dude is probably a better bargaining chip than a cantankerous old Chinese person. Probably a lot less of a pain in the rear end too.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:07
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symphoniccacophony posted:Assuming that video is real then and not some reenactment, I guess he was punished for being where he should not be, stealing a poster was where they caught him red handed. They probably didn't mean to murder him, just to kidnap him to use as a bargaining chip later. North Korea has a storied history when it comes to kidnapping. So long as they pass it off as the guy committing a crime they leave enough wiggle room for idiots already dumb enough to visit the place to think it won't happen to them. So the regime keeps getting that sweet, sweet foreign currency to help keep the ruling class in luxury goods while keeping the convenient hostage supply around so they can occasionally grab one and look magnanimous for releasing them during some future negotiation. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 04:15
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It's doubtful that he did exactly what North Korea claimed, but did he do something he wasn't supposed to? There's honestly no way of knowing for sure, but the tour company he used has a reputation for a hard-drinking party atmosphere where even the tour guides are so drunk they can barely count out the necessary bribes, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there was some kind of drunken hijinks!
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Jun 23, 2017 04:23
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I can't think of many crimes where it would be more impressive to falsely claim the guy stole a $5 poster off the wall than whatever he did.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:27
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Main Paineframe posted:It's doubtful that he did exactly what North Korea claimed, but did he do something he wasn't supposed to? There's honestly no way of knowing for sure, but the tour company he used has a reputation for a hard-drinking party atmosphere where even the tour guides are so drunk they can barely count out the necessary bribes, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there was some kind of drunken hijinks! The guy in the video is clearly not drunk.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:27
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Warbadger posted:They probably didn't mean to murder him, just to kidnap him to use as a bargaining chip later. North Korea has a storied history when it comes to kidnapping. I mentioned the kidnapping business because hostages are only valuable if they are alive and in relatively good condition. Him ending up as a vegetable is either a seriously royal screw up, or they just don't care enough about his well being. For a country that has been kidnapping foreign nationals since the 50's, I suspect they would know how to keep their hostages alive, which is why I wonder if they even wanted him in the first place. End of day, we can make conjectures but they are all one sided guesses. symphoniccacophony fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 04:49
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OhFunny posted:http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-southkorea-drone-idUSKBN19C074?il=0 OhFunny posted:Eyeballing the picture in the article it looks about 5 feet wingspan. It's a drone in the sense that a model aircraft with some cameras and a wifi antenna strapped to it and controlled either by some video goggle wearing North Korean or by some lovely $10 GPS module stuck to a $15 raspberry pi clone, is a drone. Nobody should be surprised that even a trash tier nation like Best Korea can spam cheap drones that require the all the advanced skill and ability of a bored teenager to develop. In fact, being tiny, lovely, and low-flying is probably what makes it hard to spot puttering across the DMZ. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 09:33
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Horseshoe theory posted:Otto Warmbier is the new John Birch. Granted Birch was even more ridiculous. quote:On August 25, as Captain Birch was leading a party of eleven Americans, Chinese Nationalists, and Koreans on a mission to gather intelligence in Xuzhou, they were stopped by Chinese Communists in a small town where the Red Army had been fighting Japanese troops. Birch was asked to surrender his revolver; he refused and harsh words and insults were exchanged. Birch was shot and killed; a Chinese Nationalist aide was also shot and wounded but survived. The rest of the party was taken prisoner and released two months later.
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Jun 23, 2017 09:47
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EasternBronze posted:The guy in the video is clearly not drunk. Well, sure, the video that they released was probably filmed after a couple of weeks in a North Korean prison, and I imagine it's pretty hard to get a beer there.
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Jun 23, 2017 13:01
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So why would the family not want an autopsy in this case?
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Jun 23, 2017 13:26
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Religious reasons? Or just personal ones. Autopsies are a pretty disturbing thought to plenty of people. Although them wanting to cover up that his state could be the result of attempted suicide is possible I guess but there's no reason to assume something like that. Warbadger posted:I can't think of many crimes where it would be more impressive to falsely claim the guy stole a $5 poster off the wall than whatever he did. it's vastly different cultural values dude, it's not just a $5 poster to the north Koreans. I'm sure it's been entwined with bullshit but I don't really see a reason to doubt the whole trespassing/ stealing side of the story. Koramei fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 15:12
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