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If people are going to talk about aesthetic continuity, I'd like to see some visual aids, please.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:29
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FlamingLiberal posted:It does not fit aesthetically at all with the universe. It's on the retro-future metropolis planet though.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:32
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Electromax posted:I think it's only lunacy because they didn't do it before 1983. 
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Jun 24, 2017 01:53
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Robot Style posted:You're right. It was 1987. Holy poo poo, I never noticed that they snuck the Millennium Falcon into that shot!!!
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Jun 24, 2017 01:53
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Is the flying saucer at middle right from a film? It's not quite the ship from the Day the Earth Stood still, but it looks like it might be from something.
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Jun 24, 2017 01:57
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FlamingLiberal posted:It does not fit aesthetically at all with the universe. But characters portrayed by puppets do?
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Jun 24, 2017 02:11
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What about when our hero is ceremoniously told to walk the plank off a pirate ship like Errol Flynn, is that aesthetically consistent with everything that came before? Seems a little on-the-nose, what with the menagerie of pirates, portholes, cannons, sails, rope swings, a damsel in distress, a mythic squid, sword fights, etc.
Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 03:13
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Hey, if you disagree about my comments on the aesthetics in Attack Of The Clones, that's cool. I may not agree with you, but I'll respect your right to defend an alien wearing dockers and a K-Mart special t-shirt till the dewbacks come home.
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Jun 24, 2017 03:26
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thrawn527 posted:This is largely borrowed from an article I read a while back, but I'll try. Rey is a fan of the original characters. She reveres them, even if she see Luke as a myth. She's heard of Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon, remembering him mainly as the smuggler. She lives in an abandoned AT-AT, literally sitting in the shadow of a symbol of the most popular Star Wars movie, wearing a Rebel pilot helmet for no reason other than she thinks it's fun. She clearly looks up to the characters and actions of the original trilogy, which you can see clearly in the look of utter joy when Luke or Han first come up. She's a metaphor for the fans who want to revisit the old stories, play with their toys, and not move on. But her story is realizing that she is in her own story, and embracing that. I thought the First Order was supposed to be like the modern Republican Party that is rallying behind Trump to try and recreate the Reagan era.
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Jun 24, 2017 04:29
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Fart City posted:Hey, if you disagree about my comments on the aesthetics in Attack Of The Clones, that's cool. I may not agree with you, but I'll respect your right to defend an alien wearing dockers and a K-Mart special t-shirt till the dewbacks come home. I hear ya bro. I mean look at this fuckin K-Mart Muscle Shirt:  And these cargo pants straight out of 1996:  NOT MY STAR WARS
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Jun 24, 2017 04:57
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UmOk posted:I hear ya bro. I mean look at this fuckin K-Mart Muscle Shirt: (insert a CGI Yoda pantomiming the words "my dude, but" in slow motion over 'Duel Of The Fates'.)
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Jun 24, 2017 05:22
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Star wars has a variety of styles, you see, that's why nothing can ever be out of place in it. It is Perfect.
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Jun 24, 2017 05:42
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I'm just glad Han went back to the vest after the jacket in ESB. The vest rocked.
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Jun 24, 2017 12:03
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Mr President posted:I thought the First Order was supposed to be like the modern Republican Party that is rallying behind Trump to try and recreate the Reagan era. I'm not sure Trump had even announced his candidacy yet when they finished filming.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:15
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:I'm not sure Trump had even announced his candidacy yet when they finished filming. Force Awakens wrapped in November 2014 with some minor reshoots (mostly just pickups and insert shots) done in June and July 2015; Trump announced in June 2015. So, yeah, the movie was effectively done (outside of editing, I think Abrams said he was re-cutting the movie well into November) by the time he hit the trail.
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Jun 24, 2017 14:57
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Tender Bender posted:Star wars has a variety of styles, you see, that's why nothing can ever be out of place in it. It is Perfect. This is unironically correct because it's a space fantasy that takes place across a galaxy's worth of planets and societies. The diner scene is stupid because it's awkwardly written to fit a lot of subplot and implications about the universe in a short dialogue, not because it evokes 50s Americana.
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Jun 24, 2017 18:02
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A shifty, filthy bar full of crooks and outlaws is a more universal image than a 50's American diner so I think that's why a lot of people rightfully think it's stupid
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Jun 24, 2017 18:29
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Calaveron posted:A shifty, filthy bar full of crooks and outlaws is a more universal image than a 50's American diner so I think that's why a lot of people rightfully think it's stupid A New Hope was sort of good but had some stupid stuff that didn't fit. I mean they're in space with lasers but then they walk into a wild west saloon?
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Jun 24, 2017 18:41
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Calaveron posted:A shifty, filthy bar full of crooks and outlaws is a more universal image than a 50's American diner so I think that's why a lot of people rightfully think it's stupid Honestly, from personal experience, I have seen way more 50's diners in the universe than bars full of crooks and outlaws.
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Jun 24, 2017 18:49
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Gawd! Why did they use imagery that has cultural signifigance in their own nation for a movie primarily made for their own movie? Don't they realize it's a Space movie? Now let's all oogle about the famous character whose based on Japanese Samurai.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:10
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Covok posted:Gawd! Why did they use imagery that has cultural signifigance in their own nation for a movie primarily made for their own movie? Don't they realize it's a Space movie? Adding to this, Star Wars was born in the 70s, before "sci-fi" as we'd call it now really existed and the genres of "fantasy" and "sci-fi" weren't as separate as we consider them now (especially in literature). It being a mish-mash of martial arts junk food philosophy and cowboys and space wizards and treacherous warlords and pastiches of urban and rural societies from whatever legendary takes on human history is literally what Star Wars is was born from and what it is. And something I've always respected about the movies is how they managed to keep the sensibility of the European comics/etc. that inspired it intact despite the decades of time between trilogies. American sci-fi of the time especially, hell even nerd stuff like Dungeons & Dragons, or computer games like Wizardry, reveled in that mix of magical fantasy settings that include high technology, and you see it even in some of the earliest US examples like the John Carter stories. The idea that a sci-fi setting can't literally have whatever the gently caress anyone thinks would look cool just because in it is very recent. A lot of that notion of what would be "appropriate" in movies in these genres I would think comes down to the realities of budget and what locations/sets/etc. are feasible. Like you know the movie The Beastmaster? The novel it's based on is a road trip across the US with an indigenous protagonist with a laser rifle and the ability to telepathically converse with animals cruising from place to place avoiding the US' fascist rule and surviving off the the rotting skeletons of decaying urban centers. The Conan the Barbarian movie was originally going to be just about the same movie but set in a post-apocalyptic US with mutants instead of snake cultists. Everything else was about the same, how loving nuts would that have been (what we got is one of my favorite movies ever but still). Like you should all watch the movie Krull, it's from 1983 but it's a great cinematic depiction of the "sci-fi" aesthetic seen in plenty of comics/books/etc. up to that point. And even it began life as an official Dungeons & Dragons movie. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 19:30
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Neo Rasa posted:Adding to this, Star Wars was born in the 70s, before "sci-fi" as we'd call it now really existed and the genres of "fantasy" and "sci-fi" weren't as separate as we consider them now (especially in literature). It being a mish-mash of martial arts junk food philosophy and cowboys and space wizards and treacherous warlords and pastiches of urban and rural societies from whatever legendary takes on human history is literally what Star Wars is was born from and what it is. And something I've always respected about the movies is how they managed to keep that sensibility intact despite the decades of time between trilogies. As a Trad gamer that mindset came from really douchey nerds who just had to be all Superior and smug. The division is arbitrary dumb and hurts the most fun parts of the genre. In short blame nerds.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:35
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Covok posted:As a Trad gamer that mindset came from really douchey nerds who just had to be all Superior and smug. The division is arbitrary dumb and hurts the most fun parts of the genre. In short blame nerds.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:39
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This is totally left field here, but I always felt the same people who absolutely needed science fiction and fantasy to be separate are the same people who need superheroes to be objective. You know those guys who are like " if you read Amazing Fantasy 15 you'll see that Spiderman is actually only this powerful and therefore you always lose a fight against the Hulk. And whenever they show him beating the Hulk it's stupid. For that matter Thor is really the most powerful character because blah blah blah." I think you get the point people who are so unimaginative and boring that they can't stand the idea of a good story and must have everything as scientific and dry as possible. For no reason more then so they can feel smug and Superior because they are the only ones who understand things in minut detail. The same people who write fantasy and science fiction genre fiction where 99% of the book is world-building and only 1% is actually readable.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:51
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The diner scene is jarring and out of place of course but I dig the Williams track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpecPKuUYnE
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Jun 24, 2017 20:01
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Yaws posted:The diner scene is jarring and out of place of course but I dig the Williams track: While some of it was removed from Return of the Jedi for "Jedi Rocks," I liked how much this track resembled the music that's played in Jabba's lair and when they're on the ship later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfcg7BfsM90 It owns. People want to talk about stuff in Star Wars that's stupid but actually awesome? "Jizz Wailer" is a valid career name.
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Jun 24, 2017 20:05
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Yaws posted:The diner scene is jarring and out of place of course but I dig the Williams track: This poo poo is hilarious oh my god
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Jun 24, 2017 20:25
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The best prequels soundtrack thing is still everyone that looked at/bought Phantom Menace soundtrack getting the ending spoiled a month before the movie came out because it has a track titled "Death of Qui-Gonn."
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Jun 24, 2017 20:27
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Regarding the cantina being some totally alien thing that would never reference Americana:George Lucas, on the inspiration for the Cantina Band posted:Can you imagine several creatures in a future century finding some 1930s Benny Goodman swing band music in a time capsule or under a rock someplace - and how they might attempt to interpret it?
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Jun 24, 2017 20:42
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I think the 50's diner thing is just a little too on-the-nose in AotC and it's not woven into the movie particularly well.
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Jun 24, 2017 20:56
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Covok posted:The same people who write fantasy and science fiction genre fiction where 99% of the book is world-building and only 1% is actually readable. Pretty much all fantasy novels are like this. I would say at least 99%.
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Jun 24, 2017 21:16
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Lord Hydronium posted:Regarding the cantina being some totally alien thing that would never reference Americana:   The problem with this argument is that the Cantina band certainly references the classic swing band, but it's visually distinct enough, from the instruments to the outfits to the sound that it doesn't feel like a direct reference. It's similar to the uncanny valley, in that while we are familiar with it subconsciously, it doesn't surface in a conscious level acknowledgement that it's a reference to vintage swing bands - some guy in a prop shop got told to kitbash some fake alien instruments together, they don't have to make sound, and it is clearly alien and unfamiliar to the audience.   In AOTC, "Dex's Diner" is directly lifting the visuals from 50's diners and not altering them far enough that it forces the audience to stop and acknowledge that this is a 50's diner shoehorned in a way that doesn't work because Star Wars takes place... in a galaxy far far away. In the bar where we meet Han and Chewbacca in A New Hope we see that it's a bar, but it could be basically any bar. And it has it's own weirdness that makes the audience feel a sense of unfamiliarity and distance from the setting - a dirty, yet technologically advanced future with all the shady elements one would expect on the fringes of the galaxy. From the cups to the jet engine thing to the blue milk, it's all weird and fantastical enough that while we see it as a bar, we don't see it as a specific bar anyone would be familiar with on Planet Earth - and I have drank in some lovely loving dives around the globe, let me tell you. 
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Jun 24, 2017 21:24
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It's fairly different from 50's diners, it's clearly not segregated for one thing.
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Jun 24, 2017 21:29
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Veshpo posted:It's fairly different from 50's diners, it's clearly not segregated for one thing. Doesn't stop Obiwan and Dexter from mocking a minority.
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Jun 24, 2017 21:32
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Yaws posted:I think the 50's diner thing is just a little too on-the-nose in AotC and it's not woven into the movie particularly well. Exactly. The idea of a 50's diner being used as inspiration is fine. The execution is clumsy and lazy. A lot of ya'll seem to be basing your praise for the prequels on the mentality that symbolism or references are automatically good just because they exist.
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Jun 24, 2017 21:43
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By this same ridiculous logic, Star Wars has always been 'sloppy' because it employed human actors instead of being a properly alien all-Muppet film a la Dark Crystal.
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Jun 24, 2017 22:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:By this same ridiculous logic, Star Wars has always been 'sloppy' because it employed human actors instead of being a properly alien all-Muppet film a la Dark Crystal. How does me thinking a scene is lazy independent of its inspirational source match up with that logic at all?
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Jun 24, 2017 22:10
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Tender Bender posted:How does me thinking a scene is lazy independent of its inspirational source match up with that logic at all? Well first of all, because you misunderstand things in terms of 'effort' and 'laziness'.
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Jun 24, 2017 22:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well first of all, because you misunderstand things in terms of 'effort' and 'laziness'. What adjective could I use to describe a lovely scene that would not be turned around to say that I just don't understand it? Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 22:31
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Tender Bender posted:What adjective could I use to describe a lovely scene that would not be turned around to say that I just don't understand it? You seem to be under the impression that 'they' tried to conceal the American Graffiti reference (to what end?), but failed due to sleepiness.
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Jun 24, 2017 22:39
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