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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:again, if people voted on that basis, we'd be living in a very different world Now it'd be naive to think a politician would campaign on it and literally ignore everything else, especially with other good causes to support outside of healthcare. But for healthcare focus Single Payer is a good standard, unless you have an even better solution that will never -ever- come to pass
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Jun 24, 2017 16:35
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I mean I don't think there are any downsides to single payer, political or policy-wise, in 2017 you certainly cannot be a neoliberal and be in favor of singlepayer. neoliberal economics decries all government spending as waste.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:36
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docbeard posted:We probably do need a better way to convince the sort of mostly-healthy idiot who thinks they don't actually need health insurance at all right now that they would benefit from single-payer than gently caress YOU YOU SELFISH rear end in a top hat. well that's easy we give everyone a lovely but treatable cancer and have them deal with the private insurance system for a year or so
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Jun 24, 2017 16:36
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Condiv posted:speaking as someone who had a nice little period of insurancelessness for 6 years, this is not true. even though i didn't get anything terrible during that time, if I had any kind of issue I just had to hope it wasn't something more severe cause i sure as gently caress couldn't afford to get it checked. i remember when i first learned i have winter eczema, a patch appeared on my arm and kept growing over weeks, and not knowing what it was i had no idea what to do. worse, it was turning yellow and gross looking., so i was freaked the hell out that I had some sort of skin fungus and that I was literally rotting away while living. my dad finally spotted me $100 so i could see a dermatologist and I learned I needed special lotions in winter to keep my skin healthy, but i was lucky that I had parents that could do that for me. Yeah, I went a few years in my late 20s mostly doing temp work and basically having no insurance, and I just kind of hoped I never got hurt or sick. This one time, I got into an auto accident on the job (I wasn't driving so there was no way for them to decide it was my fault, and since it was during work hours, workers' comp covered everything, thank Christ) and the doctor who checked me out later was all I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE BEEN WITHOUT IT as if (and bear in mind this was in, like, 2006, so nothing even remotely like the ACA on the horizon) as if it were that simple for someone who was maybe working one week out of every four. (In retrospect, I probably could have gotten some state assistance at the time. It was kind of a dark period of my life though and I wasn't really thinking in those terms.)
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Jun 24, 2017 16:36
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Here's a good labor angle: With affordable and non-employer locked health care you won't have to get a second job to feed your family and keep them alive, you can use that time to actually be alive with your family, and move to wherever without fear. Don't got a family? If not then we don't make laws for vatbabies yet as they're not a viable demographic.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:39
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Condiv posted:you certainly cannot be a neoliberal and be in favor of singlepayer. neoliberal economics decries all government spending as waste. I see the rehabilitation of Tony Blair is proceeding nicely
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Jun 24, 2017 16:39
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I see the rehabilitation of Tony Blair is proceeding nicely he's lying to improve his appeal in these times where neoliberalism is being equated with literally burning the poor for a quick buck. this should have been super obvious to you though since we're discussing a man who lied to his country so he could kill iraqis with his best pal gwb quote:Neoliberalism (neo-liberalism)[1] refers primarily to the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism.[2]:7 These include extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[10] These market-based ideas and the policies they inspired constitute a paradigm shift away from the post-war Keynesian consensus which lasted from 1945 to 1980.[11][12] i know hillary fans like to pretend that neoliberal isn't an actual word with an actual definition, but singlepayer and neoliberals are fundamentally incompatible Condiv has issued a correction as of 16:44 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 16:42
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Condiv posted:he's lying to improve his appeal in these times where neoliberalism is being equated with literally burning the poor for a quick buck. this should have been super obvious to you though since we're discussing a man who lied to his country so he could kill iraqis with his best pal gwb you're fundamentally saying that neoliberalism only exists in America, which we know is wrong
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Jun 24, 2017 16:50
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I mean I don't think there are any downsides to single payer, political or policy-wise, in 2017 It's because in other countries the concept of not having government funded healthcare is really alien.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:52
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etalian posted:It's because in other countries the concept of not having government funded healthcare is really alien.  gently caress up if true.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:53
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Condiv posted:i know hillary fans like to pretend that neoliberal isn't an actual word with an actual definition, but singlepayer and neoliberals are fundamentally incompatible I think the larger point, that single-payer doesn't have to be a position held solely by "radical leftists" (however you want to define that) is a good one, though. It wouldn't be hard, for example, to come up with corporate-friendly arguments in favor of it, or even to pitch it as a means of reining in government spending (on the basis of improved efficiency over the patchwork mess of federal and state systems we've got right now).
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Jun 24, 2017 16:53
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right, single payer adherents talk about how the tax increase on employers will be less than the premiums they're playing, right? all it requires is for capital-friendly politicians to throw insurers overboard in favor of the walmarts and whatnot, and that's not outside the realm of possibility
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Jun 24, 2017 16:56
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single payer would be a huge boon for business which would no longer have to worry about contracting to offer insurance to employees might result in higher payroll tax tho
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Jun 24, 2017 16:57
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:you're fundamentally saying that neoliberalism only exists in America, which we know is wrong uhh no. how do you even think that?
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Jun 24, 2017 16:58
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There's a lot of talk about single payer right now because the ACA is under attack and also because the Dems don't seem to want to do anything beyond just saving the ACA (which they might not even want to do), but if we're talking about having to advocate for issues that materially benefit people, the minimum wage is also a predominant issue on the Left.
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Jun 24, 2017 17:01
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one thing we need to consider is that single payer won't solve racism
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Jun 24, 2017 17:04
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ThndrShk2k posted:But what if he's the underpaid servant to clean up the shitdeck? labor aristocrat. guillotine
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Jun 24, 2017 17:05
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Joementum posted:one thing we need to consider is that single payer won't solve racism will civil rights solve racism? --woke twitter hot take 2019
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Jun 24, 2017 17:09
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the most hosed up thing about "singlepayer is for helping white people!!!" argument is the how many black people don't have adequate healthcare and don't have adequate insurance. my ex-roomate was black, and he and I went seperate ways 8 or 9 years ago. 4 years ago, i heard from his girlfriend that he had died. he had had an asthma attack and he couldn't afford an emergency inhaler. back when he and i were living together, there used to be an otc inhaler you could get from walmart that he used. apparently they stopped selling that and he didn't really have any way to treat his asthma anymore. and one day he had a nasty attack and suffocated. if we had singlepayer he'd still be alive. if we had sane drug pricing and otc laws, he'd still be alive. over here, i can buy an emergency inhaler, no prescription, for approximately $15. there's just no reason he had to die, and it's entirely the US' hosed up healthcare system to blame for his entirely avoidable death Condiv has issued a correction as of 17:20 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 17:15
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:you're fundamentally saying that neoliberalism only exists in America, which we know is wrong what a blatantly dishonest response
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Jun 24, 2017 17:16
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Will ending racism solve racism?
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Jun 24, 2017 17:16
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I don't want Trump's kids to get free healthcare.
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Jun 24, 2017 17:18
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Joementum posted:one thing we need to consider is that single payer won't solve racism Blackness is a pre-existing condition
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Jun 24, 2017 17:22
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SKULL.GIF posted:what a blatantly dishonest response wj, one of the last few bastions of succ in the succ zone 
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Jun 24, 2017 17:22
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Joementum posted:I don't want Trump's kids to get free healthcare. too bad, under single payer they'd still pay no taxes due to being technically homeless and jobless despite being the beneficiaries of millions of dollars of spending by the Eric and Donald Jr. Trump Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to improving the lives of the chromosomally-challenged children of terrible presidents
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Jun 24, 2017 17:22
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Joementum posted:I don't want Trump's kids to get free healthcare. We have to make sacrifices for progress
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Jun 24, 2017 17:23
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Joementum posted:one thing we need to consider is that single payer won't solve racism given how much resistance to welfare programs is rooted in poor whites not liking it when the government spends money on people who don't look like them it's quite possible that solving racism would enable single payer
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Jun 24, 2017 17:24
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do you realize how many insurance company ceos would be out of a job if we nationalized the health insurance industry?
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Jun 24, 2017 17:26
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Fallen Hamprince posted:given how much resistance to welfare programs is rooted in poor whites not liking it when the government spends money on people who don't look like them it's quite possible that solving racism would enable single payer neoliberal policies sure have helped with the racism problem huh
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Jun 24, 2017 17:26
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Fallen Hamprince posted:given how much resistance to welfare programs is rooted in poor whites not liking it when the government spends money on people who don't look like them it's quite possible that solving racism would enable single payer that's why we spend money on everyone instead of means testing things to death
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Jun 24, 2017 17:27
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Darkman Fanpage posted:do you realize how many insurance company ceos would be out of a job if we nationalized the health insurance industry? My step brother doesn't work for insurance anymore so I'm from Philly and I say kill em all
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Jun 24, 2017 17:31
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Great news for the Tulsi fans https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/878379380757729280
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Jun 24, 2017 17:32
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Condiv posted:that's why we spend money on everyone instead of means testing things to death they aren't mad that rich people aren't getting welfare too, they're mad that other poor people who "don't deserve it" are getting welfare
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Jun 24, 2017 17:32
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Fallen Hamprince posted:they aren't mad that rich people aren't getting welfare too, they're mad that other poor people who "don't deserve it" are getting welfare that's republicans you're talking about. we're not trying to get their votes cause that's dumb
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Jun 24, 2017 17:40
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Condiv posted:that's republicans you're talking about. we're not trying to get their votes cause that's dumb
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Jun 24, 2017 17:42
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joy doesn't seem to know that the emo girl is the hero of every one of these movies https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/878656292688199680
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Jun 24, 2017 17:53
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Joementum posted:joy doesn't seem to know that the emo girl is the hero of every one of these movies I've seen mean girls, but I don't understand wtf this lady is even trying to say? Leftists are emos I guess? lol
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Jun 24, 2017 17:55
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the teachers are Russia and the evil vice principal is putin, that much is obvious
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Jun 24, 2017 17:58
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Who is the lesbian gym teacher tho
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Jun 24, 2017 17:59
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fits my needs posted:I've seen mean girls, but I don't understand wtf this lady is even trying to say? Leftists are emos I guess? lol was gonna make a joke to the tune of, "well yeah leftists love black things" but nah not even 
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