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EagerSleeper posted:But I felt that scene might have been written as if to allow those who don't care about anything other than 'hey, finally some action' or use word of mouth to bring sales. I get what you mean. Upthread, POOL IS CLOSED mentioned the old Nasuverse VNs, which I actually suspect of being guilty of both having and eating their cake in this respect; those sex scenes are way too absurd to not be trolling, in my opinion, but they're also way too extensive to not be at least a semi-serious attempt to appeal to the H-game market. This one, though, I think was just enough to get the point across.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:42
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To be honest, that scene felt more rapey than even some of the rape-like scenes I've seen, and I'm really not quite sure why. On another topic, anyone want to see if we can solve Beato's last riddle (episode 4)? BurningStone posted:Remember we've got red that guarantees the identity of all corpses. So you can have Shannon playing dead, or Shannon really dead, or even Shannon not there and the observers lying. But you can't have a different body made to look like Shannon's. So I don't see what a stash of bodies would do. She guaranteed the identity of all unidentified corpses. Shannon and Krauss were the two identifiable ones, because they both still had half a face. ZiegeDame posted:So who wants to talk about something else. I'll start. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why your view is that Kanon's been on the island for far longer than anyone else on the island has realized, and somehow no one knew about it. We know that Battler spent his time on the island with George and Jessica, and when he went searching for the gold, it was with them (and implied Shannon). Kanon being there and meeting Battler feels like a bit of a stretch unless George and/or Jessica also know about it. (Speaking of which, I really should remember to read episode 3 under the view that George is an accomplice.)
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Jun 23, 2017 18:43
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So what? Will Beato "expose her heart" in order to save Battler, instead of Battler exposing it? Will it be enough to stop Erika from... that? Prof, don't sweat forgetting the warning. I haven't checked if you put it up now, but mistakes see going to happen. But this scene is really trying to get us to stop sympathizing with Erika, if we ever did. I understand she might have a lovely past, too, but her actions now are completely reprehensible, and hers alone. She'll get no sympathy from me.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:49
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Confused Llama posted:I get what you mean. Upthread, POOL IS CLOSED mentioned the old Nasuverse VNs, which I actually suspect of being guilty of both having and eating their cake in this respect; those sex scenes are way too absurd to not be trolling, in my opinion, but they're also way too extensive to not be at least a semi-serious attempt to appeal to the H-game market. This one, though, I think was just enough to get the point across. Hey thank you for understanding what I was going for.  You're probably right, and I'll just kick back and wait to see how things will happen in the next update.Edit: Prof, can you put a warning at the part where the scene begins so that way people can know where the scene starts? EagerSleeper fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 19:10
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God, I feel sick to my stomach having just skimmed that.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:13
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Adjusted. Is that good?
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Jun 23, 2017 19:26
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Yeah, I think the warning is good.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:59
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There's two Kanons. Didn't they say that the names are fake? Maybe the -non names are like titles that are given to multiple people. And Kanon's corpse is just a pre-dead person that was placed there?
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Jun 23, 2017 20:10
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Well that was hosed up. And I don't think it was a coincidence, not just on a meta level with the intent to upset the audience either, I'm getting nasty thoughts about why Beatrice exists, though from the implication of Kinzo moulding his child to be his wife I was already leaning that way. Looking at it from another side, my first thought on that bit, with Battlers avatar disappearing and stuff was 'flashback' and not the story kind, the PTSD kind, that with my theory about him having another personality makes different dark thought show up for me, though yeah, that might be the personal bias thing :// gently caress I really hope I'm wrong.. Edit: actually, something positive, if still pretty hosed, props for having a male victim/female rapist, it's not exactly represention I'd go looking for, but having it shown as serious rather than the joke it's treated as in most media is nice
Graylien fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 20:36
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I'm somewhat thinking 'Battler being killed' in episode 4 is metaphorical in the same way that we were originally considering for episode 6 (or ends in him shooting himself). But that doesn't help at all, and is pretty easily guessable, so I'm relatively certain that's not it. Also just noticed while skimming that castling was mentioned in episode 3. Tired Moritz posted:There's two Kanons. Didn't they say that the names are fake? Maybe the -non names are like titles that are given to multiple people. And Kanon's corpse is just a pre-dead person that was placed there? Not 100% what this is in response to, but no corpses exist except those of characters who have appeared in the story.
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Jun 23, 2017 20:59
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Then it's a dummy that Shannon calls Kanon because she's a sad person. Like Maria and Sakutaro.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:02
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Oh goddammit. I'm casually skimming through the old thread and found this in the Bern's letter side-update: Now doesn't that sound familiar.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:31
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I'm glad someone found that but man it took longer than I assumed
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Jun 23, 2017 22:15
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I forgot that existed. So Erika/Bern just cannot believe that someone is not cheating on her. That's... depressing. Again. That's hella paranoid, too. It reminds me of problems I have sometimes. Almost wanna do an amateur diagnosis on her, but I won't. That would be projecting.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:26
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Welcome to Umineko
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Jun 23, 2017 22:36
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The rest of Bernkastel's Letter is also probably good to go back to, given the things that were covered during the last episode. In particular, this: Seems like a direct note regarding trick retcons.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:57
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Cyouni posted:I'm still trying to wrap my head around why your view is that Kanon's been on the island for far longer than anyone else on the island has realized, and somehow no one knew about it. We know that Battler spent his time on the island with George and Jessica, and when he went searching for the gold, it was with them (and implied Shannon). Kanon being there and meeting Battler feels like a bit of a stretch unless George and/or Jessica also know about it. Beatrice lived on the island for basically the entire time the siblings were growing up and the only one to ever know about her was Rosa. We know Kanon is a central figure in this story, so he has to have some sort of connection to Battler or the murders lose a lot of emotional weight. The oddness of their first meeting suggests at least that Kanon knows Battler somehow. (Even if it's just knows of him.) We know cliff baby exists, and is 19 years old. We know the true territory lord is 19 years old. Someone has to be that cliff baby, and there's only really 3 options. And 2 of them have established histories from more than 3 years ago. That's really fuckin' weird now that I write it out. Everyone else on the island, we know something about their past. We know what Hideyoshi was doing during the war. We know what the past 18 years of Kyrie's life was. We know where Shannon has been working since she was 6. We even know what Gohda was up to before he was hired. We don't know poo poo about Kanon beyond the 3 years ago. Why not, when we know something about literally everyone else? The only reason I can think of is because revealing information about Kanon's past would be giving away the mystery.
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Jun 24, 2017 00:21
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tiistai posted:I'm glad someone found that but man it took longer than I assumed Seriously. I was waiting for them to find that for months. I would def recommend re-reading Bernkastels letter around now. As utterly obtuse as it is. oath2order fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 00:44
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ZiegeDame posted:Beatrice lived on the island for basically the entire time the siblings were growing up and the only one to ever know about her was Rosa. From what I can recall of Kanon, he's another Fukuin House baby just like Renon and Manon. So, in an orphanage until he was "of age to serve". Shannon starting as a servant at 6 years old is the real questionable one. I'll also point out we know pretty much nothing about Kumasawa or Genji. We've just gone "they've been servants for ages", but if you actually consider what we know of them, it's practically nothing. oath2order posted:Seriously. I was waiting for them to find that for months. Hey, we only got the relevant piece of information to make that comparison less than a month ago. We've been slow on it, but not that slow. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 02:08
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Cyouni posted:The point I'm trying to make is that not overly likely that Battler would be able to meet with hypothetical Kanon with neither George nor Jessica finding out in any way. Unlike Rosa with her siblings, he actually liked his cousins and spent time with them. A lot of time, from the descriptions we get. quote:From what I can recall of Kanon, he's another Fukuin House baby just like Renon and Manon. So, in an orphanage until he was "of age to serve". Shannon starting as a servant at 6 years old is the real questionable one. We know Genji, as part of his duties serving Kinzo the past decades, arranged for the boat captain to deliver supplies to the secret dock on the back side of the island. We know Kumasawa taught a Beatrice how to do 'magic.' As far as we know, Kanon spent the first 13-16 years of his life sitting in an orphanage doing nothing but starting at a wall. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 03:19
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Honestly, that also pushes the S=K theory. It's easy to explain Kanon 's lack of history there, because he' s only existed for a few years.
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Jun 24, 2017 11:46
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 Shannon and Kanon had already finished walking 19 steps, their backs still facing each other. When the demons giving the trial gave the signal, they would both turn... and settle this. Each had one of the dueling pistols given by the demons in their hands. The bullets... promised certain death no matter where on the body they hit. This duel would not end... until one of them died...  BGM: My Dear  "..."George and Jessica... just quietly watched the ones they loved... They had already entrusted all of their thoughts to them... and their fates. Just watching over their partners... was now the only way they could show their trust.   Shannon and Kanon... stood quietly, with their backs turned. They had already resolved the thoughts they had gathered over those many days. The next time they laid eyes on the other... Nothing would be asked of them except pulling that trigger. Beato was the only one who still had no determination or resolution with regard to this duel. The closer that moment came, the less she understood. The love between George and Shannon wasn't standing in the way of the love between Jessica and Kanon or vice versa. Why, when both sides could find happiness, were they forced to kill each other...?   "...Little sister... We are not permitted to do anything but watch..." "Zepar-san, Furfur-san...! Why... why this duel?! This is no trial of love! You really are demons! You just want to enjoy watching one of the pairs fall apart, don't you...?!!" "Silence." "You'll get in the way of the lovers." "You're the ones getting in their way!! One will fall! The one who loves that person will grieve!! If only you two weren't around, no one would be sad!!"  ""That is not true."" "If we hadn't set up this duel-" "Then both pairs would have fallen apart. This duel is necessary." "I... haven't been able to accept that since the beginning...!! You say their love can't be successful without a miracle of magic?! What does love need other than a pair who love each other?! This duel is meaningless!! So stop it, you two!! Shannon and Kanon both!! Why must you fight each other to the death, when you were once as close as true siblings?! I just can't... understand!!!"Everyone should have been able to hear Beato's yell. However, no one's expression changed.  "...That's right. I'm impressed that you noticed." "This is love's truth." "...What is...?!!" "Normally, love needs nothing more than two people who love each other." "Therefore, when there are not 'two people', we must use a duel to make that number become 'two'." "I could understand if it were a duel between two people fighting over one woman! If it were a duel to cut three people in love down to two...!! But here we have two pairs of people!! The world formed by each pair is complete, isn't it?!! There's nothing compelling them to fight!!" "A world can only be born, love can only be fulfilled... when two people gather." "That is why this duel is necessary." "So that they can reach that number of people." "A, are you saying that furniture is subhuman, so they don't count as a single human...?!" ""Exactly. Furniture is subhuman. That's why furniture and a human cannot add up to two people."" "That's insane! Status has nothing to do with it if both of them love each other!!" ""No, it does!!"" "Do you really think that the status of a pair of lovers doesn't matter?!" "Is a man who has a wife allowed to love someone else? Is a woman who has a husband allowed to love someone else?" "Are you allowed to fall in love with your parents? Are you allowed to fall in love with your children? There are many situations where status makes love unallowable!!" "Th, then just what is furniture?!! Why mustn't furniture fall in love?!!!" ""Because they don't possess a full soul!"" "Shannon, Kanon, and the piece version of you as well!!" "All of you are furniture! Subhuman beings who do not possess a complete soul!!" "There is only one thing necessary to love a human! That is the possession of a complete soul!! That's why a pair in love can create a world!!" "For example, do you think a man with a wife has the right to love another woman?" "...Of course not. If he loved two women, neither would get a full person's worth of love. A man such as that would be unworthy of love." "See? There are plenty of statuses and humans who have no right to love a person!! As long as both people feel love, nothing else matters? That's just the hypocrisy of naive love!!" "We cannot forgive humans who falsely pretend that they have the right to love!! We cannot forgive the love of subhuman beings, of those who do not make up the minimum number of people to create a world!!"  "...Zepar-sama, Furfur-sama." "Our hearts... are ready." BGM: ALIVE The pair bidding farewell quietly asked for the signal to be given. Zepar nodded silently, then walked to a place that could be seen by both of them. Furfur spoke in a voice quiet enough to avoid distracting the two duelists. "...Watch." "Watch the duel to see which of the lovers will fall apart...?" "No, this isn't a duel to see who falls apart. This is a duel to make true love succeed." "...I... don't understand... what you two are saying...!" "No, you must understand. This marks... the birth of a human who can truly love another." "I don't... understand...!!!" "No matter which wins, please support them. Right now, their days as furniture will end." "The signal is simple. I will count to three. When I reach three, the duel will commence." "Understood." "...Same here." "If both miss, the duel will be temporarily suspended. You will be given bullets again and will start over from the beginning, with your backs to each other." "...I guess it'll repeat until it's all settled..." "Zepar. How many times have you seen this sort of duel in the past?" "Of course, I have seen it many times." "...Usually, how many times do they need to face off before it's over?" "In almost all cases, it is decided in the first round." "Everyone must be really good shots..." "That's not it. If one side misses, the other can corner them at their leisure and shoot. If the first bullet misses, then you've lost your chance at victory." "However, if you take too long, you'll lose before you can even pull the trigger." "...If you're going to lose anyway, you'd at least want to have pulled the trigger first."  Video: Let Us Be BlessedBGM: Engage of Marionette     "One." "Two."      ""Three.""In the golden rose garden, when the number three was yelled, the sound of gunfire rang out once... Even the people watching couldn't tell whether that was a single gun firing... or the sound of both going off at the same time...  BGM: None "...Sh, Shannon-san..." "...No. Shannon fell before the gun fired..." "Nn... gah..."Jessica's distressed expression... was enough to explain what had happened...  BGM: Life There was no bullet wound anywhere on her body. At the time of the signal, Shannon had thrown herself to the ground... dodging the bullet. It had been a bet. If Kanon had turned around and taken the time to aim carefully before shooting, then he would have shot her as she lay there. However, if Kanon shot as soon as he turned around, she would be able to dodge it. Kanon had also made a bet. He did not underestimate Shannon's skill with a firearm. He was fully aware that hoping Shannon would be timid enough to let him shoot first... would result in him losing before even pulling the trigger. So, he had decided to shoot right away. And, he had predicted that when he shot, Shannon would reflexively pull the trigger too. Since he was already planning to shoot right away, he was sure that his readiness would allow him to shoot with accuracy. If Kanon had cautiously turned around, and Shannon had shot instantly with the strength of her will, then Kanon wouldn't even have been able to pull the trigger. So, Kanon hadn't been impatient. The two had simply given it their all, left their fates to the heavens, and reached this result.   "...I didn't imagine... that my quick-tempered sister... wouldn't shoot at all..." "I'm surprised too. I didn't think that old, prudent Kanon-kun... would shoot as soon as he turned."As Shannon quietly pointed the barrel at him, she slowly walked forward. She planned on cautiously closing the gap until she reached a distance from which she could hit with even more certain accuracy. And Kanon... had already lost any means of fighting back. He could only try to dodge Shannon's bullet... and place his bet on the second round. If they both thought this, then they were wrong. "...!!" "This isn't... over yet!!!" This duel could only be settled by a bullet, but he wasn't the only one who had a bullet. If he could steal Shannon's gun away from her, he could turn this fight around...! And, if Shannon calmly shot through Kanon, it would end! The odds that Shannon would miss. The odds that he could get close enough to her before she fired. Kanon bet all the chips he had on these. Shannon could draw Kanon in until the last second, then shoot him from a closer distance. She could also pull the trigger just before he reached her, and they would start over from the beginning even if she missed. Shannon kept her gun pointing at Kanon's forehead as she compared these options until the final moment. She led her shot, calculating the distance he had already moved and the time it would take to pull the trigger. The goddess of fortune smiles impartially.   "D, drat it!!!"Getting past the final moment Shannon could have shot, Kanon barreled into her chest. He then swung his hand up and knocked the gun Shannon held into the air. That strike sent Shannon's gun flying into the sky. At the same time, Kanon's gun also flew from his hand and danced through the air. The two guns danced a rondo through the sky, reached their peak, and began to fall. By that time, neither knew whose gun was which. The two guns were exactly the same. Everything about them was identical. There was no way to tell them apart. However, there was one difference. Only one of them had a bullet inside. The pair raised their hands to the sky, trying to grasp their fate... their miracle. It was as though... they were trying to grasp the wings of a descending angel of miracles. The pair looked up at the brilliant sky... and entrusted everything to the goddess of fortune. Then, they each grabbed one of the guns out of the air, and after dancing a momentary rondo, their arms crossed each other. Even that had been like a dance. Then, they each pressed the barrel of their gun up against the other's forehead, both as steady as a rock.   Even they could not know... which gun held the bullet. When they both pressed the triggers, one would die, and one would remain alive. The match would end. George and Jessica wouldn't know how it had turned out until that moment came. ...However, was it really impossible for the two holding the guns to know...? The barrel of Kanon's gun, which had already been fired, must have been warm. And the barrel of the other gun, which Shannon hadn't fired, should have been ice-cold. So, perhaps the pair of them... did realize which gun was which. And yet, both expressions were solemn, filled with absolutely no doubts in their own fate until the moment the trigger would be pulled. "..." "..." "Don't be sad. We'll meet again soon... in the Golden Land." "We should have done this much sooner." "That way, we would never have to be reunited." "It's alright. Considering what day this is, even this duel is just a farce." "You're right... If we're just going to revive in the Golden Land anyway, it really is just a farce. Then, I'll see you later." "Yeah. You too." "So long."  BGM: ALIVE  "Hey, what's going on?! Hang in there!!"Suddenly, Kanon fell to the floor as if he'd had an attack of anemia. It had happened without any warning beforehand, so everyone rushed up to him in alarm. What they saw surprised them. There was a single strand of blood across his forehead, making it look as though it had cracked open...  "H, huh? H, how..." "What happened? Wh, what's going on...?"Trying to get a look at the wound, Gohda wiped Kanon's forehead with a handkerchief. However, his forehead was perfectly smooth, without any trace of a wound. And yet, almost as though it was seeping through his skin, blood was pouring out...  "Wh, what are you doing?! Stop the bleeding already!!" "B, but...!! E, even though there's no wound, the blood... the blood won't stop coming...!" "Hang in there, Kanon-kun!! Kanon-kun!! Y, Yoshiya-kuuuuuuuuuun!!!" "..."Kanon's forehead was pale, and though his eyes were open, they had lost the light of the living. Just as though... he was a puppet whose strings had been cut... he passed away...  "...So long, Kanon-kun. And... thank you."Jessica dashed up to Kanon's corpse, held it, pressed her forehead against his, and, as the still hot remaining blood was smeared over her forehead as well, she sobbed... "...Shannon..." "...George-san. We've... won. Now... I am finally able... to love you. Finally..."Shannon... leaned against George's chest... as though the strings holding her up had been cut. George held her in silence...  There was nothing in the golden rose garden except the wind that carried golden flower petals... and the sound of Jessica's grieving sobs...  "...Is your trial for us finished now?" "It is. Congratulations. You two were the ones who remained." "We will give you our blessing. But please, don't forget. You are now responsible for nurturing your love." "...Please, take good care of the seed of love that this miracle has created." "...Of course. I swear it to her and you two." "And now, let Shannon have the miracle of magic." "Now, your soul will become human. You will become a full person." When Zepar and Furfur faced the heavens and yelled, the miracle of love... gathered the souls around Shannon. They came from the losers of the trial. From Kanon, who had been defeated. And from Beato, who had dropped out. Slowly, the bodies of the two began to break down into flecks of gold dust... "...What is..." "Wh, what's going on here...?! No one ever said that the losers would disappear!!"As she yelled, Beato the Elder supported the body of her fading little sister. However, the two demons were smiling quietly. "Kanon has disappeared because he died. Beato was born to love Battler and is disappearing because she has lost the qualifications to do that." "...It is very fair. If you had survived, the other two would have vanished." "Hang in there, little sister, hang in there!! Weren't you going to solve Battler's closed room and save him?! What are you doing, getting finished off in a place like this?!! You call yourself a part of our complete form?!!"  "Wh, whaat?! Why now...?!!" "...After all, when I was born, I was told to love Battler-san and be loved by him... That was my purpose. So, I don't really know... why I like him..." "P, people don't need a reason to like each other!! Don't disappear!! If you disappear, who will save Battler?! Little sister, Beato! Beatriiiiiiiiiiiiice!!"...Why... is it... that I like Battler-san...? ...'Mother'?   "...Well, I'd probably like a Jessica-ish girl. If I'm crude, why shouldn't she be too? It'd probably be just perfect to have a rough, relaxed relationship, where we could mess around without worrying about gender and talk dirty with no worries...! So if I ever get a girlfriend, I'd like someone who I could joke around with all the time...!"  Take the golden hair he likes. Take the blue eyes he likes. Take this personality that matches his. And then, you must love him in my place. And then, if possible, you must be loved by him. I... can no longer love him. Please, take my feelings that went unfulfilled, my feelings that I couldn't hold back, and make my wish come true.  From this day forward, you will become the master of this island and wait for the day that he comes to fulfill his promise. From this day forward, you will do this in my place. So, from this day forward, you will no longer be me. Please forgive me for pushing all of my worries onto you, while I alone try to find happiness. From this day forward, you have the right to hate everything. From this day forward, you are the Golden Witch, Beatrice. And, one day... You will destroy everything, revive everything. You will bring blessings to all lovers.  From this day forward, you will no longer be me. From this day forward, I will no longer be you. The two of us will split apart a single soul and share it. And though, of course, neither of us will possess a complete soul... I'm sure our dreams will be more numerous than those of humans.  No one will be able to see your form. However, I alone can see you. And if you are loved by many people... I'm sure that everyone will be able to see you someday.   BGM: Loreley  "...A, are we... dre... dreaming...?" "I, insane... What kind of joke is this...?? Well?!" "G, g, get Doctor Nanjo!! Call Doctor Nanjo here...!!" "...Gohda. That is enough."Genji, who had been calm and silent through the whole thing, finally spoke. And, those were the most reasonable words spoken. If they called Nanjo here, then what...? Not only was there no arm to take the pulse of... there wasn't even a forehead to feel the heat of. Like the leftover snow on a summer day, Kanon's form was... ...By now, not even a trace remained. His form... had sparkled with a spray of gold... and vanished completely... "...Where...? Where did he go?! Where's Yoshiya-kun?! Yoshiya-kun, Yoshiya-kuuuuuuun!!!!"  "...Kanon-san..." "By now, no one's eyes can see us. That means that we are no longer in their world. However, we are right here." "...You're right. We... are here." "For us, a body is nothing more than a cage made of flesh. There's no need to be sad." "...But, I do feel sad for her. Jessica-san..." "This is all... my sin. This is why furniture isn't supposed to love." "...What will you do now?" "Though I have lost my form, though I can no longer talk to her, and even though if Jessica ever talks to me... I can do nothing except nod behind her back, I will be by her side." "...I think that's wonderful." "What will you do...?" "...I want to save Battler-san... from a closed room..." After looking a bit taken aback, Kanon laughed gently. Beato, who hadn't expected to be laughed at, looked a little sour. "Wh, why are you laughing...? This is very important to me..." "But it's a closed room. That's only a problem for humans who have bodies." "...Huh? Ah..." "We have already been released from our cage of flesh. How could a closed room hinder us?" "...A, are you sure about that...? I mean, there's a chain lock, and duct tape seals, and red truth...!" "I see. So, you weren't from the world of pieces, but a being from a higher-level world. That's probably why your limitations are different from ours. Ah, well."Kanon stretched. It looked as though he was about to head out somewhere.  "...Kanon-san..." "Seeing as you're a fellow loser, okay. I'll go for you. I'll go to the guest room in the mansion, let Battler-sama out, set the chain behind me, and hide in the closet in his place. Is that enough?" "I, I'm glad for the sentiment... However, even if you wanted to leave the cousins' room, because of Erika-san's seals..."Unlike the next room over, the cousins' room where Kanon was had been guaranteed to be a complete closed room, even counting the windows. Not only did he have no way to save Battler, but he couldn't even escape himself... "...In that case, use your magic to give me power." "My... magic...?" "Yeah. Use your magic on me." "W, wait... I don't even know how..." "Aren't you Beatrice, the Golden Witch...?" "I am a witch, but... ummm... I don't even know about closed room tricks, much less magic..." BGM: The Sin "What a witch is...?" "A witch is... Not the one who solves puzzles." "...Not the one... who solves puzzles...?" "Yeah, that's right. If you're a witch, why are you clutching at your head because of someone else's puzzles? That's not a witch's job, right?" "Th, then, what is... a witch's job...?" "The Golden Witch I know... would have used insane magic to create a puzzle that no one could understand, muddling matters and sneering. Create a horrible riddle that no one can get, spin everyone around, and bad-mouth them. You aren't supposed to clutch at your head worrying about your opponents' puzzles, That's your opponents' job." "Worrying... is my opponents' job..." "Don't worry about how Ushiromiya Battler got out of the closed room. A chain lock closed room? How trivial. You need to create a much more spectacular, ultimate closed room... and make it so that they're the ones worrying. I'll even lend a hand." "I'm... not the one who worries..." "That's for them to do. It's about time they learned the true terror of the Golden Witch Beatrice, the one who can create endless closed room tricks of the most horrific kind, tricks that can make even the demons of hell prostrate themselves in shock...!" "...A closed room... even more horrific than Battler-san's..." "We've already gotten our hands on one, haven't we?" "A... horrific... closed... room..."...ah... In the back of Beato's mind, images she remembered began to flit by, one after another... the mansion, the guesthouse, the rose garden...  Trick. Mistake. Lure. Taunt. Trap. Laugh together. ...Do you know about this trick...? I think I've seen something like it in a book before... Beato's eyes opened wider and wider... Countless lights circled around her, swallowing her up. "And one more thing." "...Wh, what...?" "That's no way for the witch of closed rooms to talk."  Pronoun localization comment - 'watashi' is the first-person pronoun used by Chick Beato. 'warawa' is the one used by the original Beatrice. In other words... 
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Jun 24, 2017 14:50
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So there we are. Here's Sayo creating Beatrice as a receptacle of her love for Battler, which she now finds intolerable because he won't come back to Rokkenjima. We have Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice becoming one person. And, of course, Beatrice('s ghost?) is now ready to kick some rear end.
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Jun 24, 2017 15:02
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idonotlikepeas posted:And, of course, Beatrice('s ghost?) is now ready to kick some rear end. It's about time.
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Jun 24, 2017 15:21
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ALIVE is such a good song
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Jun 24, 2017 16:04
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Battler, when asked what kind of girl he like, immediately responds with "my cousin."
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Jun 24, 2017 16:08
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Also add on a quick shot at Rudolf in the middle of that too.ProfessorProf posted:
Also man they weren't kidding when they called it a 'confession'.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:40
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ZiegeDame posted:Battler, when asked what kind of girl he like, immediately responds with "my cousin." fUCKk. We keep joking about this, but it keeps happening for real! Meanwhile, Beatrice is coming back.  I can't wait to hear ahahaha.wav again.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:54
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ZiegeDame posted:Battler, when asked what kind of girl he like, immediately responds with "my cousin." This family, my god. Ignoring that...A Beatrice representing her love for Battler? How many drat Beatrices are there now? Is this why Chick-Beatrice was created on the original game board, so that she could play the game of torturing Battler without being tormented by her "love" for him? Seems we have more compartmentalization, but it didn't quite work in that case; her feelings still came through to me. You don't get that mad, feel that betrayed, over somebody unless the feeling was strong. But now that it's done... like we thought, the one room containing everyone else is the kicker to the mystery, because now, his death in the Duel of Love means that Kanon is "out of the room"
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Jun 24, 2017 17:01
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http://polsy.org.uk/play/yt/?vurl=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FkXbmuBJEfZc
Kinu Nishimura fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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Jun 24, 2017 17:20
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ZiegeDame posted:Battler, when asked what kind of girl he like, immediately responds with "my cousin." resurgam40 posted:This family, my god. Well, hey, that's not totally fair. This is 12-year-old Battler we're talking about. A 12-year-old boy saying "yeah, if I were ever to date someone, I'd like it to be someone like my cousin Jessica 'cause she's totally awesome to hang out with" seems completely reasonable to me. Then the nascent hormones adding "and while we're fantasizing, it would be cool if she also happened to look like a Playboy model" also seems pretty realistic.
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Jun 24, 2017 17:46
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And now the game is starting to make sense. Zeper and Furfur keep going on about "the miracle of magic" being able to combine the pair of lovers, but the story has been emphasizing how "magic" is only capable of doing what you alone are doing with your own power. So I'm starting to realize, really understand, that this love game is both bullshit as gently caress, and an eye-opener. Since Kanon, Shannon, and Beato were constantly told that they were unable to succeed in their love without playing this game, I thought that the game was just a sick joke at the expense of the 3. But I realize now, that in the end, someone wins. Someone has to win or completely lose, by virtue of the game design. And that talk of how a man splitting his love between 2 women really drove in that realization that the trio have the ability to love, but they need to choose who to love. Shannon cannot keep pretending to be Kanon and Beato and love George at the same time. She has to go all-in on this, or nothing will come of the relationship. Or she does. Or he does. Sorry if this seems a bit rambling or retreading old stuff, I'm kind of tired. The "magic" stuff was a hint regarding the truth about Beato after all.
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Jun 24, 2017 18:11
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Now I'm wondering if Jessica is supposed to be a natural blonde. My ignorance of genetics is vast but it shouldn't be possible, right? The only novelty in the update was the reason for Shannon creating Beatrice: to appeal to Battler. 12 year old Battler, too. That... can't be healthy.
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Jun 24, 2017 18:41
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BurningStone posted:Now I'm wondering if Jessica is supposed to be a natural blonde. My ignorance of genetics is vast but it shouldn't be possible, right? Her dad is blonde.
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Jun 24, 2017 18:50
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bman in 2288 posted:The "magic" stuff was a hint regarding the truth about Beato after all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDajqW561KM
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Jun 24, 2017 18:51
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So I light of this last update I'm starting to get the feeling that this story was never a mystery at all. It was always about something different altogether, and really that was clear from the start, but I was always assuming consistency of the mystery was always the top priority. If Beato is going to save Battler by introducing an even more complex puzzle that Erika cannot solve, and Battler can escape his room by switching places with a person who does not exist, then the how of the mystery was never meant to be solved, and it was only about the who and the why. And that's fine, there's some really good poo poo in this story that has nothing to do with solving a mystery, but still. I'm gonna have to suspend this train of thought until we see where this goes.
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Jun 24, 2017 18:58
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Right. Let's consider this now. Episode 1 Hideyoshi is either blind or in on it for the short time until he dies. I'm not sure what the point of this is given he's dead without the chance to do anything. Episode 2 Gohda and Rosa are accomplices. Episode 3 there's no holes. Episode 4 all the adults and servants are accomplices. Episode 5 is irrelevant because Erika sees both Shannon and Kanon in the room at the same time, thus her viewpoint is untrustworthy. Have I missed anything?
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Jun 24, 2017 18:58
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MonsterEnvy posted:Her dad is blonde. I guess I have a stricter definition for blonde, but looking at the pictures, yes, they aren't too different. Hard to believe Natsuhi contributed genes for even lighter hair, but, as I said, my ignorance of genetics is vast.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:25
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Hold on, why is the diagram for the coins puzzle in the set of images of closed rooms? Also the cheese puzzle. Shannon=Kanon doesn't actually do anything to help closed rooms, and I ignored the cheese puzzle because it was a lead-in to the coin one. Perhaps that was a mistake.
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Jun 24, 2017 19:40
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BurningStone posted:I guess I have a stricter definition for blonde, but looking at the pictures, yes, they aren't too different. Hard to believe Natsuhi contributed genes for even lighter hair, but, as I said, my ignorance of genetics is vast. Natsuhi's hair is brown, which means she could conceivably have blonde hair genes that aren't expressed. (Blonde hair is recessive. Sort of. It's a little complicated.)
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Jun 24, 2017 19:51
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