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What is going to be your favorite offseason storyline? This poll is closed. |
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| The Big3 Tourney |
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67 | 22.41% |
| Will Lakers draft Ball |
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40 | 13.38% |
| Where will the Pauls go |
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54 | 18.06% |
| Will LeBron jump ship to the Spurs or ?? |
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41 | 13.71% |
| Will every team in the league just pivot towards tanking |
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97 | 32.44% |
| Total: | 210 votes | ||
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I'm super high on Butler. Especially because he's been so successful playing for a garbage organization with a poo poo coach. I think he is a top 10 player. He easily could be the 2nd best player on a champion team and could probably get to the conference finals/finals on a team perfectly built for him. I was debating the other day if he is better than PG. George has more upside I think but Butler has played better so far and seems to be more consistent. I'm biased tho b/c as a raps fan I've only watched the Bulls in top form.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:50
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He's definitely top 15, arguably at the bottom end of the top 10. You could make a case for closer to top 5 using advanced stats.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:50
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Dejan Bimble posted:Now that the subject is broached, how good is Jimmy Butler? Probably the 3 and Crowder? I'm not sure what the Celtics cap situation is so I don't know if they would have to match salaries. Doesn't seem like Minny had to. We've seen Jimmy lead injured Bulls teams to the Conference Semi Finals Strawberry Panda fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 00:51
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Dejan Bimble posted:Jimmy Butler 1) Yes, I think by any measure. 2) Yeah, no doubt. 3) I don't know. I think he and Giannis are about tied.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:54
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Butler 100% could be the second best piece of a championship team. If Lebron had jimmy he would've won the first cav vs warriors 100%
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Jun 25, 2017 00:54
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Butler and PG going at it are the best parts of Bulls-Pacers games. Well, were the the best parts. In my mind, PG is better defensively and better shooting off screens. But Butler is no slouch defensively and a bit better creating his own shot. I feel like PG would fit better coming to the Celtics, but if I'm Ainge I probably trade for either since Butler has another year of contract control. I think Butler is great for Minny, he will make them tougher and he's great at finishing out games.
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Jun 25, 2017 00:55
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Dejan Bimble posted:Now that the subject is broached, how good is Jimmy Butler? Yes yes yes and yes, unless Lebron is a wing in this schema (I think he mostly is on the Cavs but he's so weird). Giannis is getting there too but like Lebron somewhat defies the simple wing label
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Jun 25, 2017 00:56
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Dexo posted:What. you can truly sound the depths of a man's soul based on what he would do about twitter after acquiring millions
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Jun 25, 2017 00:56
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Dexo posted:What. I'm broke as a joke and I still do it
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Jun 25, 2017 00:59
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Cool Buff Man posted:Holy poo poo Phil It is better to be feared than loved - Phil Jackson, The General Manager
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Jun 25, 2017 01:01
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Butler is very good. They might need to move Wiggins for a shooter tho. Interesting fit Too bad thibs plays dieng. Kat at 5 would super help the spacing .
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Jun 25, 2017 01:03
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KAT plays more center than Dieng, iirc. E: they need better interior defense more than shooting, imo
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Jun 25, 2017 01:05
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Well you know what I mean Two big line ups
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Jun 25, 2017 01:05
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euphronius posted:Butler is very good. They might need to move Wiggins for a shooter tho. Interesting fit I wouldn't move Wiggins. They may not be good immediately but they have Butler for at least two more years (and presumably he's more likely to get along with Thibodeau and want to stay) so there is some runway for KAT/Wiggins to get better, and for them to add some role players who can space the floor, although I'm still not sure I trust GM Thibs even after he fleeced Chicago
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Jun 25, 2017 01:09
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Kibner posted:
Well that's true . Time has interesting issues all around Butler should help transition and perimeter d big ly
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Jun 25, 2017 01:15
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Dejan Bimble posted:Now that the subject is broached, how good is Jimmy Butler? #8-#15. Yes. Yes. 2017 #3 or 2018 Brooklyn pick, Crowder or Smart, Memphis first rounder, and a handful of 2nd rounders.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:27
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I think age plus Butler's personal d and leadership/communication will result in a big jump for them next year. I would bet on an average defense overall. Wiggins especially will benefit from having Butler there as an example of a guy with similar skills and body but a way better head for the game. He'll also get #2 wing defenders and lots more space. Hopefully that feeds back and takes some defensive pressure off of Butler, along with all the easy shots Ricky will get him, so he has the energy to try on defense again
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Jun 25, 2017 01:30
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https://twitter.com/juliephayer/status/878719398000730112
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Jun 25, 2017 01:30
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Spacebump posted:Harrison Barnes talking about Dirk. I'm going to miss that man
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Jun 25, 2017 01:32
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Yeah especially since butler should just have a brain meld with thibs. It will be a coach on the floor situation which is underestimated probably
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Jun 25, 2017 01:32
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You basically exchange some shooting of Paul George for better ball handling, and being a really good post-player. One of Jimmy's strength has always been a good passer out of post situations, even before he became an all-star. The Wolves problems aren't the offense. Their defense needs to go from like the 25th worst to at worst 15th next season. And he's dealt with poor spacing before. Even Paul George had starting line-ups where everyone is at least a credible threat from the perimeter.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:33
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Redgrendel2001 posted:#8-#15. For the 7 guys you consider definitely better I'm guessing Lebron Durant Curry Kawhi Davis Westbrook Harden?
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Jun 25, 2017 01:33
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You gotta put Chris Paul in there .
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Jun 25, 2017 01:35
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I wonder if you can get fart flavored cupcakes
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Jun 25, 2017 01:35
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euphronius posted:Yeah especially since butler should just have a brain meld with thibs. It will be a coach on the floor situation which is underestimated probably how is that underestimated when you have freaking LeBron James as an example
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Jun 25, 2017 01:37
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imo Jimmy Butler is absolutely not a top 10 player. Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Curry, Davis, Harden, Westbrook, Giannis, Chris Paul, Demarcus Cousins, Karl Anthony Towns I'd all say are definitively better than him. I'd also put Paul George and John Wall above him. And I could see arguments for players like Draymond Green. Its great for Minnesota given what they gave up, but they really need to be working on adding a bunch of 3pt shooters. I hope they get Lowry
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Jun 25, 2017 01:37
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WS/48 and Winshares paint Butler as more of a top 5 player
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Jun 25, 2017 01:39
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Cool Buff Man posted:WS/48 and Winshares paint Butler as more of a top 5 player Yeah. And while I think Towns is a surefire hall of famer if he's healthy, better than Butler now is a joke. He's god awful on one end of the court still. Giannis can't shoot at all and still makes regular bonehead plays, Cousins is a mediocre defender and pretty inefficient. Wall and George don't even belong in the conversation.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:44
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Cool Buff Man posted:WS/48 and Winshares paint Butler as more of a top 5 player They also paint Rudy Gobert as a top 3 player, so I'm inclined to believe thats not the whole story
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Jun 25, 2017 01:45
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SpiritOfSanDimas posted:They also paint Rudy Gobert as a top 3 player, so I'm inclined to believe thats not the whole story Don't think anyone was saying it was.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:49
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What's the best place to look up WS/48 stats per season. I wanna see Mike Conley
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Jun 25, 2017 01:50
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https://twitter.com/WrestlingSheet/status/878764720605585409
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Jun 25, 2017 01:51
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SpiritOfSanDimas posted:They also paint Rudy Gobert as a top 3 player, so I'm inclined to believe thats not the whole story That's not as far-fetched as you would think, imo
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Jun 25, 2017 01:51
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SpiritOfSanDimas posted:imo Jimmy Butler is absolutely not a top 10 player. KAT, Cousins, and Giannis are not better than Butler right now. Neither are Wall or George. I do think Draymond is better and I don't know why he gets left off these lists.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:52
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SpiritOfSanDimas posted:They also paint Rudy Gobert as a top 3 player, so I'm inclined to believe thats not the whole story You are aware teams have to play defense right? Gobert is playing probably the best defender in the league and only two or three other guys even come close The last 3 years, Jimmy Butler is 8th in total win shares on a mediocre team. Paul George is 62nd, and if you spot him his average for the year he missed, he leaps all the way to the low 20s. Wall is 31st and Cousins 40th. We aren't talking about razor thin margins here.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:54
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Jimmy Butler is really really good.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:55
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SpiritOfSanDimas posted:They also paint Rudy Gobert as a top 3 player, so I'm inclined to believe thats not the whole story Defense matters too.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:56
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NickRoweFillea posted:What's the best place to look up WS/48 stats per season. I wanna see Mike Conley http://www.basketball-reference.com...er_by=ws_per_48 That's one place to start. You can play around with the settings however you like.
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Jun 25, 2017 01:56
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Big Baller BRAAAAAAAAAUN
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Jun 25, 2017 01:58
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KAT averaged 25 and 12 on a team with zero spacing. Also I think being a big that can shoot provides a lot of inherent value, while being a wing that can't shoot the 3 particularly well (Jimmy Butler) can be a liability. Also in terms of future trajectory, given the rate at which KAT is improving I would say he's in position to have a better year next season, even if you thought Butler was better in 16-17 Cool Buff Man posted:That's not as far-fetched as you would think, imo I respect belief in advanced stats
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Jun 25, 2017 01:58
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