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Kurtofan posted:who is coutts and co English bank for the super-rich. Funnily enough, not the first bank I'd think about if I was trying to secure a loan for my company, but what do I know, I'm not a business mastermind like Crobberts  .Totally missed that CIG also has the exact same charges on it, Jesus wept, how bad a shape are they in?!?
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Jun 25, 2017 12:20
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 edit: lol quote:This has been a disaster of a thread just like the last one, so until there is more concrete reporting on the financials everyone take a break and cool off. The cliques dedicated to vigorously attacking and defending this game's honor are getting practically unmanageable. If you can't argue in good faith, don't post - that goes for skeptics AND fans.
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Jun 25, 2017 12:26
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how does one burn 150 million dollars
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Jun 25, 2017 12:27
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Step one, be Crobblers
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Jun 25, 2017 12:29
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:There's no way I could have guessed the year, but I did expect Chris to do whatever it took to maintain the illusion that he wasn't the biggest failure in the history of game development. Before he lies to anyone else he lies to himself. He lies about how he's competent, he lies about how he's successful, he lies about how his magnum opus is going to revolutionize gaming, he lies about everything. His only talent is self-delusion, of being so convinced by his own bullshit that he comes off as genuine to anyone he needs something from. Those who have already served their purpose are immediately disregarded for the next source of income. Original backers got screwed so that new backers could have previously limited features, older ships were abandoned for new concept sales, and now every backer left is screwed so CIG can enjoy a little more time on life support. "Alright Citizen?" Seems I've got to have a change in scene Every night I have the strangest dreams Imprisoned by the way it should have been Got a nice loan or so it seemed I've got to leave before the interns make me scream Someone's locked the door, she's took the key Alright Citizen? I'm not feelin to good myself Feelin alright I'm not feeling to good myself Well, boys I sure took you for a big ride And even now I sit and wonder why And when I think of you I start to cry I just got another loan, I must keep dry I gotta stop believin' in all the lies Cause there's still reality to code before I die Alright Citizen? I'm not feelin to good myself You Ok Citizen? I'm not feeling to good myself, Citizen (Alright Citizen?) Don't believe in all I say (I'm not feelin' to good myself) Cause soon you'll be able to play (Alright Citizen?) But at this time I'm not sure I can pay (I'm not feelin' to good myself) I can't get off yet, just another 60 days (Alright Citizen?) Till someone comes along and takes my place (Alright Citizen?) With a different name and yes a different place Alright Citizen? I'm not feelin to good myself Dee dee dee dee dee dee dee Feelin alright, alright, alright, alright, I'm not feeling to good myself Good God, good God almighty I feel grief Feelin alright, alright, alright, alright, I'm not feeling to good myself Alright Citizen? I'm not feelin to good myself To the tune of Feelin' Alright (1970)
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Jun 25, 2017 12:43
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On 'the spectrum' there was only a single thread that brought up CIG's loan + collateral. It asked why they put up everything as collateral, someone gave some BS 'it's actually good for the company' answer and the mod insta-locked it with 'question answered' as the reason. 
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Jun 25, 2017 12:46
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Amazing Zimmo posted:If CIG defaults on the loan there is a greater chance that the IP will be more poison than perfume, the backers will have a hard time trusting some random publisher who picked up the rights from the liquidation which means that the future revenue stream is already non-existent. So in short, I agree that banks can make mistakes. Oh and PGabz's findings on Coutts & Co's being the bank of choice for money laundering is something to think about as well. Where are these findings?
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Jun 25, 2017 12:53
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Don't worry. This is normal. Everything is fine.
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Jun 25, 2017 12:57
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Welcome to the
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Lunethex posted:Where are these findings?
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Jun 25, 2017 13:02
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My guess is that Chris himself insisted on Coutts and Co. because he knew that was where rich people banked and he was A Successful Game Developer that would obviously bank where rich people banked.
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Jun 25, 2017 13:35
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What the hell is going on these days?
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Jun 25, 2017 13:40
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Mr.Tophat posted:What the hell is going on these days? Dreams.
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Jun 25, 2017 13:45
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Dreams. *watches as dog kicks in his sleep* Aww, must be dreaming about chasing stretchgoals *dog shits itself and wheezes* Oh, and now it's dreaming about Lesnik
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Jun 25, 2017 13:49
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"Cool Idris" - Nobody
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Jun 25, 2017 13:59
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LOL @ the comments. The new talking point for CIGologists is that it's only 0.25% interest rate (lol). That was listed in the definitions as it pertains to "base rate," but if you look further, there is also "margin" and "rate." "Margin" is listed at 2% per annum, "rate" is aggregate of base rate and margin. I'm no expert, but wouldn't that mean that the total interest rate to be paid is 2.25%? That's not a terrible interest rate, but it's not .25%
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Jun 25, 2017 14:05
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So can the bank be like "put whatever you have into a functional game and gently caress off forever" at this point? Can they give CIG the boot and try and get another studio to finish the game so they can recoup their loan? Are Amazon and Intel in any place to do anything about this?
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Jun 25, 2017 14:06
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http://i.imgur.com/HlkHkjI.gifv
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Jun 25, 2017 14:09
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Can't wait until his shift starts Wonder if we'll get the sassy one or the angry one this time
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Jun 25, 2017 14:15
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There is is. All in good fun MoMA my friend.
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Jun 25, 2017 14:25
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Something the backers kept hammering on in the GAF thread was an excluded collateral section listing Star Citizen. I think the implication is that Coutts is only taking security of Squadron 42. But this means Coutts would own the Idris, Vanduul, 64-bit precision, physics grids, etc. Since all of that stuff will be in SQ42 out of necessity. I don't see how this is functionally different than if it includes Star Citizen. Could they really use this semantic shell game to convince a third bank give them a loan? Until they pay back a loan, I doubt they will be getting anymore major financing. This is 'do or die' regardless if Star Citizen is included or not. No one can predict if CIG will be able to pay back a loan, but if we are going by track record then I wouldn't be too hopeful.
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Jun 25, 2017 14:27
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To make this a bit easier on people who are confused: Base Rate is a rate set by the Bank of England for loans to other banks. Interest rates are usually based on this. Margin is a percentage in which the actual interest rate can fluctuate over a year, based on findings by the bank, etc. The actual Interest Rate for CIG is in no way either 0.25% or 2%. It is 2.25% + Interest Rate for this loan. The actual amount is undisclosed but large businesses loans are usually between 5 and 10% + Margin and Base Rate.
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Jun 25, 2017 14:29
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Aren't they rolling SQ42 into the larger MMO? Are they relying on the confusion between the two in an attempt to get one over on the bank? Is Chris Roberts that cocky with his own IP?
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Jun 25, 2017 14:30
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I really can't believe CIG managed to self own so badly. I must be dreaming 
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Jun 25, 2017 14:30
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But you see CIG is owned by Chris Roberts and Coutts would give them 0% just to have their name attached to trillion dollar global IP Star Citizen.
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Jun 25, 2017 14:31
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big nipples big life posted:But you see CIG is owned by Chris Roberts and Coutts would give them 0% just to have their name attached to trillion dollar global IP Star Citizen. He walked into the conference room and dropped a bunch of concept JPEGs on the table. They had no choice but to fork over everything to Chris, who could resist the infinite possibilities across the verse? She was fearless, and crazier than him. She was his queen, and god help anyone who dared to disrespect his queen.
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Jun 25, 2017 14:34
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Michaellaneous posted:To make this a bit easier on people who are confused: Stop spreading FUD!
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Jun 25, 2017 14:41
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:My guess is that Chris himself insisted on Coutts and Co. because he knew that was where rich people banked and he was A Successful Game Developer that would obviously bank where rich people banked. I would honestly not be surprised at all if this was the reason. What evidence is there given by the backers that this is set against buying up new property? I only took a cursory glance at the charge document (mainly at the charges/licenses) and didn't notice anything referring to purchasing a new property, unless they're misreading "any property owned now and in the future" as "they're buying new property, guys!".
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Jun 25, 2017 14:51
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Tokamak posted:Something the backers kept hammering on in the GAF thread was an excluded collateral section listing Star Citizen. I think the implication is that Coutts is only taking security of Squadron 42. But this means Coutts would own the Idris, Vanduul, 64-bit precision, physics grids, etc. Since all of that stuff will be in SQ42 out of necessity. The exclusion is only part of the definition of the word Collateral and only the word Collateral. You have to find some contextual use of the word in the document, otherwise the definition is meaningless. You could include an entire dictionary of definitions but if you don't actually use the word you have made a definition for, then what is the point? As said before, you'd be looking for something like: 42. The Chargor pinky swears not to try any sneaky take backsies with regard to any of the collateral mentioned in sections 4 and 5.
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Jun 25, 2017 14:55
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shrach posted:The exclusion is only part of the definition of the word Collateral and only the word Collateral. You have to find some contextual use of the word in the document, otherwise the definition is meaningless. You could include an entire dictionary of definitions but if you don't actually use the word you have made a definition for, then what is the point? Would anyone be surprised if CIG's crack legal team missed that and inadvertently put up the whole company by accident?
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Jun 25, 2017 14:58
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Would anyone be surprised if CIG's crack legal team missed that and inadvertently put up the whole company by accident? MoMA explain yourself 
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Jun 25, 2017 15:00
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Maybe Coutts & Co are just trying to expand into the thriving JPEG insurance industry?
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Jun 25, 2017 15:01
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no_recall posted:I really can't believe CIG managed to self own so badly. The good news is soon they won't own anything, especially themselves.
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Jun 25, 2017 15:02
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Jun 25, 2017 15:03
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Would anyone be surprised if CIG's crack legal team missed that and inadvertently put up the whole company by accident? I mean you could maybe argue it's worse. So I think this is the relevant section for the context:  The way I read this is that once CIG pays off the loan, all the collateral is returned to them. But since collateral excludes the IP, it's saying that the IP is not returned to CIG even when they pay off the loan. I dunno.
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Jun 25, 2017 15:13
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the gray market is dumping their prices by another 25 to 40% anyone with half a brain will demand a refund and get the gently caress out before it's too late
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Jun 25, 2017 15:19
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On a scale of 1 to 10. How ironclad is this loan agreement? Asking for my friend Chris.
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Jun 25, 2017 15:20
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The Ironclad Tos vs The Queens Bank tonight in the Octogon
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Jun 25, 2017 15:21
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even when chris roberts walks off into the sunset with their money, they still won't admit they were wrong they deserve chris roberts thank you backers for the years of comedy
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Jun 25, 2017 15:33
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 this owns
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Jun 25, 2017 15:36
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If the rabid defence that's been going on doesn't prove that the "vocal" fans are either staff/paid shills or amongst the stupidest people on the planet, I don't think anything will. It's a bailout. The tank is empty. When I took out my starter loan back a few years ago to get my business going, there was nothing like these terms. A loan like this is a signal that insolvency is a present and looming threat.
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Jun 25, 2017 15:36
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