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What is going to be your favorite offseason storyline? This poll is closed. |
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| The Big3 Tourney |
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67 | 22.41% |
| Will Lakers draft Ball |
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40 | 13.38% |
| Where will the Pauls go |
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54 | 18.06% |
| Will LeBron jump ship to the Spurs or ?? |
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41 | 13.71% |
| Will every team in the league just pivot towards tanking |
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97 | 32.44% |
| Total: | 210 votes | ||
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:really good at basketball. Wolves fans keep saying this and it's really not reflected in the stats. How is a PG who shoots .300 from three "really good" in the modern NBA? Tell me where that happens on a winning team. Marcus Smart is the only guy I can think of, and I don't see him defended with Rubio-fan vehemence.
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Jun 25, 2017 16:15
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Ricky is young, cheap, and really good at basketball. Have you all noticed that all Rubio trade rumors involve other teams fleecing the Wolves? It's because the rumors originate from non-Wolves sources, and the Wolves actually don't want to trade Rubio. Thibs understands how loving valuable and sexy Ricky is and he isn't trading him unless he gets a ridiculous offer. I think Thibs would like to swap Rubio out but he isn't going to dump him, that's pretty clear. Rubio's production vs contract is pretty positive and he isn't going to get salary dumped or even given away. You aren't going to sign a better PG off the street for 14 mil a year. A lot of people think quality of a team is proportional to their 3p shooting exclusively so I understand why people who don't watch the Wolves at all would get bad opinions on Rubio.
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Jun 25, 2017 16:17
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EvanTH posted:Wolves fans keep saying this and it's really not reflected in the stats. How is a PG who shoots .300 from three "really good" in the modern NBA? Tell me where that happens on a winning team. Marcus Smart is the only guy I can think of, and I don't see him defended with Rubio-fan vehemence. Oh, what a good example. Russel Westbrook Tony Parker through most of his career John Wall Chris Paul hit basically the same number of 3s in '13 and '14 and no one was saying CP3 was done then The Spurs were a below-average 3pt team last year and did just fine Giannis is ok Rondo was an all-star PG with the worse shooting
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Jun 25, 2017 16:23
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EvanTH posted:Kenyon Martin on The Breakfast Club:
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Jun 25, 2017 16:25
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All of those people can finish at the rim, something Rubio cannot do
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Jun 25, 2017 16:26
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EvanTH posted:Wolves fans keep saying this and it's really not reflected in the stats. How is a PG who shoots .300 from three "really good" in the modern NBA? Tell me where that happens on a winning team. Marcus Smart is the only guy I can think of, and I don't see him defended with Rubio-fan vehemence. The best way to describe rubio is that he is the ultimate wingman. He goes to the club and is unable to score for himself but his friends that came along with him all score with ease cause Ricky is able to set up his man perfectly where he's able to get the easy finish
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Jun 25, 2017 16:28
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The Wolves were 108.1 in offensive efficiency this year. Do you know who was 108 last year? The Cavs and Spurs. Offense is not the problem
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Jun 25, 2017 16:29
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AggressivelyStupid posted:All of those people can finish at the rim, something Rubio cannot do That wasn't the goalpost. Rubio is also much better at setting up his teammates than those guys (except CP3). But if you want a good example that Rubio is able to run a good NBA offense? Tae posted:The Wolves were 108.1 in offensive efficiency this year. Do you know who was 108 last year? He ran a good NBA offense.
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Jun 25, 2017 16:37
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AggressivelyStupid posted:All of those people can finish at the rim, something Rubio cannot do and equating that one year of cp3 shooting 32%(which is still higher than rubios career 3p%) from three when hes a career 37% shooter from 3 is hilarious. yeah people didn't kneejerk react to one bad year shooting? what does that have to do with 6 years of bad shooting Metapod posted:The best way to describe rubio is that he is the ultimate wingman. He goes to the club and is unable to score for himself but his friends that came along with him all score with ease cause Ricky is able to set up his man perfectly where he's able to get the easy finish his assist% this last year was just above jeff teagues. over the span of his career hes just ahead of lebron which is good but hes all alone in the top 10 as a dude who cannot finish even a little bit. would you take good deron williams, delete all of his other skills besides passing and call him a good player? I do agree with this: Lockback posted:I think Thibs would like to swap Rubio out but he isn't going to dump him, that's pretty clear. Rubio's production vs contract is pretty positive and he isn't going to get salary dumped or even given away. You aren't going to sign a better PG off the street for 14 mil a year. that this thread tends to overrate 3p% like thats the only thing that defines spacing when it absolutely is not. its within the realm of possibility to create a lot of space without being a good 3pt shooter, thats just the easiest and most common way. rubio having no ability to finish makes this seem almost impossible but it could theoretically be true.
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Jun 25, 2017 16:46
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Hah, strap on the fingerless trolling gloves, it's time to tell T-Wolves fans Rubio isn't an international iconLockback posted:Oh, what a good example. Every single one of those are flawed comparisons! Giannis is the only guy on the list with a lower 3p% and most those guys has an EFG at least .050 higher than Rubio's(including Giannis, excepting only Wall who only has an .035ish advantage on Rubio). I don't know about anyone else, but I find it sorta remarkable when watching the games how you can almost feel the difference between a .350 3p shooter and a .365 shooter. Russell Westbrook shot .343 this year on 10.2 3PA attempts per game. He's clearly a much better shooter than Rubio's .306 3p% this year and career .315. That's a silly comparison. And it's not like Westbrook is only taking high-quality shots like Rubio is encouraged to do by defenses, hah. Tony Parker was absolutely deadly midrange. Rubio is not. And again closer to a league average 3p shooter than Rubio. And Parker's he's sorta sucked the last few years, I kinda think he shoulda been done after 2014 CP3 is a career .370 3p%, one of the greatest PGs of all time why would you include him The Spurs shot .391% from three last season, that was number one in the league--[metal gear solid sound] ??? Giannis would be the MVP if he could shoot threes. Rubio doesn't lead his league in every major statistical category, get from halfcourt to the rim in two steps, guard 1-5, Giannis' EFG was .541 this year, compared with Rubio's .448 (league average .515) Wall might be the best comparison you could use if you want to go more in depth on that, but Wall gets to the rim and puts the ball in. You could probably go in more on that comparison if you want to make Rubio's case? at some point an inability to put the ball in the hoop makes you not a great point guard. Rubio isn't a kinda-bad shooter slightly below league average, he's a real bad shooter.
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Jun 25, 2017 16:54
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Ah, you added in Rondo. That kinda works for me. Is he considered a good contract again or is he still the league's hateful joke? It keeps swapping back and forth
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Jun 25, 2017 17:00
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Lockback posted:That wasn't the goalpost. Rubio is also much better at setting up his teammates than those guys (except CP3). But if you want a good example that Rubio is able to run a good NBA offense? http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=XmTQ4 and tony parker is in the neighborhood. i think theres a disconnect between how nice rubios passing looks and how many baskets he actually makes for his team. "worse" passers can make as many baskets for their teammates by virtue of actually needing to be guarded unlike rubio who barely even needs someone to rotate on him when hes right infront of the basket undefended.
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Jun 25, 2017 17:01
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Comparing Finals mvp and bagger of Brent Barry's wife, the hero of France, the best rapper Fab ever collaborated with, to compare him to Ricky Rubio...I like Ricky how could u not, but still... Rude!
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Jun 25, 2017 17:04
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Tae posted:AD has become better at defense once he basically became a Center. He still wasn't good at PnR even when he started playing more C than PF like three years ago.
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Jun 25, 2017 17:06
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Comparing Finals mvp and bagger of Brent Barry's wife, the hero of France, the best rapper Fab ever collaborated with, to compare him to Ricky Rubio...I like Ricky how could u not, but still... Champ, champ! Tell me about your Fiery Francophile! The Parisian Torpedo, Tony Parker! Can he continue to be your main butter-and-egg-man and still cook the boys in Big D?? Haha TP's BBR page lists his nicknames as the two jokes from that silly Popovich Q&A where the dude had the right idea but still kinda blew the delivery http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html edit: corrected quote EvanTH fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 17:08
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Toilet Parker
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Jun 25, 2017 17:12
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Femur posted:0 all stars, Conley, is already the highest paid player in the league no? SAC didn't want to pay Cousins the supermax or whatever and that is why they traded him. Had nothing to do with his PR.
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Jun 25, 2017 17:18
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Chairchucker posted:You guys suck and I hate you. stay strong Chairchucker, Ricky is cool and good and Jim B is a great get.
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Jun 25, 2017 17:21
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EvanTH posted:Wolves fans keep saying this and it's really not reflected in the stats. How is a PG who shoots .300 from three "really good" in the modern NBA? Tell me where that happens on a winning team. Marcus Smart is the only guy I can think of, and I don't see him defended with Rubio-fan vehemence. https://twitter.com/Ballislife/status/878811287375015936 you never stopped believing in him and he's going to reward you
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Jun 25, 2017 17:22
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I think teams will be more aggressive during a playoff series in daring Rubio to shoot / finish, which could hurt the wolves. But he's clearly not hurting their offense too much, given its 10th best, so I'd rate a stretch 4 as a bigger need. On the other hand there aren't a ton of stretch 4s on the market, and there is a glut of point guards who might be better than Rubio...
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Jun 25, 2017 17:26
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Cool Buff Man posted:https://twitter.com/Ballislife/status/878811287375015936 "Hey Marcus, when we told you to work on your range we meant like from the corner 3."
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Jun 25, 2017 17:29
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Helps that Rubio's been playing with three 20ish ppg starters for a while now, and they just upgraded one of them from Zach Lavine to Jimmy Butler. Rubio's effectiveness would be greatly limited on a lesser offensive team but he's in a great situation right now
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Jun 25, 2017 17:31
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For me, Smart gets two more years leeway to learn how to shoot (because I absolutely loved that time he refused to let Donald Sloan walk the dog) but after that he's a FLAWED PLAYER >:[ edit: more, not total EvanTH fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 17:31
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EvanTH posted:
You are all over the place on what you are measuring here. You asked this: quote:How is a PG who shoots .300 from three "really good" in the modern NBA? Tell me where that happens on a winning team Westbrook was a bad 3pt shooter every year and this is his first year above 33%. You said he was a better 3pt shooter than Rubio's career .315, but Westbrook is a career .313 with way more seasons. Westbrook brought a team to the finals and the WCF a couple times with seasons shooting right around .300. Tony Parker, you said nothing about midrange, but Rubio is actually a pretty solid midrange shooter. From 02-'12 Parker shot 3s under .300 and won Final MVPS, All-star nods, etc. CP3 had successful seasons very recently where he was a "bad" 3pt shooter. I'm not sure your point, but if a guy was bad for a few years it doesn't really matter what his past was. You asked when it happened with a winning team and CP3 was on winning teams despite shooting poorly. Spurs were 17th in the league in 3 point shots made. They built an offense that featured the 3 point shot less than most other teams. That's what below-average means in this context. Percentages don't mean as much as actual shots going in the basket. Again, with Giannis you asked for a team that had a guy who couldn't hit 3s leading a team. I don't think Rubio is as good as Giannis, but you're doing this weird thing trying to argue against the point you made. Same with Wall. The only thing you asked about was 3 point shooting. And Rondo is bad now, but he was a great player for several years on successful teams despite not hitting 3s or even scoring all that much. He has notably been a worse player the last couple years when he's actually hit his 3s more reliably.
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Jun 25, 2017 17:33
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Alright well pretend I said Ricky "can't shoot at all, simply cannot put the ball in the hoop" instead of "can't shoot the three" and then used his abysmal 3p shooting as the prime indicator of such a thing in the current NBA environment. Does that make sense? also forgot to add I'm not sure I'd consider Tony Parker 10 years ago "modern NBA"
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Jun 25, 2017 17:35
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EvanTH posted:For me, Smart gets two more years leeway to learn how to shoot (because I absolutely loved that time he refused to let Donald Sloan walk the dog) but after that he's a FLAWED PLAYER >:[ Fair enough. On the bright and more useless side, he's got like the third best points per possession for guard post-ups
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Jun 25, 2017 17:38
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Mr. Mambold posted:stay strong Chairchucker, Ricky is cool and good and Jim B is a great get. Thanks Mr Mambold, I am for real super excited about Jimmy Buckets being on my team even though his arrival means my favourite player is probably like 4th best on the team now. EDIT: someone now is probably gonna try to tell me someone else on the wolves is also better than Rubio and I am gonna call that person a butt
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Jun 25, 2017 17:53
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Cool Buff Man posted:Toilet Parker http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18273391/lamenting-another-super-spur-boston-never-got
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Jun 25, 2017 17:58
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Hey man that multi ring commode was almost yours Joe Forte was a strong choice
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Jun 25, 2017 17:59
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EvanTH posted:Alright well pretend I said Ricky "can't shoot at all, simply cannot put the ball in the hoop" instead of "can't shoot the three" and then used his abysmal 3p shooting as the prime indicator of such a thing in the current NBA environment. Does that make sense? Well, that's a totally different argument. Here's a HUGE list of guys who scored about as much as Rubio (15-19 points per 100 possessions, Rubio scored 17.2 last season), about as efficiently (TS .500-.550, Rubio scored at a .539 rate), in the last 10 seasons. Lots of good players in that list. Rondo's Championship year, Butler's 3rd year, Iggy's All-Star year in Philly, PatBev is on there a couple times, Livingston is on there. And Ricky's latest effort is near the top in total WS. http://www.basketball-reference.com...1.0&order_by=ws So there is a fatal flaw in your argument here, Ricky is very good at getting to the Free Throw line and can convert them when he's there. He also has a pretty solid mid-range game. Between the two of those, he can score enough to compare to other players. He is not elite or whatever, but's he's not paid as an elite player either. You're also going to have 3 guys on the team who really should have usages north of 25% next year, and if you slide another high usage scoring PG in there you'll start seeing diminishing returns (Bosh/Love effect, which I think you'll already start seeing). Rubio's shooting will hurt a little, and his finishing at the rim will also hurt, but an affordable contract on a guy who will make it easy to get the ball to all these weapons where it's easy to score + his defense will easily outweigh what he takes off the table. They would be better off with a better PG, but they probably can't afford one. If they can swing a trade, great, but salary dumping Rubio would be a dumb move and the team can be really good with Rubio. The offense will likely only improve from being a top-10 and few PGs will improve the defense like Rubio does (and that effect is muted, since PG defense is the least impactful). Chairchucker posted:EDIT: someone now is probably gonna try to tell me someone else on the wolves is also better than Rubio and I am gonna call that person a butt I can hear an argument for Dieng, but they play as opposite as you can. I also think Dieng is underrated.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:01
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Yeah I like Dieng he's cool.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:03
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Cool Buff Man posted:Toilet Parker Got em
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Jun 25, 2017 18:11
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Why in the hell wont FS1 just broadcast Big3 on the day of? Screw this one day later crap
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Jun 25, 2017 18:15
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Kibner posted:SAC didn't want to pay Cousins the supermax or whatever and that is why they traded him. Had nothing to do with his PR. How can you claim that his image didn't color their perception of his future value? Didn't Vivek love him originally until every "issue" he got in was used to convince vivek to go in a different direction? Hes visible, fills stat sheets, recognized all NBA player; he's on the same level as PG and Haywood, whom everybody laments didn't get supermax eligibility this year. Blake and Paul(old) are also similar levels expected to receive max offers.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:15
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quote:In the aftermath of the draft, Auerbach proclaimed that Forte was an, "ideal 2-guard; he can flat-out shoot the ball." Alas, Forte could not flat-out shoot the ball. He made only one field goal in 12 career attempts with Boston. He played a mere 39 minutes in eight games. Thirteen months after drafting Forte, the Celtics traded him to Seattle as part of the package that returned Vin Baker (and somehow that might have been an even worse personnel decision). 
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Jun 25, 2017 18:16
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https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/879026651870371840 https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/879026824537186304
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Jun 25, 2017 18:21
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Rasta_Al posted:Why in the hell wont FS1 just broadcast Big3 on the day of? Screw this one day later crap Big 3 needs Stern to become the commish and end tape delayed games. Vertical Lime posted:https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/879026651870371840 Boo. Let Dirk get paid.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:27
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big 3 thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3824862
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Jun 25, 2017 18:38
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Ghost Dog posted:actually no, all of : westbrook, cp3, wall and rondo are better setup men than rubio I don't think ast% is a great stat in general but this is a particularly weak use of it. Those teams have different offenses (wolves run too much ISO for Wiggins and KAT particularly), it doesn't correct for shooting %/potential assists, etc. Rubio's team obviously lacks shooters. Cool Buff Man posted:Fair enough. On the bright and more useless side, he's got like the third best points per possession for guard post-ups Guard post ups have a really key tactical role, especially in the playoffs. If you can force a small, weak pg into post up defense then you can run up fouls, force help (onto what will usually be your best passer, a great situation), and get some easy buckets. It can force a critical matchup change or run a guy off the court. It was a key part of how the 2000s Pistons played. Chauncey would post up a little guard and abuse him, and they'd either have to pull him or put him on Rip, who would then just run him through screens for an hour and shoot over him. It really hosed smaller point guards up.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:55
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DeimosRising posted:Guard post ups have a really key tactical role, especially in the playoffs. If you can force a small, weak pg into post up defense then you can run up fouls, force help (onto what will usually be your best passer, a great situation), and get some easy buckets. It can force a critical matchup change or run a guy off the court. It was a key part of how the 2000s Pistons played. Chauncey would post up a little guard and abuse him, and they'd either have to pull him or put him on Rip, who would then just run him through screens for an hour and shoot over him. It really hosed smaller point guards up. Thank you for making me appreciate Marcus Smart more.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:03
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