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pacerhimself posted:Fox News has been pushing the necessity of going to war against North Korea at least since Friday. All of their programs are selling the threat of a nuke or emp, it's just loving sickening. And yet, when I flip the channel to CNN, they're essentially pushing for war with Russia. God bless cable news. What would we do without it?
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Jun 25, 2017 07:50
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STAC Goat posted:I'm right in believing that the whole right wing "EMP" fear mongering is absurd, right? Like from what I've read over the years in order to have a EMP burst large enough to do serious damage you'd basically need to detonate a nuke... and if you're detonating a nuke why the gently caress are you worried about the EMP burst? Its some nonsense they got out of a Grisham novel, right? The EMP effect of knocking out the power was discovered by detonating a nuke high above the Pacific. So it isn't complete nonsense. It gets played up because no one would believe that NK has enough nukes to blow up every major city in the US. But a few nukes could be detonated above the US and knock out the power grid. It is how you get the entire US afraid of NK.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:45
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The same test, Starfish Prime from Operation Fishbowl also knocked out a number of low orbiting satellites!"The Wikipedia article on Operation Fishbowl posted:
The EMP effect from a high altitude nuclear explosions is serious poo poo. That said, all the fearmongering and saber rattling is just as dumb as it always is.
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Jun 25, 2017 09:06
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RedSpider posted:And yet, when I flip the channel to CNN, they're essentially pushing for war with Russia. To be fair Russia is actively loving with us and has the potential to cause lasting damage whilst North Korea can do jack poo poo.
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Jun 25, 2017 09:17
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Eh. The EMP lobby primarily exists to justify expensive missile defense projects which began under Reagan. It's a program in search of a rationale. Not to say EMP isn't a real thing when you detonate a nuclear bomb. An EMP is a weapon of mass disruption, not a weapon of mass destruction. But at the end of the day, you're still flinging a nuke at the United States. The go-to source for everything you need to know is here btw: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1549/1 http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1553/1
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Jun 25, 2017 09:27
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STAC Goat posted:I'm right in believing that the whole right wing "EMP" fear mongering is absurd, right? Like from what I've read over the years in order to have a EMP burst large enough to do serious damage you'd basically need to detonate a nuke... and if you're detonating a nuke why the gently caress are you worried about the EMP burst? Its some nonsense they got out of a Grisham novel, right? An EMP is probably the only kind of meaningful attack you could get from North Korea when they only have one or two nukes to use, especially since they probably have problems with accuracy at extreme long range that would mean tossing a nuke at a city would just hit some rural area in California rather SF or LA. All you need to do for an EMP that'll at least gently caress with a bunch of people though, is get your nuke high in the atmosphere and it'll mess with things for a few hundred miles around. To be clear though, it would be extremely unlikely for them to even manage that.
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Jun 25, 2017 14:50
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Wouldn't them launching a nuke only for the EMP result still have the same MAD effect?
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Jun 25, 2017 18:55
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UmOk posted:Wouldn't them launching a nuke only for the EMP result still have the same MAD effect? Yeah, the moment NK launches a nuke, they're pretty much gonna be turbofucked in terms of retaliation. Provided Trump remembers the codes.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:59
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seiferguy posted:Yeah, the moment NK launches a nuke, they're pretty much gonna be turbofucked in terms of retaliation. Provided Trump remembers the codes. So why do these people see them differently than any other nuclear power?
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Jun 25, 2017 19:08
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STAC Goat posted:Its some nonsense they got out of a Grisham novel, right? It was the plot of the Red Dawn remake. I wish they were just as afraid of Kaiju so they'd be flushing our dollars into sweet Pacific Rim robots, but here we are.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:09
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UmOk posted:So why do these people see them differently than any other nuclear power? its a way of ginning up one nuke into an existential threat
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Jun 25, 2017 19:12
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:its a way of ginning up one nuke into an existential threat And the story goes that it will destroy everything with a microchip. So living outside the big city won't save you.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:24
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UmOk posted:So why do these people see them differently than any other nuclear power? MAD like economics assumes rational actors.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:48
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Hunt11 posted:To be fair Russia is actively loving with us and has the potential to cause lasting damage whilst North Korea can do jack poo poo. To be fair a war with Russia would end life as we know it on this planet.
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Jun 25, 2017 20:37
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RedSpider posted:To be fair a war with Russia would end life as we know it on this planet. Yes, so they are a threat we have to actually deal with properly as there are serious stakes involved. The same can not be said for North Korea.
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Jun 25, 2017 21:32
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fishmech posted:To be clear though, it would be extremely unlikely for them to even manage that.   loving  at every form of media that ever attempted to pass NK off as a threat ever. Hacks and ur-fascists, every one of them.
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Jun 25, 2017 21:33
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Hunt11 posted:Yes, so they are a threat we have to actually deal with properly as there are serious stakes involved. The same can not be said for North Korea. Yes, and we could start by not deploying troops onto the borders of a nuclear power. You're learning! 
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Jun 25, 2017 21:46
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North Korea isn't a physical threat to the US, true, but they can absolutely gently caress up South Korea, including a good chunk of Seoul, if they decide it's worth the retaliation.
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Jun 25, 2017 22:00
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Pope Guilty posted:North Korea isn't a physical threat to the US, true, but they can absolutely gently caress up South Korea, including a good chunk of Seoul, if they decide it's worth the retaliation. It would be more like a suicide bombing. No matter what your reasons are for doing it, you'll do a lot of damage to something and die from it.
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Jun 25, 2017 22:02
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Historically, the main reason NK does poo poo like this is to make the US and China send them more food shipments so they'll shut up for a bit. They know that the US, South Korea, and China all regard them as a nuisance but really don't want to invade them for various reasons, so they occasionally make a fuss until someone gives them enough stuff to make them go away for a little while.
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Jun 25, 2017 22:49
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Pope Guilty posted:North Korea isn't a physical threat to the US, true, but they can absolutely gently caress up South Korea, including a good chunk of Seoul, if they decide it's worth the retaliation. The theory I've seen peddled is their plan is to use a nuclear ICBM to blackmail the US into withdrawing and staying out of Korean affairs. Then they turn right around and start negotiating with the SK left-wing and rich elites to start Reunfication under their terms, banking that the left-wing just want the division to be over no matter what and that the Seoul elites would be willing to sell out the rest of their countrymen to keep their cushy lifestyles. At which point the Kims Win The Korean War. Still pretty out-there conspiracy theory, but still more plausible than "DUMB AND SO CRAZY BEST KOREA THROW NUKE AT SAN FRANCISCO!"
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Jun 25, 2017 22:56
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https://twitter.com/GroverNorquist/status/879088544702181378
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Jun 25, 2017 23:08
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A flat/poll tax is in fact a regressive tax and is bad. A good tweet.
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Jun 25, 2017 23:12
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Yes, lying by omission to your child about fundamental aspects of the real world then letting them get embarrassed and mad at society for their subsequent mistake without intervention on your part as a parent so they begin to develop a regressive mindset certainly seems like an effective way to raise them to be a Republican, I agree.
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Jun 25, 2017 23:12
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And then she had no money left over for replacement strings.
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Jun 25, 2017 23:16
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Phone posted:And then she had no money left over for replacement strings. If she deserved to play guitar she would've been able to afford guitar strings insurance before she ever bought a guitar.
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Jun 25, 2017 23:32
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Wait, sales tax in MA is 6.25%. He made a moralizing tweet over $2.18, as opposed to just helping his kid out? Even that aside, maybe he should be arguing taxes should be included in the sticker price, like the way I hear they do it in sane countries?
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Jun 25, 2017 23:32
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Loel posted:Wait, sales tax in MA is 6.25%. He made a moralizing tweet over $2.18, as opposed to just helping his kid out? Please this as I hate having to mentally add in taxes when looking at prices for stuff at a store.
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Jun 25, 2017 23:35
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Loel posted:Wait, sales tax in MA is 6.25%. He made a moralizing tweet over $2.18, as opposed to just helping his kid out? Don't Republicans generally LIKE sales tax? I mean, isn't one of Grover's dreams to eliminate the income tax and make up for it by jacking up sales tax?
Mr Interweb fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 23:38
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I think you'll find that taxation is theft, friend.
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Jun 25, 2017 23:41
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Faustian Bargain posted:I think you'll find that taxation is theft, friend. Doesn't that only apply to rich people? Mr Interweb fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 23:47
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please do not steal my original idea republicans (esp grover norquist): value added fees or VAF for short
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Jun 26, 2017 00:33
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UmOk posted:Wouldn't them launching a nuke only for the EMP result still have the same MAD effect? Well yeah, the only way to cause a sizable EMP is to launch a loving nuke at the other guy. Which pulls the exact same response as shooting the same nuke with plans to detonate it lower in the atmosphere. I.e. the response nukes are probably already in the air before the EMP even gets within a hundred miles of going off.
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Jun 26, 2017 01:33
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Off topic, but what do you say to someone who argues that the primary factor that caused the 2008 Financial Crisis was the Fed lowering interest rates?
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Jun 26, 2017 01:47
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Mr Interweb posted:Off topic, but what do you say to someone who argues that the primary factor that caused the 2008 Financial Crisis was the Fed lowering interest rates? 'You're a loving idiot' ?
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Jun 26, 2017 01:53
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Mr Interweb posted:Off topic, but what do you say to someone who argues that the primary factor that caused the 2008 Financial Crisis was the Fed lowering interest rates? In 2001? Cause the Fed had been raising interest rates for a few years prior to 08, from a low reached around 2001/2002 https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/interest-rate
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Jun 26, 2017 02:10
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Mr Interweb posted:Off topic, but what do you say to someone who argues that the primary factor that caused the 2008 Financial Crisis was the Fed lowering interest rates? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amKyA2PrSu4&t=8s
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Jun 26, 2017 04:10
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RedSpider posted:God bless cable news. What would we do without it? Elect better Presidents.
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Jun 26, 2017 04:28
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UmOk posted:So why do these people see them differently than any other nuclear power? Because North Korea isn't a nuclear power, and therefore still a possible target for a military invasion that will transfer trillions of America's to the war industry, and for the useful idiots that enable this new war, the endless stream of flag-draped coffins are an opportunity to playact at being a big strong man without having to put themselves in any physical danger while they project all their inner cowardice and shame on the anti-war movement that they will condemn and then blame after-the-fact for the quagmire when it all goes tits up again.
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Jun 26, 2017 05:59
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http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/25/watch-chuck-todd-ask-bernie-sanders-zero-questions-about-being-under-fbi-investigation-video/ Morning radio going full bore with this. Indisputable proof of media bias!  Is something big about to break, that they are so desperate they have to try to gin this into a thing? I mean, other than the GOP rushing through super unpopular and deadly legislation via antidemocratic means?
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