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Sappo569 posted:I'm still trying to wrap my head around ortwins logic here Could be a couple reasons actually. It could be that CIG just needs that extra money now to tie into a scheduled cost - for example, if CIG were going on a big marketing push in two weeks, having that money in twelve months or whatever doesn't really help, but It's CIG, so let's be real - they have nothing to release, so what's there to market right now? The other big reason why IT'S THEIR MONEY AND THEY WANT IT NOW makes sense is if they are in fact broke. Hypothetically if they've been dumping all their liquid assets into trying to get SQ42 ready for the last year, they may be in a position where they either don't have enough money to sustain the push, or at least they can't access that money right now. If that's the case, taking the loan is basically the only option to keep them solvent, hopefully for long enough that something pans out and they get a surge of fresh cash from backers. "So then why not do it in the US?" I hear everyone asking. Well that's simple - the US cares fuckall about giving you tax breaks for making an American video game. The UK is willing to cut you something like up to 80% of what you spent in the year. So the UK is just about their only option, and there's a bonus in that if they've been spending like hell at F42 to kick the SQlude out the door, their rebate will be even bigger. The bank doesn't give a poo poo what happens to CIG, which is why the collateral is as insane as it is. It's likely they looked at their finances and went "Hoo boy, you're a what now?" and wrote up the terms of the loan such that there's no way they could possibly lose. Now, that could be because #Ortwinning failed to adequately explain crowdfunding to a bunch of old Londoners, or it could be because CIG is in dire straits financially. We just don't know. But the one thing that is worth noticing - coincidentally the one thing redditors are trying like hell to handwave away - is the fact that CIG is borrowing against guaranteed income and the bank still felt it necessary to require half their company as collateral. That isn't normal, and it's almost guaranteed to be happening for one of two reasons: 1) it's the only way the bank would give them the loan, or 2) it's the only way the bank would give them the loan at an interest rate they could keep up with. Neither of those options are good. It's likely that CIG just doesn't have enough cash to cover the collateral, but to be fair they shouldn't be sitting on a big pile of money anyway. If CIG were just sitting on a shitload of liquid assets it wouldn't be a smart move either. You obviously want a balance - enough liquidity to keep the lights on and cover any unexpected fuckups, but enough of your assets tied up making you more money that you're not losing out on potential profit every year. Still, you'd think they'd at least have enough change under the couch cushions to be able to secure a loan against guaranteed income. Apparently, for whatever reason, they don't. The catch is we have no idea what the disposition of CIG's assets are: Are they cash-poor because they overinvested? Are they poor-poor because they spent all their money and didn't invest anything?  e: as far as the 'Ortwin's logic' part, I'd bet he probably just came up with the most reassuring explanation he could when they wheeled him down to the Executive Bunker, knowing that nobody who mattered would dig into it.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:42
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Jun 26, 2017 17:47
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Here's all you need to know about Ortwin: https://www.popehat.com/2015/10/04/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-threaten-lawsuits/
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Jun 26, 2017 17:50
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https://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/star-citizen-loan-coutts-and-co
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Jun 26, 2017 17:50
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I'm the guy that thinks the obvious explanation as to why news organizations would want to cover the biggest crowdfunding disaster in history needing to take out bank loans while being 3 years past release is that it's obviously a paid conspiracy where trolls front the money to try and make Star Citizen look bad.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:52
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Space Crabs posted:I'm the guy that thinks the obvious explanation as to why news organizations would want to cover the biggest crowdfunding disaster in history needing to take out bank loans while being 3 years past release is that it's obviously a paid conspiracy where trolls front the money to try and make Star Citizen look bad. Given the rest of this fiasco, I guess it makes sense.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:58
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C-Bangin' it 
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Thread is good. i am glad you are here with me at the end of all things
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Jun 26, 2017 18:04
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Heh they don't know the half of it, what with Operation You need a Platinum Account to read this message just about to go green.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:04
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Welcome to the
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his nibs posted:Heh they don't know the half of it, what with Operation You need a Platinum Account to read this message just about to go green. Already? So I take it that the You need a Platinum Account to read this message Procedure went off without a hitch. I never even noticed. Impressive.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:06
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big nipples big life posted:citizens propping ortwin up as some sort of super lawyer sent down from lawyer mt. olympus or some poo poo is always entertaining to me He owned/operated the porn studio that Sandi worked at. Hell, he probably introduced her to Roberts.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:09
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spacetoaster posted:Has anyone estimated the amount of money Chris, Sandi, Lawyerboy, and Erin have stuffed into their pockets from this? My main man, Erin, has recently developed the look of a man on friendly terms with local pie shops. The question is, just how many pies could Erin eat with money from Squadron 42? Erin recently surpassed the £1m / $1.5m landmarks for pie money extracted from "collections". 
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Jun 26, 2017 18:12
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Guys [platinum] stop talking about this stuff in the thread, we have discord for that /platinum]
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Jun 26, 2017 18:12
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Tippis posted:Already? So I take it that the You need a Platinum Account to read this message Procedure went off without a hitch. I never even noticed. Impressive. It worked perfectly, even down to the You need a Platinum Account to read this message and anticipated Otwin rebuttal.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:12
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spacetoaster posted:He owned/operated the porn studio that Sandi worked at. Hell, he probably introduced her to Roberts. A lawyer should be intimately acquainted with loving people so this seems like a top tier qualification.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:12
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oops
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Jun 26, 2017 18:13
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Jun 26, 2017 18:14
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I notice these guys don't bother complaining about those articles that make Star Citizen sound like a complete game, filled with imaginary features the game doesn't have. Nope, gotta call conspiracy and say it's disinformation when someone finds factual evidence against the game.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:19
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I'm still bewildered that people give this much of a poo poo about any computer game, let alone this one
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Jun 26, 2017 18:21
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Took the weekend off and sure thing, cig explodes.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:31
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shrach posted:It would show the amount if it were taken out in the year of the accounts (Next CIG accounts are for the year ending 31 December 2016). Something this substantial when there was already a disclaimer in the CIG accounts for going concern may put a note in as a post balance sheet event. Would be some note saying something like, "after the year end the company ran out of cash but is still a going concern because it secured a long term loan". The amounts probably wouldn't be disclosed until they are in the relevant accounting period. time to halt the brexit, they're gonna need EU funds for a bailout of this size
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Jun 26, 2017 18:33
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I noticed a number of basic grammatical errors in the very first line of his statement. It results in him getting all the names wrong. Something politicians routinely do is to ignore the question they are asked and instead answer the question they wish had been asked. That's what his statement attempts.  A lot of valid issues have been raised with this statement, here's the one that strikes me the most. Notice how he states it pertains only to the UK operation, which develops Squadron 42. Why would you then claim to specifically exclude "Star Citizen" when you are dealing with the UK operation, which develops Squadron 42? He's also wrong about collateral (with a small c). It's true that "Collateral" as per the definition in the documents excludes some IP. But "Collateral" is not what was given as security for the loan. The security for the loan was the Stimperial poo poo load of items listed in sections 4-5 of the documents. If you read the document, you will see "Collateral" is capitalised whenever it is used because it has a very defined meaning within the document.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:35
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The Titanic posted:Took the weekend off and sure thing, cig explodes. You of all… ehm… entities should know what happens when you forge ahead without a care and then suddenly douse something with cold water.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:42
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable. Very good spotting this. I think this is where Ortwin does his little bit of legal jujitsu--don't worry my friends and backers, the loan will get repaid because the government will always pay... And naturally the idiot backers think, "whew, see stupid goonie! This is not a problem!" But that's NOT what one should be worried about. YES, the UK government will always pay these rebates... but WILL CIG BE AROUND TO BENEFIT FROM IT? Ah yes, there it is. What the real question should be. Absolutely no reason for a company that ostensibly has plenty of funds (both from previous fundraising and ongoing pledges) in the bank to take out the corporate equivalent of a payday loan.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:49
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shrach posted:I noticed a number of basic grammatical errors in the very first line of his statement. It results in him getting all the names wrong. If you look carefully, I think you'll find that the gold fringe around Ortwin's post indicates that it is a maritime post and therefore the court has no jurisdiction in this case!
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Jun 26, 2017 18:54
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shrach posted:It's pretty contradictory but either way, it's like worrying about the deckchairs on the Titanic. The chairs are fine, friend. The money is gone but the chairs are fine.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:55
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Sappo569 posted:I know I highlighted that as well Its... INCONCEIVABLE!
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Jun 26, 2017 18:57
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MinorInconvenience posted:the loan will get repaid because the government will always pay... I think Erin gets more of a pass. But Erin cashed out his shares for some mysterious reason!
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Jun 26, 2017 18:59
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Despite being dead and gay and apparently irrelevant this comedy forum can still marshal enough influence to get the gaming media to write bad words about star citizen.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:02
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Sappo569 posted:I'm still trying to wrap my head around ortwins logic here What do you give them? 60 days? 90 tops?
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Jun 26, 2017 19:05
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The Gaming Media, known goon sympathizers.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:07
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Tank Boy Ken posted:Imagine four dollars on the edge of a cliff, each one getting thrown down in the water.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:10
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tooterfish posted:I wouldn't be too sure tbh. There's a semi-stringent cultural litmus for those rebates and "cokehead who's only British for the money" doesn't quite cut the loving mustard. Lol, the game must be certified as "British" I wonder how SQ42 met that litmus test? I also wonder, if it was ever found to be not "British" enough, the U.K. Government could demand past rebates repaid to them.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:13
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I'm frankly pretty offended that they assume all goons are eve goons 
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Jun 26, 2017 19:13
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big nipples big life posted:I'm frankly pretty offended that they assume all goons are eve goons Sounds like you should write a manifesto over an 8 hour period in the middle of the night declaring the impurity of EVE and how it is for PC master-racer's and not for the common man and how bad and poo poo it is. And don't forget to target a random nobody gamedev that vaguely criticized you so that people can focus on him 24/7 and tell him to go drink bleach. Actually, since they already have some headway, just send the views to that old guy with cancer (The one they spammed his channel with, hoping he would lose the fight)
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Jun 26, 2017 19:17
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Sounds like you should write a manifesto over an 8 hour period in the middle of the night declaring the impurity of EVE and how it is for PC master-racer's and not for the common man and how bad and poo poo it is. Manifesto? gently caress that. Fire up that IRL Twitch stream and talk it out.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:18
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Space Crabs posted:I'm the guy that thinks the obvious explanation as to why news organizations would want to cover the biggest crowdfunding disaster in history needing to take out bank loans while being 3 years past release is that it's obviously a paid conspiracy where trolls front the money to try and make Star Citizen look bad. Robert's razor: the stupidest possible option is always the correct one
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Jun 26, 2017 19:19
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http://www.bfi.org.uk/film-industry/british-certification-tax-relief/cultural-test-video-games/summary-points-cultural-test-video-games They need to score at least 16 points on that chart to be certified as "British."
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Jun 26, 2017 19:20
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Sounds like you should write a manifesto over an 8 hour period in the middle of the night declaring the impurity of EVE and how it is for PC master-racer's and not for the common man and how bad and poo poo it is. um, can i just play video games and drink cheap beer instead? Thoatse posted:Robert's razor: the stupidest and most expensive possible option is always the correct one fixed
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Jun 26, 2017 19:20
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Meridian posted:Manifesto? gently caress that. Fire up that IRL Twitch stream and talk it out. But I don't have 3 douchebag "friends" and bowtie muppet to articulate, in excruciatingly vague details, just how amazing goons are and how everything will fall into place despite all my/our doubts! big nipples big life posted:um, can i just play video games and drink cheap beer instead? Don't take my reply as an official stance, as you are your own person, but... Yes. Namaste, friend.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:23
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Sorry, meant to say Bowtie Elemental
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Jun 26, 2017 19:24
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