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Homeroom Fingering posted:It's all bullshit of course, but do Venezuelans really care if something was made in Israel or did he take the How To Become A Dictator guide from Turkey and forget to change all the fields? Yeah this one baffled me too, was it 'The attackers used an Israeli made TN-9X gas grenade.' or is it "The Jews Did This(tm)"?
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Jun 28, 2017 13:38
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This whole helicopter thing is way bizarre, even by Venezuelan standards. Here's a rough timeline of events from yesterday:
The rumour mill was spinning dangerously fast last night, and this morning a lot of people are scratching their heads and wondering exactly what happened. Here are two theories:
In order for Theory #1 to work, Perez and his rogues have to be incredibly inept, and their little operation has to be considered a monumental failure in every way possible.. If Perez was honest in his insurrection, it can't really be called an insurrection. Perez had at his disposal a total of five people, including himself, and a police helicopter with no armaments. Buzzing the Supreme Court building doesn't make any practical sense. If you've got five people and one chance to make a statement, why not attack Miraflores or Maduro directly? In order for Theory #2 to work, the regime has to have known about Perez's plan attack the TSJ. In this scenario, the regime knows what Perez is up to, deems it completely harmless, but decides to go ahead and let the man do his thing. The regime may have been hoping that people (National Assembly deputies, members of the armed forces, etc.) would answer Perez's call to join the insurrection. In doing so, these people would have revealed themselves to be traitors/terrorists/whatever, which would have given the regime an excuse to throw them in jail. This theory goes down the rabbit hole when you consider the box incident at the National Assembly earlier, since the narrative that some in the opposition are pushing is that the boxes were full of weapons and/or incriminating falsified documents that would have tied the legislature to the supposed coup. At the right moment, the regime would have said "There's a coup underway, and the National Assembly has come out in support of it!", and they would have been given a green light to do whatever they wanted with the legislature and all the deputies after "finding" the weapons that were planted earlier. Anyway, I suppose Occam's razor compels me to think that theory #1 is the correct one, and that Perez and his buddies are just a bunch of dummies who've watched too many movies and rolled a one on their mission. Negrostrike posted:What's worse? The current situation or these conservative zealots taking over? What a hosed up situation... Yeah, the whole "God's Warriors" thing sounds weird. I will say, though, that lots of Venezuelan people are extremely religious. At least they speak like religious zealots. I know that if anyone in my family made a video like that, they'd also go heavy with the "God's Warriors" and Jesus talk. Laphroaig posted:Yeah this one baffled me too, was it 'The attackers used an Israeli made TN-9X gas grenade.' or is it "The Jews Did This(tm)"? I think it was the latter. Why didn't Villegas explain which country the helicopter came from? I don't know. The only excuse I can come up with is that the regime wanted to appear to be on top of things, like the investigation into the event was well underway and yielding evidence, so they figured it was a good idea to throw that little tidbit in there.
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Jun 28, 2017 14:56
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Vlex posted:Holy poo poo, I think I got searched by this gently caress in Puerto Ayacucho. He had hair and a beard then, though. congrats at meeting pinochet 2.0 before he got big
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Jun 28, 2017 15:17
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Chuck Boone posted:Anyway, I suppose Occam's razor compels me to think that theory #1 is the correct one, and that Perez and his buddies are just a bunch of dummies who've watched too many movies and rolled a one on their mission. Personally I'd guess that they never had the intention of doing anything more than making some noise and getting some press. Buzzing the courts was a good way to get people watching their video condemning Madura. At least it was more dramatic than slinking out of the barracks at midnight and disappearing.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:48
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Chuck Boone posted:
Yeah, Theory #2 seems weird to me too — if those boxes were full of guns and incriminating documents, why wouldn't they just use them anyway even if the representatives did not rise to the occasion? It's not like they need things to be realistic, given how many other opposition party members the government has "found" driving around with C4 and AK-47s. Also that Oscar Perez guy has ridiculously striking eyes, so much so that I thought they were contact lenses in the first video. Unfortunately, come August 1st when there's a new constitution mandating Maduro as dictator for life and abolishing popular elections, people will probably regret they didn't follow Perez's suggestion.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:18
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Saladman posted:Yeah, Theory #2 seems weird to me too — if those boxes were full of guns and incriminating documents, why wouldn't they just use them anyway even if the representatives did not rise to the occasion? It's not like they need things to be realistic, given how many other opposition party members the government has "found" driving around with C4 and AK-47s. I thought he looked too striking to be a CICPC officer, turns out he moonlights as an actor and starred in a movie lol. That explains the hashtag.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:33
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Did the people in this thread educate themselves a bit about the history of CIA intervention in Latin America since last time I checked or are they still supporting the totally legitimate and democratic color revolution in Venezuela
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Jun 28, 2017 18:21
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Bob le Moche posted:Did the people in this thread educate themselves a bit about the history of CIA intervention in Latin America since last time I checked or are they still supporting the totally legitimate and democratic color revolution in Venezuela Did you educate yourself about the kids that Maduro is killing or is that still too hot of a subject for you tankies to talk about?
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Jun 28, 2017 18:28
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Bob le Moche posted:Did the people in this thread educate themselves a bit about the history of CIA intervention in Latin America since last time I checked or are they still supporting the totally legitimate and democratic color revolution in Venezuela im pretty sure most people posting in the politics nerd subforum thread about venezuela are well aware of the CIA's history in latin america dude. good job at coming off like a pompous know it all rear end in a top hat though
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Jun 28, 2017 18:36
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Bob le Moche posted:Did the people in this thread educate themselves a bit about the history of CIA intervention in Latin America since last time I checked or are they still supporting the totally legitimate and democratic color revolution in Venezuela What are you even talking about. You trying to claim the CIA is supporting Maduro?
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Jun 28, 2017 18:56
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chapo boys are on the "any opposition to psuv is a CIA backed coup" train again shame I love chapo but they're really hosed on this issue
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Jun 28, 2017 19:30
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:chapo boys are on the "any opposition to psuv is a CIA backed coup" train again You have to be completely loving deluded to support the PSUV when not even Chavistas support them, particularly now that there is overwhelming evidence of abuses from government security forces resulting in the deaths of dozens, particularly teenagers and children.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:33
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The helicopter thing made it finally hit the mainstream news aggregators I use (Google, Yahoo) though they spent more time talking about how the guy was in a movie and parroting the government's line than any actual reporting on what led to this.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:07
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:chapo boys are on the "any opposition to psuv is a CIA backed coup" train again The continued willingness to defend the Maduro regime is proof that even people who mock the tankies of previous generations can still prove to be their equivalent today.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:10
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Bob le Moche posted:Did the people in this thread educate themselves a bit about the history of CIA intervention in Latin America since last time I checked or are they still supporting the totally legitimate and democratic color revolution in Venezuela God, it's like clockwork.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:16
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imo people itt rooting for maduro to fall to the cia and reactionaries are exactly like those accelerationists who wanted trump to win
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Jun 28, 2017 20:22
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Bob le Moche posted:Did the people in this thread educate themselves a bit about the history of CIA intervention in Latin America since last time I checked or are they still supporting the totally legitimate and democratic color revolution in Venezuela What kind of drugs are you taking
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Jun 28, 2017 20:23
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:imo people itt rooting for maduro to fall to the cia and reactionaries are exactly like those accelerationists who wanted trump to win Or they're not tankies who think authoritarianism and mass poverty are okay as long as the dictator mouths the correct ideological platitudes.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:32
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:imo people itt rooting for maduro to fall to the cia and reactionaries are exactly like those accelerationists who wanted trump to win There's lots of room for intelligent conversation here. But if your starting premise is that anyone who isn't the PSUV is the "cia and reactonaries", then we can't have an intelligent conversation.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:32
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Maybe Maduro and the woke coup bae can share power?
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Jun 28, 2017 20:43
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nobody but the cia and reactionaries are in a position to take control if the psuv goes under these circumstances. how many times has this happened in other places. its always reactionaries and religious zealots under a cloud of american cash. sometimes they wear nice suits, sometimes not. the helicopter bomb tosser was a big fan of john mcnaughton paintings though lol
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Jun 28, 2017 20:45
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They do raise an interesting point, is there any evidence of US intelligence operations in Venezuela? Statements by government officials, suspicious flight plans, leaked memos, etc? Typically in these cases, for example counter Sandinista operations during the 1980s, US politicians and operatives can't keep their mouths shut and will often even boast of their subterfuge, even if only anonymously to the Washington post.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:52
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:imo people itt rooting for maduro to fall to the cia and reactionaries are exactly like those accelerationists who wanted trump to win imo people itt rooting for maduro to stay in power are morons
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Jun 28, 2017 20:56
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Squalid posted:They do raise an interesting point, is there any evidence of US intelligence operations in Venezuela? Statements by government officials, suspicious flight plans, leaked memos, etc? Typically in these cases, for example counter Sandinista operations during the 1980s, US politicians and operatives can't keep their mouths shut and will often even boast of their subterfuge, even if only anonymously to the Washington post. We had a congressman who bragged when he thought Trump was backing ISIS to strike at Iran, so if we had a major sustained effort to bring down Maduro, we probably would have heard something. I'm sure the CIA is in touch with people here and there, but I also think it's pretty obvious that there's genuine grassroots anger at this regime and the course the country has taken over the last few years.
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Jun 28, 2017 20:57
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lol there's no food and people are literally starving to death and the tankies are coming in here to tell actual Venezuelans that they're a bunch of CIA puppets. Way to be completely disconnected from basic human empathy
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Jun 28, 2017 21:03
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Squalid posted:They do raise an interesting point, is there any evidence of US intelligence operations in Venezuela? Statements by government officials, suspicious flight plans, leaked memos, etc? Typically in these cases, for example counter Sandinista operations during the 1980s, US politicians and operatives can't keep their mouths shut and will often even boast of their subterfuge, even if only anonymously to the Washington post. Maduro is behaving exactly like a CIA-installed conservative dictator would. DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:nobody but the cia and reactionaries are in a position to take control if the psuv goes under these circumstances. Wow, sure is weird that when Chavez and then Maduro killed or imprisoned all the normal opposition, that left a power vacuum huh?
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Jun 28, 2017 21:13
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fishmech posted:Maduro is behaving exactly like a CIA-installed conservative dictator would. Bingo. Anyone who opposes CIA installed dictators must oppose Maduro, or else prove the only reason they opposed the dictators in the first place is because of who backs them, not because of what they do.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:16
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maduro has done more damage to the overall cause of leftism in latin america then the past 3 graduating classes of the school of the americas combined and as a leftist i would be glad to see him gone
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Jun 28, 2017 21:16
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Zikan posted:maduro has done more damage to the overall cause of leftism in latin america then the past 3 graduating classes of the school of the americas combined and as a leftist i would be glad to see him gone What if... Maduro attended the School of the Americas?  It's CIA puppets all the way down
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Jun 28, 2017 21:19
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:imo people itt rooting for maduro to fall to the cia and reactionaries are exactly like those accelerationists who wanted trump to win How would a CIA-backed coup in Venezuela actually produce a government that's worse than what it has now?
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Jun 28, 2017 21:30
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ISIS CURES TROONS posted:How would a CIA-backed coup in Venezuela actually produce a government that's worse than what it has now? Well the US supported Pol Pot so I suppose it's possible things could be worse. It'd take a lot of doing though.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:32
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It's especially frustrating because it feels like, what do people expect the Venezuelans to do? Are they supposed to just quietly starve in the streets and hope the PSUV will save them despite their continued and gross incompetence? These people are clearly infuriated and in a lot of cases it's not as if they have anything to go back to anymore. My heart really does go out to them because it feels as if there is no good or peacable outcome even if they do overthrow the government, especially given the PSUV's efforts at scaring off any strong opposition over the past few years.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:43
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Let's be real if the CIA gave a poo poo about intervening in Venezuela they'd just ride the current VP's accused terror ties into extrajudicially murdering whoever the gently caress they felt like.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:46
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A fat goony tankie approaches an emaciated Venezuelan child eating out of the trash. "Keep it up Lil' Comrade, your Revolutionary struggle will finally expose the evil of the Yanqui empire to the world!"
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Jun 28, 2017 22:04
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:nobody but the cia and reactionaries are in a position to take control if the psuv goes under these circumstances. how many times has this happened in other places. its always reactionaries and religious zealots under a cloud of american cash. sometimes they wear nice suits, sometimes not. the helicopter bomb tosser was a big fan of john mcnaughton paintings though lol This is like... pure Nixonian logic, only from the left. "It's either our strongmen or their strongmen," with no hope for or faith in the people of the Third World. Only it's also reversed, because this time, the CIA can provide material stability and goods for the poor while the Leftists are the ones promising abstract, inedible concepts. I don't think the CIA is terribly interested in Venezuela because an inept, flailing PSUV is weak and easily worked around, meaning it has no ability to really hamper US interests in the region. Venezuela's oil isn't worth as much as it once was, America's already getting it, and the country really doesn't have much else to offer the corporate elite, so it's just kind of irrelevant. Maduro can't even be the gadfly to the US like Chavez was because 1) his country is on fire and 2) he's a completely charmless buffoon. The CIA's done dumber, more pointless things in its history, so who knows? Maybe they're toppling the PSUV out of spite or habit, but it's not the 80s anymore. America's international rivals, like China and Russia, don't move like the USSR. They're not trying to ideologically move into "America's backyard" or plant missiles, and it's all moot besides because even they don't seem interested in this dumpster fire anymore.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:07
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If the CIA were involved, Maduro would be out already. There's no way the CIA is so loving incompetent they can't off a despised dictator that regularly finds himself being mocked by his own followers and gets poo poo thrown at him in rallies. Literally every argument about how come the CIA hasn't taken down Maduro if they're fuelling the opposition is absurd. Can't get guns in? Even the prisoners have AR-15s. Can't find somebody willing to immolate themselves to take down the government? There's kids going out every day with wooden shields to stand against the National Guard and their onslaught. Don't have enough money? A dollar is worth 8000 bolivares, the minimum monthly wage is 10 bucks, give a guy $2000 and he's rich. They're afraid of international perception? Not even loving Bolivia or Ecuador are backing Venezuela anymore, they're a diplomatic pariah and everyone in the region would much rather have another government and everything but the tankiest of news sites have turned against them. Can't get in? The US embassy in Caracas is still loving open and has been open for the entirety of Maduro's term. fnox fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 22:14
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consumed by normies posted:im pretty sure most people posting in the politics nerd subforum thread about venezuela are well aware of the CIA's history in latin america dude. good job at coming off like a pompous know it all rear end in a top hat though Precambrian posted:this time, the CIA can provide material stability and goods for the poor haha ok North Americans: If you want to help the starving Venezuelan people how about you pressure your own government to lift economic sanctions, which is something that you can actually do and where you actually have some power to change things, as opposed to doing their imperial propaganda work for them or acting as if the Venezuelan government gives any poo poo what you think?
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Jun 28, 2017 22:20
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Bob le Moche posted:haha ok There's no economic sanctions against anybody but corrupt government officials you loving idiot. No, the US government shouldn't give PSUVistas their Miami residences back.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:24
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Bob le Moche posted:North Americans: If you want to help the starving Venezuelan people how about you pressure your own government to lift economic sanctions, which is something that you can actually do and where you actually have some power to change things, as opposed to doing their imperial propaganda work for them or acting as if the Venezuelan government gives any poo poo what you think? The U.S. has not placed economic sanctions on Venezuela. The U.S. has placed targeted sanctions against a handful of officials (about a dozen or so) who are suspected of being directly involved in human rights violations in the country. These are high-ranking military officials for the most part. The vice president has also been sanctioned over his alleged active role in the drug trade. These sanctions are targeted only at a handful of named individuals. The sanctions are in the form of travel bans and asset freezing in the U.S. Let me repeat for the sake of clarity: there are currently no sanctions against Venezuela. EDIT: Here's a video of National Guard soldiers beating and dragging an unconscious CIA-backed reactionary and leaving him to die underneath the afternoon rain (likely in Altamira, Caracas) earlier today: https://twitter.com/ReporteYa/status/880175724438708224 Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 22:26
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Eh, not worth.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:48
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