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Reinanigans posted:HG/SS are good, but be prepared to very slowly grind your Pokémon if you ever hope to beat Red at the end. The level curve in the game is terrible. Apart from that, really solid games with an aesthetic I love. Aww man, seriously? I thought that would've been fixed in the midst of all the other effort going into remaking the game, like the physical and special split. Dammit. I know it was bad in the original and I thought that wasn't true anymore. Shenanigans posted:Platinum is...really, really good. Only play this if you haven't played anything past the 4th generation though, as mentioned, it's missing a lot of QoL improvements. Well that helps. Is getting the first 150 pokemon easier? I remember not seeing like five of them when I played Pearl and that gated me for the longest time because I had no idea what was missing. Are any of the games really good at letting you refight Gym leaders fairly quickly? The world tournament thing you mentioned seems like it rotates instead of letting you pick, from what I glanced over. Crosspeice posted:
You think that's bad? I didn't notice its eyes at first and thought that GameFreak had made a crab with a giant butt.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:00
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RareAcumen posted:You think that's bad? I didn't notice its eyes at first and thought that GameFreak had made a crab with a giant butt. 
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Jun 29, 2017 07:03
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Crobat is 5 feet tall. Just in case you didn't know.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:05
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Jazerus posted:Crobat is 5 feet tall. Boy, it sure is a good thing that they aren't affectionate or anything! Also that those things aren't common like Pidgeys.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:11
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RareAcumen posted:Aww man, seriously? I thought that would've been fixed in the midst of all the other effort going into remaking the game, like the physical and special split. Dammit. I know it was bad in the original and I thought that wasn't true anymore. In Platinum if you fight every trainer in the game you will have seen every pokemon in the dex. Also there is no pokemon game that quickly lets you refight gym leaders, the best is probably Platinum if you don't like the world tournament because you just need to get to the battle frontier and there's a cafe where you can fight gym leaders and other significant trainers with beefed up pokemon. You can do it in HG/SS but only after you've beat the league and you need to find where the gym leaders hang out during their breaks which are only on certain days to get their numbers. I don't think any of the gen v games have gym leader refights outside of the World Tournament, though that's still the best for refights since it has literally every gym leader over all generations as possible opponents even if it doesn't open till after you've beat the league. X/Y and ORASS don't have refights and Sun and Moon doesn't have gyms.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:12
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I think I put Wailord on my team solely because it's funny to imagine battling indoors with a giant.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:12
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RareAcumen posted:Boy, it sure is a good thing that they aren't affectionate or anything! Golbat aren't any smaller! Crobat is especially terrifying tho since it's so fast, and it's affectionate toward its trainer, not anybody else. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 07:24
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The White Dragon posted:yeah the anime never really keeps up with the whole size consistency thing. like snivy is 2ft tall but it's super short in the show, or dunsparce is like 20ft long but it's super tiny in the show (and pokemon mystery dungeon) Not tall but long.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:28
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Some pokemon are also absurdly small and get sized up in basically every depiction. Like Mimikyu is supposed to be 8 inches tall. Or the classic example of Nidoking/Queen who are roughly the height of a ten year old.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:35
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Zore posted:Like Mimikyu is supposed to be 8 inches tall. Yeah, the thing under the cloak obviously is. Inside the Pikachu head is just stuffing. The ghost fairy inside is only about as tall as up to the neck of the disguise.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:38
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The Narrator posted:I think I put Wailord on my team solely because it's funny to imagine battling indoors with a giant. 
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Jun 29, 2017 07:39
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I feel like I ought to do a defence of XY. Y was my first Pokemon game, so I'm pretty biased but here goes: Let’s look at the actually good stuff first. Number one is probably the regional pokedex, featuring 450 mons with pretty good variety. Hell, the game hands you your choice of Gen 1 starter shortly after the first gym (that could be an amusing run of XY, only going with pokemon you get for free - in addition to your choice of Gen 6 and Gen 1 starter, you also get a free Lucario and Lapras). Another neat thing about the variety, especially the way the dex is broken up over three subregions, is that you're always seeing something new in the tall grass as you move through the game, which I perhaps didn't quite appreciate until I played ORAS and ran into Pelipper #4291. It does have its downside - for instance, if you want to have a Noibat/Noivern in your team, you'll be waiting until after you've beaten Team Flare. But on the whole, it feels pretty neat. For me, the art team nailed the art style for the first main 3D pokemon game straight away, especially the in-battle models for the pokemon (of course, ORAS and SuMo build on this - arguably XY's biggest problem is that SuMo does most things it does better). The thin outlines and cell shading is a really great approach - if a 3D Advance Wars ever got made (HINT HINT, Nintendo), I'd love it to take its art cues from the X and Y. All right, let’s move on to the not so good stuff. Yes, the characters are pretty bad, especially compared with the Sumo crowd. It has its moments, at least - Tierno grew on me, if only because he isn't constantly getting his hopes dashed by the protagonist the way that your rival and Trevor are. Team Flare are very, very hateable and unsympathetic, but I can see the thought processes behind their creation - a mix of futurism (especially ideas of tearing down the old world to build a new one), Ayn Rand and Roger-Moore-era James Bond villainy (pet theory: Moonraker is a copy/paste of The Spy Who Loved Me with "space" replacing "ocean". They even both have Jaws!) Prof. Sycamore gets a lot of flak for not seeing his old friend Lysandre for the near-omnicidal maniac he was, which definitely makes him one of the most flawed profs, but flaws can be interesting. It arguably speaks to society's habit of giving successful businesspeople way too much leeway to be shitheads to everyone else. Maybe that's not a great theme for a world as generally optimistic as Pokemon, but it's probably not a bad idea to tell kids to keep an eye on jerks like this if they start spouting off and everyone else just smiles and nods. Okay, I've written way too many words about X and Y here. There's probably a bunch more to talk about, but like I said at the start, I'm biased - Y and X (in that order) were my first pokeymans, so any other stuff I say will be coming through that lens. And I think it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Sun and Moon improve on them in nearly every respect. I still like them though.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:44
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It's hosed up people like ORAS more then XY I tells ya.
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Jun 29, 2017 08:22
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Kikas posted:It's hosed up people like ORAS more then XY I tells ya. 
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Jun 29, 2017 08:29
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I solved the leveling problem in HGSS by importing a couple low level Pokemon I wanted to use from Platinum at the start (also so I got an early Larvitar) and then trading them back to Plat prior to the Elite 4 for some training against Pokemon that give decent XP. A half-assed and convoluted solution, I imagine the developers approve.
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Jun 29, 2017 08:59
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RareAcumen posted:Aww man, seriously? I thought that would've been fixed in the midst of all the other effort going into remaking the game, like the physical and special split. Dammit. I know it was bad in the original and I thought that wasn't true anymore. you don't have to grind to beat red's team. yea, alright, they're high level and all, but a level 80 pikachu is still a pikachu y'know. a team in the mid 50s could take him no problem and you will be that high by the time you fight red the best way to play is to get 6 lucky eggs tho because the exp thing is a legit problem with that game
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Jun 29, 2017 09:37
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Manatee Cannon posted:you don't have to grind to beat red's team. yea, alright, they're high level and all, but a level 80 pikachu is still a pikachu y'know. a team in the mid 50s could take him no problem and you will be that high by the time you fight red Oh. Oh, I read that and thought it was just talking about exp scaling in general.
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Jun 29, 2017 10:02
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RareAcumen posted:Oh. Oh, I read that and thought it was just talking about exp scaling in general. They are just talking about the exp scaling in general. Its incredibly poorly balanced since wild pokemon cap out at like level 40, and only in the post-game area Mt. Silver you go to after you beat all 16 gyms and round 2 of the Elite 4. Johto mostly works, Clair is a bit of a spike but if you go out of your way to explore all the caves and such you'll fight enough trainers to be properly levelled. Unfortunately once you hit the E4 and Kanto that all goes away. The wild pokemon are roughly the levels they are in R/B, and so are worthless to try to grind on. The gym leaders themselves are a pretty massive spike in levels from the E4, and the E4 second round is a spike from there. Though frankly, if you can get through them, Red's not difficult to take down. Even moreso since they replaced his Espeon with a Lapras.
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Jun 29, 2017 10:57
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Zore posted:They are just talking about the exp scaling in general. Its incredibly poorly balanced since wild pokemon cap out at like level 40, and only in the post-game area Mt. Silver you go to after you beat all 16 gyms and round 2 of the Elite 4. Johto mostly works, Clair is a bit of a spike but if you go out of your way to explore all the caves and such you'll fight enough trainers to be properly levelled. Jesus Christ, for a second, I thought you'd slipped into talking about normal Gold and Silver. How did this not get fixed once they had the opportunity to do so? 
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Jun 29, 2017 12:40
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RareAcumen posted:Jesus Christ, for a second, I thought you'd slipped into talking about normal Gold and Silver. How did this not get fixed once they had the opportunity to do so? Because Gamefreak makes baffling decisions in their remakes. See: Firered and Leafgreen locking you to the original 150 until postgame even with pokemon that got new evos in gens 2/3. Or ORAS keeping R/S/E's horrible pokemon selection until a shoehorned plot event after gym 7 where they're like 'gently caress it, I guess there are just a bunch of cool and good pokemon around now???'
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Jun 29, 2017 12:46
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Kikas posted:It's hosed up people like ORAS more then XY I tells ya. ORAS had a team of pirates that wanted to make the world a water themepark. I struggle to even remember what Flare even wanted.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:48
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Momomo posted:ORAS had a team of pirates that wanted to make the world a water themepark. I struggle to even remember what Flare even wanted. Mass genocide. Because there are too many people/pokemon in the world and only the beautiful should survive. and then Lysandre tries to murder/curse you with immortality with his fantasy genocide machine before you escape and he dies in the rubble. which is all somehow less stupid than Archie and Maxie and their plans.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:50
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That was what Lysander wanted, which he only explained at the last minute. The rest of them just wanted, uh, I'll get back to you on that.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:56
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Zore posted:which is all somehow less stupid than Archie and Maxie and their plans. I beg to differ. Anyway, XY in general was just super forgettable. It felt like they put all their creative juices in making sure the battles looked good, and didn't focus enough on the world itself. I can name off Hoenn's gym leaders, towns, and significant characters, but with XY I barely remember any of them.
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Jun 29, 2017 12:57
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Dabir posted:That was what Lysander wanted, which he only explained at the last minute. The rest of them just wanted, uh, I'll get back to you on that. They were rich assholes who bought into an exclusive club and used it as an excuse to go around being dicks. Which is basically the motivation for almost all grunts in the series.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:02
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Momomo posted:Anyway, XY in general was just super forgettable. It felt like they put all their creative juices in making sure the battles looked good, and didn't focus enough on the world itself. I can name off Hoenn's gym leaders, towns, and significant characters, but with XY I barely remember any of them. I think part of that is due to how RSE is a really old game, so there's been plenty of time to accept it into the long term memory, through the anime, the remake, with how many times you played it, especially as a kid. Whereas XY came out only 4 years ago, came out when you were much older so you didn't dedicate enough time to it as you had a lot of other things to do in life. Not only that, but how many times have you played it? Once? Maybe twice? Now part of this can be because the games aren't too memorable, you can definitely remember SM a lot more, but that's probably because you played them, like, six months ago. Would you be able to say the same in another 5 years? There's a lot of factors why XY aren't received as well as other games, they sold as well as most debut gens, they have all the right mechanics that make them a classic Pokemon adventure, but a big factor is they didn't have lasting appeal. Part of that is attributed to a lacklustre postgame, or to how it's the sixth main instalment of a game structure that hasn't really changed in nearly 2 decades, or to how you haven't played them over and over like you did with earlier games. I have no idea how many times I've played through Gen 1, Gen 2, etc. But I know how many times I've played XY: twice. I completed the Pokedex in them, I created a living dex, I did everything I could in those games. So I don't have a reason to go back to them. Which means in 5 years time, I'll barely remember anything about them.
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Jun 29, 2017 13:18
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ORAS is the only mainline Pokemon game I have quit partway through and never finished It's not v. good
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Jun 29, 2017 14:03
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I'd imagine that Diamond, Pearl and Platinum are slowly are entering that "nostalgia" phase. Especially when Pokémon like Piplup, Lucario, Garchomp and human characters like Cynthia and Looker keep popping up. Also now that Pokémon is over 20, it's more likely that you'll come across teens and young adults whose first games were the Nintendo DS titles. I remember talking to a kid about Pokémon and his opinion on the Gen 1 starters were that they were "boring and weird" compared to the Gen 6 ones.
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Jun 29, 2017 14:05
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Yeah. Also I have tons of nostalgia for gen VI, and a massive amount of hours in it, because wonder trade is so fun and you can do it while watching TV or whatever l. You get the weirdest poo poo mixed in with the obvious hacks and route 1 trashmons. It scratches that same itch as a slot machine or gatcha. I will never forget you "your mom' the Miltank holding a burn heal. 
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Jun 29, 2017 14:20
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Zuzie posted:Also now that Pokémon is over 20, it's more likely that you'll come across teens and young adults whose first games were the Nintendo DS titles. I remember talking to a kid about Pokémon and his opinion on the Gen 1 starters were that they were "boring and weird" compared to the Gen 6 ones. I assume you're posting from jail right now, awaiting trial for beating a child.
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Jun 29, 2017 14:22
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Looping back a bit, it's really not that hard to level up in HG/SS's postgame with the gym leader rematch system. When you're at a time of day when a gym leader can be rematched, you can call them, invite them to the Dojo, fight them, then leave and call them again as long as the time of day doesn't change from Morning to Afternoon or Afternoon to Night. At worst you're fighting Bugsy's low-EXP Shedinja or something. The levels are high, the teams are stacked, and the EXP is consistent. Also, the Elite Four does upgrade once you beat Blue to have full teams and much higher levels, so you can consistently grind there as well. I'm not going to pretend that the level curve/distribution in GSC and HG/SS is perfect, but at least HG/SS fixed the Kanto portion a lot better.
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Jun 29, 2017 14:38
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For the record, HG is probably my second favorite game in the series, after Black. I personally didn't have an issue with the level curve, at least not enough to remember. Then again, in a lot of ways, I am incredibly easy to please and am able/willing to overlook flaws in things I like. That said, even I couldn't overlook a lot of the problems of ORAS and XY. Crosspeice posted:I think part of that is due to how RSE is a really old game, so there's been plenty of time to accept it into the long term memory, through the anime, the remake, with how many times you played it, especially as a kid. Whereas XY came out only 4 years ago, came out when you were much older so you didn't dedicate enough time to it as you had a lot of other things to do in life. Not only that, but how many times have you played it? Once? Maybe twice? Now part of this can be because the games aren't too memorable, you can definitely remember SM a lot more, but that's probably because you played them, like, six months ago. Would you be able to say the same in another 5 years? This is a really good post. I enjoyed Y while I played it, but it really is rather forgettable for all of the reasons stated. I do have a feeling SuMo are going to be quite a bit more memorable, not the least of which because there's going to be an "Ultra" version. Zuzie posted:I'd imagine that Diamond, Pearl and Platinum are slowly are entering that "nostalgia" phase. Especially when Pokémon like Piplup, Lucario, Garchomp and human characters like Cynthia and Looker keep popping up. I am super hyped up for some DPPt remakes. Gen 4 was the gen that introduced online battling, and thus the first time I really cared about breeding and raising a viable team outside of the story, so it has a very special place in my heart. Sinnoh is a pretty awesome region, the characters aren't as "deep" as some that would follow, but memorable, and it has probably the best lineup of starters since RBG. I'd love to play through Sinnoh with a fresh coat of paint and all of the QoL features.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:40
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Ash using Electro Ball
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Jun 29, 2017 16:50
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Kikas posted:It's hosed up people like ORAS more then XY I tells ya. Both games just felt really shallow. I guess having a Battle Frontier like Emerald's or Platinum's is just too much to ask for.
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Jun 29, 2017 18:13
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Kikas posted:It's hosed up people like ORAS more then XY I tells ya. Pokemon without DexNav is not Pokemon. Have fun your dumb Pokemon knockoff, loser.
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Jun 29, 2017 18:21
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Star Man posted:I guess having a Battle Frontier like Emerald's or Platinum's is just too much to ask for. it just wasn't finished in time, maybe the builders in Hoenn went on strike or something 
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Jun 29, 2017 18:23
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Star Man posted:Both games just felt really shallow. I guess having a Battle Frontier like Emerald's or Platinum's is just too much to ask for. it's pretty funny that they put the island there but not the frontier itself
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Jun 29, 2017 18:24
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I mean, they also had new forms for Zygarde planned and featured in a movie but just rolled it into generation seven instead of coming out with a version Z.
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Jun 29, 2017 18:30
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Crosspeice posted:I think part of that is due to how RSE is a really old game, so there's been plenty of time to accept it into the long term memory, through the anime, the remake, with how many times you played it, especially as a kid. Whereas XY came out only 4 years ago, came out when you were much older so you didn't dedicate enough time to it as you had a lot of other things to do in life. Not only that, but how many times have you played it? Once? Maybe twice? Now part of this can be because the games aren't too memorable, you can definitely remember SM a lot more, but that's probably because you played them, like, six months ago. Would you be able to say the same in another 5 years? SM ditching gyms in favour of the island challenge makes it pretty fresh and imo it will prove to be one of the more memorable titles in the series
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Jun 29, 2017 19:42
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