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I'd probably just do the marines in a different scheme altogether, there's got to be some other chapter you like other than the Space Sharks. Why do you want to run Raptors, anyway?
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Jun 30, 2017 16:08
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I'd probably just do the marines in a different scheme altogether, there's got to be some other chapter you like other than the Space Sharks. Why do you want to run Raptors, anyway? Because Lias Issodon is rad. I will probably just end up doing one scheme and running one character at any given time - The chances of me playing a big enough game to run all three at once with their attendant squads is probably low.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:09
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Corrode posted:FW poo poo should never have been allowed in the first place. It was always the case that people understood FW rules were garbage and it was habitually banned, and it was only towards very late 5th and into 6th that it started becoming normal to let people bring FW to tournaments. It was a bad change and should be walked back asap because for every guy who just wants to play his barely-worth-it-but-fun fancy monster, there's five who started salivating when they found out about something hideously undercosted. FW stuff is cool and fun, actually.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:10
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JoshTheStampede posted:Because Lias Issodon is rad. I will probably just end up doing one scheme and running one character at any given time - The chances of me playing a big enough game to run all three at once with their attendant squads is probably low. Raptors are the reasonable marines that change how their armors are painted depending on where they are fighting, so you can paint them in urban camo or whatever if you don't like the olive color scheme!
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Jun 30, 2017 16:21
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tallkidwithglasses posted:FW stuff is cool and fun, actually. Counterpoint: FW has always sucked.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:31
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Corrode posted:Counterpoint: FW has always sucked. This is a Stephen A Smith + Skip Bayless DBZ fusion dance tier Nuclear Bad Take.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:33
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tallkidwithglasses posted:This is a Stephen A Smith + Skip Bayless DBZ fusion dance tier Nuclear Bad Take. I know what all these words mean separately but I have no clue what they're doing together in this sentence.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:39
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Corrode posted:Counterpoint: FW has always sucked. Countercounterpoint: so has your mother
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Jun 30, 2017 16:39
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tallkidwithglasses posted:This is a Stephen A Smith + Skip Bayless DBZ fusion dance tier Nuclear Bad Take. Gargantuan Squiggoths, things of that nature.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:40
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Corrode posted:I know what all these words mean separately but I have no clue what they're doing together in this sentence. Two notorious bad opinionhavers doing a dumb little dance and creating you, the super saiyan of bad opinions.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:47
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chutche2 posted:I've seen a few games with gargoyles and they've never done enough to make it worth bringing them for their cost. Really have to disagree here. Unless you need the troop slot i would always take 20 gargoyles over 24 hormaguants. They move faster, have fleshborers, have fly, and blinding vemon, and all you lose is 28 meh close combat attacks. Fly makes it just as easy to surround and since both are more or less there to tie stuff up for the better stuff getting a couple of less wounds in close combat and causing them to have -1 to hit is good trade. The biggest downside to gargoyles over hormaguants is that the are hard to trasport and their little spiky bits sink into foam and snap.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:52
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JoshTheStampede posted:Because Lias Issodon is rad. I will probably just end up doing one scheme and running one character at any given time - The chances of me playing a big enough game to run all three at once with their attendant squads is probably low. Did Lias get rules in the FW Imperium Index? I haven't checked it out yet as my Raptors have taken a back seat in the painting queue.
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Jun 30, 2017 17:30
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Fuegan posted:Did Lias get rules in the FW Imperium Index? I haven't checked it out yet as my Raptors have taken a back seat in the painting queue. Yep. He's got a great Assault sniper rifle, basically, can shoot after falling back, and can bring 3 squads of non-terminator, non-primaris, non-centurions to deep strike with him. e: he also adds 1 to all moves and charges by Raptors within 6" JoshTheStampede fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 17:31
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I've played a couple of games of 8th now and the rules for targeting characters has bitten me in the rear end both times. I didn't think it would come up much at all, but In both games, I've had an enemy character completely in the open and the closest visible target except for an enemy unit in close combat. They weren't even near each other, the squad in combat just happened to be slightly closer so my units couldn't fire at a character standing around like an idiot. It's loving dumb. It should have been the closest visible, viable target. There are a few cases like this where the game would have been improved with an additional sentence, or even a single word, added in the right place. I also liked how GW addressed modifiers and re-rolls in their little commentary and there is absolutely nothing in the rulebook to indicate where this decision came from. I mean, it's fine, it's not hard to work out, but it really should have been in the rulebook.
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Jun 30, 2017 17:47
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I can understand the idea behind it, since characters don't attach to units anymore, they're far more vulnerable to getting picked off in a lucky round of shooting. But other units already in combat shouldn't count as being closer.
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Jun 30, 2017 17:49
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Safety Factor posted:I've played a couple of games of 8th now and the rules for targeting characters has bitten me in the rear end both times. I didn't think it would come up much at all, but In both games, I've had an enemy character completely in the open and the closest visible target except for an enemy unit in close combat. They weren't even near each other, the squad in combat just happened to be slightly closer so my units couldn't fire at a character standing around like an idiot. It's loving dumb. It should have been the closest visible, viable target. The reroll/modifiers interaction is absolutely in the rulebook. It's spelled out pretty clearly in a blurb on the side of one of the pages. I don't have the book with me to provide a page number since I'm at work but I can completely guarantee it's in there.
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Jun 30, 2017 17:52
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Really have to disagree here. Unless you need the troop slot i would always take 20 gargoyles over 24 hormaguants. They move faster, have fleshborers, have fly, and blinding vemon, and all you lose is 28 meh close combat attacks. Fly makes it just as easy to surround and since both are more or less there to tie stuff up for the better stuff getting a couple of less wounds in close combat and causing them to have -1 to hit is good trade. Gargoyles are flying termagants, not hormagaunts. 24 hormagaunts vs 20 gargoyles isn't the comparison really, it's 30 termagants vs 20 gargoyles. And with hormagaunts rerolling wounds and hits of 1 their melee is better than it looks.
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Jun 30, 2017 17:56
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Pendent posted:The reroll/modifiers interaction is absolutely in the rulebook. It's spelled out pretty clearly in a blurb on the side of one of the pages. I don't have the book with me to provide a page number since I'm at work but I can completely guarantee it's in there. No one else in my store knew that statement was there either. I played a game of 8th last night and that came up in conversation afterwards. Weird. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 17:59
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Safety Factor posted:I just re-read the blurb on re-rolls and, you're right, it's there. I had previously read that a dice could only be re-rolled once and stopped because I am a dumb and assumed there wasn't anything new in there. You'd really think that a pretty important statement like that might be featured more prominently. How much more prominently can it really feature? It's a single paragraph of text which is the whole rules for re-rolls.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:07
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It warranted an article on Warhammer Community, it's a pretty big mechanical shift.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:12
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Corrode posted:How much more prominently can it really feature? It's a single paragraph of text which is the whole rules for re-rolls.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:13
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chutche2 posted:Gargoyles are flying termagants, not hormagaunts. 24 hormagaunts vs 20 gargoyles isn't the comparison really, it's 30 termagants vs 20 gargoyles. And with hormagaunts rerolling wounds and hits of 1 their melee is better than it looks. Your saying you shouldn't compare Gargoyles to hormaguants? Sorry thats dumb, you should compare all units that share even similar roles in a codex. Hormaguants dont do anything significant gargoyles can't as far as i can tell, so whats the good reason for not comparing them other than you say so. Do you not compare hormagaunts to termagants? Termagants are better than both in my opinion because devourer termagants are great and sticking 10 in a unit of 30 makes them pretty safe. Not to mention they get even stronger with a tervigon. But that is besides my point. My point was cutting gargoyles before hormaguants is bad advice if you are purly tyring to make a stronger list. Rerolling 1s is ok. But for alot of things you are wounding on a 5s so your never going to do a lot of damage with either. I have ran them in the 3 games I have played and they are the worst performing unit I run. I still love them as they look cool on the board. Dont forget Gargoyles get to reroll 1s to wound on shooting when 20+, which is actually better since fleshborers are S 4 so they are wounding on 4s and 3s sometimes, which makes the 1 reroll better. Unlike hormaguants they will actually do something turn one as well as they can advance and still shoot. So gargoyles will have 2 rounds of shooting and a charge while hormaguants will just get to charge.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:20
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Aren't fleshborers 12 inch range? I feel like if you're rushing your unsupported screen up into rapid fire bolter range and without support from your army turn 1 to shoot a bunch of BS5+ bolt pistols your opponent will thank you
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Jun 30, 2017 18:47
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chutche2 posted:Aren't fleshborers 12 inch range? I feel like if you're rushing your unsupported screen up into rapid fire bolter range and without support from your army turn 1 to shoot a bunch of BS5+ bolt pistols your opponent will thank you What would make them unsupported, you just daisy chain like 3 of them into a malenthrope/venomthrope range and they are as support as anything else in your army... plus everything else is like just 4-8" back its not like they are going to be WAY out in front. Also nothing is requiring you moving them up that far if its a tactical error like moving into a 1st rank 2 rank situation, but having the option of advancing an extra 4" and shooting a BS5+ is better than not having that option. Shooting first is normally best, gargoyles don't even have to advance a lot of the time to get into range with their fleshborers turn 1, which makes them even better.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:05
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chutche2 posted:Aren't fleshborers 12 inch range? I feel like if you're rushing your unsupported screen up into rapid fire bolter range and without support from your army turn 1 to shoot a bunch of BS5+ bolt pistols your opponent will thank you  if you care about your screen dying. That just means mission accomplished. Tyranids are fast, so leaving the army behind is almost impossible.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:13
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You seem way more invested in this argument than I am. I don't particularly care what he brings, you win.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:32
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flamingweedle posted:I'm not really sure. Aren't there markerlight and shield drones? I think my ebay rescue hammerhead has missile pod ones. I'm painfully new to the game and have only played tiny games with marines and necrons. Alright, here is a drone primer for you, with my opinions on them. I'm only covering the optional drones here, I think the Ghostkeel has to take its special drones and there isn't a reason not to. Tactical Drones - Tactical Drones are the most common drones. They are the drones your Battlesuits can bring with them, and the drones that can come in their own independent squads. There are three types of these. All of them can jump in front of Tau infantry/battlesuits to try and save them if they happen to be nearby. Gun Drones - As fast as your battlesuits, tougher than your regular infantry. Armed with two pulse carbines, meaning that they are incredibly efficient shooting (Four shots, two per carbine). They probably benefit the most from buffs, because the Drone Controller, Cadre Fireblade and Ethereal all do very good things for the drones (boosting ballistic skill, getting two extra shots and helping with poor leadership, respectively). I'm a very big fan of these guys, they are some of the best anti-horde/anti-infantry Tau can get. They can even do some stuff to vehicles through sheer weight of fire, but much less efficiently. Shield Drones - Good for protecting big battlesuit blobs/Broadsides. These are much more specialized, basically. Keep them around something you definitely want alive, the Shield Generators might be good for absorbing another lascannon/fusion blaster instead of a Commander/Broadside/Riptide. Marker Drones - with a Drone Controller nearby they are pretty good markerlight platforms. Faster, significantly tougher than Pathfinders, can move and shoot their markerlights without penalty and so on. The Pathfinders have good special weapons/drones though so it can even out. I'm considering taking a pair with my Commanders to sprinkle their 1 markerlight hit so the Commander can re-roll misses. A good unit, but with stiff competition from Pathfinders who are more flexible. Pathfinder Drones - The Pathfinder specific special drones. Grav-Inhibitor Drone - Probably the most useful/interest of the special Pathfinder drones. You need to buy a full drone unit to guard it, because enemies will try to focus it down, but it makes melee armies very sad if this thing is out in front of your army the turn they are trying to charge. Pulse-Accelerator Drone - extra range on rapid fire weapons is good, and extra range on carbines is never bad. Good synergy with a Cadre Fireblade, extending the range of the extra shot a bit. Honestly better with Fire Warriors/Strike Teams though. Recon Drone - Mostly a tougher burst-cannon carrier. Does some interesting things when mounted on a Devilfish, and the removing cover bonuses can be good, but for the most part it's there for ablative wounds to try and protect the other special drones. This is a good case for the Shield Drones actually - max out Pathfinder drone squads to try and keep their special drones alive. Other Drones Missile Drones - Can only accompany Broadsides, these are drones carrying Missile Pods. The "Missile Drones" from Hammerheads/tanks are actually Smart Missile Systems, something different. It doesn't help that the SMS is just two missile pods strapped together, but that's just modelling from GW fifteen years ago for you. The Missile Drone is actually cheaper than a missile pod on a Battlesuit, so it is a really good deal and can buff out your firepower very well. However, they are vulnerable so don't expect them to live long once your opponents figure that out. Shielded Missile Drones - Can only accompany the Riptide. A decent choice, but not necessary since any drone can jump in the way for the Riptide now if it happens to be nearby. Command Link Drone - Shadowsun Only. Lets her do her commander buff, but her commander buff isn't very good. Not really worth it, in my opinion.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:50
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Hormagaunts and Gargoyles are both bad. Devourer Gaunts in Trygon escorts all day yo.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:52
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Hey, while you're going over stuff like this what do you think of the missile turret fire warriors get?
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Jun 30, 2017 19:52
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chutche2 posted:Hey, while you're going over stuff like this what do you think of the missile turret fire warriors get? Seems kinda garbage now you can't redeploy it. Worthless on Breachers at least.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:58
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chutche2 posted:Hey, while you're going over stuff like this what do you think of the missile turret fire warriors get? Good if you have some regular pulse-rifle dudes sitting back doing their thing. Not good if you're rushing dudes up in a Devilfish. Not being able to redeploy it sucks, but I asked for literal years for Fire Warriors to be able to take some kind of missile pod/something better than more strength 5 shooting, so I have nothing bad to say about it really. Set up some firewarriors, give them a pulse Accelerator Drone, shoot at things within 36 inches. Could be theoretically useful in a mobile squad if there is like, a bunker or something you need to take. You run up, deploy inside and set up the drone, maybe?
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Jun 30, 2017 20:07
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Master Twig posted:Hormagaunts and Gargoyles are both bad. I agree thar termagants are by far the best of the three, after my primaris marines are painted adding 20 more devourer termagants to my horde. I prefer the aesteics of them running across the table in a giant wave of aliens over pouring out from under ground (although this is still awesome and terrifying)
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Jun 30, 2017 20:37
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Got a rules question: A hive crone has a minimum move of 10" and a maximum of 30". It doesn't fly high, isn't hard to hit, can charge, can be charged, etc. If it is in close combat at the start of its owner's turn, is it forced to leave combat thanks to its minimum move?
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Jun 30, 2017 20:40
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Does the <Fallen> faction keyword count as a legion? Can I take a <Fallen> Chaos Lord to chill with Cypher and friends?
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Jun 30, 2017 20:40
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professor_curly posted:Alright, here is a drone primer for you, with my opinions on them. I'm only covering the optional drones here, I think the Ghostkeel has to take its special drones and there isn't a reason not to. Awesome. Thank you. I don't have pathfinders or crisis suits yet. Just 40ish fire warriors, 3 stealth suits, 3 piranhas, a hammerhead, a devilfish, and two slightly messed up hulls with random bits that could probably make a hammerhead and a devilfish. I'll probably just grab an hq and leave it at that for now. I don't really have access to a game store and have some other armies to mess around with.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:48
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Safety Factor posted:Got a rules question: It says "If a model cannot make its minimum move, or is forced to move off the battlefield because of its minimum speed, it is destroyed and removed from the battlefield – the model has either stalled and crashed or been forced to abandon the battle." To me, that sounds like it has to fall back every time, regardless of the fact that it normally would get the 'option' to fallback or remain stationary. I think this is pretty stupid honestly, I don't know what they were thinking with the flyer rules. It's less of a problem, but I also don't understand the 90 degree turn stuff combined with the minimum move and not being able to fly off the map. You basically have to fly in a square, you can't really ever turn less than 90 degrees or you will start to be unable to stay in the center of the map anymore. It felt really stupid just flying my night scythe in a predictable square the whole game. If my opponent realized what was happening he could have just spread out over one of the sections and I wouldn't be able to fly there and I would have just crashed due to orks being below me.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:49
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I might start making day trips to NYC instead of trying to find ways to my local game stores. Our (Hudson Valley) public transportation sucks. What would be the cheapest and easiest to transport list that wouldn't be completely unfun and useless? I don't want to wander around all day on the bus/subway with my crusader case. I figure either Grey Knights or Deathwing? Just jam all the upgrades on them.
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Jun 30, 2017 21:01
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Hive Crones don't have the Supersonic pivot rule, at least, so you could theoretically fly right back around in a big circle. However, that would probably just get you counter-charged next turn, so if wanting to go all-in on wing slashes it's probably best to take a large move and return fire, then charge the turn after.
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Jun 30, 2017 21:03
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Crossposting from the oath thread. THis guy is a xenos bounty hunter, tagging along with my militia army for the chance to kill Space Marines. There are certain places where who are paying double for a primaris. He is going to be the leader of a bunch of counts-as Ogryns.  
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Jun 30, 2017 21:11
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Crotch post:The Sex Cannon posted:I also put sponsons on all my "ordnance" Leman Russes: Have fun charging my demolishers, Beer4thBeerGod's ork boyz.
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Jun 30, 2017 21:13
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