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Crow Jane posted:I'm a little concerned that our shithead Republican governor here in Maryland hasn't said anything yet. He's on record as despising Trump, but I worry. gently caress O'Malley for thinking he had a shot at the presidency and abandoning his post. Um Maryland governors are two-term limited
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Jun 30, 2017 23:09
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Fuschia tude posted:Um Maryland governors are two-term limited I knew that, I think, but I'm pretty dumb and it's hot as hell today. Can we all just say gently caress O'Malley in general, though?
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Jun 30, 2017 23:13
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TyroneGoldstein posted:Keep in mind we also got 8 years of St. Ronnie after Carter. And four more of HW. Yeah, I've mentioned it before, but Thrirdway centrism was a direct response to democrats only holding the WH for 4 of the previous 24 years And as much as it has killed the party down ballot, the dems have only lost the popular vote once since 1992 The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 30, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 23:15
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The Glumslinger posted:Yeah, I've mentioned it before, but Thrirdway centrism was a direct response to democrats only holding the WH for 4 of the previous 24 years Yep. Man did Lee Atwater do the complete job on Dukakis. Even as a kid I remember how badly he got clowned. I kind of play what-if sometimes if he had actually been elected. Then again, I wouldn't have wanted to see the late 90's with a republican Presidency because gently caress that.
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Jun 30, 2017 23:18
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Crow Jane posted:I knew that, I think, but I'm pretty dumb and it's hot as hell today. Can we all just say gently caress O'Malley in general, though? What did he do?
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Jun 30, 2017 23:46
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Meatball posted:If Trump goes down, the Republican party will still exist, controlling all three branches of the government, stopping that left swing from actually impacting anything.
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Jun 30, 2017 23:47
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Here's the president of a local 3%er group.
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Jun 30, 2017 23:52
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Archonex posted:What did he do? Ever see The Wire? Carcetti was based on him. He REALLY hosed over Baltimore with his police and drug policies as mayor. I'll admit the guy is pretty charismatic, however.
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Jun 30, 2017 23:54
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I just got caught up on https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/ What the gently caress. I cant even parse the amount of irony and hypocrisy anymore .
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Jun 30, 2017 23:59
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Meatball posted:If Trump goes down, the Republican party will still exist, controlling all three branches of the government, stopping that left swing from actually impacting anything. sure, but the GOP is hosed long term. they have proven repeatedly that the party is still fractured as gently caress since they cant even repeal obamacare or come up with solution that doesnt kill millions(sure they probaly dont care, but it doesnt look good if you deplete your base.) trumps everyday fuckups/attacks/rants/leaks arnt helping them at all either. if trumps gone, they are left with pence. who has zero charisma but will sign whatever they put infront of him, problem is they cant get party unity and trump will linger over them for years to come.
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Jul 1, 2017 00:03
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Phantasmal posted:(emphasis mine) Agreed. Which is why I think there are substantial risks to unifying a chunk of voters around a single healthcare solution with genuine feasibility concerns. I'm not opposed to SP or to people advocating for it-but doing so at the exclusion of other UHC solutions and targeting those who point out hurdles strikes me as unwise. Phantasmal posted:As for the AHCA backlash, it's not an example of Republicans failing to live up to their promises; it's a case where the promises they've made to their donor class becoming so extreme that actually delivering on them is poison to their electoral base. This is certainly a lesson that the Democratic Party should take to heart, but the takeaway has nothing to do with expectation management. I'm not sure I'm onboard with the idea that the GOP base A: Is opposed to what donors want or B: Doesn't want to see Medicaid slashed dramatically. Who was the last GOP establishment figure who lost a primary to someone who promised more government benefits? The impact of making "Repeal & Replace" a part of GOP catechism is still unknown, especially since the Replace portion had been left purposefully vague and unclear up until the last moment. Maj (and others) are inclined to point to the GOP's downballot success as proof that promising the moon works. My only point is that the decade's GOP success can be explained just as easily by pointing to electoral punishment for unfulfilled expectations and then naked fuckery. The poisonous influence of donors is certainly en vogue as a narrative right now, but I think it's still a stretch here. The Glumslinger posted:Yeah, I've mentioned it before, but Thrirdway centrism was a direct response to democrats only holding the WH for 4 of the previous 24 years Especially given what is decried as centrist nowadays would have been almost incomprehensibly left to the actual thirdwayers and the blue dogs. Speaking of: Collin Peterson can go ahead and get hosed with his sanctuary city vote.
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Jul 1, 2017 00:05
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Archonex posted:What did he do? He's a super-centrist who manages to tick off the boxes that make him disdained by both the left and right. (Loves cops and stringent law enforcement, but hates religion and right-wing demagoguery. Plus, he upped taxes for basically everyone to make Maryland schools and roads pretty much the best in the Mid-Atlantic.) But, he was a Democrat (and ex-mayor of Baltimore), so he got most of Charles, Prince George's, and Baltimore Counties' votes to hold his seat.
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Jul 1, 2017 00:06
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Pro clicks, both of these,
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Jul 1, 2017 00:12
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AlternateNu posted:He's a super-centrist who manages to tick off the boxes that make him disdained by both the left and right. (Loves cops and stringent law enforcement, but hates religion and right-wing demagoguery. Plus, he upped taxes for basically everyone to make Maryland schools and roads pretty much the best in the Mid-Atlantic.) But, he was a Democrat (and ex-mayor of Baltimore), so he got most of Charles, Prince George's, and Baltimore Counties' votes to hold his seat. Ah, that makes sense. I always had the impression he was fairly good given the way things could have gone. Plus, he helped advocate and close out a bunch of minority and LGBT protections. Especially getting people who are transgender the same work protections that everyone else has. Which Maryland is one of only like 13 states to have thus far country. Actually, that's part of why Hogan took a ton of poo poo when he took office, since he decided to not sign the bills out of a mix of cowardice and typical Republican douchebaggery. The taxes thing though. Man oh man. I have heard dozens of people bitch about them. Even though the state is probably far better off than other areas of the country thanks to them people loving loathed him for it.
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Jul 1, 2017 00:26
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lol on point af https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/880932982600716288
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Jul 1, 2017 00:38
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Paracaidas posted:If the CAP shot is regarding yesterday's“ Market Stability and Premium Reduction Act of 2017"... they're not wrong? It's proposed legislation to reduce exchange premiums that is based on successful (red)state programs. If you've got anything from Neera suggesting that this would fix healthcare and Dems needn't push for anything else ever, I'd be glad to hear it. In the meantime, I'm glad that Dems can blast Ryan/McConnell for tanking a bipartisan consensus to strengthen Obamacare because they'd rather slash children and elderly benefits to enable tax cuts. I suspect you might be too, if it weren't irrevocably tainted by Neera association. It actually has nothing to do with Neera - I've got nothing personally against her, other than that I think she is misguided, like a lot of other Democratic strategists. It has everything to do with the fact that the Center for American Progress is supposed to be a progressive think tank. You talk about political grandstanding as an empty exercise, but it really is a valuable thing that groups like the CAP should be engaging in, as a way of shifting the debate leftward and reminding the Democratic base of what is possible. This really is the optimal time for that sort of thing, after all: the Democrats are as "out of power" as they've been in living memory, and there's nothing to be lost in offering bold solutions that shift that energize the base. It would be one thing if a Democratic senator offered up the changes envisioned in the paper on the Senate floor, McConnell shot them down directly, and the Democrats were then able to use that to whack McConnell for tanking a bipartisan consensus. But that's not what's happening here. This proposal has as much chance as a bill for single payer at making it through McConnell's procedural hoops and landing on the Senate floor for debate. No, what's happening here is, a think tank that has a lot of pull among the Democratic leadership is signaling its position on health care, given the current political climate. And that position is to propose minor changes to Obamacare. It's an attempt to appear bipartisan, to cast itself as a voice of reason in the debate, a bulwark against extremists on the right and the left. They want to seem like the grownup in the room. The problem is, the voters don't reward think tanks or politicians for taking that stance anymore. They really haven't since before 2010, I'm afraid. The way to bring about meaningful change is to mobilize your party's base, and shift the public perception of what's possible. Calling for major improvements to health care - and they don't have to amount to single payer, necessarily - and to the American socioeconomic safety net, is how you do that, if you're a Democrat. That's not what this paper accomplishes. All it does is signal that the CAP is once again out of step with the Democratic voter base. quote:Regarding incrementalism, you again seem to believe that SP is the only nonincremental method of UHC. The next Dem president could sign a bill, by this point in his/her term, that modified the 80/20 rule to 95/5 and mandated coverage while expanding medicaid access to 200% of the poverty limit. This would functionally be UHC (similar to Germany) while having nothing to do with SP. Please show me the mewling centrist Dems who have offered to meet the HFC halfway when Dems hold a trifecta. No one has made that offer, because that's not exactly the type of offer that you signal several years in advance - particularly when it would be politically suicidal.  The Joe Liebermans and Blanche Lincolns of 2010 didn't announce years in advance that they were going to scuttle the public option when the Democrats took all three branches of government, because that would have required a degree of precognition that they of all people certainly did not have. That doesn't mean that there aren't a few suspects in both houses of Congress who are likely to be sticks in the mud if the Dems manage to retake the whole government over the next handful of cycles.
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Jul 1, 2017 00:44
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LtStorm posted:https://twitter.com/dougbrown8/status/880842900577206272
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Jul 1, 2017 00:45
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"The President Show" is so creepily accurate in its characterization of Trump's psyche. (go to around 1:25)
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Jul 1, 2017 00:48
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lmao
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Jul 1, 2017 00:58
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Trump Thread II: mean-spirited shitposts of a preening hack
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Jul 1, 2017 01:01
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Mississippi tells Trump to "go jump in the Gulf" on voter roll request. https://mississippitoday.org/2017/06/30/hosemann-on-trump-voter-id-request-go-jump-in-the-gulf/ Goddamn when Mississippi is telling you that. You've hit rock bottom.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:04
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Yeah go ahead and sue CNN, I'm sure that'll work out wonderfully for you.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:04
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Not trying to whitewash Oregon's horrible history regarding race or how lovely this move is. But the Multnomah county Republican party has very little influence on local politics. That whole "I don't care as long as it triggers demonrats" thing is pretty much all they have. An attention seeking shitbird in the wealthiest suburb of Portland essentially got ran out of town (not according to him obvs) http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/03/2...ow-deplorables/
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Jul 1, 2017 01:11
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Paracaidas posted:Agreed. Which is why I think there are substantial risks to unifying a chunk of voters around a single healthcare solution with genuine feasibility concerns. I'm not opposed to SP or to people advocating for it-but doing so at the exclusion of other UHC solutions and targeting those who point out hurdles strikes me as unwise. You're overestimating these risks because you're slipping into the always tempting assumption that the voting public thinks the way you think. The overwhelming majority of voters will never unify around Single Payer because they neither know nor care to learn what it is. They aren't political wonks, and they have more important things to do with their time. What is important to them is the material benefits they get out of the country's health care system, in particular feeling secure in accessing the system without risking financial ruin, and having clear rules and expectations in how it works without the need to navigate a Byzantine labyrinth any time they wish to access it. Single-payer advocates, for whatever fault they may have in the individual or the aggregate, tend to at least have a good handle when it comes to understanding these motivations, and their presence is broadly speaking a good one because it creates a demand that any credible single-payer alternative must meet those standards. quote:I'm not sure I'm onboard with the idea that the GOP base A: Is opposed to what donors want or B: Doesn't want to see Medicaid slashed dramatically. Who was the last GOP establishment figure who lost a primary to someone who promised more government benefits? As always, it depends on what you mean "base," but let's break it down this way. This Quinnipiac poll shows a broad rejection of the AHCA bill with only 21% of voters approving. It's true that 48% of of Republicans in the survey approved with only 16% disapproving (question 60), but that's a very weak degree of support. For comparison 73% of Republicans approve of Donald Trump's handling of healthcare compared to only 21% disapproval (question 37), and 74% to 22% support building a Mexican border-wall (question 69). The Republican base as a whole might not yet be revolting against the AHCA, but there's certainly a remarkable level of uncertainty towards it compared to the otherwise steady level of support for the rest of Republican platform. The catch here is that while the GOP base does appear to love slashing entitlements, they don't think of anything that they receive as an entitlement. The potential passage of the AHCA risks exposing this contradiction in a way that will put the GOP voting public in direct opposition with the GOP donor class. Past Republican administrations certainly loved their tax cuts, but they were typically much less brazen in their approach, suggesting they either no longer fear the risk of alienating large portions of their base or they fear alienating something they consider more important than their base.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:14
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Jaxyon posted:Oregon was basically started as a home for white supremacy right? No. The original Oregon constitution, from 1859, prohibited slavery, and also prohibited any African-American people from living there. My own guess is that before the Civil War, there was fears that slavery could be started by people bringing in "free blacks who just happen to have agreed to be our indentured servants", and then normalizing it into a slave state. Oregonians themselves love to trip over themselves to prove how woke they are about Oregon's racist history. Oregon's racist history is the same as the United States' racist history. What bothers me about this is that it helps normalize states that have outright racist policies. A lot of things that Oregon has done, like all-mail elections and Cannabis legalization, have been very good, and the idea that we should try to outdo each other by acknowledging that we are the real racists just gives cover to people like Jeff Sessions. Oregon is better than Alabama. We need to acknowledge that. One reason why there is more extremism in right-wing politics in a place like Oregon is that Republicans can't participate in mainstream politics anymore, so people with conservative opinions get more...compacted. The person who might become an office holder in an Eastern state like Alabama or Ohio becomes an extremist in Oregon. I mean, that is the simple version. But its a lot less simplistic than "Oregon was founded as a right supremacist haven"
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Jul 1, 2017 01:25
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glowing-fish posted:No. Counterpoint 
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Jul 1, 2017 01:27
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glowing-fish posted:No. Yeah but is Oregon part of the East Coast?
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Jul 1, 2017 01:28
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Glazier posted:Counterpoint I thought that was just made up for Ghost World!
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Jul 1, 2017 01:30
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Anything east of the Cascades in Oregon is a deep red hell scape.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:31
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Glazier posted:Counterpoint Holy poo poo that place existed! 
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Jul 1, 2017 01:31
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Paracaidas posted:You use the GOP on Obamacare as an example. I'd note that they gained power in a 2010 wave marked by progressive apathy (that punished both the establishment and populist wings of the party), and used the resulting power to fortify their holdings through antidemocratic measures that may have handed them the White House... so both the front and the back end of your example show the perils of unifying around undeliverable promises. The GOP holds near-absolute power in Washington, and yet of the 40 bills signed by Trump, the most impactful are straight nullifications of Obama-era orders/rules/legislation. This would likely look different if the Burn It Down faction hadn't run everyone who understood legislation out of the party-for which I'm thankful, as it would have been immensely challenging for a future administration to unwind something like Camp's tax reform. Unless you have the power to Jedi mindmeld millions of people into voting no matter what you do, then you need to excite them by doing what voters want in office, and not what corporations want followed by eight years of whining that voters just owe you the same enthusiasm they used to have before you sold them out to insurance companies. Turns out all the donor money in the world isn't enough to brainwash people into forgetting what you did to get it. When you get elected on promises of affordable health care, the moral and practical and fiscally sensible and 💫🌟politically pragmatic💫🌠 thing to do is to deliver it. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Jul 1, 2017 |
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Jul 1, 2017 01:34
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I feel like there's sort of a Spartacus thing going on with all these states defying Trump on the voter information now that the defiance-ball is rolling. It's the same as the healthcare bill, everyone waits for the point where they can say "oh yeah well I never liked that anyway!"
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Jul 1, 2017 01:34
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Yeah but is Oregon part of the East Coast? No. Like, I honestly have had to learn so much about the United States just in the past few years, because what I thought was normal growing up in Oregon turned out not to be normal for the Eastern United States. When I was growing up, rich and college educated people were democrats and liberals. Republicans were poor rural people. When I went to college in Vermont in 1998, I was amazed to meet SUBURBAN REPUBLICANS. Like, in my mind "Suburban Republican" was a contradiction in terms. I also was amazed when my upper middle-class white roommate read a webpage making fun of "Ebonics", because all the upper middle-class white people I had grown up with were busy trying to find the newest underground hip-hop group. I didn't know there were middle class white people who didn't listen to hip-hop, who made fun of it. This was honestly a revelation to me. One of the things that is still hard for me to understand is the mindset of people in wealthy suburbs, who are college educated, who are conservative and were raised in a church. I never knew people like that growing up, I am not even familiar with that milieu. I mean, you can all make fun of me, and I know you will, but honestly, I still have to remember that the world I grew up in was not the way most of the United States works.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:37
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mik posted:I feel like there's sort of a Spartacus thing going on with all these states defying Trump on the voter information now that the defiance-ball is rolling. It's the same as the healthcare bill, everyone waits for the point where they can say "oh yeah well I never liked that anyway!" Keep in mind though this request by that shitbird Kobach basically has no teeth. This one is easy, it's a layup. Every last State in the Union can tell them to go get hosed and there's basically nothing that the WH could seemingly do except...take them to court, maybe? I dunno. Point is, this one is easy for now.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:39
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Mustached Demon posted:Anything east of the Cascades in Oregon is a deep red hell scape. Very deep red, but also mostly unpopulated. All of Eastern Oregon together accounted for about 15% of Trump's vote in Oregon, about as much as Multnomah County. Much like the US as a whole, Trump's support in Oregon (such as it was), came from exurban areas. Clackamas, Marion and Linn County together made up close to half of it, IIRC.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:40
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Just watched Joe and Mika from this morning. I like how they sat on 2 HUGE stories 1) That someone running for president was, according to someone working on their campaign, mentally unhinged and unstable and 2) The president is blackmailing journalists, until they could use them to settle a Twitter war. I wonder why they thought the public didn't need to know those things before that...
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Jul 1, 2017 01:42
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Glazier posted:Counterpoint Oregon: Racist postcard from 50+ years ago, thus all those twee Portlandia types are the REAL RACISTS. Alabama: Attorney General wants to use federal governments to wage war of intimidation against Spanish speakers, start prisons for non-violent soft drug offenders, and institute nationwide voter suppression, but can we really judge?
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Jul 1, 2017 01:43
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mcmagic posted:Just watched Joe and Mika from this morning. I like how they sat on 2 HUGE stories 1) That someone running for president was, according to someone working on their campaign, mentally unhinged and unstable and 2) The president is blackmailing journalists, until they could use them to settle a Twitter war. I wonder why they thought the public didn't need to know those things before that... They were on Trump's side. They just found out that Trump is only on his own side.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:45
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