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Alright, the AZ is a beast, finally broke out of 15 down to 12 on an uninterrupted win streak when I finally gave up on using anything but the AZ. Warspites sometimes hit hard, but they're almost always giant dmg pinatas from what I've seen.
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Jul 2, 2017 05:44
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Finally turning this poo poo around... could have done better probably, but almost 2k base XP match on a 4x first win is pretty nice (the enemy had an Atago that got High Caliber, Kraken, Arsonist, Witherer, and Confederate... doubt he was too happy... of course in the next game I get detonated right at the start in a Hipper by a Scharnhorst firing HE):
Evil_Greven fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 06:01
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JacksLibido posted:Ok so do ranked players just get loving awful at night or something? That is a matter of perspective really.  My teams have been delightful. I also made it from rank 15.1 to rank 12.1 in one win streak. Soup Inspector posted:Sorry for being so late, Rorac, but here are my two replays: Ok so, I was able to watch them. First replay: your biggest mistake was pushing out in front of the allied Neptune like that. I would've slowed down to the edge of his smoke and activated my own, providing another set of concealment for both of you to fire from. The second mistake was, after you killed the Minotaur (and honestly I consider going there to be a mistake from my perspective, but you did get a kill on a higher tier cruiser, so I'll take it as a calculated risk), was attempting to run away from the enemy Des Moines firing at you at the end. Your side armor is sufficient to resist it with mild angling, and you were far enough away that you could've dropped out of sight. You should've ceased fire, slowed down and stayed at a sharp angle (IMO, dead east would've been ideal) which would've made it very hard for either the cruiser or the BB firing at you to do heavy damage. Similarly, when you were under attack from the Minotaur, since you had committed to going that way, staying pointed toward it and the BB would've negated the citadel hits you took. Once the BB had fired, then turning would've been safe. Also, this has nothing to do with you, but drat. I have seen corn that wasn't creamed as hard as that Ibuki at the start. Second replay: Only 2 things. First, and I noticed this from the first replay, you seem to have a habit of firing torpedoes at things outside of their max range. This can be useful sometimes (if an enemy is approaching through a narrow channel for example), but in these cases I wouldn't have used them, as the odds of getting a hit were very unlikely. I prefer to save the torpedoes for the above circumstance, or when the opponent is at closer ranges. The other thing, and it is basically the same as the previous one: turning around when under fire by the enemy. It's easy to get panicked under that kind of fire (and the fires started on your deck), but most of that damage is immaterial since you can repair much of it back. That ship at the end was the only one firing at you, so you only have to angle vs him. Keep a shallow angle and most of his shots would bounce or miss. In addition, due to his direction of travel, angling right after you had dumped torpedoes would've gotten you into cover even faster. Also unless you are likely to die from it, don't bother using damage control on fewer than 3 fires in the Edinburgh/Neptune/Minotaur. Using the damage control on the first fire was a bit wasteful. Basically, I don't see any real problems with your usage of the ship offensively; but you need to work on defensive fighting, and perhaps situational awareness a little bit. Also, and this is purely hindsight, but when you fired both sets of torpedoes, something you could've done was fire one spread to the left and one spread to the right of the island. That way he would've had to deal with them no matter which way he turned. Rorac fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 06:02
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After watching the replays as well to check they were working properly, your initial diagnosis of being too aggressive seems on the money - there's one bit near the middle of the first replay where I end up merrily charging out into the jaws of the enemy team with no support whatsoever. Please let me know if the replays don't work properly, since when I was watching the replays they seemed a bit laggy. Thanks for the replay, by the way. I'll check it out when I can!
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Ranked is helping me be a better DD player. Good DD plays can swing games. Bad DD plays get you spotted and focused by the entire enemy team. I'm getting better at it, and at selecting my approaches to capture zones, but it can be rough when you're trying to scout a cap that's in open ocean and whoops that's the one the entire enemy team picked, surprise.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:23
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New ranked cancer, DD's who go off to "scout", which just means they're going to cap for the XP then die.
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Jul 2, 2017 06:44
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JacksLibido posted:New ranked cancer, DD's who go off to "scout", which just means they're going to cap for the XP then die. The problem is you kind of have to get a cap right at the start or you are severely disadvantaged if the other team do it. I normally try to cap without using smoke and if it gets contested try to out spot the other DD for my team to kill. This, however, works only if your team is actually supporting you and not hiding behind islands or making a run for the map border. Rolling blobs of ships with DDs in front scouting and smoking with their support just behind them seem to win every time for some reason, a fact most weekend players seem to struggle to understand.. 
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Jul 2, 2017 10:07
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Victor Surge posted:I've been playing the shinonome and it's working out well for contesting caps. It outspots the Farragut, Anshan, and Gaede and has the same detection as the fubuki and with a good 6 gun high velocity alpha and it can completely bully the Fubuki and doesn't do too badly against the others. Shinonome is a great ship for it, its gun power is surprisingly gnarly, i ended a brawl with a leander that i fell into by just planting 10 citadels through his side armor at close range. Having the torp reload is really great to clear out enemy smokes repeatedly given how much smoke is around in ranked at the moment.
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Jul 2, 2017 10:40
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rex rabidorum vires posted:With the 9. 2km torps you can stealth torp for days Which is incidently how long the torps take to reach their target. I think they are literally the slowest non-CV torps in the game? 100% WR in ranked at R22 so far. One match  I spent too long trying to get 5 stars in the Operation before being told I only needed 4 for the captain. My take away from 5 games is that if anyone brings a T5 CV into them, concede straight away. Not worth the 15mins. Also vs bots, Cleveland is so much better than Molotov or La Gasoline its not even funny. kaesarsosei fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 11:12
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Polyakov posted:Shinonome is a great ship for it, its gun power is surprisingly gnarly, i ended a brawl with a leander that i fell into by just planting 10 citadels through his side armor at close range. Having the torp reload is really great to clear out enemy smokes repeatedly given how much smoke is around in ranked at the moment. Not sure if it's an EU thing, the weekend or just level 16 game play but I have just played five games of ranked and the first four had no DDs at all and the fifth game there was one and it was me in my Shinonome. I listened to Flamu when he said this series would be smoke central but it's certainly not that at the moment.
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Jul 2, 2017 13:07
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Not that I think Flamu is always right, but he did qualify it and say he was talking about the two top leagues, ie 10-6 and 5-1, and that everything below that would be a mess of weird ships and mixed tactics
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Jul 2, 2017 13:27
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JacksLibido posted:New ranked cancer, DD's who go off to "scout", which just means they're going to cap for the XP then die. It is worth it to push that cap early, though, especially when most teams stick together. Either you learn that the cap is completely empty and the enemy team is going elsewhere, or you have a great chance to lay down a torp salvo that can potentially swing the game. Even better if the enemy DD sees you, smokes up, blinds himself and his own team, then eats your torpedoes. Low tier ranked is great. The Farragut is a goddamn monster in ranked  . I am kind of curious how the Gaede would play out, since it has longer range torpedoes and hydro. Seems like it would be good for bullying other DDs, but that American smoke is just too good.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:30
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Burt posted:Not sure if it's an EU thing, the weekend or just level 16 game play but I have just played five games of ranked and the first four had no DDs at all and the fifth game there was one and it was me in my Shinonome. Ive only played 5 matches of ranked so far on EU but I've always been up against a US DD and at least one RN CL so far. Though i have only been playing my shinonome so i presume that skews it somewhat, but 5 matches isnt the largest sample size in the world.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:36
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JacksLibido posted:New ranked cancer, DD's who go off to "scout", which just means they're going to cap for the XP then die. Its required. The caps have to be contested right at the start or your team is left in some strange and unpleasant place where you have to make all the high risk plays to win. It is the team's job to support the DD and force the enemy DD out of cap if both sides go for the same one.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:42
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kaesarsosei posted:Which is incidently how long the torps take to reach their target. I think they are literally the slowest non-CV torps in the game? I would not doubt it. They also tickle the enemy more than wreck them. But, I find them to be effective enough.
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Jul 2, 2017 15:35
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rex rabidorum vires posted:I would not doubt it. They also tickle the enemy more than wreck them. But, I find them to be effective enough. The Sims long range torps are effective against enemy DDs and big ships if you can drop all 8 on them in one salvo, but otherwise aren't great for damage. However, they are useful for shooting at people and watching them panic because they don't know its torps from Sims. Ran into a duo sometime ago using a Sims to fire torps into a group of ships, and then his buddy in a IJN would have a spread of torps right behind his. So people would be turning to dodge those piddly torps and run straight into good ones.
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Jul 2, 2017 15:46
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:It is worth it to push that cap early, though, especially when most teams stick together. Either you learn that the cap is completely empty and the enemy team is going elsewhere, or you have a great chance to lay down a torp salvo that can potentially swing the game. Even better if the enemy DD sees you, smokes up, blinds himself and his own team, then eats your torpedoes. Low tier ranked is great. The problem is when that lone "scouting" DD is a retard that doesn't know how to disengage when they run into the entire red team and get spotted by their DD. Otherwise yeah, putting pressure on all the caps is a good idea when you have the (non-retarded) DDs to spare.
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Jul 2, 2017 16:29
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El Disco posted:The problem is when that lone "scouting" DD is a retard that doesn't know how to disengage when they run into the entire red team and get spotted by their DD. They really shouldn't even get spotted. If they are going to contest a cap alone and the enemy team picks that cap, you can see the BBs well before you get into detection range of another DD. The disengage should happen long before you get to the cap circle. This issue is too many heroes who think they can contest safely and end up getting rear end hosed because they don't actually have the predictive and mechanical dodging skills to pull it off. To be fair if you are a top level DD player and have excellent sense of awareness, a lone DD slowing an enemy focused cap at the beginning is huge. But 90% of players simply don't have the ability to execute that kind of play properly and end up dead or severely damaged to the point where they are a non factor.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:04
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Rorac posted:Ok so, I was able to watch them. Thank you for the honest feedback, I really appreciate it. My responses might be a bit vague since it's been a while and I'm feeling too lazy to go rewatch the replays. 100% agreed on the Minotaur thing. I'd love to have claimed that it was a calculated risk but if I'm being honest I was just being my usual aggressive self and trying to nail other ships while they were distracted. Unfortunately for me they were not, in fact, distracted. As for the friendly Neptune, in hindsight that would've definitely been the smarter choice. When it comes to angling, I tend to assume that I won't be able to seriously mitigate any damage in RN cruisers so I don't rely on it too much. If it works then it's just gravy, but otherwise I need to rely on not getting hit. I would've felt very exposed trying to slow down right in the open. My usual disengagement tactic is to cease fire and get hard cover between myself and whoever's shooting at me ASAP, since in my experience anything less tends to result in everyone and their grandma falling over themselves to kill me. I think in all likelihood at that stage of the match I was panicking or resigned to getting deleted, so I was probably just trying to squeeze out as much damage as possible. To address the torpedo firing: if you're talking about the time I fired them at the smoke, if memory serves I was just eyeballing the range (since for obvious reasons you don't really get an idea of how far away a smoke cloud is). I've got a bad habit of opportunistically firing torpedoes whenever I can in an attempt to surprise my opponents, force them to turn, or as a last ditch attack. Admittedly I do tend to panic whenever I come under lots of fire, particularly since it usually results in eating at least one or two citadels (if not getting outright deleted). I'm honestly surprised I handle the ship okay offensively. Do you have any tips for working the ship defensively? I figure situational awareness can be summed up as "look at the mini-map more than every two minutes or so you berk". On a different topic, I think I might get the Sims after all, particularly since the Blyskawica doesn't seem like it'll be available any time soon. Any advice for using it (or more importantly learning how to use it) for someone who mains cruisers? What sort of build works best? Soup Inspector fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 17:06
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Burt posted:The problem is you kind of have to get a cap right at the start or you are severely disadvantaged if the other team do it. I meant fucks off to the other cap by themselves to "scout", leaving the blob smaller and with less smoke. MikeC posted:They really shouldn't even get spotted. If they are going to contest a cap alone and the enemy team picks that cap, you can see the BBs well before you get into detection range of another DD. The disengage should happen long before you get to the cap circle. I have to disagree here, generally with the smaller teams the loss of a single dd and it's smoke in the early stages of the fight leaves the whole team disadvantaged. Sometimes you can pull through it but it's super tough, and 99% of the time the "scouting" dd just gets nuked. I don't see how that second cap does much honestly. If both teams go to one cap then just rotate the fight in the second caps direction so you can snag it, if each team goes to different caps then you're going to fight in he middle anyways. I've yet to see the "scout and die" plan do anything but wreck your own team. -edit- No, this is NEVER a good idea. Every match boils down to the main fight, and not having smoke because your DD is off loving around in the other point means death. Stay together, smoke the bb's. In other news, I love downranking because of assholes doing this. W JacksLibido fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 17:08
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JacksLibido posted:I meant fucks off to the other cap by themselves to "scout", leaving the blob smaller and with less smoke. Its a legitimate play if they are good enough not to get killed and they actually disrupt the cap. Blobbing is actually not that good for many ship types.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:12
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:The Farragut is a goddamn monster in ranked It gets outspotted by other DDs, so unless you have only 1v1s vs DDs you will likely get focused down by the enemy team while invisible DDs spot you. Or at least that is what'd happened to most enemy Gades I have seen.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:20
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CitizenKain posted:Also gently caress the Colorado, what a worthless ship. Not once have I had a match in that ship that went well. The secret to Coloradoing is to put every single range upgrade onto it and a Zen-like acceptance that the matchmaker will go out of its way to put its boot up your rear end.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:34
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Is it just me or are the ranked rewards really bad this season? Sure getting to rank 1 is good, but the stuff from 2-11 is basically a bunch of xp camos, and like $2 worth of doubloons. They could have at least thrown in 5x of the new Hydra/Wyvern etc signals here and there to spice it up a bit. I dont really have the time to play a zillion games, but I don't really see any reason to push past rank 12.
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Jul 2, 2017 17:42
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It's just all poo poo. 0:7 today so far in games... teams run the gently caress away from points chasing the map boarder, carriers, and DDs. 5 of those the matchmaker has given the other team +1 DD, which ain't helping poo poo.
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Jul 2, 2017 18:09
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Apparently using islands as cover so I can safely protect a cap and getting 100k+ damage and high caliber is "hiding" and "farming damage"
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Jul 2, 2017 18:38
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Ice Fist posted:Apparently using islands as cover so I can safely protect a cap and getting 100k+ damage and high caliber is "hiding" and "farming damage" "Farming damage" is the weirdest insult. It's how you win the game! I think I've seen maybe a couple people that could actually legitimately be accused of it because they're just basting HE at battleships instead of trying to finish off low health destroyers. I guess its a way to excuse your own poor damage by saying you're doing intangible "teamwork" things. I thought the one task in the Shinonome campaign where you have to be the first to spot a carrier as a DD would be super easy. It's actually the hardest of the tasks I've tried yet. No one plays carriers and when they do, they get spotted by planes first!
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Jul 2, 2017 19:00
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Trillhouse posted:"Farming damage" is the weirdest insult. It's how you win the game! As an addendum to my original post I ended up getting a message from a guy on the enemy team complimenting me for holding him to his lowest xp+damage game yet. I originally thought it was the jackwad on my team who was yelling at me, but nope I actually got complimented. Feels good I guess.
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Jul 2, 2017 19:03
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Soup Inspector posted:To address the torpedo firing: if you're talking about the time I fired them at the smoke, if memory serves I was just eyeballing the range (since for obvious reasons you don't really get an idea of how far away a smoke cloud is). I've got a bad habit of opportunistically firing torpedoes whenever I can in an attempt to surprise my opponents, force them to turn, or as a last ditch attack. Admittedly I do tend to panic whenever I come under lots of fire, particularly since it usually results in eating at least one or two citadels (if not getting outright deleted). The torpedoes I were referring to was the ones fired at the the battleship at the end of the second replay, you fired all 4 spreads to the right of the island. Firing one or two to the left of the island may have caught him, and put him into a very hard position no matter where he went. Practical (or 'crunchy', if you want game mechanics info) defensive fighting in the RN cruisers comes down to angles: what is your angle vs incoming fire, and the correct (or at least, what I find to be workable solutions) 100% depends on that angle. If you're side on and at long range (long = at your max range or longer), slowing and turning away (or toward) is usually correct. If you're nose/tail on, wiggle a little bit and little should hit you. If you're at medium range (10-16km), then slowing and using smoke while turning usually works out best, particularly if you just got spotted, since likely you'll have enough time to stop and smoke up before they can bring their guns to bear, although if they were pointing in your direction, you might have a bad day, which is why I suggest turning when you do so. At short range(10km and below) a lot of it is whoever manages to be quicker on the draw. Generally if you deliberately expose yourself to somebody like that, you should be aware that they are there before you do so, or it's a situation where something like a DD comes barreling around a corner and surprise, it's an RN cruiser, activate brown alert. In general though, at short, and particularly 'melee' range (5km or below) my general instinct is to just charge right in and either drop torpedoes if they don't have any, or to fake a drop and get them to drop early in retaliation, dodge theirs and then real drop. In a less 'crunchy' way of looking at it, RN defensive fighting is risk assessment and playing what may happen vs what will happen. If I have a Minotaur on one side, but turning into him means being side on to a battleship, i WILL turn into the minotaur. The BB MAY kill me in one salvo, but the Minotaur WILL kill me in 15 seconds. Naturally though, as you put more ships into the equation, the harder it becomes (and after more than 3, nigh impossible unless they're all side by side). In general I will give an even fight to just about anything if I know it's alone or otherwise hasn't any real backup. Against the BB at the end of the second replay, you should've charged in. I guess one way to look at it is that you have the aggression, you just need confidence to properly apply that aggression, without going too far in the opposite way and getting overconfident. They really do require a lot of precision, and some discipline to use properly. Succeed, and you too can get a 58% win rate in the Emerald. Also: situational awareness. You should be looking at the map every 10-15 seconds really, and try to keep one eye on it at all times if possible. I try to stay aware of anything popping up around me, and a lot of times I'm trying to look both at where I'm aiming while also focusion on the map and seeing how things develop. But also stop firing and take a look around now and then. You do it occasionally, and that's great, but even when firing on a target, look around. You did well on fighting the minotaur, but you seemed to be totally surprised by the battleship in the 2nd replay even though his marker was also very clearly visible when you looked over to engage the DD. The ideal is to not be surprised by anything that doesn't just come crashing around a corner like a jackass. As for the Sims, lol I dunno. I don't have one.
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Jul 2, 2017 20:07
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:The secret to Coloradoing is to put every single range upgrade onto it and a Zen-like acceptance that the matchmaker will go out of its way to put its boot up your rear end. I think I'll just skip it. I've been hanging onto a lot of free xp and I've got enough bypass the thing entirely. Playing a stock Fletcher is rough, really want to do well in it, but having many games being rear end deep in Gearings is painful.
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Jul 2, 2017 21:56
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CitizenKain posted:Detonation, still not a fun or good mechanic. This is what I hate about the American BB tree--the Colorado, and to some extent earlier ships, are essentially brawlers. In fact, prior to the release of the German BBs they were the brawler battleship line in the game. Of course the part I hate is that after Colorado, none of the American battleships should ever be played like brawlers. I guess I'm saying this to say that, as someone who started on the German tree, until I figured this out about the American battleships I too though they were terrible. After I figured it out though, Colorado was one of my best ships.
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Jul 2, 2017 22:14
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Speaking of US battleships, having just unlocked the Montana I find it to be a decent brawler. It has more belt armor than the Iowa allowing to use the rear guns more often and since it has 2 turrets at the rear it does nasty things to other ships. It's no Kurfust but it seems noticeably better than Iowa and North Carolina. The recent citadel lowering probably helps a lot.
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Jul 2, 2017 22:33
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CitizenKain posted:The Sims long range torps are effective against enemy DDs and big ships if you can drop all 8 on them in one salvo, but otherwise aren't great for damage. However, they are useful for shooting at people and watching them panic because they don't know its torps from Sims. The Sims has got to be my favorite DD. Am I crazy to run the short ranged torpedoes? I only really use the torps to ambush people and I wanted speed and damage for that. Otherwise, I'm just all about guns and smoke.
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Jul 2, 2017 23:01
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I think I just won "Worst DM in the world" award by getting nuked from 30k hp to dead by Enterprise dive bombers. (Defensive AA was down from fending off an attack on a GK. That'll show me for trying to help the team!!)
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Jul 2, 2017 23:17
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Minenfeld! posted:The Sims has got to be my favorite DD. Am I crazy to run the short ranged torpedoes? I only really use the torps to ambush people and I wanted speed and damage for that. Otherwise, I'm just all about guns and smoke. No. I don't think there is anything wrong with using them. If you want to contest a camp or ambush someone, they are great for it.
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Jul 2, 2017 23:18
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Krogort posted:Speaking of US battleships, having just unlocked the Montana I find it to be a decent brawler. Montana is very much my poo poo. It's really nice to be able to play it like a super heavy cruiser now and it's a lot tankier than people give it credit for. You can still eat cits but now it's a lot less likely to eat a Dev Strike trying to extract. It's fun too to kinda get ignored because people think "lolMontana" while you take 20-30k chunks off broadside Kurfursts and outmaneuver Yamatos.
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Jul 2, 2017 23:38
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Well, climbing up all the way from rank 23 (didn't play last season) was mildly annoying but I finally got to rank 10 after 34 battles (68% win rate  ). Cleveland supremacy, I'm really bad in the Shinonome and the Ryujo is too boring to play.CitizenKain posted:I think I'll just skip it. I've been hanging onto a lot of free xp and I've got enough bypass the thing entirely. The Colorado is not a bad ship  Then again, the NC is my favorite BB in the entire game so there is that. Nothing wrong with wanting in on that poo poo.On the other hand, if you spend your free XP on getting the upgraded torps on the Fletcher instead you now have one of the strongest DD's in the game, both tier for tier and in absolute terms. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 00:16
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This match was frustrating as hell... Saipan decided I needed to die and kept torping me the entire match save maybe one or two waves. It's funny given the tiers vs scoring:
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Jul 3, 2017 00:23
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Minenfeld! posted:The Sims has got to be my favorite DD. Am I crazy to run the short ranged torpedoes? I only really use the torps to ambush people and I wanted speed and damage for that. Otherwise, I'm just all about guns and smoke. The long-range torpedoes are better for ranked because you can use them to flush out people hiding in smoke. The short range torps are fine though.
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Jul 3, 2017 00:28
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When you have one of those screamingly toxic ranked teams that won't stop trying to micro you with lovely advice, it feels really good to announce, "I'm going AFK", and then let you ship sail off while you sit there and watch chat. People lose their loving minds.
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Jul 3, 2017 01:55
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:When you have one of those screamingly toxic ranked teams that won't stop trying to micro you with lovely advice, it feels really good to announce, "I'm going AFK", and then let you ship sail off while you sit there and watch chat. People lose their loving minds. Grats you are just as much of a man child as everyone else in that game.
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Jul 3, 2017 02:34
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