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idonotlikepeas posted:...that is an excellent question. Want to bet that someone has done some fanart of him wearing the standard inquisitor uniform? witchcore ricepunk posted:I'm confused. Different department from Dlanor.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:50
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It's funny you guys are talking about what a dick Van Dine was known to be, because back in the heydey when we had months to speculate over that portrait, some people managed to suss out it was "Wizard-Hunting Wright" - so naturally, everyone expected him to be the biggest dick we'd seen so far in the series. His actual character as demonstrated in this updated ended up being, uh, a bit of a surprise! That being said, Will is definitely my second favorite character, after the culprit (who has no competition). Looking forward to the rest!
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Jul 4, 2017 18:02
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Welp it's been said in red that servants can't be the culprit. Guess a witch really did do it!
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Jul 4, 2017 18:11
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How can he get a kick in the pance if he's not wearing any? It's funny how much Philo Vance has largely been forgotten relative to Holmes, who came before, or Poirot, who came after. Van Dine's biography is pretty hilarious, to be honest. A literally critic in rehab for doing too much cocaine, started reading detective novels for a lark and decided "gently caress these guys, these books are easy to write" so just to prove it he wrote one and it sold crazy amounts. Now quite wealthy, Van Dine decided that he quite liked being wealthy and kept writing them through the depression (to diminishing returns, it must be said) even while he bemoaned the fact that no one would ever take him seriously as an art critic ever again. In other words, he's about as loveless as you get. I guess he's chilled since going to Mystery Novel Valhalla.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:12
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On a scale of 1 to 10 how hosed up would he feel about being turned into a VN bishounen?Raelle posted:It's funny you guys are talking about what a dick Van Dine was known to be, because back in the heydey when we had months to speculate over that portrait, some people managed to suss out it was "Wizard-Hunting Wright" - so naturally, everyone expected him to be the biggest dick we'd seen so far in the series. Wait, how?
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Jul 4, 2017 18:32
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I see Witchchat must have had a jolly good laugh when I said Wizard-Hunting Wright wasn't going to show up due to the deliberate flouting of Van Dine's rules. Will is a lot more chill than I would have expected the avatar of Van Dine's rules to be. It's interesting how probably-dead-Erika's profile both mentions the Explosion explicitly and also implies Auau is the biggest cause of people being assholes aside from Kinzo.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:47
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witchcore ricepunk posted:On a scale of 1 to 10 how hosed up would he feel about being turned into a VN bishounen? Wizard-Hunting Wright was mentioned in a tip an episode or two ago and then there's the anchor necklace on the portrait which made people think about ships and SS Van Dine.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:49
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That's an impressive leap. witchcore ricepunk posted:On a scale of 1 to 10 how hosed up would he feel about being turned into a VN bishounen? Who wouldn't want their legacy to be being turned into a hottie in a video game? Really Knox got short shrift.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:52
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havenwaters posted:Wizard-Hunting Wright was mentioned in a tip an episode or two ago and then there's the anchor necklace on the portrait which made people think about ships and SS Van Dine.  are you loving kidding me? Wow, I totally didn't pick up on that.Cyouni posted:It's interesting how probably-dead-Erika's profile both mentions the Explosion explicitly and also implies Auau is the biggest cause of people being assholes aside from Kinzo. And how did I miss the bit about the explosion??? I need more coffee. So that answers Beatrice's riddle in E4 about how she killed Battler while he was the only living human on the island, right? If the explosion is a constant across games, that explains how no one except Eva could know what really transpired on the island: there was no crime scene left. And if it's true that Yama "killed Battler" in the active sense in E4, then they must have triggered the explosion. And it must have had a delayed reaction. witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 18:56
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CottonWolf posted:Who wouldn't want their legacy to be being turned into a hottie in a video game? Really Knox got short shrift. Reminder: Dlanor isn't Knox, she's his daughter. He COULD have been hot 
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Jul 4, 2017 18:56
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CottonWolf posted:That's an impressive leap. Take that back, Dlanor's great. Anyways I'm assuming portrait lady is our culprit, or failing that the Erika to Will's Dlanor.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:59
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A few months back I looked up Van Dine's rules, and the only one that was really any help was 15. But even that is suspect because, wellVan Dine posted:2. No willful tricks or deceptions may be played on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself. Umineko posted:ahahaha.wav Looking forward to not-young-Kinzo being incredibly wrong.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:00
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Wait, there's an explosion? How did I miss that?
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Jul 4, 2017 19:06
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CottonWolf posted:Who wouldn't want their legacy to be being turned into a hottie in a video game? Really Knox got short shrift. OK yeah I googled Van Dine/Wright and yeaaaaaaaaah serious creepy uncle vibes. May we all become anime protagonists in heaven. witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 19:07
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Tired Moritz posted:Wait, there's an explosion? How did I miss that? Some of you guys theorized the existence of such, but I believe this is the first mention of one.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:08
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There had been mention of an accident, Maria identified by her jaw bone, and when Ange went in 1998 the mansion was not expected to be standing and there was some kind of crater.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:10
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ZiegeDame posted:There had been mention of an accident, Maria identified by her jaw bone, and when Ange went in 1998 the mansion was not expected to be standing and there was some kind of crater. Also Eva's story of a fire in 3.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:13
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We knew something had happened, but this is the first confirmation that it was specifically an explosion. That's probably why the game always ends at midnight, when it is allowed to end at all, because there's some kind of time bomb in the house. In fact, that also supplies some additional motive for family members to commit murder, apart from the money, if they are told about the bomb once it becomes impossible to escape the island. Edit: 
idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 19:15
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I'm not gonna touch any speculation because I've already read the series, but yes, Van Dine the person was kind of a hilarious dick. He was bedridden due to doing too much drugs, read a bunch of detective novels and went "Yup. I can do better!" and got fairly popular. He actually invented a lot of mystery tropes, but I'd argue that his own works weren't particularly impressive. For example: he created(or popularized) the nursery rhyme murders - the mystery trope of a murder following a song or a poem, present in works such as And Then There Were None...and Umineko! But actually reading the novel where that happens...man. Gonna be honest. Not the best thing. Like, it deserves credit for a couple quirky things. But as an actual mystery novel it's not the best. It is VERY amusing that the novel randomly stops at points because the author wants to talk about real life theoretical physics for very little reason other than the victim being a math professor  There's also a Van Dine novel that I'm not gonna name due to spoilers - honestly, until someone proves me wrong, I'll always assume that Umineko is based on the author reading it and thinking "Neat concept, but kinda trashy execution. I'm gonna have a go at it" because it's very similar in terms I'm going to be vague about. But yeah. Van Dine was basically the not particularly interesting giant others like Agatha Christie, Ellery Queen and John Dickson Carr stood on. Speaking of Carr, you guys might find his essay "Grandest Game in the World" pretty interesting. Wonder if its' been posted in the thread yet. It's great because he also has his list of rules in murder mysteries, but before he starts he goes on about how his rules are less rules and more prejudices about what makes stories fun for him personally. And he kinda gently poo poo talks Van Dine in the meantime. His rules boil down to "Don't be a loving prick to your reader, if you claim to be fair then be fair you poo poo." I might be paraphrasing it. Also worth noting that Knox took his list way less seriously than Dine did. Not that Dine was super serious himself, but he was...sure of himself enough that his ideas about mystery were apparent in his novels. Knox, even in his original essay(not the short rules version, the actual essay) was basically joking around the whole time. Like when you get to the Chinaman rule he's like "I offer no explanation for this mystery wise, only that if you start reading a novel and it throws out vaguely racist terms, it's gonna be a baaaaaaaaaad novel." On the servant note: back then, servants were often not given much of a character at all. They were present in scenes, had opporunity, but basically didn't exist. So Van Dine's rule is basically about only "actual characters" being allowed to be suspects instead of faceless character #32. Don't get me wrong though - Van Dine was the prickiest of classist judgmental pricks, and I don't doubt that his take on the rule was not the nicest one. Just wanted to chime in with that.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:32
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On the subject of Carr, She Died a Lady is another one of my personal favorites.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:34
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Putting aside the question of how Yamada managed to acquire and conceal a bomb large enough to turn the mansion into a crater, it makes sense why they would want to completely obliterate the place. They didn't want any trace of their life to last into the future except for the stories that they wrote in the message bottles. So much of their life had been decided for them, and so many of their choices so circumscribed that the idea of wiping the slate completely clean and defining reality on their own terms must have been so appealing. They wanted love to fill in the gaps of the story. That's a kind of magic, right?
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Jul 4, 2017 19:35
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ProfessorProf posted:On the subject of Carr, She Died a Lady is another one of my personal favorites. She Died a Lady is fantastic. It's Carr at his best - creepy supernatural impossible crime, clever solution, incredibly fair, interesting prose and neat narrative. I think we had a readthrough of that in the book section a while back if I recall, that was fun. I'm always gonna be partial to Three Coffins because it's...well, Three Coffins, but yeah. Carr is one writer I wish was born a little later because I think his novels would have made phenomenal games. He already approached stories with a somewhat over the top feeling and as an actual game, they would have adapted so well. Hell, he had an entire novel(The Judas Window) that reads like a Phoenix Wright game. The entire thing is set in a courtroom and the protagonist is Henry Merrivale, who...honestly wouldn't be out of place in the Ace Attorney universe given how he behaves. My personal favorite, even if not his cleverest mystery, is always gonna be The Unicorn Murders. I just love the very, very over the top setup it has and how half the novel consists of characters tossing theories at each other Umineko style while locked in a mansion with a "legendary Phantom Thief" possibly hiding somewhere. And it features some of Carr's most fun writing, so it's one of those books you just don't want to stop reading. Mystery itself is so-so, but goddamn it it's such a fun book.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:42
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ProfessorProf posted:On the subject of Carr, She Died a Lady is another one of my personal favorites. I actually haven't read that one. I'll have to add it to my list.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:17
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Wow, so much info. The bomb makes sense for the "everybody dies" line, but it's a bit of a puzzler how you'd actually pull it off. You want to kill anybody in the mansion or guesthouse, or maybe even in the garden between them. And from Ep 1, it needs to be powerful enough so even the number of bodies can't be determined. That's a lot of explosives. So you smuggle them in little by little and hide them somewhere you're sure nobody will look. Oh, with the gold, of course. That fits the idea that finding the gold will save everybody. Hmm, except the only time somebody survived, it was Eva, after finding the gold. Presumably she wouldn't have wanted it blown to scrap, but maybe the free relative removal was worth it. She hardly had time to relocate all that gold. Hopeford, I'm very curious to know the novel you're thinking of. Please remember to drop it in the thread when it's safe. As for all the rules, Carr's "play fair" is better than any list, even if it makes lousy red text.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:20
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BurningStone posted:Wow, so much info. The bomb makes sense for the "everybody dies" line, but it's a bit of a puzzler how you'd actually pull it off. You want to kill anybody in the mansion or guesthouse, or maybe even in the garden between them. And from Ep 1, it needs to be powerful enough so even the number of bodies can't be determined. That's a lot of explosives. So you smuggle them in little by little and hide them somewhere you're sure nobody will look. Oh, with the gold, of course. That fits the idea that finding the gold will save everybody. Hmm, except the only time somebody survived, it was Eva, after finding the gold. Presumably she wouldn't have wanted it blown to scrap, but maybe the free relative removal was worth it. She hardly had time to relocate all that gold. Obviously, no one has checked the gold thoroughly enough and it's actually just 20 tons of C4 with some gold paint. Just wait for the next set of furniture we're going to get, the amazing exploding anime girls! They can only explode once each, though.
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Jul 4, 2017 20:27
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wheezes quietly in delight he's here
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Jul 4, 2017 20:32
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BurningStone posted:Wow, so much info. The bomb makes sense for the "everybody dies" line, but it's a bit of a puzzler how you'd actually pull it off. You want to kill anybody in the mansion or guesthouse, or maybe even in the garden between them. And from Ep 1, it needs to be powerful enough so even the number of bodies can't be determined. That's a lot of explosives. So you smuggle them in little by little and hide them somewhere you're sure nobody will look. This might explain Shannon's disproportionate... appearance.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:25
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witchcore ricepunk posted:This might explain Shannon's disproportionate... appearance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vge-nnJleMk
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Jul 4, 2017 21:27
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witchcore ricepunk posted:This might explain Shannon's disproportionate... appearance. Breast Binding Technology X was actually Bra Bomb Technology Y the whole time?!?
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Jul 4, 2017 21:28
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tiny bombs indeed.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:28
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Tired Moritz posted:tiny bombs indeed. Fine post/av combo there.
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Jul 4, 2017 21:31
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I have obtained more mackerel.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:06
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witchcore ricepunk posted:This might explain Shannon's disproportionate... appearance. 
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Jul 4, 2017 22:09
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I love Rebirth. It's pretty much perfect for Will.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:50
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witchcore ricepunk posted:This might explain Shannon's disproportionate... appearance. Then Battler came so close to uncovering the plot! Or if George had been less of a gentleman, everybody lives!
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Jul 4, 2017 23:50
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BurningStone posted:Then Battler came so close to uncovering the plot! Or if George had been less of a gentleman, everybody lives! Bombs aside, I kind of think Yama wanted them to find out, but was too scared to be the one to reveal it all directly. That would explain their passiveness in that scene in E1.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:21
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BurningStone posted:Hopeford, I'm very curious to know the novel you're thinking of. Please remember to drop it in the thread when it's safe. Will do! Might have to wait until like, all episodes are done though haha.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:29
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witchcore ricepunk posted:Bombs aside, I kind of think Yama wanted them to find out, but was too scared to be the one to reveal it all directly. That would explain their passiveness in that scene in E1. Yeah, I think that was because they were okay with being discovered as long as it was Battler that did it.
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Jul 5, 2017 00:37
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havenwaters posted:Wizard-Hunting Wright was mentioned in a tip an episode or two ago and then there's the anchor necklace on the portrait which made people think about ships and SS Van Dine. There was also his gold eye color, and I believe the only other character who has gold eyes in the series is Dlanor. Dlanor also has a key emblem on her hat, and Will's anchor necklace has a key incorporated into the design.  But again, back then we had months to speculate on that portrait instead of a couple of days.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:19
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| # ? May 17, 2024 17:09 |
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To the surprise of absolutely nobody. S.S. Van Dine's mystery stories are some of my favourites. With the proviso that Philo Vance really is insufferable, that the quality of the stories deteriorates significantly over time to the point where the last few stories are painful to read, and that I hope Agatha Christie is laughing from the grave. My other favourite author is Ronald A. Knox. Yes I did get all my initial mystery novel recs from Umineko. Knox's stories are superb, IMO (and quite different from S.S. Van Dine's). And Will is one of my favourite characters in the series. (As is Dlanor!)Out of John Dickson Carr books, it's hard to pick the one I like best, but among the ones I liked the most are The Blind Barber, Murder in the Submarine Zone, and The Hollow Man. Hopeford posted:My personal favorite, even if not his cleverest mystery, is always gonna be The Unicorn Murders. I just love the very, very over the top setup it has and how half the novel consists of characters tossing theories at each other Umineko style while locked in a mansion with a "legendary Phantom Thief" possibly hiding somewhere. Ohhh, that one. I read that a few weeks ago, and it was quite a trip. There really aren't enough books which feature people arguing and theorising like that. Van Dine fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 05:41
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