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Jul 5, 2017 09:41
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:So ruling classes express arbitrary differences from the subject classes, but they are also real neuroses that you can identify. Do you realize how loving idiotic this is? The ability to control capital is a real difference between the bourgeois and the proletariat. Those are material relations to the means of production and it doesn't get much realer than that. You're not talking about wiping out identity, because if you can get a capitalist to give up their class privileges and become a prole - all you've done is convinced them to change sides and adopt a proletarian identity. So if your goal is to change society, the capitalist class is simply an impediment to that goal, because they will tend to naturally act in their self interest. It's nothing personal - just business. rudatron has issued a correction as of 09:59 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 09:55
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i identify as a rationally self-interested game theoretician
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Jul 5, 2017 09:57
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Being from Ohio isn't an essentially white experience. The real question here is, why would you want to make white identity positive? I mean I'm saying, that's a complete answer that rejects the overarching race identity as bullshit straw-grasping and delivers a perfectly tangible identity in alternative. The whiteness is going to have to figure in at some point because everybody knows black people don't get treated the same as white people in America, but if you keep things local you will actually be talking about yourself e.g. your identity instead of trying to link your pasty rear end to julius caesar or socrates. consumed by normies posted:the most maga pepe person i know irl is the son of muslim immigrants from india. i havent talked to him in awhile but he was always a very nice and funny guy so im pretty confused by it all is he as hardcore as hank? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgUD6Hflc4I apokaladle posted:The people I'm thinking of are Caribbean. I've also had some very interesting discussions with friends who are African immigrants or the children of same, but then again that's in an American context. lol poo poo, I totally agree with you but I wrote "identity" when i meant culture. Slim Jim Pickens has issued a correction as of 10:28 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 10:22
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rudatron posted:But there is nothing individually about the capitalist that makes them a capitalist. Their embedded status is the result of arbitrary history, and their behavior is predictable, because it follows standard patterns of human behavior (given that set of initial conditions). You cannot mount an archaeological expedition to find the 'real' core of what it means to be a capitalist, because that does not exist. It's the broader framework of society that has to change, not the 'inner self' or whatever other bullshit. The individual quality of a capitalist that makes them a capitalist is their claim of ownership to productive private property. You seem to be laboring under a delusion that social constructs are somehow not real, even when they have real material outcomes on the physical world because of the way they direct human energies. None of what you're saying is establishing that it's even possible to not have an identity. Maybe if you want people to think that it's possible not to have an identity, you need to define exactly what you think identity means.
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Jul 5, 2017 10:23
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sad to see that the son of Hannibal buress did not turn out so well
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Jul 5, 2017 10:31
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plz dont doxx me
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Jul 5, 2017 10:57
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Jul 5, 2017 10:59
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Crane Fist posted:I don't know if this article was meant to make him sound sympathetic but god drat what a dipshit lmao these motherfuckers know they are hosed up and wrong so they already have a sob story ready "it is not that I am an insane conspicacy nut because I am a hateful dispshit, it was the politically correct coworker who radicalized me"
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Jul 5, 2017 11:09
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The fundamental appeal of fascism hasn't really changed. 1. Recognition that the system is not working. 2. You are awesome and only have to boldly realize your innate awesomeness. 3. We don't need to make big scary changes to the system. We merely need to get rid of everyone and everything that isn't as innately awesome as us.
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Jul 5, 2017 11:58
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The Narrator posted:I'm the two copies of the same Cernovich book. One was a birthday/Christmas present. At least someone is paying enough attention to know what he likes. 
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Jul 5, 2017 12:00
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Al! posted:there should be a website wher u put up ur picture and you vote on whether youre a capitalist and fascist collaborator and and sympathizer or not oooh we could call it shot or not!
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Jul 5, 2017 12:12
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https://jennifermayers.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/americas-martyr-no-race-mixing/
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Jul 5, 2017 12:48
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BrainParasite posted:The fundamental appeal of fascism hasn't really changed. 1. Recognition that the system is not working. 2. You are awesome and only have to boldly realize your innate awesomeness. 3. We don't need to make big scary changes to the system. We merely need to get rid of everyone and everything that isn't as innately awesome as us. this sounds alot like the main tenets of modern capitalism
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Jul 5, 2017 13:52
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Jul 5, 2017 14:01
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The individual quality of a capitalist that makes them a capitalist is their claim of ownership to productive private property. You seem to be laboring under a delusion that social constructs are somehow not real, even when they have real material outcomes on the physical world because of the way they direct human energies. None of what you're saying is establishing that it's even possible to not have an identity. Maybe if you want people to think that it's possible not to have an identity, you need to define exactly what you think identity means. thats the same dude who had a racist meltdown after election day. just fyi 
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Jul 5, 2017 14:17
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consumed by normies posted:yeah the hindu modi supporter types make some sense because they really hate muslims, but uh his parents are literally muslim immigrants. i dont know anybody who does things because theyre mad at their parents so this is def a real head scratcher
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Jul 5, 2017 14:20
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Race Realists posted:thats the same dude who had a racist meltdown after election day. who, Pener? looks like it's time for a struggle session then.
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Jul 5, 2017 14:23
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A Pale Horse posted:who, Pener? looks like it's time for a struggle session then. Naw. Ol Rudin'Tootin there
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Jul 5, 2017 14:40
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I thought Rudatron's post-election meltdown was fatalistic, not racist.
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Jul 5, 2017 14:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I thought Rudatron's post-election meltdown was fatalistic, not racist. as a blerd, it was both hilarious and deeply, DEEPLY infuriating seeing white nerds scream about the real racists being women and minorities worried about their rights being taken away from them and shot dead by cops. and GBS's  reaction was merely salt on the wound.They showed their true colors that day. maybe figure out how to reach out more to minorities instead of condescending to them? just sayin yes im very histrionic. What of it?.... BornAPoorBlkChild has issued a correction as of 15:02 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 14:53
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I didn't do either of those things.Pener Kropoopkin posted:The individual quality of a capitalist that makes them a capitalist is their claim of ownership to productive private property. You seem to be laboring under a delusion that social constructs are somehow not real, even when they have real material outcomes on the physical world because of the way they direct human energies. None of what you're saying is establishing that it's even possible to not have an identity. Maybe if you want people to think that it's possible not to have an identity, you need to define exactly what you think identity means.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:41
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rudatron posted:The only logical way to live is without identity. getting dangerously close to Dark Enlightenment poo poo there, bud im just gonna say its really, really easy for a nerd to rationalize his rear end all the way into certain Reactionary ideologies especially STEM nerds. holy poo poo STEM nerds BornAPoorBlkChild has issued a correction as of 15:49 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 15:46
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yeah the whole thing stinks of classic dark enlightenment solipsism "since the only impact of non-me identities on the world is making me feel vaguely uncomfortable when they say things I don't understand, in the coming utopian autocracy systems will be put in place to shut them all the hell up." it just gets particularly entertaining when you get the socialists talking about how addressing -THIS- flavor of economic inequality is a no-no because a hillary supporter called them a brocialist one time.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:09
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im uncomfortable with all these new immigrants to socialist thinking and we need to build an ideological wall to keep our rhetoric pure
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Jul 5, 2017 16:13
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The premise of the dork endarkenment is of a grand historical conspiracy against archaic reactionary ideologies, which I can only interpret as being the result of a near-fatal dosage of fantasy literature to the brain. It's got very little to do with this discussion.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:13
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rudatron posted:I didn't do either of those things. Don't criticize other peoples' views of identity if you're not willing to follow through, my dude. Especially not if you're going to give a take as hot as "there should be no identity" without being willing to explain how that's even possible.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:28
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'no, seriously, the people agitating for social equality are all just pawns- witting or unwitting- of a grand conspiracy to keep me down." dark enlightenment weirdo dismissing all problems that he personally does not experience as being fake actually, or rudatron explaining the sinister true purpose of social justice rhetoric? The Answer May Surprise You
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Jul 5, 2017 16:33
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to be honest most social justice poo poo that is directly not intervening in someone actually being a shithead, is pretty much just twitter activist rhetoric for the most part.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:35
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how laughable these identity politics are, how transparently an exercise in attention-seeking behavior. it's all just an exercise in signalling virtue. *picks up homemade kekistan flag, goes to oathkeeper protest expecting to be welcomed with open arms*
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Jul 5, 2017 16:36
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sneakyfrog posted:to be honest most social justice poo poo that is directly not intervening in someone actually being a shithead, is pretty much just twitter activist rhetoric for the most part. rudatron posted:The premise of the dork endarkenment is of a grand historical conspiracy against archaic reactionary ideologies, which I can only interpret as being the result of a near-fatal dosage of fantasy literature to the brain. It's got very little to do with this discussion. oh my loving god theres no way in hell we'll be ready for 2018 or 2020. SEE YOU FUCKS IN 2024! 
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Jul 5, 2017 16:39
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i dont get that virtue signalling thing either isnt that just basically what being alive and having convictions is or it a new flavor of dumb?
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Jul 5, 2017 16:39
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Identity politics are only bad insofar as they've been abused by liberals to suppress class solidarity.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:40
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sneakyfrog posted:to be honest most social justice poo poo that is directly not intervening in someone actually being a shithead, is pretty much just twitter activist rhetoric for the most part. if your only interface with this stuff is through Online, definitely. basic internet social dynamics, whoever's got aggressive enough rhetoric to force out contrary opinions ends up dominating the social group. for non-political examples of the process see also literally every fandom ever.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:40
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rudatron posted:What are you expecting from me? dude the reason people are confused or asking you to explain better is that the thing you're saying makes basically no sense beyond the most abstract form of theory human biodiversity exists, has real consequences for peoples' daily lives, and is not purely a social construct (I'm not even talking about race poo poo I'm talking about poo poo like height) one of the most basic acts of cognition is making the observation that people are different from each other in light of those two things I have absolutely no clue whatsoever how we could build a society of people "without identity" without taking drastic sci-fi measures with their own set of potentially terrifying consequences
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Jul 5, 2017 16:46
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sneakyfrog posted:i dont get that virtue signalling thing either isnt that just basically what being alive and having convictions is or it a new flavor of dumb? the theory goes that people don't actually believe what they say, they're just saying it to look good it has the distinction of being wrong on two mutually contradictory levels. on the one hand, it's impossible to prove in any specific case; just a cheap way of trying to cast doubt on someone else's motives. on the other, it could also describes literally every action taken, by anyone, at any point, who factors in the fact they're being observed by someone else into their decision-making calculus. one of the rare cases of "either everything is x or nothing is" in the wild
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Jul 5, 2017 16:46
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Ze Pollack posted:the theory goes that people don't actually believe what they say, they're just saying it to look good ah. So basically its calling people out for perceived disingenuous behavior. So basically more jackass behavior. Thanks friend.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:49
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Identity politics are only bad insofar as they've been abused by liberals to suppress class solidarity. otoh it seems like we have more to gain from encouraging and learning from minority perspectives on oppression rather than trying to stifle them for the hopeless cause of preserving white fragility in the vain hope that this will build class solidarity (people don't develop a lifetime of reactionary ideology because a black person was rude to them one time about politics during an election, that's completely dumb)
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Jul 5, 2017 16:50
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I am willing, but I'll acknowledge that this is too much of a derail for this place. PM me the main thrust of your objection and we can talk it out in detail there. gently caress off dude, that's absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying, and you know it. You're such a liar.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:51
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sneakyfrog posted:i dont get that virtue signalling thing either isnt that just basically what being alive and having convictions is or it a new flavor of dumb? "virtue signaling" is a pepe term for idiots
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Jul 5, 2017 16:54
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