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Personally, I think the Win10 changes are geared more toward 'aping Apple' than a nefarious plot to serve ads, (although the ad thing is certainly an added monetization bonus). Which is kinda dumb, IMO, because drat near every MacOS fan that I know of hasn't been particularly happy with the last few versions.
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Jul 5, 2017 13:34
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Ooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr maybe MS wants to make a concerted effort into the touch device space and the old system of shell windows is completely incompatible with that, so they're migrating everything to a newly designed system with bigger buttons for interfaces. Nah, gotta be some grand conspiracy to control how you use your PC.
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Jul 5, 2017 14:54
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Nam Taf posted:Ooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr maybe MS wants to make a concerted effort into the touch device space and the old system of shell windows is completely incompatible with that, so they're migrating everything to a newly designed system with bigger buttons for interfaces. Also the old Control Panel is kind of a bloated clusterfuck and needed to be restructured. It's a lot easier to find things in Settings as well as looking a lot cleaner.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:12
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Also the old Control Panel is kind of a bloated clusterfuck and needed to be restructured. It's a lot easier to find things in Settings as well as looking a lot cleaner. Settings drops back to the classic control panel way way too much. It pisses me off
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Jul 5, 2017 15:20
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Shibawanko posted:Except I do run an antivirus program and firewall, I just don't want to be bugged by a nosy popup message generator designed for the kind of users who don't know what antivirus even is. And has been mentioned before, the security center framework is intended to warn you if your antivirus was disabled (for example, by a particularly dedicated piece of malware). I agree that Microsoft is adding some messages that would fall in line as scope creep, but disabling the security center in its entirety is overkill and counter-productive while you can just disable the notifications. Shibawanko posted:We all know that part of the reason why WIndows increasingly adds features that can't be turned off and try to manage all aspects of how you run your computer (including the move from traditional programs to apps that can only be removed in powershell if at all), is to control how users use their computer, not because these features are good for everybody who runs Windows. Removing the user's control serves the purpose of embedding more ads that are increasingly harder to get rid of. You're seeing a conspiracy where there is none. Windows is an enormous codebase with millions of man-hours put into it, parts of which likely date back decades. Microsoft is in the middle of a massive overhaul of that codebase and shifting to a rapid release cycle to get new features out to users sooner rather than later because it'd be another decade before they have everything 'ready' otherwise. Unsurprisingly, some changes are not appreciated by all users and other things are bugs that slipped through the cracks. On the whole, things have been improving over time with Microsoft even easing off on one of the biggest pain points (automatic forced reboots). Everyone knows the Control Panel was being deprecated as far back as Win8, where Microsoft outright said they didn't have time to move all the old options to the new UI but that they'd be continuing to migrate them in the future. People argued that the introduction of the Store in Win8 was going to result in a walled garden where you can't install anything from third-party sources, but that hasn't happened and all signs point to it not happening anytime in the near future. If anything, the package management system they introduced to allow for the Store is a loving godsend and more developers should be using it. You might not appreciate all the changes Microsoft has been making, but that doesn't mean nobody else does or that all those changes are explicitly to control how you use Windows. If you still don't want to accept that, there's nothing stopping you from rolling back to Win7 or Win8, and they still have some years of security fixes left if you want time to let Win10 settle some more before making a decision to transition to another operating system.
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Jul 5, 2017 15:39
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In your opinion, how much difference is there between a keep-nothing upgrade to W10 and a proper clean install from media?
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Jul 5, 2017 16:01
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codo27 posted:In your opinion, how much difference is there between a keep-nothing upgrade to W10 and a proper clean install from media? Enough for my tastes but there's something wrong with me (someone remind me wrecked wrecked drivers stay wrecked in a Reset Windows scenario). Also your license doesn't transfer from your previous version of Windows unless you upgrade, so if you have what's wrong with me I'd upgrade, check to make sure it activated, then zero-install. EDIT: And make a backup image first (I like Macrium Reflect Free for this) in case something got left behind or the upgrade goes banana-shaped. Note that upgrade licenses are based on hardware profile; you don't need to worry about 'linked to your Microsoft account' unless you're changing the motherboard you're using, in which case pulling your license from your MS account can only help.
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Jul 5, 2017 18:05
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drunken officeparty posted:My computer was acting super weird so I restarted it and it updated. From the update log it looks like it tried almost 15 times to do I had to manually download and install that one to get it to stop messing up. I figure they'll fix it in the windows update channel eventually but I didn't want to deal with the endless cycle of failed updates any more.
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Jul 5, 2017 18:58
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redeyes posted:Settings drops back to the classic control panel way way too much. It pisses me off Yeah, the half-measures suck and I was expecting that to be finished with 8.1, then 8.1update1, then 10, but they keep blowing it every time.
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Jul 5, 2017 19:00
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Also the old Control Panel is kind of a bloated clusterfuck and needed to be restructured. It's a lot easier to find things in Settings as well as looking a lot cleaner. Trouble is now more stuff has been moved over the new one is a bloated clusterfuck too - just one that wastes a whole lot of space and isn't as easy to search My current Windows gripe is the laptop I wanted to use as an always on HTPC kept going to sleep after 2 minutes no matter what options I set. Turns out there is an additional hidden option in the old power plan which needs a registry key set before it will display. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...2a75352d?auth=1 Good going Microsoft. e. My other laptop has the opposite problem where if (and only if) it goes to sleep on battery it'll wake up randomly then stay awake until the battery completely drains. Grrr dissss fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 20:21
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dissss posted:Trouble is now more stuff has been moved over the new one is a bloated clusterfuck too - just one that wastes a whole lot of space and isn't as easy to search Power settings and how the computer sleeps or wakes has been the bane of my (home) windows experience for years. I've got a fun one for you, since upgrading to 1703 I can no longer switch between inputs on my monitor without power cycling the monitor for windows to pick up on it. If I don't, windows will never "see" the display, despite both my keyboard and mouse showing they have power. It's extremely frustrating and causes me to close all applications so no windows will be resized to 640x480 or whatever the "I don't have a display, oh there's my display!" resolution defaults too. This also means I have to listen to a loud pop as my speakers get sound output with the power on of my monitor. Using the 1604 version, if I slept my PC, switched inputs to another computer, and then switched back before waking the computer it would pick up on the existing display and not cause any sort of headache. No loud pops, no turning the monitor off and back on again, no resizing every open window. gg windows
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Jul 6, 2017 01:05
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Anyone else having issues with the W10 Night Light not turning on when it's supposed to?
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Jul 6, 2017 04:22
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Cross-Section posted:Anyone else having issues with the W10 Night Light not turning on when it's supposed to? Doesn't turn off when it's supposed to for me. I'm on the fast track Insider builds though.
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Jul 6, 2017 11:34
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I just thought I'd chime in and say Windows 10 on Microsoft's own Surface hardware isn't that much better. I've been using one with Windows 10 Enterprise for months now (1703) and it still has issues. The majority of the problems have been trouble sleeping/waking up the device and not working properly on battery power. If I try to use this Surface on battery power with a single USB device attached to it (such as a mouse), the computer will randomly lock up for 30 seconds - 1 minute and eventually allow me to work again.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:15
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isndl posted:If anything, the package management system they introduced to allow for the Store is a loving godsend and more developers should be using it. You mean the one where it breaks 3/4ths of the time for no given reason and doesn't really do anything to help you diagnose it or the Powershell thing? I actually had no idea the latter existed until just now; I've been pretty happy with Chocolatey for all my lazy dev needs.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:01
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Warbird posted:You mean the one where it breaks 3/4ths of the time for no given reason and doesn't really do anything to help you diagnose it or the Powershell thing? I actually had no idea the latter existed until just now; I've been pretty happy with Chocolatey for all my lazy dev needs. I was thinking of the general idea of installing software via packages rather than MSI etc. installers that always end up leaving cruft around. If things have been breaking I haven't noticed it, though I have seen the Store do weird things when trying to update apps which could be related in hindsight. The PowerShell stuff can pull packages from Chocolatey as well.
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Jul 6, 2017 20:30
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Is it possible to offline/isolate/force everything to not use a core on Win10? One of my new I7 systems has a bad core and I'd like to limp along this weekend since I won't have a replacement until monday. Prime95 instantly faults threads 7 and 8, so it's pretty clear where the problem lies. 3 cores is better than 0. I haven't even overclocked it yet, just didn't have time.
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Jul 7, 2017 03:44
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Harik posted:Is it possible to offline/isolate/force everything to not use a core on Win10? One of my new I7 systems has a bad core and I'd like to limp along this weekend since I won't have a replacement until monday. Yes, follow the first set of instructions in this article: http://solidlystated.com/software/how-to-disable-a-cpu-core/ Once you set that, it will persist in ignoring the physical core and its matching logical core pair until you change settings again. The unfortunate side effect is that you can only block cores at the end of the list with it, but since your problem is the last core that's not an issue right now. This method also works all the way back to Vista, maybe XP, if you happened to have need of it on a machine running older Windows.
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Jul 7, 2017 03:53
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quote:One of my new I7 systems has a bad core and I'd like to limp along this weekend since I won't have a replacement until monday.
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Jul 7, 2017 04:05
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redeyes posted:I've never heard or read of any Intel procs with defects like that. I'd be more likely to blame ram memory. Agreed. I started by swapping RAM around, because whoever heard of a bad intel chip? Swaps didn't fix it, memtests are fine and it dies on the tiny FFT in prine95 (In-cache only), and always on CPU7 and 8. It's also instant, I think it fails on the first validation cycle prime95 does, it gives errors like ".4555131 > .4" and the other cores keep working. FunFact: You can browse to prime95 from an install media rescue command prompt and run it from there. Same result.
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Jul 7, 2017 04:22
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Crazy idea... try pulling the CPU out and reseating it. Probably won't work, but might work.
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Jul 7, 2017 04:27
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Factor Mystic posted:Crazy idea... try pulling the CPU out and reseating it. Probably won't work, but might work. Already did - another goon suggested that maybe some pins got bent so we carefully inspected the socket. Limiting it to the first 3 cores (6 CPUs) has it up and running. It worked for a full week then started crashing at random - maybe something was super marginal and survived Intel's tests and gave out in the field. I'm as surprised as any of you, it's the last thing I'd expect to be at fault, and the last thing I checked. Swapping ram, putting NVMe in the other socket, making sure the heatsink was good and thermals were right, windows reinstall, BIOS update, checked the memory profile, pulled the CPU and checked the pins, then finally disabled the cores and it's just been running. If it weren't for P95 insta-failing the two threads on core3 immediately every time I started it I'd still suspect a flaky mainboard or something. Thanks, Fishmech. I'd found that link but disregarded it since I wouldn't have expected an old XP (95?) trick to work on 10. Harik fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 05:15
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Where does Windows as an OS "begin"? What I mean is that obviously it's not down on the level of telling the processor how to flip flop individual transistors for calculations, or the monitor how to turn a pixel on. And it also doesn't make the keyboard work, because the BIOS can use it but other peripherals it is the one doing it. Do they even update that deep down anymore? Is it some 30 year old code that has been passed on, or is there a basement room with one old man using punch cards he got from Bill Gates.
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Jul 7, 2017 05:31
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drunken officeparty posted:Where does Windows as an OS "begin"? What I mean is that obviously it's not down on the level of telling the processor how to flip flop individual transistors for calculations, or the monitor how to turn a pixel on. And it also doesn't make the keyboard work, because the BIOS can use it but other peripherals it is the one doing it. Do they even update that deep down anymore? Is it some 30 year old code that has been passed on, or is there a basement room with one old man using punch cards he got from Bill Gates. Pretty surprisingly low, and a lot of that is new. The old keyboard driver for PS/2 keyboards and mice doesn't help with USB, for example, and USB drivers are replaced every time the new generation of USB comes out. Disk IO is completely new (SATA and NVMe). Each CPU needs it's own special-snowflake support just to be able to task-switch and save all the new AVXXXTREME registers. Nobody uses BIOS calls at this point for anything other than ACPI/UEFI callbacks into pstate management. E: the 30 year old is stupid bullshit like COPY CON locking up your computer in 2016. Yes, ancient dos serial port drivers still hijack filenames. Plenty of other "must be backwards compatible no matter the cost" things too, although most of them try to detect the application they're being compatible for at least. Harik fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 06:46
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drunken officeparty posted:Where does Windows as an OS "begin"? What I mean is that obviously it's not down on the level of telling the processor how to flip flop individual transistors for calculations, or the monitor how to turn a pixel on. And it also doesn't make the keyboard work, because the BIOS can use it but other peripherals it is the one doing it. Do they even update that deep down anymore? Is it some 30 year old code that has been passed on, or is there a basement room with one old man using punch cards he got from Bill Gates. Things are somewhat different for machines booting with UEFI native and booting with real BIOS or UEFI-emulated BIOS. Both things are called firmware as a common term, and it's what every other computing platform calls it too. The firmware is responsible for bootstrapping the hardware and doing self test, and then initiating loading the operating system. So the firmware will contain hardware-specific code that knows how to initialize the CPU and RAM types the machine supports, as well as all the other supporting things like PCI bus, USB controllers, Ethernet chipsets, and so on. Everything needs to be switched on and have some basic self-tests run. The firmware will also need to know how to read a disk drive to put some part of what is stored on it, in a fixed location, into RAM, and then have the CPU continue running from there. Classic BIOS reads the Master Boot Record (first 512 bytes on the physical drive), sets the CPU to Real Mode (16 bit DOS compatible), and executes those 512 bytes. Those 512 bytes are the bootloader the operating system has installed. That's how PC booting worked for most of history. UEFI firmware knows about filesystems, and will look for a boot partition with a /boot directory containing bootloader code, also supplied by the OS. After firmware has passed control to OS code like that, the OS will typically first use services from the firmware to load basic files/additional bootloader code. In the classic BIOS scenario you only have 512 bytes of code to get ahead, so you can't really implement much of a filesystem driver, so you instead depend on the BIOS to have functions to help you read more code from disk. A modern OS will typically implement a minimal filesystem driver and disk access drivers, then switch the CPU to protected mode (32 bit) or long mode (64 bit) and use those basic drivers to load the rest of the OS. Eventually the OS will depend entirely on its own drivers to do all hardware access, not letting the BIOS do anything. In the UEFI case, there are more features available, so the OS loading happens faster and needs to just through fewer hoops. It still ends up with the OS using its own drivers for everything, rather than firmware functions. Still, regardless of how much of the firmware the OS has evicted from control, the system still has some built-in code running in System Management Mode (SMM). This is in particular power management stuff that the firmware sets up and controls, and the OS can't see or control this at all. So even when the OS is running and using its own drivers, the firmware still has some code active regardless. SMM was introduced back with the 386SL processors, since those were meant for low-power machines (portables) and needed some power management that could work regardless of what OS or other software was doing. But yes, the firmware still needs to be maintained and updated, since it needs to initialize all the hardware and prepare some data structures the OS uses to know what kind of system it's running on. As long as they keep inventing new hardware they also need to update the firmware to match.
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Jul 7, 2017 08:51
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drunken officeparty posted:Where does Windows as an OS "begin"? What I mean is that obviously it's not down on the level of telling the processor how to flip flop individual transistors for calculations, or the monitor how to turn a pixel on. And it also doesn't make the keyboard work, because the BIOS can use it but other peripherals it is the one doing it. Do they even update that deep down anymore? Is it some 30 year old code that has been passed on, or is there a basement room with one old man using punch cards he got from Bill Gates. Where does it begin? As soon as the kernel is loaded. Edit* At least in the world of Linux, things are loaded as such: UEFI/BIOS -> Bootloader -> Kernel -> Process 0 The kernel has a few jobs: 1) To switch the CPU to its correct mode (as stated above) 2) To load various built-in drivers. 3) To mount the filing system designated as the primary filing system. 4) To load external drivers on the filing system (Nvidia/AMD) 5) To load Process ID (PID) 0, which is generally called "init" (Not sure if this is the correct step in Windows) At least in the land of Linux: Init is the very first user-space application to run, and generally, the only user-space application that is (and should be) run directly by the kernel. Init handles everything from starting all your services to loading your GUI. Init can be anything so long as it's executable (Android runs a different Init application than Fedora, and embedded Linux it could be a poo poo-tier bash script). But rest assured, as soon as Init is running, you are now 100% in userland. The Filing systems are loaded, the drivers are up and running, and your gigantic bucket of leaky electrons are working as best as they can. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows also has a PID0 that it launches that does basically the same thing, you just can't change it. So where does "Windows" as an OS begin? I would argue the kernel, but a lot of people would say Init. 
FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 11:31
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So, does the trick with installing Win10 fresh with a Win7 key from off eBay still work? A plan I've been toying with is to Clean Install Windows 10 onto an old Dell Inspirion currently running Vista so that it can continue to be safely used as a Facebook/Email/Online shopping machine for my parents. Classic Shell should quell their complaints about the Start menu. It was a luxury model a decade ago and thus it meets the Win10 minimum specs, so that's not an issue.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:19
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I used a Windows 7 Ultimate key a few months ago just fine. I think there's even a thread in SA-Mart selling keys that work.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:22
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Kerning Chameleon posted:So, does the trick with installing Win10 fresh with a Win7 key from off eBay still work? A plan I've been toying with is to Clean Install Windows 10 onto an old Dell Inspirion currently running Vista so that it can continue to be safely used as a Facebook/Email/Online shopping machine for my parents. Classic Shell should quell their complaints about the Start menu. It was a luxury model a decade ago and thus it meets the Win10 minimum specs, so that's not an issue. I picked up a cast off HP 2570p from work a couple of weeks back and the Windows 7 key behind the battery actives 10 just fine.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:58
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How can I stop Windows 10 from updating GPU drivers without my permission? I'm trying to roll back to a specific older AMD driver by: - Running Display Driver Uninstaller in Safe Mode - Disabling automatic driver downloads in device installation settings - Installing the older AMD drivers, disabling automatic updates in the installer This works for a while, and Device Manager shows the card as having the older drivers. But a few hours later I'll be doing something else and the screen will flick off and on like it does during driver installation. I check Device Manager and the card has the most recent drivers on it. How is Windows doing this and how can I get it to knock it off?
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Jul 10, 2017 12:04
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Anyone have an idea why my sound would come out of my laptop speakers instead of my usb headset 3/4 of the time I wake up my computer to sleep? I keep it plugged in all the time, and it fixes if I just pop it out then back in, but it's weird.
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Jul 11, 2017 06:51
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Nothing definitive, but at a guess your laptop is disconnecting devices when it goes to sleep or when the screen goes off or something. You may be able to fix it by going into Settings: Devices > USB > uncheck "Stop devices when my screen is off [...]" - but this could be a problem if you're actually relying on things turning off when your screen does.
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Jul 11, 2017 09:14
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Dr Snofeld posted:How can I stop Windows 10 from updating GPU drivers without my permission? I'm trying to roll back to a specific older AMD driver by: Try this? http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/stop-automatic-driver-updates-windows-10
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Jul 12, 2017 03:37
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Installing Win10 32-bit on the old Dell Inspiron 1720 has been a miserable failure so far. I've tried formatting the OS partition and Clean Installing three times, with all usb devices besides the installation stick unplugged, switched off the wifi, and kept the ethernet unplugged, and it still hangs with no drive activity on the Logo with the spinning dots screen after restarting after the "Getting Ready" spinning dots sequence. Windows Startup Repair can't fix the issue, and sfc /scannow reports no violations. I'm about ready to just say screw it and attempt a Win7 install instead in an attempt to get the machine into any kind of usable state at this point. Kerning Chameleon fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 08:07
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Why are you installing 32 bit to begin with?
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Jul 12, 2017 15:57
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Installing Win10 32-bit on the old Dell Inspiron 1720 has been a miserable failure so far. I've tried formatting the OS partition and Clean Installing three times, with all usb devices besides the installation stick unplugged, switched off the wifi, and kept the ethernet unplugged, and it still hangs with no drive activity on the Logo with the spinning dots screen after restarting after the "Getting Ready" spinning dots sequence. As above, try the 64-bit version of Windows 10. Also, when formatting the hard drive, try this: delete all the partitions so that the entirety of the drive is "Unpartitioned" (I think that's what Setup names it). Then select the drive and install Windows on it without manually creating any partitions, Setup will do that for you. Other than that, see if there's a BIOS update for your machine. No idea if any of that would help but that's where I would start.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:16
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Looking at the specs for that laptop, I see it has GMA3100 graphics... You are going to be pretty disappointed with the performance in Windows 10. Intel does not provide an offical 10 driver for it, and the one included in Windows 10 is pretty abysmal. I know this from experience. The "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter" driver was faster!
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Jul 12, 2017 16:19
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Would Windows 7 perform better on that machine? I thought the graphics performance was improved in 10.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:38
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Win10 is going to be a bit less graphically taxing because they dropped the aeroglass effects and whatnot but even old, old integrated graphics held up to the 2d and video stuff well enough. Driver support is really your issue, safer to stay on 7 or maybe bump it to 8.1 if the driver was supported there.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:41
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Well, 10 doesn't have "glass" effects with background blurring.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:42
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