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Schwarzwald posted:If Unicron is something like the Devil, then Earth is something like Hell. Anything leaving (or tossed) from Cybertron would eventually settle here. That was my take on it too. gently caress you, we're all living in Hell. 'God' wants to kill a slumbering Satan and destroy Hell, restoring Heaven to glory in the process. And the cast decide to try and kill God instead. The second act was the most deliriously mental thing I've seen on the screen in years. I may never stop laughing at the febrile majesty of it all. Anthony Hopkins was a revelation, imparting insane exposition while Cogman goes hog wild on the church organ. The heroine is an Oxford professor who just happens to be the last descendant of Merlin and sole obstacle to God's mechanations. What the Christ? Amazing. Spectacular, even.
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Jul 1, 2017 10:38
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Does a movie about transforming robots need to be 'good'? It felt like they were trying to one up the whole ending sequence of dark of the moon that was done better.
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Jul 1, 2017 12:55
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Yaws posted:I think the Transformers movies are a gift to film critics. Every few years they get to go scorched earth on one of these movies. Really sink their teeth into them. It must be such a serene release of emotions. The problem is that they don't sink their teeth in. They do a shallow criticism using a basic surface reading, and wilfully assume anything else was unintentional.
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Jul 1, 2017 14:02
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HiriseSoftware posted:What up, metro Detroit brother! Right! I couldn't remember who the goon was, but yeah, I definitely remember it was you walking through the Fisher Building. That's really cool about the personal direction from Bay and everything. I really wanted to be an extra when they put the call out for the 4th one but never got around to doing it. Didn't even hear about this time around, but there wasn't a lot of urban stuff filmed in Detroit for this one.
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Jul 1, 2017 15:12
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I was an extra in Dark of the Moon, I was in that scene at the Fisher building you mentioned. That one low-angle shot of the two guys walking towards the camera, I lost count of how many times we had to do that. Bay got pissed at one of his crewmembers, something about the camera rig having a loose mechanism. I was the guy in the background walking away, and I'm somewhere in the crowd below when Lennox is talking. Josh Duhamel even said hi to us afterwards, he was nice. And TALL.
Snowman_McK posted:The problem is that they don't sink their teeth in. They do a shallow criticism using a basic surface reading, and wilfully assume anything else was unintentional. It's one thing that stuck out to me about Ellis' reading, where she talked very briefly about Quintessa as being duplicitous and bad because she is termed 'the Deciever'. But doesn't mention who terms her that (her rebellious children/enemies) and their relation to her (betrayed her and stole her devil-killing staff), and didn't even examine anything about Quintessa's dialogue or her claims to determine if she was a liar or deceitful at all.
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Jul 1, 2017 15:19
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MisterBibs posted:My response to someone bitching about the quality of McDonalds is always an eye roll, since burgers are burgers. Sometimes, I'd give them a poke and ask them how much they pay for their artisinally-grown burgers with locally-sourced lettuce that fills you up just as much as my cheap-rear end double-cheeseburger-just-ketchup-and-mustard-please. Are you arguing that quality doesn't matter when it comes to burgers or that it's impossible to make a better burger than McDonald's?
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Jul 1, 2017 16:21
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Please do not insult the Big Mac with your transformer hate.
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Jul 1, 2017 16:48
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Tenzarin posted:Please do not insult the Big Mac with your transformer hate. Yeah they're more of a BK thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmV4EuHXy1c
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Jul 1, 2017 16:56
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Hedenius posted:Are you arguing that quality doesn't matter when it comes to burgers or that it's impossible to make a better burger than McDonald's? It's the former. He's had this exact argument in another thread, it was just as stupid there. Money made = quality is Bib's entire shtick.
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Jul 1, 2017 18:10
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MisterBibs posted:My response to someone bitching about the quality of McDonalds is always an eye roll, since burgers are burgers. Sometimes, I'd give them a poke and ask them how much they pay for their artisinally-grown burgers with locally-sourced lettuce that fills you up just as much as my cheap-rear end double-cheeseburger-just-ketchup-and-mustard-please.  that you think it's a loving 'affectation' to be willing to pay more for higher quality food. Your argument is loving garbage, which, incidentally, is what you should be eating if price and satiety are literally the only important things to consider when you buy food.
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Jul 1, 2017 19:09
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Bayformer analogy is not a good greasy unhealthy burger, its more like a hamburger fused to layer on layer of cardboard you got to chew through first - those movies make you sit through 2 hours of unfunny humans doing shticks to get to the robot fighting part.
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Jul 1, 2017 20:43
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Milky Moor posted:I do think it's interesting how the TF films are probably the most derided big name franchise series in existence, by the audience and critics alike, and yet they still make so much goddamn money. Even if people are screaming about how much they hate these films and how much they hate Bay and how they can't tell what's happening or whatever, they always go. It's one of the things that I'm glad Lindsay Ellis pointed out about these films -- they're basically unique in how they succeed despite seemingly being universally disliked. That's the thing: they aren't universally disliked. They are comprehensively liked, it's just that some people have isolated themselves so strongly in the cultural boonies that they believe the greater culture agrees with them. Successes like the Transformers reveals how isolated they've become. It's like being on a small island, and assuming that it's the entire world.
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Jul 1, 2017 20:57
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I like the Transformers movies way more than McDonalds.
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Jul 1, 2017 21:03
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Milky Moor posted:they're basically unique in how they succeed despite seemingly being universally disliked. You will never find someone who admits to being a U2 fan in Ireland, but the gigs always sell out 
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Jul 1, 2017 21:48
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Movies aren't food.
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Jul 1, 2017 21:56
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Lord Krangdar posted:Movies aren't food. But if they were, Transformers would be the burger that's trying way too hard to be near impossible to eat. Mainstream critics dismiss it as a waste of ingredients while next level critics celebrate its exploration of the morality of excess whilst indulging in that excess.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:49
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I love these movies and reading Terry and SMG's analysis of them. Can you guys recommend any other critics that delve deeper into these types of films? I like Armond White because even if I don't agree with him all the time he still gives me a lot to think about, and he's made me appreciate Steven Spielberg more even though Spielberg's movies always seemed to cutesy for me. It's me the person with the worst movie opinions 
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Jul 1, 2017 23:50
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Maluco Marinero posted:But if they were, Transformers would be the burger that's trying way too hard to be near impossible to eat. Mainstream critics dismiss it as a waste of ingredients while next level critics celebrate its exploration of the morality of excess whilst indulging in that excess. Except these movies are very possible to watch. In fact, I just watched one the other day.
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Jul 1, 2017 23:58
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Lindsay Ellis has done a pretty good video on whether or not the robots are dudes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMfV7S5hfUo
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Jul 2, 2017 06:25
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Lord Krangdar posted:Finally got to see this yesterday. I want to write a longer list of impressions at some point, but for now the part that stuck out the most was when they were fighting in that abandoned city (and they kept stressing that it was abandoned) but then there was a bored old black man in the side of one of the first shots there, a janitor inexplicably sweeping the floors of one of the half-destroyed abandoned buildings, and a random junkie shooting up in the background of one of the action sequences. If you look closer you can see Batman punching Superman there too!
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Jul 2, 2017 15:10
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Tenzarin posted:Does a movie about transforming robots need to be 'good'? It felt like they were trying to one up the whole ending sequence of dark of the moon that was done better. It doesn't have to be, but it'd be nice. There are different metrics of good. Unfortunately (in my opinion) the metric used by the TF franchise is 'entertains people in much the same way dangling shiny objects in front of babies does'
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Jul 3, 2017 06:30
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Tenzarin posted:Please do not insult the Big Mac with your transformer hate. A Big Mac is just a lovely hamburger with lovely lettuce and badly-made thousand island dressing on it.
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Jul 3, 2017 12:01
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MisterBibs posted:That's the thing: they aren't universally disliked. They are comprehensively liked, it's just that some people have isolated themselves so strongly in the cultural boonies that they believe the greater culture agrees with them. Successes like the Transformers reveals how isolated they've become. Quality is not a single gradient scale. The question of whether you, a traveler on these roads, will be fulfilled by a given experience, is a very different question from how many people will be drawn to it. You're correct insofar as the critical consensus tends not to align with a completely unrelated metric with which it was never intended to correlate. Everybody has a unique palette for the media they consume. If you look at music, for instance, there's obviously something to be said about 4/4 timing and the I–V–vi–IV chord progression. The appeal is nearly universal and is instantly appreciable by most audiences- they're in most people's palettes. This isn't a bad thing, it's just... a thing. The issue isn't whether these elements work- of course they do. The issue is that something that works all the time and for everybody is also very likely to be the least interesting thing to a developed palette, and, contrary to popular belief, most people have a developed palette. Modulation, prosody, lyrical choice, instrumentation, and the performances of the musicians involved are all factors that texture a song in different ways, and a listener will naturally develop a unique taste for which of these elements (and the interrelations thereby) appeal to them personally. They may not have the vocabulary to articulate why, but even the most populist forms of entertainment will leave a sizable chunk of their audiences simply feeling like "it's not their thing" or they "just didn't care for it", and, crucially, the most populist entertainment needn't even appeal to the majority of people- drawing in enough people to make a lot of money is very different from appealing to everybody, and the phenomenal nature is only going to seem alien and oppressive to the people who never had a taste for it. Hence Disco Demolition Night. Given the simple time signature and the pop song chords as the basic building blocks of a pop snog, an artist can craft them, along with other elements, into a unique experience- "Poker Face" is a very different experience from "Let It Be". A critic's job to assess this artistry- not does it work for me, or even does it work for most people, but, given the disparate and multi-faceted nature of song construction, does this song accomplish what it reaches for? Do the elements work in conjunction to form a cohesive experience? A low rotten tomatoes score isn't critics saying amovie is "bad" in the same sense that an average moviegoer would, it's critics saying that, from their perspective as an experienced traveler, the movie fails as an experience. A critic can personally not enjoy a movie while still acknowledging that it's a "good" movie. When they say a movie is bad, they're saying something, thematically, is out of place, something jars and contradicts and works against something else, and the film as a whole feels dissonant and incomplete as a result. And a "good" movie can be just as cynical and formulaic as a bad one- Hammer Horror was a critical and commercial success for decades without changing its formula, to the extent that the formula is still recognizable today. As a body, film critics understand that what Bay excels at is the distillation of populist elements. They aren't saying it's wrong, they're saying it's besides the point entirely.
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Jul 5, 2017 21:29
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That's an awful lof ot  to defend critics saying "stop having fun wrong".
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Jul 6, 2017 01:51
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biracial bear for uncut posted:A Big Mac is just a lovely hamburger with lovely lettuce and badly-made thousand island dressing on it. I think you need to find a better McDonald's.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:56
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Tenzarin posted:I think you need to find a better McDonald's. Having been to McDonalds around the world in the 80s, 90s and 2000s, I can say that America has the most subpar ones. Canada's was awesome and Hong Kong's had the best fish filet. Other countries also have better localized things.
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Jul 6, 2017 02:52
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The McDonalds on the Mexican side of the us/Mexico border has an amazing salsa/dipping sauce bar.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:04
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ruddiger posted:The McDonalds on the Mexican side of the us/Mexico border has an amazing salsa/dipping sauce bar. The one in London has a chicken tikka sandwich. The one in Pakistan has a chicken big mac with two crispy chicken patties. The one in Dubai had a sort of gyro/lamb thing. The one in Canada had all you can eat pizza.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:07
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I don't know if I can trust McDonald pizza. The one in Hawaii had something unique (BK had it too) but I can't remember what it was,
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Jul 6, 2017 03:09
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Gatts posted:The one in London has a chicken tikka sandwich. The one in Pakistan has a chicken big mac with two crispy chicken patties. The one in Dubai had a sort of gyro/lamb thing. The one in Canada had all you can eat pizza. The supermarket near my house has actual food in it, so I go there.
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Jul 6, 2017 03:21
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MisterBibs posted:That's the thing: they aren't universally disliked. They are comprehensively liked, it's just that some people have isolated themselves so strongly in the cultural boonies that they believe the greater culture agrees with them. Successes like the Transformers reveals how isolated they've become. Potent words from a man who was nearly laid low by a hotdog.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:05
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Snowman_McK posted:The supermarket near my house has actual food in it, so I go there. Fantastic!! I do that as well but I can also afford to enjoy myself a bit at times and also find it's just as cost effective if not cheaper to dine out depending on what I want to have. Entertaining for people is fun too! Like Tranformers by Michael Bay!
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Jul 6, 2017 18:18
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Cubone posted:A low rotten tomatoes score isn't critics saying amovie is "bad" in the same sense that an average moviegoer would, it's critics saying that, from their perspective as an experienced traveler, the movie fails as an experience. A critic can personally not enjoy a movie while still acknowledging that it's a "good" movie. When they say a movie is bad, they're saying something, thematically, is out of place, something jars and contradicts and works against something else, and the film as a whole feels dissonant and incomplete as a result. But in this case that's exactly what makes these movies worth watching and discussing. They could have just been what they're reputation suggests: power fantasies where the adolescent hero saves the day and gets the girl with the help of his cool robot friends, punctuated with explosion after explosion. But there are so many parts that jar, contradict, and work against that. There's a dissonance between what a Transformers movie is 'supposed to be' and what these actually are. It's a shame that we're still in Terry's thread but everyone seems to have moved on to ignoring her analysis, and the underlying idea behind it: What if we didn't discard all the parts of these movies that don't fit the marketing or the memes? What if we focused on those parts instead?
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Jul 6, 2017 18:21
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Lord Krangdar posted:It's a shame that we're still in Terry's thread but everyone seems to have moved on to ignoring her analysis Not everyone is going to treat that post like it's a holy writ.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:41
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Yaws posted:Not everyone is going to treat that post like it's a holy writ. True, but I didn't say anything about that. You've quoted me, but that's not a reply to anything I said. Not only do I not expect people to treat her analysis like holy writ, I don't even necessarily expect anyone to agree with it at all. But new possibilities have been opened up here for looking at these movies and Michael Bay beyond the usual memes, and its a shame when they're ignored.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:55
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It's a shame such delirious and demented piece of filmmaking is doing so much worse than its predecessors. It straddles the ground between being thematically fascinating while embracing its ludicrous cartoon roots by playing fast and loose with endearingly silly ideas. The sort of film where no, there wasn't a scene where the Autobots wear white lab coats to try and trick their foes into thinking they're ordinary human scientists but if there had been, it wouldn't have felt out of place.
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Jul 7, 2017 10:25
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I think maybe people are just burned out on the Transformers movies, you can only sit through so many overlong, deafening, muddled films before you start to just dread them.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:44
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Yeah, there are very few movie franchises where audiences don't just flat out get bored with them, eventually. Their longevity so far is impressive. It took five films for it to happen; most franchises begin to fail to do their jobs at the second or third movie.
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Jul 7, 2017 22:47
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Allegedly pictures from the Bumblebee movie set. 
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Jul 9, 2017 02:35
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The MSJ posted:Allegedly pictures from the Bumblebee movie set. That just looks like someones lawn dude
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Jul 9, 2017 07:45
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