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Eau de MacGowan posted:is this game worth fifteen english pounds It's worth 50.
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Jul 5, 2017 19:08
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Eau de MacGowan posted:is this game worth fifteen english pounds freebooter posted:It is absolutely Emily's story and they only decided to add Corvo down the track, and that becomes clear in the opening scene. It's still fine as Corvo, it works as Corvo, it just works much better as Emily. Play as Emily first, because it was clearly written with her in mind.
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Jul 6, 2017 12:16
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GotLag posted:If you play as Corvo there's the slight problem of Emily's lack of development from inattentive playgirl to concerned ruler who understands the empire - she just gets frozen and wakes up after Corvo fixed it all again You mean, she gets frozen and stays that way because Corvo leaves her a statue because that way she'll be safe forever while he rules as Corvo the Black.
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Jul 6, 2017 12:43
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The big and immediate difference for me is the opening scene from the point of view of Delilah and co: neutralise and freeze the Royal Protector, toss the silly little girl empress in a room for her later show trial and execution. Whoops, turns out she's a secret assassin and slips out the window and escapes across the rooftops. That all makes sense. Flip that around and Delilah freezes Emily (okay, that makes just as much sense) but then inexplicably orders Corvo - legendary assassin, thief and escape artist - into an ordinary locked room. Unobserved. I'm sure he'll still be there when we unlock the door.
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Jul 11, 2017 10:15
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Doesn't she steal Corvo's mark first, though? Maybe she thought that would be enough to keep him there. edit: though I agree some of the plot points are weird. Delilah has almost the mirror image of your point about Corvo - she's a legendary witch who found her way back to reality after Daud locked her in the Void. So what's the best way to dispose of her non-lethally? Hmm, what if we try locking her in the Void again, maybe this time she'll stay there  If there'd been another non-lethal option I'd probably have taken it but I murdered her purely because it seemed like the safer bet Zephro fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 11:31
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Corvo and Emily don't know about the events of Brigmore Witches though. So they wouldn't know they're trying something that's been done before? But also in Dishonored 2, isn't she locked in the painting world she created, and not the Void itself? I don't know if there's an actual difference between that and Brigmore Witches actually, hmmm.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:54
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n4 posted:Corvo and Emily don't know about the events of Brigmore Witches though. So they wouldn't know they're trying something that's been done before?
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Jul 12, 2017 16:07
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n4 posted:Corvo and Emily don't know about the events of Brigmore Witches though. So they wouldn't know they're trying something that's been done before? They find out that she escaped the void in the course of Dishonored 2 though so you probably would think they'd know not do just try that again.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:08
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I thought the point of the non-lethal ending was that Delilah was locked in a world where she was the center of everything, so she'd likely never even realize it was a trap and thus never try to escape?
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Jul 12, 2017 16:18
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I think they missed an opportunity to let you set the painting on fire when you're done.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:36
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Ornamented Death posted:I thought the point of the non-lethal ending was that Delilah was locked in a world where she was the center of everything, so she'd likely never even realize it was a trap and thus never try to escape? Yea that was my thought as well. That world is also not the Void but created with Delilah's void powers.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:38
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Ornamented Death posted:I thought the point of the non-lethal ending was that Delilah was locked in a world where she was the center of everything, so she'd likely never even realize it was a trap and thus never try to escape? Basing the entire plan around "maybe she won't notice it THIS TIME" is just asking for trouble. The fact she's makes no mention of being knocked out and placed back on her throne is weird. For someone so smart, she's written pretty stupidly.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:40
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I guess there's also the possibility she figures it out, but just doesn't care and sticks with it because hey, she's in a dream world where every desire she has will come true
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Jul 12, 2017 16:47
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poptart_fairy posted:Basing the entire plan around "maybe she won't notice it THIS TIME" is just asking for trouble. Yeah, leaving your enemy alive is obviously a riskier option than killing them, this is true for most nonlethal options in the game. You don't know for a fact that the high overseer will as much as lose his job when you brand him. I mean, there's also the possiblity that she figures it out, but changes her mind about Emily after realizing that she gave her what she wanted instead of just killing her.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:07
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Well, that's the thing, those other non-lethal options haven't been what the victim has broken free of in the past, and come back stronger from. If the High Overseer came back a few years later with enough men, power and munitions to level the city as a result of the brand it'd be different, but 
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Jul 12, 2017 17:11
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Didn't play Brigmore Witches, did you do the skull thing in that too?
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Jul 12, 2017 18:37
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Didn't play Brigmore Witches, did you do the skull thing in that too?
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Jul 12, 2017 18:40
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Casimir Radon posted:No. She paints a picture of Emily intending to enter it and take over her mind. You replace it with a painting of the void. How did she not notice that? She really doesn't deserve her powers, does she?
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Jul 12, 2017 18:49
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:How did she not notice that? She really doesn't deserve her powers, does she? she finishes the painting of emily, then turns around to her altar to conduct the ritual, which takes like 30 seconds. in those 30 seconds you replace the painting while her back's turned, and it only works if you stay undetected the entire time. if she detects your presence she goes aggressive, and to non-lethal her at that point you have to subdue her and complete the ritual for her. entire thing is weird. if i had to think it through though, the primary difference is that the painting of the void, she set up specifically to be a trap painting for someone she hated at some point in the future (she hadn't decided who yet). daud replaces the painting while she's doing a ritual to take over emily's mind and she got hoisted by her own petard, but on a certain level the entire thing didn't make a lot of sense because the two paintings' purposes were entirely unrelated to one another the nonlethal setup in DH2 entirely revolves around confusing delilah on which world is the real world and which one is the void, so she does what she sets out to do in general, she just does it in never-never land instead of some place where it ostensibly matters it's a subtle difference but it seems like an important one. then again 
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Jul 12, 2017 18:54
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Mymla posted:Yeah, leaving your enemy alive is obviously a riskier option than killing them, this is true for most nonlethal options in the game. You don't know for a fact that the high overseer will as much as lose his job when you brand him. It's a very safe assumption that branding Campbell will remove him from the picture. He's widely despised only been able to rise to the position of High Overseer through heavy use of blackmail and visibly stepping on a great many toes, and he's practically flaunting his violation of all the strictures (within the Abbey's own headquarters no less). The Abbey's laws forbid rendering aid to anyone marked with the heretic's brand, so the only way he could survive politically would be if he had a broad base of the support within the Abbey, which he clearly doesn't. Instead, almost to a man they're going to leap at the chance to remove him from the picture, as not only will this allow them to strip him of his office, it will also neutralise his ability to make good on his blackmail threats, as any attempts to do so can be easily dismissed as the ravings of a mad heretic (and people who repeat them could potentially be accused of aiding said heretic). Basically, nobody's going to look the gift horse too hard in the mouth and mount a serious investigation. It's as foolproof a non-lethal removal as you can get. Unlike exposing the Spymaster, branding Campbell doesn't require him to have left a convenient recording, it just requires him to be himself and this procedure to exist.
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Jul 12, 2017 20:43
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There's also the fact that loyalist Overseers are working to unseat Campbell through the exact same means. Dude has pissed a lot of people off, but unlike Corvo they don't just have the option of shanking him.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:12
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Did anyone else just hold F and skip every cutscene in this game because the story is insipid and needlessly convoluted and supported by dumb dialogue
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Jul 21, 2017 15:18
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The dialogue is really weirdly stiff and poorly written, though I got into the story anyway since the environments are so well-done. It really contrasts a lot with Arkane's Prey which had far more natural-sounding dialogue.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:22
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It's definitely stiff and poorly written, but I wouldn't call that weird. It's pretty symptomatic of the games industry as a whole. Here is a game routinely lauded for its atmosphere and world-building, and yet the plot and dialogue are utter poo poo. The characters talk like they're in an 80s action movie and the player is never given a good reason to care about them. Corvo is just another generic Gravelly Voiced Male Protagonist #95273. Oh yes Arkane is soooo progressive for having so many female characters, aside from the fact they're all ticky-tacky. I can't think of a single game with well written dialogue aside from Portal 2 and The Stanley Parable. Half-Life 2's dialogue, even, was just decent, and the storyline was a bit stilted. These games are both kind of "cheating" though, because the protagonist is silent and you are intended to inhabit them. I don't understand why modern games that have millions and millions of dollars poured into them can't afford a single decent writer to create meaningful dialogue and characters.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:50
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Here is a game routinely lauded for its atmosphere and world-building, and yet the plot and dialogue are utter poo poo. The characters talk like they're in an 80s action movie and the player is never given a good reason to care about them. Corvo is just another generic Gravelly Voiced Male Protagonist #95273. Corvo's not even voiced in his game. And if you played him in D2, you were playing the bonus character; Emily's the story protagonist, of course his stuff is kinda cludgy.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:37
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:It's definitely stiff and poorly written, but I wouldn't call that weird. It's pretty symptomatic of the games industry as a whole. Despite Geralt being Gravelly Voiced Male Protagonist #95272 Witcher 3 has very well written dialogue.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:43
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Oh yes Arkane is soooo progressive for having so many female characters, aside from the fact they're all ticky-tacky. I don't think anyone thinks being progressive is just about the quantity of a type of person in a piece of media. But have you played Prey? There are much better female characters in that.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:51
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MikeJF posted:Corvo's not even voiced in his game. And if you played him in D2, you were playing the bonus character; Emily's the story protagonist, of course his stuff is kinda cludgy. Yeah, but because 90% of the dialogue remains unchanged regardless of who you play, it is very carefully written to be extra-generic. And there's a significant lack of interesting characters in D2, even compared to D1. Almost all the major players are recycled from D1 or the Daud DLC.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:53
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n4 posted:I don't think anyone thinks being progressive is just about the quantity of a type of person in a piece of media.  WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Despite Geralt being Gravelly Voiced Male Protagonist #95272 Witcher 3 has very well written dialogue. Games deserve rich characters, with all the passions, emotions, and weaknesses of real people. I'm fine with a silent, unseen protagonist, but if you're gonna have them talk, at least have them be believable.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:00
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hot take: stories should be judged on how many people they speak to and shape rather than some subjective list of check boxes from group-thought up from some self absorbed monoculture i mean don't get me wrong i didn't find DH2's story terribly inspiring either but i've read literally hundreds of books so i've seen pretty much everything at least once. from the perspective of how many people it reached and affected it does fine since most people were like 'oh that was cool & neat' rather than 'meh' Coolguye fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 20:23
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You, my friend, need to take a ride with The Writer Will Do Something. After playing that, I'm just thankful that AAA games are as coherent as they are now.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:33
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Marshal Radisic posted:You, my friend, need to take a ride with The Writer Will Do Something. After playing that, I'm just thankful that AAA games are as coherent as they are now. I've never seen this, but it was amazing
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Jul 21, 2017 21:01
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I don't understand why modern games that have millions and millions of dollars poured into them can't afford a single decent writer to create meaningful dialogue and characters. Well, they gave RA Salvatore a bunch of money for Kingdoms of Amalur. Then again you did say "decent".
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Jul 21, 2017 21:36
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Despite Geralt being Gravelly Voiced Male Protagonist #95272 Witcher 3 has very well written dialogue. For the main quest yeah, but some of the side quests get pretty fuckin awful
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Jul 22, 2017 23:56
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Hannibal Rex posted:Yeah, but because 90% of the dialogue remains unchanged regardless of who you play, it is very carefully written to be extra-generic. And there's a significant lack of interesting characters in D2, even compared to D1. Almost all the major players are recycled from D1 or the Daud DLC. Mindy was pretty rad. A shame they didn't do more with her, though.
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Jul 23, 2017 00:04
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Wafflecopper posted:For the main quest yeah, but some of the side quests get pretty fuckin awful For instance?
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Jul 23, 2017 04:00
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Wafflecopper posted:For the main quest yeah, but some of the side quests get pretty fuckin awful Wrong
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Jul 23, 2017 14:24
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the dialogue in DH2 is nothing special, the storytelling in Dishonored was always more about the worldbuilding and the notes/books you find or the poo poo that you get from the Outsider. I do agree that the overall storylines in Prey are much better, not just with the notes (emails) and texts but also with the characters therein.
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Jul 23, 2017 14:37
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:For instance? idk man i last played that game like a year ago. i just remember cringing at a few of the side quests
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Jul 23, 2017 18:55
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The storytelling is better in Dishonored 1, too. In fact I think it might just be the better game of the two generally.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:21
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