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Bregor posted:I love how after that bullshit bridlesnake puzzle, the screen with the actual key has no boss, puzzle, or even anything else of interest. Solving it is the true spirit of KQ, which is: get as much inventory filler as possible, get stumped on a puzzle, and savescum using every possible item in every possible way until you solve it. Was this not the standard SOP in any adventure game from the early 80's to the late 90's? Which incidentally helped drive nails into the genre's own coffin. When you're a kid with too much free time on you hands the trial and error method really didn't seem to bother me too much though I doubt present day me would be so patient. We should just count ourselves lucky that the puzzles are still as simple as adding item A with item B and getting outcome C instead of some of the truly insane solutions we get to look forward to. Things that make articles like this stay relevant 17 years later..
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Jul 4, 2017 03:27
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Psychotic Weasel posted:When you're a kid with too much free time on you hands the trial and error method really didn't seem to bother me too much though I doubt present day me would be so patient. We should just count ourselves lucky that the puzzles are still as simple as adding item A with item B and getting outcome C instead of some of the truly insane solutions we get to look forward to. Things that make articles like this stay relevant 17 years later.. Iirc, Jansen was forced to put a "Sierra-style" puzzle by a producer after the original one for that section had to be replaced for some reason, but drat the cat-tash is probably the nadir of the series.
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Jul 4, 2017 04:13
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Was this not the standard SOP in any adventure game from the early 80's to the late 90's?
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Jul 4, 2017 05:04
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Was this not the standard SOP in any adventure game from the early 80's to the late 90's? Which incidentally helped drive nails into the genre's own coffin. Haha holy poo poo, cat-stache is literally insane
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Jul 4, 2017 11:57
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Dr. Fetus posted:
I have a bridle. Bridle goes on animals. Therefore I should expect to meet a hostile animal at some point in the future. I will then use the bridle on it. ... There is a snake here. It is an animal. I was expecting something larger, but it's still worth a shot (in the adventure game spirit of 'rub everything on everything'). >Use BRIDLE on SNAKE It's pretty much the first thing I would have tried, but maybe I'm insane.
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Jul 4, 2017 13:05
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What the hell is the logic behind that puzzle? That's just straight up bullshit!
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The Lone Badger posted:It's pretty much the first thing I would have tried, but maybe I'm insane. Really? You would have tried it before trying the sword that has a serpent engraved on it, that does in fact kill the snake, but then locks you out of the poison-immunity sugar cube? Because it's not just that "USE BRIDLE ON SNAKE" makes no goddamn sense, it's that they provided you with a wrong but apparently correct solution that fucks you over later on in the game.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:08
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Really? You would have tried it before trying the sword that has a serpent engraved on it, that does in fact kill the snake, but then locks you out of the poison-immunity sugar cube?
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Jul 4, 2017 15:11
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Anime Reference posted:If you played KQ1 you already know killing stuff is always the wrong puzzle solution. This is EXACTLY why my brother and I figured out this puzzle. We realized that killing the snake was too obvious and goes against the grain of KQ games (based on our experience with KQ1), so we tried non-obvious solutions and quickly found the right item. That bridge though....I will never forgive or try to rationalize that one....I have a high tolerance for bullshit in games, but even I have standards. mauman fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 02:14
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Oh man, I loved the KQ series when I was a kid. My dad got them and my brother and I would gently caress around trying to figure things out when we got a chance. One of the things I remember about the original graphics, at least on the Apple IIc, was when you switched screens they would literally be drawn on the screen as you watched, line by line and then shading in, all in glorious shades of grey. And switching the floppies every four screens - oh man, he memories. Why did I like these games again? Anyway, I love the lp. It's really taking me down memory lane. Looking forward to seeing KQ3 - it's the only one I haven't played so that'll be fascinating. I know the backstory - I have a copy of the fourth edition of the KQ Companion mentioned earlier in the thread. Really looking forward to the gifs! For my money anyway, KQ6 was the apex of the series.
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Jul 5, 2017 02:54
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OK, what's the deal with the bridge? I'm guessing it collapses after N crossings? Keep seeing people rail on it and I haven't had the pleasure of playing this game before. And yeah, KQ6 was probably the greatest. I remember being half-heartedly scolded by my parents for beating the game before my brother did since it was his gift.
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Jul 5, 2017 16:21
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ModEdit: Removed spoiler.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 16:57
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I don't mind discussing stuff about the series, as there is a lot to stare aghast at. But can we please not preemptively reveal things I'm going to show off in the game currently being LPed? Just keep your shirt on. I'll get there before too long. Update coming later today, too.
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Jul 5, 2017 18:28
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 Hello everyone, and welcome back to King's Quest II. We rejoin Graham as the carpet drops him off outside of the antique shop. With two out of three keys accounted for, let's not waste any time. Off to the bridge!  You probably shouldn't approach the bridge from the south side. In my test run for the game, I died probably five or six times alone doing this.  For those of you keeping track at home, this is the fifth crossing of the bridge.  >unlock door  : The key to the second door fits easily into the keyhole. Graham turns the key and, SHAZAM, the door opens, and the second gold key disappears... revealing a third door with yet another inscription! These doors are getting awfully small. >read door : Whosoever chooses to seek the last key must have a stout heart. Six times now. What the game never points out is that the bridge is held up by silly string. The bridge can support Graham's weight seven times in total. Take a wild guess how many times you need to cross it. So yeah, hope you wrote those clues down because you have exactly as many crossings as it takes to do everything perfectly. Sierra caught a lot of poo poo for this, and rightfully so. They also have a sense of humor about it, as every time you have to cross a bridge in future titles of theirs, they call back to this bridge here. We'll be seeing a few instances of that in this thread here.  Screen E4 is the bottom middle edge of the lake. I haven't really shown it off, because until this moment there's been nothing worth showing here.  This is what the screen looked like in the middle of the last update. Anyway, this is the point where you need to be wearing both the ring and cloak from Grandma's house, as well as the silver cross from the monk. >climb in boat : The shrouded ghoul looks at the ruby ring on Graham's finger and the black cloak around his neck. It motions for him to enter the boat, which he does. Graham must have fooled it into think he was someone else. The boat man doesn't care if Graham is wearing the cloak and ring or not. Though wearing them both is a hint that they're important.  >leave boat This screen looks nice and foreboding, doesn't it? The scraggly plants look like they might hurt if they brush past you, so let's be extra careful...  So remember last update when I mentioned that failing to guess the "bridle on a snake" puzzle would make your life harder in the near future? Welcome to exactly why. These thorny bushes are all poisonous, or venomous, or whatever. The point being just one bite, one scratch is sufficient. So how do you get past? There's two options. One is to be extremely specific in how you walk past the brambles, in what I hope wasn't a prototype for Space Quest II's maze of death. The other? quote:
>eat sugar : After swallowing the magic sugar cube, Graham gets a feeling of invincibility.We're now completely immune to poisonous brambles. We can walk as closely to them as we like and we won't so much as slow down.  To the north we come to the castle gates. There's a few ghosts hanging out. : There are two spooky ghosts guarding the door of the gloomy castle. This situation looks bad.And if you approach them.. : The two spirits are fooled by the black cloak and large ruby ring that Graham is wearing. They slowly float away... maybe he reminds them of someone else.Alternatively, if you aren't wearing the ring and cloak... : The two spirits are afraid of the silver cross that Graham is wearing around his neck. They slowly float away and disappear.So as long as you have the ring and cloak, or the cross, you're safe here. The ghosts are one-time guards. But what happens if you aren't wearing any protective equipment and you approach them? : Oh, no! The two spooks float toward Graham and enter his body. In a trance, he walks toward the thorn covered brambles.A beat later... : Graham feels a sudden tingling sensation. Could it be that the effects of the sugar cube have worn off? While it's not unlikely you'll see this death, you do have to somewhat go out of your way to get it. I do like that possessed Graham turns zombie green.  Anyway, back in the world where we didn't die a horrible death...  Welcome to yet another reason why you play with the sound off. Do you know the famous tune, Toccata and Fugue in D-minor? The answer should probably be yes. If you think "generic halloween music" or "generic spooky music" it's the first tune to come to mind. Anyway, imagine that famous piece of organ music, but in "glorious" PCSpeaker. And it's just the opening bit over and over. So yes, for the thousandth time, let me reiterate: do not play this game with sound on. Anyway, we want to go to the left first. Despite the giant bookshelf in the middle looking important, it's just scenery. So let's throw on some more appropriate music and get to investigating.  So, think back to one of the first things I said in this LP. About how Graham moves. He keeps moving until either he collides with a solid object, falls off of something, or you press the same direction in which he's already moving.  Early Sierra games were absolutely lousy with precision movements for some entirely unknowable reason. Mercifully, if you turn off NumLock, you can use the numpad to move Graham around the screen. 7, 9, 1, and 3 can be used to make Graham walk diagonally. There's only a handful of places in the game where it's useful to do so, but it's good to keep in mind regardless. Almost every place where it's useful to walk diagonally is here in the second half of the game.  Anyway, the reason we need to go left first in this castle, is the drawer in this tower has something useful. >open drawer : There is a candle lying in the drawer of the old dresser. Graham picks it up and carries it with himThat's it. That's all we needed from over here. Now we need to walk back down the spiral staircase.  I can't tell you how easy using diagonal movement makes this.   Over to the right, we come across a massive dining room. Graham is not a short man, and the table is taller than he is. >look : This is the dingy dining room of the drafty old castle. Ants crawl among old bits of food. Dust covers a dilapidated table top. A delicious-looking smoked ham is on the table. Graham takes it.We'll need this ham in a while.  Continuing to the right, the light runs out.  It's fully possible to get down these stairs without the benefit of light. It's simply nearly impossible to get back out.  I'm going to leave here for now. Next time, we'll illuminate these stairs and finish our business in the castle. After that, it's to the endgame. List of Points +1 - Crossing the bridge +7 - Unlocking the second door +1 - Crossing the bridge yet again +1 - Graham has a sweet tooth +2 - Getting a candle +2 - Handling the ham Total: 132/185 Register of Deaths Falling into the chasm Poisonous brambles x2 Who needs handrails... or light? x2
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Jul 6, 2017 02:48
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: Thank you, kind sir, for saving me. An evil enchanter turned me into a snake when I refused to be his steed. To repay you, here is a magic sugar cube that will guard against poisonous brambles.
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That last .gif with the dark descent down the stairs is amazing.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:17
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quote:Anyway, imagine that famous piece of organ music, but in "glorious" PCSpeaker. And it's just the opening bit over and over. So yes, for the thousandth time, let me reiterate: do not play this game with sound on. If you enter the castle entrance screen with sound on, you actually get to hear a brief PC Speaker version of Michael Jackson's "Thriller".
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Jul 6, 2017 13:00
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The sound isn't too bad in Tandy mode, if whatever setup you're using supports that. Standard PC speaker is pretty bad.
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Jul 6, 2017 18:25
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Tandy computers had a "3 voice" sound chip capable of doing decent midi playback, that's why. The tradeoff is that you had to deal with their "Not-EGA" Tandy graphics that not everyone supported.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:05
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Erpy posted:If you enter the castle entrance screen with sound on, you actually get to hear a brief PC Speaker version of Michael Jackson's "Thriller". You can hear it - and then Toccata and Fugue in D Minor - starting at 18:19 of this video (spoilers if you keep going from there, obviously): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jjUaeG9YTw&t=1099s Sadly, neither Thriller nor Toccata and Fugue in D Minor are present in the remake. ulmont fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 19:26
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I can just imagine having no sugar, inching past those brambles, and then not scaring off the ghost. You'd probably throw something out the window.
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Jul 7, 2017 04:02
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ulmont posted:Sadly, neither Thriller nor Toccata and Fugue in D Minor are present in the remake. Probably because that section was intended to have a rather tense atmosphere and a Thriller remix suddenly being thrown at the player out of nowhere would have felt extremely jarring.
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Jul 7, 2017 07:35
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spoilers: graham dies
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Jul 7, 2017 08:22
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Erpy posted:Probably because that section was intended to have a rather tense atmosphere and a Thriller remix suddenly being thrown at the player out of nowhere would have felt extremely jarring. And I suspect the other reason is between the original release and remake, Michael Jackson had been more judicious in telling people to stop using his music without permission.
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Jul 7, 2017 16:31
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I didn't even know that was supposed to be Thriller until I heard the Tandy version.
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Jul 7, 2017 17:36
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 Hello everyone, and welcome back to King's Quest II. Let's just restore our game and not descend into a pitch black maze of stairs.  We need to leave the dining room to the north first. This particular part coming up is a bit of a pain in the rear end to do.  You see, we need to climb this staircase here. But not all the way. We need to go halfway up.  To about here. Next we need to do something not immediately obvious. >look torch : The torch lends the only warmth to this dreary castle.>light candle : Graham holds his candle up to the blazing torch. It catches! His candle is now lit.This is the only lit torch that's at approximately Graham's height. So in order to light our candle, we need to stand next to it. The reason I say this part is a pain in the rear end is because climbing twisting staircases in this series is a hazardous thing to do even in the best of times. We need to successfully climb up to the torch, light the candle, descend down again, and complete our business in the basement. Only once we finish our business donwstairs can we climb to the room at the top of this staircase So, back into the dark basement...  The candle projects its light rather well, doesn't it? Don't get used to it. There will be a time in the not too distant future when a light source won't illuminate anything for poo poo.  This screen is why I restored the game at the start of the update. There's almost no chance anyone could get out of this screen in the pitch black, with only Graham's eyes to guide them. >look : Narrow, slippery stairs descend into this empty room. Graham's nose detects a foul odor coming from the doorway to the west.>look rat : Graham doesn't see a rat, but he hears scurrying sounds coming from the cracks in the wall. : The rat darts nervously across the floor. This little creepy room is our ultimate goal. If the coffin is open, we want to leave the room and return.  First, let's do something completely stupid. >take off cross >open coffin : With trepidation, Graham lifts the heavy lid of the beautifully carved coffin. His heart beats wildly when he sees a vampire lying asleep within it. It must be Count Dracula!>wake dracula : That was truly a dumb thing to do! Run before he catches you! So let's do it the right way now. This is one of the only aggressive things Graham will ever do in his life, by the way.  : Graham places the pointed stake on Count Dracula's chest. Quickly, using the mallet, he pounds the stake through the vampire's heart. Dracula disintegrates into a pile of dust. A small silver key is left behind in the coffin. Graham takes it.>look coffin : Trembling with fear, Graham peers into the ornate coffin. Finding it unoccupied, Graham sees the interior is lined with shiny red satin. A red satin pillow lies at one end.>get pillow : Graham removes the shiny red pillow from the coffin. Lo and behold, a large gold key was under the pillow!While we're here, let's take a look at the new inventory items we got.  : The wax candle burns brightly. Ouch! Hot wax dripped on your finger. : It is a shiny silver key. : The smoked ham has a wonderful, savory smell. It's hard to resist tasting it. It looks as though someone has taken a bit out of it. : The pillow is small, and made of shiny red satin.As usual, the gold key looks the same as it ever does and its description hasn't changed.  So let's keep going. Now back to that spiral staircase from the start of the update.  For some reason, the perspective in these spiral staircase rooms makes it really hard to actually get on the stairs. You wouldn't think it would be so difficult, and then you wind up accidentally walking out the door three or four times.  You can't even diagonal walk up the part of the staircase that may as well be 2D. There's still depth where there shouldn't be any. So you have to awkwardly stutter step the whole way.   So finally in the room at the top of the stairs, and all that's up here is a chest in the corner. >open chest : The old chest is locked shut. You need to unlock it.>unlock chest : With hands trembling, Graham fits the little silver key into the lock. Slowly, he turns it until he hears a click. The old chest is now unlocked.>open chest >look in chest Yes. You have to type the two commands separately. : With a creak and a groan, the old lid opens, dragging cobwebs with it. Looking into the interior of the musty chest, Graham sees a dazzling diamond and sapphire tiara. He takes it. : This tiara is stunning! It is encrusted with diamonds from the back to the front, progressively getting larger. The center stone in the front is a dazzling sapphire. : Okay, that does it. When I get back to Daventry, I'm gonna see about annexing Kolyma. We need those diamond and sapphire mines. Let's get the hell out of here. We have a ham, we have enough jewelry to start a collection, and we have a completely useless pillow. Most importantly though, we can unlock the last door and get to the end of the game. >enter boat : Graham climbs into the decrepit rowboat, and the shrouded fiend paddles across the toxic lake to the shore. See you guys at the bridge!  Here we are at the bridge for the final time.  That's it. No fanfare, no dramatic collapse. But we've used up all of our crossings. But try to go across an eighth time and...   So let's unlock the third door and get our reward. >unlock door : The key to the third door fits easily into the keyhole. Graham turns the key and, PRESTO, the door opens, and again the key disappears... revealing a world unlike any he's ever seen before! And THAT is where we're going to leave off for this time. NEXT TIME: The end of the game List of Points +1 - Lighting the Candle +7 - Graham Belmont +2 - Dracula's silver key +5 - Third gold key +1 - Unlocking the old chest +7 - Yet more gaudy jewelry +1 - Crossing the bridge the seventh time +7 - Entering the third door Total: 163/185 Register of Deaths Fangs for waking Dracula up Falling off the stairs x2 Crossing the bridge an eighth time DoubleNegative fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 20:45
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Can you get all the gold keys before crossing the bridge or it is only one gold key at a time?
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Jul 7, 2017 21:11
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I haven't played this since I was a kid, but I'd bet money that you can't get a key without first reading the relevant clue. The mermaid, boatman, and uh, bird? won't show up until you do.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:15
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Walrus Pete posted:I haven't played this since I was a kid, but I'd bet money that you can't get a key without first reading the relevant clue. The mermaid, boatman, and uh, bird? won't show up until you do. Lame.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:17
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Dracula what are you doing here? You're a long way from Transylvania. (I was expecting a vampire the moment Graham found that wooden stake in the woods, but I wasn't expecting the vampire, the Count himself.)
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Jul 7, 2017 21:36
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DoubleNegative posted:There will be a time in the not too distant future when a light source won't illuminate anything for poo poo. I assure you that not being able to see four feet in front of you is NOT the worst part of that sequence, if we're thinking of the same four screens.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:42
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That video someone posted elsewhere had the candle being able to be lit by the sconce on the same stairwell from where you got it. Having to look again for the pillow seems like an obvious trap, though I guess you can't advance too far w/o that gold key.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:12
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How long do you have before the candle burns out?
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Jul 8, 2017 00:12
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That's a pretty good realization of a strange world with the color palette available at the time.
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Jul 8, 2017 02:51
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It's been 10 or 15 years since the last time I played King's Quest II. It was always my least favorite in the series, since it was basically a retread of King's Quest I without any plot to speak of. I think it's interesting, though, just how good this game looks. It's so bright and colorful, it practically oozes charm... It actually blows my mind that these kinds of graphics are in style again after all these years. I'm not displeased about it though. As an aside, I helped beta test King's Quest II VGA by AGDI. There are a lot of things about that version of the game that I liked. I'm not as down on it as some of the folks in this thread are. Bit off topic, but the one thing I really disliked about it happened right about here. That game expands the narrative considerably to explain *why* Red Riding Hood's grandmother happened to have Dracula's cape and ring. Turns out in his previous life, the vampire was a good and noble human count, not to mention a family man. But the local monastic order (of werewolves) didn't like him because he advocated for the separation of church and state... So they sicced a vampire bat on him to do him in. I didn't care much for dragging hot-button terminology like "separation of church and state" into the game, but other than that, I thought it was a pretty clever twist. Vampires versus werewolves was a neat angle to expand the complexity of the narrative, and it all tied in quite nicely with the wolf from the Red Riding Hood myth. Unfortunately, AGDI really screwed the pooch. The plot developed further with the Count rushing off to bite Red Riding Hood, his own granddaughter, in order to turn *her* into a vampire... in order to grant her immortality and keep her safe from the werewolves, I guess? It didn't make a lot of sense. The *really* uncomfortable thing was that after Red Riding Hood got turned into a vampire for no reason, AGDI decided she needed to get aged-up, also for no reason... from an eight-year-old girl into a voluptuous adult woman... with a smoking hot body... and *very* generous breasts... The whole idea of that happening to a little girl was disturbing to me, and the gratuitousness of it really weirded me out.
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Jul 8, 2017 03:57
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Also...DoubleNegative posted:The candle projects its light rather well, doesn't it? Don't get used to it. There will be a time in the not too distant future when a light source won't illuminate anything for poo poo. He's not trolling. 
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Jul 8, 2017 04:03
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After seeing this, the box art makes a lot more sense Just a multi-door hanging in the air, yep.
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Jul 8, 2017 04:19
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Bloops Crusts posted:stuff Pretty much everything about that whole section came off as a twilight fan-fic to me. In other words....really really cringe worthy.
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Jul 8, 2017 08:33
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mauman posted:Pretty much everything about that whole section came off as a twilight fan-fic to me. Yeah holy poo poo that sounds atrocious.
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Jul 8, 2017 09:06
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DoubleNegative posted:
The real-life Kolyma is/was actually known for its gold mines!  Specifically, the ones being worked by inmates in several of the many forced labor camps in the area. 
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Jul 8, 2017 11:15
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mauman posted:Pretty much everything about that whole section came off as a twilight fan-fic to me. I never read/watched Twilight and barely know the first thing about it. So in my blissful ignorance, I think werewolves and vampires can be cool. (Also, the VGA remake came out in 2002. I don't think Twilight came out until several years after that. There isn't any connection there.) Respectfully, I'm still in awe of AGDI and what they did for those games. They were passionate about the series, they put together a small team of artists and writers and musicians and programmers who were happy to work for free, they made a good pitch to Vivendi Universal's lawyers that allowed them to evade the cease and desist, they put out a finished product that was polished and didn't have any of the moon logic and dead ends the adventure game genre is infamous for, they even went the extra mile and put out a speech pack for it (which mostly sucked, but still!) ...Yeah, I just don't get any joy out of mocking them. King's Quest II EGA is a game without characters or a story. Anything they did to paint in the blanks was going to be "fanficcy," and they had to do something. I have more of an issue with some of the liberties they took with their King's Quest III VGA remake. Because that game actually *did* have a story -- it's the second-most beloved game in the entire series after KQ6 for a lot of people, including me -- and they injected their plot contrivances right into it. Didn't like that.
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Jul 8, 2017 14:22
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| # ? May 9, 2024 22:37 |
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how is king graham going to take his bride back across the bridge
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Jul 8, 2017 14:55
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