Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

For the very first shop as a dsfi, I'd value dedicated shops with potions and scrolls much higher than normal. DS have that slow start, and possible monstrous mutation sets. Those consumables can help with ID and survival, saving money on potion petition. I still might prefer an armor, jewellery, or weapon shop, but only if it isn't antique and a third level of gambling. By the time the second shop is available, I'm probably (over?) confident enough in my survival (especially with a shield) that my thoughts are more or less inline with other goons, and also willing to gamble on antiques.

Once I'm a good ways through lair, I stop buying shops as long as I have some confidence to clear the mines. It doesn't hurt that an ice cave or a volcano often shows up and I can afford to use resistance, berserk, etc potions.

# ? Jul 4, 2017 17:58

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# ? May 31, 2024 01:36

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

LordSloth posted:

For the very first shop as a dsfi, I'd value dedicated shops with potions and scrolls much higher than normal. DS have that slow start, and possible monstrous mutation sets. Those consumables can help with ID and survival, saving money on potion petition. I still might prefer an armor, jewellery, or weapon shop, but only if it isn't antique and a third level of gambling. By the time the second shop is available, I'm probably (over?) confident enough in my survival (especially with a shield) that my thoughts are more or less inline with other goons, and also willing to gamble on antiques.

Once I'm a good ways through lair, I stop buying shops as long as I have some confidence to clear the mines. It doesn't hurt that an ice cave or a volcano often shows up and I can afford to use resistance, berserk, etc potions.

Yeah I just started lair and I'm still using my starting war axe (swapping with a morningstar of draining for hydra fighting).

# ? Jul 4, 2017 18:48

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Got my first stabber win (SpAs of Dith), spriggan are so forgiving of mistakes with this much stealth it's insane. Literally just walking away from poo poo and looping back to stab it once it forgot. Although even with 27 stealth getting stabs on wandering dudes was kinda rare, I leaned on hexes a LOT, mostly confuse, since I found out it has a better success rate than hibernation not to mention all the poo poo that just can't be hibernated. Tukima's dance saw some use in orc but it was mostly a confuse spam game, later bringing in Silence for elves and liches which felt AMAZING. No spells for you! Got lucky finding a +8 quickblade of pain randart in a shop on Orc:2, I was kinda wary of grabbing it because I would need to put some skill in Necromancy but it was worth it and took me through most of the game. It petered out quite hard in Zot though, where even with a ton of buff pots I was struggling to kill orb guardians / ancient liches and just straight up could not fight orbs of fire. I had a bunch of enchant scrolls and some other quickblades I could have maxed but neither had a brand and I found literally zero brand weapon scrolls. Should I have looked for a rapier with a brand? In the end I almost ran out of consumables and had to just drag some orbs of fire to zot:4 just to get them out of the way so I could run in to grab the orb.

I did get to use Discord though, which I was kind of leery of but it turns out it's a really good spell, I used it to demolish vaults 5 (well sort of - I did end up not killing a bunch of spooky things like titans and golden dragons there). It also was great for draconians in zot, and even saved my rear end on Zot:5 where I used it with vuln scrolls to kill some big groups of orb guardians, including the entrance to the final vault where a VERY scary ghost was waiting for me, (legendary DsFE with firestorm), almost had a heart attack seeing that one. He ended up discorded though and didn't cast a single spell thank god. I was quite amazed to have made it through, it was starting to feel hopeless since without vuln scrolls I couldn't really do poo poo vs the stuff on the final floor.

# ? Jul 5, 2017 02:22

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Indecisive posted:

Although even with 27 stealth getting stabs on wandering dudes was kinda rare, I leaned on hexes a LOT, mostly confuse, since I found out it has a better success rate than hibernation not to mention all the poo poo that just can't be hibernated.

That's how stabbers go. Stealth alone isn't very good for stabs past Lair or so.

Indecisive posted:

It petered out quite hard in Zot though, where even with a ton of buff pots I was struggling to kill orb guardians / ancient liches and just straight up could not fight orbs of fire. I had a bunch of enchant scrolls and some other quickblades I could have maxed but neither had a brand and I found literally zero brand weapon scrolls. Should I have looked for a rapier with a brand? In the end I almost ran out of consumables and had to just drag some orbs of fire to zot:4 just to get them out of the way so I could run in to grab the orb.

If you have lovely weapon luck(and 'no backup weapon for rN enemies when using a pain quickblade' counts, imo), it's worth it to grab a damage spell or two. Even something as basic as Iron Shot can get you through Zot. You can also branch out into evocables, which is usually the more attractive option for a Spriggan.

# ? Jul 5, 2017 02:30

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Haifisch posted:

That's how stabbers go. Stealth alone isn't very good for stabs past Lair or so.

Hey that's not entirely true, almost half my kills were sleep-stabs, I just meant that once they're awake and wandering around but don't see you yet. Which of course is almost everything in actually difficult areas. Dith is definitely important for getting close enough to stab before stuff wakes up though, but the rest of his kit seems pretty lackluster. I'm sure the shadow attacks are better if you aren't swinging a butterknife though.

# ? Jul 5, 2017 04:23

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Stabbing is good when you can pull it off but you always need a backup plan, especially in a 15 rune game. It sure is satisfying those few times you actually manage to sneak up on a Pan lord though.

# ? Jul 5, 2017 04:26

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Man Mara is a stone cold killer. Totally blew up a good run I had going. Thats what I get for going to Elf:3

# ? Jul 5, 2017 08:00

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

vulturesrow posted:

Man Mara is a stone cold killer. Totally blew up a good run I had going. Thats what I get for going to Elf:3

I've splatted so many half decent characters in Elf at this point that I am drat near infallible for knowing when I'm strong enough to go in or not (hint: not usually). The only time there's any question is if my gear has been totally poo poo and I feel like poking my head into the first two floors and maybe, just maybe, being a weiner and slowly pulling the Elf 3 end vault. What's kinda cool is that sometimes the enemies will have picked up the weapons/jewelry that you want so you can gradually get more powerful as you murder and loot them one by one. The earth elementalists are the only ones that strike total fear into me at this point due to their hidey hole destroying and familiar spawning.

# ? Jul 5, 2017 14:20

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

FulsomFrank posted:

I've splatted so many half decent characters in Elf at this point that I am drat near infallible for knowing when I'm strong enough to go in or not (hint: not usually). The only time there's any question is if my gear has been totally poo poo and I feel like poking my head into the first two floors and maybe, just maybe, being a weiner and slowly pulling the Elf 3 end vault. What's kinda cool is that sometimes the enemies will have picked up the weapons/jewelry that you want so you can gradually get more powerful as you murder and loot them one by one. The earth elementalists are the only ones that strike total fear into me at this point due to their hidey hole destroying and familiar spawning.

The character I had mowed through the first two floors. I just got overconfident against Mara and didn't beat feet when I should have.

# ? Jul 5, 2017 16:42

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Dithmenos will also mimic hexes which is great if you've gone hexes, and the umbra benefits summoned allies. If you've gone magic-less Assassin I highly recommend a short blades/long blades combo as well as Evocations. Many of the dragons in Zot are fairly susceptible to resistable wands, and Sacks of Spiders or other sorts of summons are a huge help against orbs of fire. Distraction stabs are kind of weak, but they're a hell of a lot better than soloing that OoF. Training Evocations pretty heavily made life so much simpler for Zot (I still used the potions of course).

My first impression of shadow form is as invisibility replacement, but it weighs in too heavily at 10-15 piety for that. It IS however a pretty good tool for when everything goes horribly wrong after a shadow step (and it will). You gain torment immunity, rRot, rN+++, immunity to poison and hostile enchantments, and 50% damage reduction, (and invis of course) in exchange for the fairly significant downsides. If you can't extract after that, wouldn't have had a chance anyways.

# ? Jul 5, 2017 18:15

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Distraction stabs are a lot better if you have decent stealth and shortblades investment. The damage and more importantly chance for stabbing depends on them. Even the reduced stab multiplier is usually enough to kill most enemies in 1-2 stabs. If you just have bare minimum shortblades they are a lot less impressive.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 06:49

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Darox posted:

Distraction stabs are a lot better if you have decent stealth and shortblades investment. The damage and more importantly chance for stabbing depends on them. Even the reduced stab multiplier is usually enough to kill most enemies in 1-2 stabs. If you just have bare minimum shortblades they are a lot less impressive.

How many levels would you consider "decent?"

# ? Jul 6, 2017 08:48

Bob NewSCART: Feb 1, 2012; Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

I remember someone giving me a hand with the proper syntax for muting poo poo like x hits you but does no damage, closely miss etc in the RC file a while ago but I can't remember what the proper syntax is.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 09:08

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

vulturesrow posted:

How many levels would you consider "decent?"

18+

You wouldn't expect an axe or mace to kill an OOF easily with 14 skill, you shouldn't expect it from a shortblade.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 09:15

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Darox posted:

18+

You wouldn't expect an axe or mace to kill an OOF easily with 14 skill, you shouldn't expect it from a shortblade.

This is a good strategy if you are VS, have an awesome quick blade, decent summons, or tons of slaying. And if you are Trog or have a ton of might it's not a horrible idea. Otherwise, you are usually better off getting long blades to 14-16 than getting short blades to 18+.

Maybe if you have good sb apts compared to stealth and lb it would be worth it as well. However, at 20-25 dex an average skill of 13-16 is sufficient to max damage with a dagger and one-shot most sleeping enemies with another weapon, given a decent amount of slaying. In any situation where it matters it's worth it to spend a turn swapping to a dagger and in most cases it's not necessary.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 14:43

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

If you don't have decent summons or hexes you won't get many distraction stab chances in the first place so it's a moot point.

Using the longblades cross training is fine for someone who is mostly a longblade fighter that takes some free sleep stabs but if you're going in on shortblades you can't just get mindelay and call it done. Also 20-25 dex is a lot of dex for most characters, unless you find a good stat artifact going that dex heavy probably means your str is garbage and makes a long blade switch less appealing anyway.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 15:05

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Araganzar posted:

Maybe if you have good sb apts compared to stealth and lb it would be worth it as well. However, at 20-25 dex an average skill of 13-16 is sufficient to max damage with a dagger and one-shot most sleeping enemies with another weapon,

Yes but distraction and confusion stabs are a sixth and a quarter as effective, respective to sleep stabs.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 15:10

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Along the current lines of discussion, how _do_ you get an As going? I get stabby enchanter, I don't get non magically enhanced stabbers, especially early on. I can make it Lair but then I fell woefully underpowered.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 15:16

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

LordSloth posted:

Yes but distraction and confusion stabs are a sixth and a quarter as effective, respective to sleep stabs.

The increase from skill comes as bonus damage before the multiple is applied, so the maximum benefit you can get from skill remains the same regardless of the type of stab.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 15:27

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

vulturesrow posted:

Along the current lines of discussion, how _do_ you get an As going? I get stabby enchanter, I don't get non magically enhanced stabbers, especially early on. I can make it Lair but then I fell woefully underpowered.

Nobody gets non-magically enhanced stabbers. They don't tend to make it much past lair.

If you don't find hexes or invis early, train up your long sword. Try Hep, Gozag, or Trog for support and distraction. Ru is also a decent carry god as long as you are willing to pick some severe sacrifices early.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 15:32

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Ironically, I'm horrible at Enchanters, but I've ascended a couple of Assassins. I'm really really bad at enchanters. I've also done some weird stabby formicids during the tournament that have a much lower dex. I should write about those guys at some time, it was pretty amusing.

Having a higher skill may or may not increase your stab output significantly depending on your dexterity and the stepdown/cap. However, my point was that having only mindelay on shortblades is much less likely to one-shot during a distraction stab. The original post was about a spriggan with magic, so my advice is significantly less relevant though it has some overlap. Spriggans not only have access to spells that produce much better stabs, they also have dexterity that is magnitudes better than what I'm usually dealing with.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 17:26

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

LordSloth posted:

Ironically, I'm horrible at Enchanters, but I've ascended a couple of Assassins. I'm really really bad at enchanters. I've also done some weird stabby formicids during the tournament that have a much lower dex. I should write about those guys at some time, it was pretty amusing.

Having a higher skill may or may not increase your stab output significantly depending on your dexterity and the stepdown/cap. However, my point was that having only mindelay on shortblades is much less likely to one-shot during a distraction stab. The original post was about a spriggan with magic, so my advice is significantly less relevant though it has some overlap. Spriggans not only have access to spells that produce much better stabs, they also have dexterity that is magnitudes better than what I'm usually dealing with.

Teach me your ways

# ? Jul 6, 2017 21:08

Toadsmash: Jun 10, 2009; Dave Tate's downsy face approves.

Xom is basically saying give in to the RNG and laugh along with him at it. I need to play with him more often. The number of laugh out loud moments I get at his interventions is glorious.

# ? Jul 6, 2017 22:01

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

I remember a time when I thought executioners were the scariest things in the game, just now I used one as a harmless meatshield buffer between my Demigod Lich and Gloorx Vloq while I fired portal projectiles from my artefact triple bow. Walked away from that pandemonium lord battle at pretty much full health, no consumables used.

I think I may have finally broken the game. Staff of Energy/Lich form, Infestation, Haunt and Shadow creatures, decent armour, a nice battleaxe and crossbow, works pretty nice.

Now for yasd in 5, 4...

# ? Jul 7, 2017 00:44

Mr. Prokosch: Feb 14, 2012; Behold My Magnificence!

Goffer posted:

I think I may have finally broken the game....Infestation...

Yep! Infestation is fantastic forever and once you have it you're well on the way to a 15 rune. Devs will surely cut it soon because it works and is fun.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 02:48

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

My theory about the Moon Troll wizlab confirmed:

code:

araganzar: so there must have been 2 moon trolls
araganzar: since the one left is wearing the other's skin
araganzar: probably an interesting story behind that
gammafunk: the male moon troll eats the female after mating
araganzar: it puts the potion in the basket
gammafunk: it's the opposite of praying mantises
araganzar: makes sense, so the player is a monster killing the last pregnant male moon troll
LordSloth: i'll have you know the moon landing was faked by big troll
araganzar: thats what the moon trolls want you to think
gammafunk: pretty much what everyone is saying about moon trolls is true
araganzar: Trump was at 30% in the polls before he met with the moon trolls
gammafunk: the only thing people don't want to talk about is the Metroid crossover

# ? Jul 7, 2017 03:51

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

Okay I have to stop doing labyrinths as a DE. I am always too squishy somehow. This minotaur hit me with 3 stones, literally 3 stones, and killed me.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 04:55

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Three stones are a lot of stones.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 05:06

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

that's because each kind of monster has their own set "base damage", which is usually the majority of the damage done by dangerous monsters.

if I remember correctly minotaurs have 35 base damage(about the same as orc warlord and vault warden). weapon damage gets added on top of that, which means a thrown stone, which only has 2 base damage in the hands of a player, is essentially rolling 1d37 damage(it's actually slightly more complicated than that but that's close enough to understand what's going on).

it's the same reason an orc warlord is more dangerous with a spear than a great mace-low weapon base damage doesn't matter much when you already have good innate base damage, but speed and range will do wonders.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 05:08

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

SKULL.GIF posted:

Three stones are a lot of stones.

Yeah after the first one I tried to run, but there was basically no way to avoid him, maybe if I'd chugged some agility pots.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 05:22

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Finally have another good MuFE of Sif going but I have to put it aside for a few days, feel free to give any suggestions of stuff I should do or predictions of how I will die. Finished with Lair and Orc (mostly) and D:14, so spider/shoals are up (spider first probably). Got nothing particularly good sitting in shops atm, I'd like to upgrade to a slightly beefier armor but robe is it for now I guess unless I go troll leather armor. Offense spells are in a pretty good spot so far, but I gotta start dumping into the exp vortex that is gonna be conj/fire for a long rear end time to get firestorm eventually. Alternatively I could start on air, I already have a book of the sky to get deflect missiles / potentially tornado, but given mummies crappy apts its probably not a good idea to split train too much.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 05:31

Anias: Jun 3, 2010; It really is a lovely hat

IronicDongz posted:

it's the same reason an orc warlord is more dangerous with a spear than a great mace-low weapon base damage doesn't matter much when you already have good innate base damage, but speed and range will do wonders.

I hadn't put this piece together (still less than 100 games of crawl in .20) so thanks for explaining some of my dumb splats.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 06:11

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Araganzar posted:

My theory about the Moon Troll wizlab confirmed:

code:

araganzar: so there must have been 2 moon trolls
araganzar: since the one left is wearing the other's skin
araganzar: probably an interesting story behind that
gammafunk: the male moon troll eats the female after mating
araganzar: it puts the potion in the basket
gammafunk: it's the opposite of praying mantises
araganzar: makes sense, so the player is a monster killing the last pregnant male moon troll
LordSloth: i'll have you know the moon landing was faked by big troll
araganzar: thats what the moon trolls want you to think
gammafunk: pretty much what everyone is saying about moon trolls is true
araganzar: Trump was at 30% in the polls before he met with the moon trolls
gammafunk: the only thing people don't want to talk about is the Metroid crossover

Well if the male kills the female after mating that would explain why they went extinct. Idiots.

This is one of the best wizlabs to get though cause the moon troll armour is amazing.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 06:38

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

Mr. Prokosch posted:

Yep! Infestation is fantastic forever and once you have it you're well on the way to a 15 rune. Devs will surely cut it soon because it works and is fun.

drat right, worked really well everywhere - between Infestation and Control Undead, I only had to retreat up the stairs twice, and only on the final level. If anything the scarabs are a little too durable, they hang around a nice long time after the spell is cast so you can easily have 10-15 of them when the level are nice and open.

https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/Geoffrax/morgue-Geoffrax-20170707-085907.txt

code:

9790727 Geoffrax the Conqueror (level 27, 281/281 HPs)
             Began as a Demigod Hunter on July 1, 2017.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on July 7, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 16:06:03 (177043 turns).

Geoffrax the Conqueror (Demigod Hunter)           Turns: 177043, Time: 16:06:03

Health: 281/281    AC: 45    Str: 34    XL:     27
Magic:  64/64      EV: 32    Int: 24    God:    
Gold:   19706      SH:  0    Dex: 19    Spells: 1/70 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   a - +11 battleaxe "Igoamam" {chop, MP+9}
rCold    + + +     Gourm    .   (shield currently unavailable)
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   p - +9 ice dragon scales
rPois    &#8734;         Spirit   .   P - +1 helmet "Ylogism" {*Corrode Str+2 Int+8 Stlth+}
rElec    .         Reflect  .   B - scarf "Lien" {rF+ rN+ Regen+ Stlth+}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   Z - +2 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
MR       +++..                  N - +1 pair of boots of the King of the Hill {rF+ Str+4}
Stlth    ++........             I - amulet of magic regeneration
HPRegen  0.96/turn              q - ring "Naawamec" {Fire rPois rN+ Str+3 Int-3 SInv}
MPRegen  0.64/turn              t - ring "Achin" {+Fly rPois rF+++ rC+ Int-4}

Hand Weapons
 a - the +11 battleaxe "Igoamam" (weapon) {chop, MP+9}
 W - the +7 triple crossbow "Hulk" {freeze, +Inv Int+6 Dex-3}

Vanquished Creatures
  Cerebov (Pan)
  Gloorx Vloq (Pan)
  A seraph (Pan)
  Lom Lobon (Pan)
  Mnoleg (Pan)
  Antaeus (Coc:7)
  Asmodeus (Geh:7)
  Dispater (Dis:7)
  Ereshkigal (Tar:7)
  the Serpent of Hell (Geh:7)

My first 15 rune! Found both my battleaxe and triple crossbow on Lair 6, didn't find a better weapon all game. Never saw an executioner's axe, and only got maybe 3 or 4 acquirement scrolls ever. I did spend a lot of time looking for a necronomicon which I eventually found in the Abyss, which was a bit of a relief - otherwise I would have had to do statue form or just call it quits early. Out of everything the scariest moment was right at the end clearing the Orb chambers, a moth of wrath bezerked some orb guardians and I was way overconfident, and ended up having to run away really close to death and finding out that controlled blink doesn't work on that level, right then at 25hp (thinking about it I did have Death's Door but i never used it because I completely forgot it was there).

Does it always feel so bittersweet to ascend? I felt like I could have done something ridiculous with this guy, trained everything up to 27, beaten some Zigs, but I haven't been in there yet and I didn't want to lose this. I had two other Demigods that made it up to pandemonium, but I lost one to Gloorx Vloq and the other to a dumb mistake in the Holy Pandemonium level, so this is a nice success at least.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 10:35

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Any advice on playing Dg? I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of playing them and letting what I find shape where I put my XP but on the other hand, the race just seems really boring..

# ? Jul 7, 2017 10:59

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Play them like a stronger human that's going godless. Stats are amazing but you are at the mercy of random floor drops so picking a class that can manage much of the game with what you start with is recommended. That's sort of why many people play them as Transmuters.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 12:54

Chakan: Mar 30, 2011

Knowledge bots suggests DgWn.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 13:24

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Reavers and Crusaders look surprisingly hard to win, I would stay away from those:

code:

!lg * dg won s=class 
108x Wanderer, 104x Conjurer, 96x Fire Elementalist, 82x Fighter, 74x Earth Elementalist, 
71x Transmuter, 66x Air Elementalist, 65x Wizard, 65x Gladiator, 56x Ice Elementalist, 
54x Necromancer, 41x Skald, 38x Venom Mage, 34x Artificer, 30x Hunter, 29x Warper, 
29x Arcane Marksman, 28x Enchanter, 26x Summoner, 25x Assassin, 24x Monk, 10x Reaver, 
7x Crusader, 6x Death Kni...

And it should be noted while quite a few players TRIED Transmuters and Wanderers in the last tournament....

quote:

!lg * dg t0.20 s=class
beem: 993 games for * (dg t0.20): 140x Transmuter, 131x Wanderer, 100x Fighter, 81x Fire Elementalist, 75x Earth Elementalist, 70x Skald, 69x Conjurer, 65x Air Elementalist, 57x Gladiator, 39x Summoner, 24x Ice Elementalist, 23x Assassin, 20x Necromancer, 19x Enchanter, 18x Hunter, 17x Artificer, 14x Venom Mage, 13x Wizard, 11x Warper, 7x Arcane Marksman

...only 3 of them won, and they were all Wanderers.

quote:

!lg * dg t0.20 won s=class
27 games for * (dg t0.20 won): 5x Earth Elementalist, 4x Air Elementalist, 3x Wanderer, 3x Fighter, 2x Skald, 2x Fire Elementalist, Venom Mage, Summoner, Necromancer, Ice Elementalist, Gladiator, Conjurer, Artificer, Warper

In general, they seem to fare best as beefy casters.

Araganzar fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jul 7, 2017

# ? Jul 7, 2017 15:13

Toadsmash: Jun 10, 2009; Dave Tate's downsy face approves.

I'm not sure blowing up the whole ring of wardens at the center of Vault 5 with one Disaster Area cast when you first enter will ever get old.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 15:36

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# ? May 31, 2024 01:36

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

Araganzar posted:

Reavers and Crusaders look surprisingly hard to win, I would stay away from those:
code:
!lg * dg won s=class 
108x Wanderer, 104x Conjurer, 96x Fire Elementalist, 82x Fighter, 74x Earth Elementalist, 
71x Transmuter, 66x Air Elementalist, 65x Wizard, 65x Gladiator, 56x Ice Elementalist, 
54x Necromancer, 41x Skald, 38x Venom Mage, 34x Artificer, 30x Hunter, 29x Warper, 
29x Arcane Marksman, 28x Enchanter, 26x Summoner, 25x Assassin, 24x Monk, 10x Reaver, 
7x Crusader, 6x Death Kni...
And it should be noted while quite a few players TRIED Transmuters and Wanderers in the last tournament....

...only 3 of them won, and they were all Wanderers.

In general, they seem to fare best as beefy casters.

It was possible to play as a DgDK?

# ? Jul 7, 2017 17:11

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