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Probably a repeat, but it bugs me out that New Vegas cut out the most logical ending option, where you gently caress off after delivering the chip because you're expressly a Courier who has been pretty much everywhere in the US, this job was just one of many jobs you did, and there's hardly much keeping you here anyway. poo poo, this is brought up in the last DLC, where your nemesis ascribes Great and Important Things to you delivering stuff to a specific place, when in actual reality it was just deliveries #6363 and #6854. E: vvv eh, we talked about that before, I know that. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 23:30 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 22:41
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Tell me about the super mutants
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Jul 7, 2017 23:26
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MisterBibs posted:Probably a repeat, but it bugs me out that New Vegas cut out the most logical ending option, where you gently caress off after delivering the chip because you're expressly a Courier who has been pretty much everywhere in the US, this job was just one of many jobs you did, and there's hardly much keeping you here anyway. I wouldn't say it bugs me, but that's actually a pretty cool idea. Rocking back to work after killing benny and asking for you next job would be funny. Didn't Mr. House set you up though? I seem to recall there's more to it than just benny being a dick, so the courier goes beyond just killing benny.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:43
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Killing benny is the reason you start exploring, then you are introduced to other actors in the world and the expectation is you start to take an interest in those and killing benny becomes a side objective. I'd love an ending where your guy just doesn't give a gently caress though.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:50
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ilmucche posted:Didn't Mr. House set you up though? I seem to recall there's more to it than just benny being a dick, so the courier goes beyond just killing benny. No, House just wanted the chip delivered, and you just happened to be the courier with the real one. Benny wanted more power so he started tracking down all the possible couriers and killing them to take the chip.
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Jul 8, 2017 02:54
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Deified Data posted:I hear you but it can't really be understated how much worse Fallout 3 is in the narrative department, though it has less to do with the character you play as and more the events surrounding them. Oh no doubt, all things considered Fallout 3 is an awful RPG just due to the fact that nothing you do matters and your character does not matter either.
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Jul 8, 2017 03:38
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Agent355 posted:Killing benny is the reason you start exploring, then you are introduced to other actors in the world and the expectation is you start to take an interest in those and killing benny becomes a side objective. It doesn't even have to be that they don't care. They're a mailman near the front of an actual ongoing war between the two largest nations in the known world. It just makes sense to leave. Alternatively, if you really want to commit to the comedy option, just have each new delivery further the main quest for one of the factions (House, probably) until you beat the game involuntarily.
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Jul 8, 2017 04:44
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PubicMice posted:I would love to see Vic and Tiggum playing an actual tabletop roleplaying game I do play them. They're fun. And unlike computer games, they involve actual role-playing. See, a human is able to actually react and adapt the story to the things the characters do, unlike a computer game in which you have to delude yourself into believing that whatever happens somehow fits with whatever character you imagine you're "role-playing" as. In a pen-and-paper game, if the group decides to do something unexpected then the story can go off in an unexpected direction. In a computer game, if the player does something unexpected then either something breaks or nothing interesting happens because it's a computer game and it can only do what it's programmed to do.
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Jul 8, 2017 05:39
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The opening to Fallout 4 would be cool for a neat indie game where you have to live in a vault and possibly never see the outside world again after your one brief look. Unfortunately you spend maybe ten minutes in the vault and experience nothing then leave to see how much the world that you spent ten seconds running past has changed so much.
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Jul 8, 2017 05:59
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Tiggum posted:I do play them. They're fun. And unlike computer games, they involve actual role-playing. See, a human is able to actually react and adapt the story to the things the characters do, unlike a computer game in which you have to delude yourself into believing that whatever happens somehow fits with whatever character you imagine you're "role-playing" as. Morrowind definitely let you do whatever.
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Jul 8, 2017 07:24
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ilmucche posted:Morrowind definitely let you do whatever. It let's you do whatever in the same way Oblivion and Skyrim do. Don't feel like doing the main quest? Cool don't At no point in them can you decide "I want to sell my soul to the bad guy in exchange for power" and have that exact thing happen you're still confined to the limits of the game which iirc is "do thing" or "don't do thing"
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Jul 8, 2017 07:26
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Len posted:It let's you do whatever in the same way Oblivion and Skyrim do. Don't feel like doing the main quest? Cool don't One Dragonborne sold his soul for power, and we all know what became of Miraak. 
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Jul 8, 2017 07:32
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Judge Tesla posted:One Dragonborne sold his soul for power, and we all know what became of Miraak. The DM decided that in the hiatus you guys took from playing your character finally failed a will save and had to be put down by the party with zero interaction from you? Because that's what happened to me 
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Jul 8, 2017 07:40
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Tiggum argues it in the dumbest way possible, but I don't think the core of what he's saying is necessarily wrong - there are quite a few weird people who get unreasonably angry when a game doesn't cater to their very specific backstories, and judging a game on that basis is pretty unfair. Triple A budgets can only go so far.
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Jul 8, 2017 07:46
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poptart_fairy posted:Tiggum argues it in the dumbest way possible, but I don't think the core of what he's saying is necessarily wrong - there are quite a few weird people who get unreasonably angry when a game doesn't cater to their very specific backstories, and judging a game on that basis is pretty unfair. Triple A budgets can only go so far. Yeah I agree with the core of what he's saying. Computer games can only account for so many outcomes and it's harder for AAA games to pull it off than isometric games because the former have to spend more resources on visuals and having accessible/engaging controls where a game with sprites can fill more of the blanks with text that's easy to edit and pad out. Same can be said with sprite games versus PNP sessions. The more abstracted the system the more fluid and responsive it is to player input.
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Jul 8, 2017 07:56
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poptart_fairy posted:Tiggum argues it in the dumbest way possible, but I don't think the core of what he's saying is necessarily wrong - there are quite a few weird people who get unreasonably angry when a game doesn't cater to their very specific backstories, and judging a game on that basis is pretty unfair. Triple A budgets can only go so far. That's not a few weirdos, though. How many people kvetched that their character in Fallout 4 cared about their baby child, and how the game wouldn't let them not care about their kidnapped baby child? How many people whined that ME3 didn't have an ending that took into consideration every choice they did? It's like nobody played Wing Commander IV as a kid, and learned that you can't keep rejecting the call to detect to the Border Worlds. You can never do everything the way you want.
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Jul 8, 2017 08:04
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MisterBibs posted:That's not a few weirdos, though. How many people kvetched that their character in Fallout 4 cared about their baby child, and how the game wouldn't let them not care about their kidnapped baby child? How many people whined that ME3 didn't have an ending that took into consideration every choice they did? I guess we're ten years out from games where a Joseph Campbell AI writes a satisfying plot around whatever actions you decide to take in a game. Shadow or Mordor is the first tiny little step that way. But I bet people will bitch about this even more and pine for the days where a real human wrote it all, then moan that it just isn't as fun as classics like Skyrim.
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Jul 8, 2017 09:45
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poptart_fairy posted:Tiggum argues it in the dumbest way possible, but I don't think the core of what he's saying is necessarily wrong - there are quite a few weird people who get unreasonably angry when a game doesn't cater to their very specific backstories, and judging a game on that basis is pretty unfair. Triple A budgets can only go so far. True, but that's not the problem with Fallout 4. 4 doesn't allow any backstories/character creation/role playing, whatever you want to call it. It's not a AAA budget thing or a Bethesda thing either - New Vegas and Skyrim both have way more freedom (drugged up punchcat! undead-hating laying-of-hands holy warrior! hard-drinking hard-gambling cowboy! scrawny good natured mad bomber!). Even Fallout 3, for all the crap it gets (deservedly and undeservedly), offers some options to sculpt your character's personality and strengths as you play them from birth. In F4, you are male soldier or female lawyer. "Can I be male lawyer?" No, sorry, triple A budgets only go so far. Honestly, the budget was so thin we can't even explain why a lawyer has power armor training. The bar must be an absolute bitch in 2077.
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Jul 8, 2017 09:48
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Action Tortoise posted:Computer games can only account for so many outcomes and it's harder for AAA games to pull it off than isometric games because the former have to spend more resources on visuals and having accessible/engaging controls where a game with sprites can fill more of the blanks with text that's easy to edit and pad out. poptart_fairy posted:there are quite a few weird people who get unreasonably angry when a game doesn't cater to their very specific backstories, and judging a game on that basis is pretty unfair. Triple A budgets can only go so far. Exactly! I mean all fallout games (and most crpgs in general) give you the character creation screen, and that's about the extent of the roleplaying you'll be doing. You wanna be a punchdude and call yourself M. Bison, you can do that but it just relates to how you will approach combat. Your choices are do the quest or don't do the quest with an occasional a and b ending. The [get thingamajig] and [kill big bad] is what you're gonna do if you play a fallout game. When they try to add flavor to the story like in the best game ever Fallout 4 I can only appreciate it considering what we had before. There are MMOs with RP servers out there for you, don't drag my post nuclear baby hunt simulator down.
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Jul 8, 2017 09:57
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Byzantine posted:In F4, you are male soldier or female lawyer. "Can I be male lawyer?" No, sorry, triple A budgets only go so far. Honestly, the budget was so thin we can't even explain why a lawyer has power armor training. The bar must be an absolute bitch in 2077. 
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Jul 8, 2017 10:16
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Oooh, ooh, are we talking about stupid writing in Fallout games? Then can we talk about how painfully idiotic Caesar is when you meet him in New Vegas? CAESAR: Hey, I know you've been busy murdering all my soldiers and ruining my plans, but can you take a break and check out this mysterious facility conveniently under my command centre? I'd send one of my thousands of soldiers but... eh. (LATER) CAESAR: Hey, you're back! I heard mysterious noises, so I'm going to assume you followed my orders and destroyed whatever you found, despite having literally no reason to trust you. I'd check, but... eh. (LATER, AT HOOVER DAM) LEGATE: Arrgh, where'd all these robots with machine guns come from?! Like, did they just assume everyone was going to shoot Caesar on sight, so there was no point giving him even a modicum of common sense? (Related, how shooting Caesar on sight doesn't change anything, despite the Legion being a cult of personality held together solely by his leadership...)
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Jul 8, 2017 10:50
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Vic posted:False. I'm reading through the last few pages and holy loving poo poo dude at least try to be subtle when you're trolling
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Jul 8, 2017 12:46
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MisterBibs posted:That's not a few weirdos, though. How many people kvetched that their character in Fallout 4 cared about their baby child, and how the game wouldn't let them not care about their kidnapped baby child? How many people whined that ME3 didn't have an ending that took into consideration every choice they did? So let's not even try to write a good story. Why even have a story if it's such a loving hassle FALLOUT 5 can just be forty hours of silently walking through the desert following quest markers that don't have any plot and shooting brainless super mutants and raiders with guns and armor that all do the exact same damage and defense rating anyway because nothing in a Bethesda game will ever matter
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Jul 8, 2017 13:00
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Vic posted:[timg][/timg] You're just being a dick about it now, that's not even a response to what he said. You can objectively not play a male lawyer or female soldier in FO4 because it is a poorly written poo poo game you are really in love with and you should go put that in the I LOVE THIS GAME thread instead of the this game sucks thread
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Jul 8, 2017 13:04
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Hey champ you've already proven my point you can take a break now.
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Jul 8, 2017 13:07
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Agent355 posted:Killing benny is the reason you start exploring, then you are introduced to other actors in the world and the expectation is you start to take an interest in those and killing benny becomes a side objective. Finding Shaun is the reason you start exploring, then you are introduced to other actors in the world and the expectation is you start to take an interest in those. Finding Liam Neeson is the reason you start exploring, then you are introduced to other actors in the world and the expectation is you start to take an interest in those. Like, I know its a goon darling, possibly because people are hoping that if they slobber over it enough ropekid will acknowledge their existence, but the writing in NV is not really noticeably better or worse than FO3 or FO4. Its a better game, because they made marginal improvements to the mechanics, in a similar way to how GTA Vice City is a mechanical improvement on GTA3, but the main story really does more or less stop about 2 hours in, and ignoring travel time probably lasts a total of about 10 minutes. Its a revenge story where you get your revenge at the end of the first act and the boring epilogue is the entire rest of the games run time. I know they were expecting players to give a gently caress about who controls the hoover dam/new vegas, but they kind of forgot to either write a compelling set of characters who could actually make me care about their fate or make the city of vegas seem important enough for me to feel like it makes a difference. With the characters they were going for a "shades of grey" thing, but they essentially ended up with "Well these ones are slave owning rapists, so the dull bureaucrats are the good guys by default". So we still have a good guy/bad guy split, but with the good guys being boring as hell and tedious to deal with. There is an option to keep control for yourself, but as the actual city of new vegas is essentially 2 screens with I think 3 casinos and a hotel, theres nothing there that seems worth the hassle of keeping it. In fact after my first play through I avoided the city of vegas as much as I could because every time you went into a casino you had a 3 minute successsion of "pistol removed. Power fist removed. Grenades removed." messages and there was nothing there fun enough to justify sitting through that multiple times. Basically they gave my character in the game, and by extension me as a player no personal stake in deciding the fate of the city, as a result I didnt give a gently caress who controlled it. (I did play it through 2 and a half times and see the different outcomes but that was to play more of the game not through any investment in the story). Speaking personally I prefer when a game give my character a personal motivation rather than a nebulous one. I'm more likely to be invested in and motivated by "rescue your buddy" or "Get revenge on this motherfucker who done you wrong" or, yes "find your missing family member" plots that I am "the fate of the world is in your hands!". If they wanted an interesting "baddie" ending they could have let you blow the dam in the middle of the battle, would have been more interesting than "side with Caesar, except not really Caesar but his second in command who you never meet until the finale because we are terrified of fans criticising us for using the "essential" flag on a character but cant think of another way of stopping the player shortcutting the game and breaking mission by killing the villain 3 hours into the game" And again, I played NV, I really enjoyed NV. Its just not a good story. Great GAME, but the main plot is actually weaker than the much maligned main plot from FO3. At least FO3 remembered to put the end of the story at the end of the game (pre DLC obviously). With New Vegas you could make a reasonable argument that the main plot is weaker and less coherent than the minimal strands tying the DLCs together. At least they built to a climax. Of course part of the problem is always going to be that the more freedom you give a player to dick around the more that is going to clash with any high-stakes story, which is one of the places that FO4 falls down for me; I'm fine with playing as a character with a partially set background, I'm fine with some details being pushed on you for the sake of the game story (In FO3 you couldnt be an orphan, in NV you had to be a courier, in FO2 you couldnt be a vault dweller, Skyrim you are someone who the imperials would think of a criminal, in witcher 3 you are not just a witcher but specifically Geralt, a character with a half dozen books of specific characterisation), but the urgency of "Your child has been kidnapped" did not mesh with the way I play these games (sidequest ocd combined with compulsive packrat kleptomania). In earlier games this was also true, but Liam Neeson was a grown rear end man who could reasonably be expected to look after himself for a bit while I cosplayed as Abe Lincoln and cleared out the Lincoln memorial. A missing child is obviously a lot more urgent. Another big problem particular to FO4 was that I figured out that Shaun was now grown up long before the main character did. He was still asking people about his infant son long after we had seen Shaun had been old enough to walk around and talk in a flashback scene that was explicitly "some years ago". I had to assume that the cryosleep had caused some form of low level brain damage in the character. Which also explains why hes running around intimidating people dressed as a pulp radio show character instead of following up those clues about the location of his child. tl:dr: Things dragging NV down; the main story is weak as hell, and the actual city of vegas is built up through dialogue only to be a massive disappointment when you see it or actually try to interact with it. And people who insist its the only "real" fallout game of modern times who take any criticism of the game as a personal attack. Other Fallout games have similar problems to greater or lesser extents because its a consequence of trying to marry a "go anywhere do anything!" gameplay bullet point with a "Epic high stakes story!" bullet point. The only solution would be to have a timer, visible or not, that ticks down in the background until the game decides "you've dicked around too much now" and moves to a main story fail state. I would personally hate that so much that it would put me off the games, but it would give the game the same urgency as the story.
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Jul 8, 2017 13:24
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Reading your post almost makes me wish for a nuclear winter.
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Jul 8, 2017 13:30
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Action Tortoise posted:Someone mentioned it in the thread. No one can have a sane discussion over this particular game so we all patiently wait for the inevitable Dr. Who war cry and, well, the thread starts looking like this: If I were Bethesda I would just ignore all feedback from the Fallout community because there is literally nothing that would make its fans happy, or even not-unhappy.
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Jul 8, 2017 13:57
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Vic posted:Exactly! I mean all fallout games (and most crpgs in general) give you the character creation screen, and that's about the extent of the roleplaying you'll be doing. You wanna be a punchdude and call yourself M. Bison, you can do that but it just relates to how you will approach combat. Your choices are do the quest or don't do the quest with an occasional a and b ending. The [get thingamajig] and [kill big bad] is what you're gonna do if you play a fallout game. When they try to add flavor to the story like in the best game ever Fallout 4 I can only appreciate it considering what we had before. Imma let you in on a secret my guy. Lowkey we know these games are limited in scope. We know we're not gonna get the exact same role playing experience from a tabletop session that we would from a predetermined computer program. The "this isn't role playing because you're all playing the same role!" argument has already been considered by the rest of us. You and Tiggum have already written these games off as sources for role playing so why bother beating the same drum when we've all already heard that noise? None of us expect New Vegas or Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex to perfectly reflect our ideal characters. We all make concessions when we invest ourselves in a game. We can still appreciate how much wiggle room we have to express and interpret our characters' motivations and reactions these types of games allow. Deus Ex isn't a great shooter or stealth game but I always talk it up because I had an incredibly stupid setup and managed to kill a boss with it. Any other game would have shut me down but I thought up a solution and the game was robust enough to allow my actions to play out. Y'all act like you're out of the Matrix and see how fake all this poo poo is, but all you guys are doing is missing the forest for the trees.
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Jul 8, 2017 14:01
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Just posting anything to break up the fallout 4 chatter, In Sonic 06 there sure are a lot of loading screens. It's like they keep reloading the entire map just to make an npc say a sentence.
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Jul 8, 2017 14:25
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scarycave posted:Just posting anything to break up the fallout 4 chatter, In Sonic 06 there sure are a lot of loading screens. It's like they keep reloading the entire map just to make an npc say a sentence. I think that's exactly what's happening. Every time you switch between cutscene and gameplay the game is loading the world back in. Slowbeef did a casual play through of it and talked about that in the first video.
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Jul 8, 2017 14:27
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The Pokecapn LP called them game state transitions and I'm pretty sure that's accurate, the loading screens for single boxes of text were amazing
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Jul 8, 2017 14:36
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I love how Sonic can be killed at the end of one level, after you lose control, by random falling rocks during a jump. It just happens sometimes. It's peak 06.
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Jul 8, 2017 15:12
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I'm playing Persona 5 and I kind of hate the way your social link progression is tied to your dialog choices. It makes me feel like I'm wasting days if I go through them without looking at a guide (because I am). Another thing: you get a party member late in the game who requires proficiency 5 to advance their social link at all. You need to do this to get the baton pass skill, which is pretty essential if you actually want to use them. My proficiency was only at 3 so I just decided to forgo using them, since I was getting to the end and wanted finish up social links and had no idea how many days maxing out my proficiency would cost me. Finally: they really phoned it in on Futaba's personas, jeez.
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Jul 8, 2017 15:25
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The best part of Sonic 06 was when I went through a bad game buying phase and I asked a GameStop seasonal employee if they had a copy he said "It looks like we don't which is a shame because that's a really good game" I'm still not sure if he was just saying that because I was looking or if he honestly thought it was a good game.
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Jul 8, 2017 15:32
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The Moon Monster posted:Another thing: you get a party member late in the game who requires proficiency 5 to advance their social link at all. You need to do this to get the baton pass skill, which is pretty essential if you actually want to use them. My proficiency was only at 3 so I just decided to forgo using them, since I was getting to the end and wanted finish up social links and had no idea how many days maxing out my proficiency would cost me. I saw people recommend this in the P5 thread a good bit back, when they eventually do P5: Crimson or whatever the redux will be called, god almighty do they need to make baton pass a core skill of the game and if they REALLY need to pad the confidant rewards still, then just the damage bonus part of it can be kept as the normal rank 2 for everyone.
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Jul 8, 2017 15:43
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Metal Gear Solid gets too much poo poo for being wordy and Golden Sun doesn't get near enough.
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Jul 8, 2017 15:45
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Gitro posted:I love how Sonic can be killed at the end of one level, after you lose control, by random falling rocks during a jump. It just happens sometimes. It's peak 06. Half the time during the "mach speed" segments - sonic will "die" but you still have full control over him, so as the screen fades to black you can still keep steering him into the distance since the camera will stop following him. I actually got my first gameover from that segment because if you don't approach the end ramp at the right angle, sonic will auto steer himself off into the ocean. I think out of any sonic game, sonic 06 is the one I'm actually glad doesn't have a chao garden, because then we'd probably get nightmare scenarios like chao's clipping though the ground or cocooning themselves forever. I am kind of legit sad that the last closest thing to a chao garden, was in Shadow the hedgehog of all places - just a big room filled with chaos that you could touch to make happy or just shoot them to make them sad.
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Jul 8, 2017 15:49
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RareAcumen posted:Metal Gear Solid gets too much poo poo for being wordy and Golden Sun doesn't get near enough. Nobody loving played Golden Sun Also MGS's nonsense is voiced while Golden Sun's is just an unending stream of dibble dibble beep boop    
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Jul 8, 2017 15:50
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Mother 3 sucks as a game. It's a fun story but man it's a slog going through four chapters before it gives you control of the main character proper. gently caress the monkey's chapter in particular, what an unfun mess that was. It also has the same problems as Golden Sun, TOO MUCH STOPPING AND TALKING. I get that JRPGs are dialog heavy but enough to with stopping and talking every couple seconds, I just want to go on Goonies-like adventures to weird places and bash strange creatures over the head with a baseball bat. Earthbound is way more fun anyway. wafflemoose has a new favorite as of 16:12 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 16:10
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