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I think the reason why the milk is in the back is that it is easier to make deliveries of milk from the refrigerated truck parked behind the store and loading its wares in the back part of the store to the refrigerated shelves in the back of the store. The milk doesn't come up to room temperature and so stays refrigerated longer, and so it lasts longer in the refrigerator shelves and is cheaper. We actually want the milk to be in the back of the store.
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Jul 9, 2017 10:31
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Planet Money did an episode about this particular argument, by the way. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/09/21/494927147/episode-555-why-is-the-milk-in-the-back-of-the-store
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Jul 9, 2017 13:17
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Yeah, I'm regurgitating that guy's argument on the show.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:26
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got any sevens posted:With reasonable jobs any shift over 8 hours, the portion over 8 is OT. And if you're over 40, the hours past 40 are OT. And if I have two shifts start/stop within 10 hours, the portions within the 10hr time are OT. Wow, where do you work? I've never seen a job that worked like that: you didn't get paid for OT until you actually got over 40 hours in a week. My wife works 4 10 hour days per week, but she doesn't get paid any extra for it.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:44
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Thalantos posted:Wow, where do you work? I've never seen a job that worked like that: you didn't get paid for OT until you actually got over 40 hours in a week. A ufcw grocery store.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:59
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got any sevens posted:A ufcw grocery store. I've never been in a union in my life; poo poo, I've never even been in a job that had a union as an option.
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Jul 9, 2017 15:02
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Slanderer posted:...so that the dairy section (and frozen foods section) is the last thing you reach after navigating all the other aisles, which means that you don't have it in your cart warming up the whole time you're shopping? You'd be surprised how few people think about food safety while they're shopping. There are a couple of things that factor into why milk is where it is. In larger stores, for example, the dairy will often be in the back because the dairy cooler will be directly behind the milk displays. This allows one person to rotate and fill the milk much more efficiently than they otherwise could. Frozen food and dairy cannot ( should not ) sit on the floor without refrigeration for longer than 20-30 minutes, so you want the display coolers reasonably close to the storage coolers. But really, pretty much everything else is laid out in ways that maximize profit and traffic flow. The longer you keep people in a store, the more money they spend. The easier it is to navigate, the less frustrated they are, the longer they stay. Whenever corporate thinks they've come up with a better formula, we get to shuffle everything around. DrNutt posted:No, they're not good. I was a dues paying member and they couldn't do jack poo poo when I was wrongfully terminated after a manager refused to allow me to use FMLA in a way that my doctor explicitly specified. I'm glad to know they're as garbage as I thought they were. I found out after I left that the union succeeded in getting their pay raise ( after making other concessions ), but only for certain departments. And it didn't apply to part-timers, which performed the lion's share of the labor. Or people already making more than ten dollars an hour. We couldn't keep anyone ( save the lifers with full-time positions ), and pretty much everyone was pissed off all the time. People wouldn't show up for shifts, they'd quit without warning, gently caress around all day, etc. The industry undermines itself by being so tight-fisted. My current store recently gave out a bunch of 'awards' for reaching profit goals, reducing shrink, etc. Our deli manager reduced his yearly shrink by fifty thousand loving dollars. For this, he received a piece of paper that said "GOOD JOB." He threw it away the second the store manager was out of sight. What is his motivation to improve, or meet that goal again? The employee has no reason to care aside from making his job easier.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:04
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Speaking of motivation, under our new contract at a UFCW grocery chain, new full timers who aren't departent heads will have their salaries capped at $18.50/hr. So some years down the road their labor force is going to consist entirely of part timers making near minimum wage and full timers who know they're never seeing another raise.got any sevens posted:A ufcw grocery store. Same, and our rules are basically the same. But it comes wih the caveat that OT (that isn't the normal Sunday premium) is pretty rare.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:16
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Still better than right to work states. 35+ years and think dad is still at mid 16 bucks an hour. Yay getting stuck in jobs because of healthcare / preexisting!
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Jul 9, 2017 18:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:QVC, The Home Shopping Network, and Infusion Brands (Makers of "As Seen on TV" products) are all merging under a buyout deal from QVC. If you think this company goes bankrupt in a couple years, you live in an urban/suburban area and don't have lonely elderly people in anywhere in your circle of contacts. Old people watch QVC/HSN because it's a voice talking to them when the kids won't call and there's nobody to talk to. In addition to the TV therapy, there's the act of calling their live operators and dealing with a live human that makes the shut-in elderly buy things they probably shouldn't just for the experience of personal contact with someone. Some of the hosts are like de-facto celebrities with their die hard audience. I've actually looked at QVC's message boards (yes, these existed) and read threads were basically users flaming each other for their favorite hosts. Except for Mary Beth, who is practically loved by everyone. In addition, these companies are on every cable network and carried by low-power TV affiliates all over the country, because they pay to be there (yes, they're one of the few TV stations that pays your cable company for the channel, not the other way around.) They're reachable in the most rural, low population regions where there's almost no internet access. I've taken road trips up and around through the rural parts of Nevada and QVC or HSN is almost always available off some independently run broadcast tower. You browse TV and it's unexpected to see somebody in the region who owns a transmission tower running QVC on 41.1, old 50s TV shows channels on 41.2 and 41.3, and some bad music videos from 30 years ago on 41.4. Significant Ant posted:But then you have to deal with parking You're not aware of how huge suburban American parking lots can be. At any big power shopping center or whatever, arriving via public transportation means you arrive at the sidewalk and now have to cross the entirety of an enormous parking lot with sudden moving cars to get to the entrance of where you ultimately wanted to be. There may not even be a paved path providing access to the lot from the sidewalk, so depending on design you may have to walk up to where the cars are pulling in/out from the road and be aware and try to walk inside without getting run down. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 21:15
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silence_kit posted:I think the reason why the milk is in the back is that it is easier to make deliveries of milk from the refrigerated truck parked behind the store and loading its wares in the back part of the store to the refrigerated shelves in the back of the store. No, the actual reason as previous posters mentioned is to ensure that you as the customer actually walk trough the entire store. It might have begun because of the reason you mentioned above but as a business management student let me tell you that is no longer why they're doing it. Smaller stores are usually less rigid about this but supermarkets will always skew towards making the customer walk in a U-turn from entry to cashier by carefully placing staples, produce and diary in strategic locations. By making you pass more aisles they force you to observe more products and deals which increases the chance of un-planned impulse purchases. Diary is far back for the same reason that candy is placed at a kids eye-level at the cashier, to coerce you into buying more.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:07
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MiddleOne posted:No, the actual reason as previous posters mentioned is to ensure that you as the customer actually walk trough the entire store. It might have begun because of the reason you mentioned ...but they could have built the store/storage/cold areas differently if they really had a food safety or shelf life concern and wanted to make it convenient for you. So yeah, this is vegas-casino-lite.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:26
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Amused to Death posted:Speaking of motivation, under our new contract at a UFCW grocery chain, new full timers who aren't departent heads will have their salaries capped at $18.50/hr. So some years down the road their labor force is going to consist entirely of part timers making near minimum wage and full timers who know they're never seeing another raise. I pay dues for a position that will never see a raise, no matter how hard I work, and that is set at minimum. I also do not get Sunday/Holiday premium. The UFCW is loving useless.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:27
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Boxman posted:Planet Money did an episode about this particular argument, by the way. this is the real poo poo right here quote:KESTENBAUM: Ah, the truth. I think we have this idea in economics - in a lot of things, really - that when there is a question, there is an answer. But sometimes, there just isn't. Stores themselves may not even have a clear idea of why they're doing what they're doing here. It's not like there's some binder at every supermarket's headquarters titled Optimal Milk Placement Analysis. Slanderer fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 00:55
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Slanderer posted:this is the real poo poo right here Holy gently caress, he couldn't be more wrong.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:12
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For every question, there are literally binders full of contradicting answers.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:27
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WampaLord posted:Holy gently caress, he couldn't be more wrong. Maybe the big time chains, but I doubt small scale ones bother. And there a lot of small scale ones, or small scale chains that get bought up and only partially integrated into a larger chain, with nothing really getting moved until the big chain bothers to pay for a renovation years down the line.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:31
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Another factor in dairy department placement is that the cases are stocked from a chill room behind them, which makes sense to put in the back of the building near the loading docks.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:35
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WampaLord posted:Holy gently caress, he couldn't be more wrong. They ( corporate ) will send stores memos with pictures that say, "This is how you will stock this. You will stock it exactly like this picture, or we will find out, and we will skull gently caress you with a stapler." So yeah, pretty wrong. Stores plan their layouts. For everything. There is a reason why old stores and new stores generally try to coax customers into running a circuit of the entire thing. Produce/dairy/meat will do just that.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:56
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Craptacular! posted:If you think this company goes bankrupt in a couple years, you live in an urban/suburban area and don't have lonely elderly people in anywhere in your circle of contacts. Old people watch QVC/HSN because it's a voice talking to them when the kids won't call and there's nobody to talk to. In addition to the TV therapy, there's the act of calling their live operators and dealing with a live human that makes the shut-in elderly buy things they probably shouldn't just for the experience of personal contact with someone. Some of the hosts are like de-facto celebrities with their die hard audience. I've actually looked at QVC's message boards (yes, these existed) and read threads were basically users flaming each other for their favorite hosts. Except for Mary Beth, who is practically loved by everyone. I don't get HSN/QVC where we live now, but for a year or so I would sleep with HSN on because the talking helped with my anxiety  I've never bought anything but I totally had favorite hosts
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Jul 10, 2017 04:16
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I've been in some really high end grocery stores in Texas years ago that were laid out almost like the ikea maze.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:33
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Another factor in dairy department placement is that the cases are stocked from a chill room behind them, which makes sense to put in the back of the building near the loading docks. It's 99% this. Dairy is generally stocked from behind and part of a larger chiller room which is obviously part of the larger stock/storage area which generally tends to be at the back of the store. I've done some plans for a supermarket with the dairy along the side. Why? Because that's the side of the building where the loading docks were.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:45
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Baronjutter posted:It's 99% this. Dairy is generally stocked from behind and part of a larger chiller room which is obviously part of the larger stock/storage area which generally tends to be at the back of the store. I've done some plans for a supermarket with the dairy along the side. Why? Because that's the side of the building where the loading docks were. Neat, are you an architect?
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Jul 10, 2017 06:09
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Neat, are you an architect? Nah, but I pour over blueprints all day for my job. I used to be in architecture though, but was just a drafting guy. Now I'm in fire safety so I get plans for shopping centres quite frequently.
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Jul 10, 2017 06:11
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Baronjutter posted:Nah, but I pour over blueprints all day for my job. I used to be in architecture though, but was just a drafting guy. Now I'm in fire safety so I get plans for shopping centres quite frequently. poo poo, if a fire broke out at my local Trader Joe's I would definitely die. Especially if the guy who lets his children ride their bicycles down the aisles was there.
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Jul 10, 2017 06:14
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I don't understand where else in the store people would put dairy or meat. If the store itself is in a strip mall the shape will almost certainly be square. This limits the overall number of configurations you can have and since both of these departments (and to some extent bakeries will also) have space requirements for prep areas and cold storage. There's also the truck thing that's been brought up. Sure, you can put the dairy freezer right in the middle of the store, but that's just a space customers now can't pass through, and also you have the problem of unloading your trucks becoming more difficult. I suppose moving both departments back-to-back in the center of the store is the most efficient layout if you don't like the existing one. It doesn't strike me as that much more enticing to customers. Are there actually alternate configurations people believe would result in increased profits for the business? Even if it is true that they use this layout because it increases profits (and I'm not saying it isn't) it just seems like this is also the most obviously economical layout from a "how do I run this business as cheaply as possible" standpoint.
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Jul 10, 2017 06:30
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WampaLord posted:Holy gently caress, he couldn't be more wrong. Like I could literally bury him in the corporate and public research he claims doesn't exist.
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Jul 10, 2017 06:57
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If you want proof that dairy placement is huge for retailers, look at how every Costco has their dairy case crammed into the back corner AND you can walk around the entire thing because it's literally a room inside of the building.
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Jul 10, 2017 07:30
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got any sevens posted:With reasonable jobs any shift over 8 hours, the portion over 8 is OT. And if you're over 40, the hours past 40 are OT. And if I have two shifts start/stop within 10 hours, the portions within the 10hr time are OT. Ahahahahahahahahahahahah. <deep breath> Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Even California allows for alternative workweek schedules that end in OT just being hours over 40 in a week, because the IT industry demands it of them.
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Jul 10, 2017 09:44
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MiddleOne posted:Like I could literally bury him in the corporate and public research he claims doesn't exist. Doesn't affect the real world tho
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Jul 10, 2017 10:58
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Maybe...there can be two reasons for milks placement??
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Jul 10, 2017 13:22
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Like, fine, maybe the milk thing is a happy accident, but store layouts are absolutely designed to ensure maximum profit. They put produce up front to make you think "Ah, all this nice fresh food!" and they scatter essentials throughout the store to ensure you see more items while browsing, the impulse items near the checkout, etc. Like, all of this is a huge field of study called Marketing. It's not just some weird conspiracy theory.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:46
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WampaLord posted:Like, fine, maybe the milk thing is a happy accident, but store layouts are absolutely designed to ensure maximum profit. They put produce up front to make you think "Ah, all this nice fresh food!" and they scatter essentials throughout the store to ensure you see more items while browsing, the impulse items near the checkout, etc. edit: I mean, clearly, people are going to try to layout a store to maximize profits, whether that means minimizing costs on refrigeration/spoilage/labor or maximizing what get's purchased. I'm questioning 1) Whether there can even sensibly exist hard and fast rules to do that and 2) Where people have come to conclusions is it just "common sense" or the result of actual rigorous research. twodot fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 16:55
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Already been mentioned, but when I worked at a grocery store years ago the milk was in the back because it was adjacent to the chilling plant/loading dock. I have no doubt that the rest of the layout is designed with maximization of profits in mind, though.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:56
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twodot posted:Is this actually a field of study or is this just a collection people repeating things that sound true? Like the two grocery stores I frequent have two entrances on opposite sides of the building. One of them can't plausibly call one area the front (the nearest parking is on top of it surrounded by a strip mall), and the entrance near the produce closes earlier than the entrance near the frozen food. Is this store laid out by idiots, or are the people in charge of store layout design just making poo poo up and back justifying it? "This general statement can't be true!" the expert smirked, "I've found an exception!" Yes, marketing is an actual field of study.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:13
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Twodot you're ignoring people's experiences again and undermining any you have to say.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:22
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twodot posted:Is this actually a field of study or is this just a collection people repeating things that sound true? Well, guess it's time to go rip up my Marketing degree and go tell my Consumer Behavior professor that he was full of poo poo. All of those studies he showed us...wasted. 
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Jul 10, 2017 17:25
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Correct me if i'm wrong, wasn't there a semi-famous story about the development of the shopper's reward card and how it can be used to statistically increase sales by showing shopping patterns? Something about a housewife doing the research and presenting it to a local chain.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:28
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scaterry posted:Correct me if i'm wrong, wasn't there a semi-famous story about the development of the shopper's reward card and how it can be used to statistically increase sales by showing shopping patterns? Something about a housewife doing the research and presenting it to a local chain. I never heard that story but the shopper's card definitely works on me. My grocery store gives me progressively bigger discounts for things I buy regularly, and since I eat exactly the same food six days out of seven I'm way into the loss leader zone for almost everything. But I never even think of shopping at another store for regular groceries.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:33
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I never heard that story but the shopper's card definitely works on me. My grocery store gives me progressively bigger discounts for things I buy regularly, and since I eat exactly the same food six days out of seven I'm way into the loss leader zone for almost everything. But I never even think of shopping at another store for regular groceries. Does that discount apply to fresh produce? Cause drat, I'd be all over that.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:46
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