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Now the question is whether Vive will also announce a price cut or if they're willing to allow Oculus to gain market share.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:10
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Cojawfee posted:Wow, Oculus does a hardware sale that should help get more people into VR, and people still can't help but console warrior about it. Affordable VR is a good thing. Not if it leads to a closed platform walled-garden its not.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:19
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Knifegrab posted:Not if it leads to a closed platform walled-garden its not. Luckily for everyone it doesn't
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Jul 10, 2017 17:20
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JazzFlight posted:I know there's the main fight between Vive and Oculus, but do you really feel like a second-class citizen with Oculus + Touch on Steam? Have developers (who don't have exclusivity deals) been rather good about supporting both? Never felt like a second class citizen, even games that are made with the Vive in mind generally wind up having Touch support developed for them, and even if they don't SteamVR does a great job of translating the controls across anyway. I've never come across a game that I haven't been able to play so far. My only problems with the Rift have been when an update screwed the pooch and caused players to gradually fly off into the ceiling after a couple of uses and some tracking issues when I'm turned to the right - a third sensor would clear that right up. My usage of it has been pretty constant since I bought it in December too and I haven't had any failures. The only breakage I managed was a lightbulb while playing Climbey  E: My only game worry is if Bethesda prevent Rift players from playing Fallout 4 VR somehow, but I doubt that'll be the case at all.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:22
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Knifegrab posted:Not if it leads to a closed platform walled-garden its not. Holy Christ. Revive exists and works, and no one is stopping Vive owners from using Oculus Store.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:22
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peter gabriel posted:Luckily for everyone it doesn't Oh cool how long have you worked at Facebook?
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Jul 10, 2017 17:22
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D1E posted:Holy Christ. Revive exists and works, and no one is stopping Vive owners from using Oculus Store. Oculus has in the past. Huge uproar caused them to go back on their "fix" that eliminated Revive's ability to work. They are taking a loss on producing the rift, they have to recoup the cost somewhere, and it is almost certain that they are going to keep pushing the exclusivity nonsense until we end up in a glide API VR look-a-like. Once they hit a critical market mass they will likely pull the rug out from every tool that supports other hardware and do their best to lock their store to their hardware. Its pretty much the Facebook M.O.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:24
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Knifegrab posted:Oh cool how long have you worked at Facebook? I'm not sure what this means but I have never had a VR game not work, no matter where I bought it. I am sure there are examples but I can't see any walls in my VR garden, I can however see a grape vine, needs harvesting they look a bit sour lol Knifegrab posted:Oculus has in the past. Huge uproar caused them to go back on their "fix" that eliminated Revive's ability to work. They are taking a loss on producing the rift, they have to recoup the cost somewhere, and it is almost certain that they are going to keep pushing the exclusivity nonsense until we end up in a glide API VR look-a-like. Once they hit a critical market mass they will likely pull the rug out from every tool that supports other hardware and do their best to lock their store to their hardware. Its pretty much the Facebook M.O. So basically stuff you personally think might / will happen? I dunno man, seems a bit flaky to me
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Jul 10, 2017 17:26
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Knifegrab posted:Oculus has in the past. Huge uproar caused them to go back on their "fix" that eliminated Revive's ability to work. They are taking a loss on producing the rift, they have to recoup the cost somewhere, and it is almost certain that they are going to keep pushing the exclusivity nonsense until we end up in a glide API VR look-a-like. Once they hit a critical market mass they will likely pull the rug out from every tool that supports other hardware and do their best to lock their store to their hardware. Its pretty much the Facebook M.O. I remember you. You were the #1 console warrior in all the VR threads posting nonstop hate against Oculus. Thanks for motivating me to buy the Rift.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:27
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peter gabriel posted:I'm not sure what this means but I have never had a VR game not work, no matter where I bought it. I am sure there are examples but I can't see any walls in my VR garden, I can however see a grape vine, needs harvesting they look a bit sour lol You haven't because Oculus has decided to still not lock out ReVive (though they have in the past). I am not sure what makes you think they never would. Their goal is market domination, and they will do that via hardware exclusivity. They'd already be there if the public didn't lose its collective poo poo when they disabled revive the first time, and Oculus was still too fledgling to spit in their face so they reverted the change (and the Revive Devs were smart and worked around it). Once they hit a critical point its idiotic business for them to continue supporting other hardwares, when its antithetical to what they're trying to corner.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:28
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Knifegrab posted:Oculus has in the past. Huge uproar caused them to go back on their "fix" that eliminated Revive's ability to work. They are taking a loss on producing the rift, they have to recoup the cost somewhere, and it is almost certain that they are going to keep pushing the exclusivity nonsense until we end up in a glide API VR look-a-like. Once they hit a critical market mass they will likely pull the rug out from every tool that supports other hardware and do their best to lock their store to their hardware. Its pretty much the Facebook M.O. You've been at this troll for like 4 pages worth of posts alone. You haven't convinced anyone, let it go.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:28
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Knifegrab posted:You haven't because Oculus has decided to still not lock out ReVive (though they have in the past). I am not sure what makes you think they never would. Their goal is market domination, and they will do that via hardware exclusivity. They'd already be there if the public didn't lose its collective poo poo when they disabled revive the first time, and Oculus was still too fledgling to spit in their face so they reverted the change (and the Revive Devs were smart and worked around it). Once they hit a critical point its idiotic business for them to continue supporting other hardwares, when its antithetical to what they're trying to corner. I've never used / installed revive though, so I dunno 
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Jul 10, 2017 17:30
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peter gabriel posted:I've never used / installed revive though, so I dunno Then you don't play Oculus store games on Vive.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:31
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Buy a loss leader Rift and then buy all your games from Steam, IMO
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Jul 10, 2017 17:31
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I don't like Oculus' practices and feel like they might abuse market position if given the chance. Their track record leans in that direction and Facebook has a history of questionable ethics. I will probably buy a Rift though
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Jul 10, 2017 17:32
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Knifegrab posted:Then you don't play Oculus store games on Vive. Why would I when I have a Rift? Seems to me the Rift is more compatible than the Vive then? I'm really not sure what the deal is.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:32
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JazzFlight posted:I know there's the main fight between Vive and Oculus, but do you really feel like a second-class citizen with Oculus + Touch on Steam? Have developers (who don't have exclusivity deals) been rather good about supporting both? I do when Valve breaks compatibility with something. I mean, for a month or two you couldn't actually set up SteamVR with the Rift without using 3rd party apps. For games, its usually when the dev makes things very specific for the Vive wands, like using the trigger to hold items instead of the grip. But that is kinda minor. I don't use SteamVR often anyways since I have a min-spec VR computer currently and SteamVR will introduce lower framerates and jank for me. Zaphod42 posted:Also how is touch for full on roomscale, can you walk around and everything without any issues? For the tracked area, there are no issues at all. However, the tracking volume is smaller than the Vive. If you are tall, you can introduce some deadzones either very high or very low around the floor.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:33
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BMan posted:Buy a loss leader Rift and then buy all your games from Steam, IMO This is honestly the smart bet at the current price point. Taintrunner posted:You've been at this troll for like 4 pages worth of posts alone. You haven't convinced anyone, let it go. Its always funny to me that having this discussion is just "trolling" and its always labelled as such by Rift owners. The rift is a neat piece of hardware, at the current price point you'd be an idiot to not buy one over the others on the market. That doesn't mean we can't talk about how in the long run we may see some shady stuff happen. peter gabriel posted:Why would I when I have a Rift? I almost fell for it.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:33
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Knifegrab posted:I almost fell for it. Not bait, honestly. I don't feel strongly enough about any VR company for that kind of thing. It just genuinely confused me that's all, could you clarify? The black box on my head could be made by anyone, I give zero shits.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:38
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peter gabriel posted:Not bait, honestly. I don't feel strongly enough about any VR company for that kind of thing. It just genuinely confused me that's all, could you clarify? Is there a ReVive equivalent for Rift? I honestly don't really know, I barely use VR anymore. If not then it would seem the Vive has the best compatibility cause they can use all games built for everything with the use of ReVive. Also bear in mind, Valve wants to do similar poo poo just with steam, although they don't want to lock down the hardware they just want to lock down the content delivery platform. The devil you know though...
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Jul 10, 2017 17:41
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Is lack of room scale a big issue if you go rift? I'm pretty tight on space..if I'm using the gear I need to find a corner for standing games so as not to run into poo poo.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:41
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zer0spunk posted:Is lack of room scale a big issue if you go rift? I'm pretty tight on space..if I'm using the gear I need to find a corner for standing games so as not to run into poo poo. Not really, Rift room scale works almost as good as Vive, so its pretty much an imperceptible difference. The biggest issue I think is the need for three cameras and usb cords traipsing all around your play area but again its a manageable problem. Does the 400 buck bundle come with three cameras or only two? Oh also I forgot to mention many games built for the rift platform don't really involve that much moving anyway, they are focused more on seated or standing but not necessarily room scale.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:43
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Revive existing because Oculus allows it isn't the same thing as outright supporting third-party hardware on the Oculus platform you nerds. They chose (and continue to choose) to lock out competing hardware from participating in their market when they could just as easily support it themselves. I don't know why they don't but it probably has everything to do with out-of-touch executives that say 'disruption' a lot. Oculus price cutting the Rift again is good and cool but also kind of says a bit about their chosen way to VR market. And that it isn't going as well as they hoped in the PC space.zer0spunk posted:Is lack of room scale a big issue if you go rift? I'm pretty tight on space..if I'm using the gear I need to find a corner for standing games so as not to run into poo poo. Rift has roomscale, it just does it differently. The Vive has stations you shove in the upper corners of your room and plug into a wall outlet. The Rift package that we're all talking about and it's cheapo price includes three cameras but they require a USB connection to your actual computer where the Vive's 2 tracking stations do not. Generally this requires USB extension cables and in some cases USB expansion cards for your computer but at this price the cost is easily absorbed. The big thing to deal with then is the USB cables and their connections to your computer. KakerMix fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 17:43
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zer0spunk posted:Is lack of room scale a big issue if you go rift? I'm pretty tight on space..if I'm using the gear I need to find a corner for standing games so as not to run into poo poo. Not if you specifically play games that aren't designed for room-scale: flight simulators and driving simulators and the like. There are plenty of seated/standing in place VR games. The Rift is perfectly capable of room-scale experiences - it just likely requires a third or fourth sensor (depending on room size) to work best.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:45
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D1E posted:Not if you specifically play games that aren't designed for room-scale: flight simulators and driving simulators and the like. There are plenty of seated/standing in place VR games. Honestly roomscale is fun but I find the most compelling titles seated. KakerMix posted:Revive existing because Oculus allows it isn't the same thing as outright supporting third-party hardware on the Oculus platform you nerds. They chose (and continue to choose) to lock out competing hardware from participating in their market when they could just as easily support it themselves. I don't know why they don't but it probably has everything to do with out-of-touch executives that say 'disruption' a lot. Oculus price cutting the Rift again is good and cool but also kind of says a bit about their chosen way to VR market. And that it isn't going as well as they hoped in the PC space. Shut up troll!
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Jul 10, 2017 17:45
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Knifegrab posted:Is there a ReVive equivalent for Rift? I honestly don't really know, I barely use VR anymore. If not then it would seem the Vive has the best compatibility cause they can use all games built for everything with the use of ReVive. I don't know if there is a revive equivalent for the Rift as I have never needed anything like it, hence my 'Rift seems the more compatible' comment, it wasn't a dig, it's just by your own measure it seems that way. I was wandering why that isn't the case, that's all, no bait or whatever. KakerMix posted:Revive existing because Oculus allows it isn't the same thing as outright supporting third-party hardware on the Oculus platform you nerds. They chose (and continue to choose) to lock out competing hardware from participating in their market when they could just as easily support it themselves. I don't know why they don't but it probably has everything to do with out-of-touch executives that say 'disruption' a lot. Oculus price cutting the Rift again is good and cool but also kind of says a bit about their chosen way to VR market. And that it isn't going as well as they hoped in the PC space. See this makes sense, thank you 
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Jul 10, 2017 17:46
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Zaphod42 posted:Nonono, don't misunderstand iceaim. I love retro art style. I post in the retrogames and old school fps threads regularly... and you do not. I love making Doom maps to this day, and still play cacowards wads. I love duke nukem. I love all kinds of old school FPS and I grew up on that aesthetic and am massively nostalgic for it. When I said you hate it I meant specifically in the context of VR. I should have been more clear. Just because you think it is bad, doesn't invalidate my opinion and the opinion of others who think the flat sprite aesthetic can still work in VR. Wow good for you for posting in the old school fps games thread. I mainly lurk there, but that doesn't invalidate my love for old school fps games. Dude I'm not forcing you to love flat sprite VR games. I really don't know what your problem is, but you need an attitude adjustment and stop jumping all over me for having an opinion that vr games that use flat sprites are still great and fun to play. I'm not making GBS threads all over compound or superhot or saying you can't play them. They're both amazing games too. I still think games like Quake can work for a segment of the population who have strong VR legs. I'm not saying it's perfect for everyone. Everyone has their own preferences and I am in no way trying to impose this on you or anyone else, nor am I saying such games are good for VR newbies or for growing the VR market. All I am saying is some people have enough tolerance to play Quake in VR, but it's not going to be the next Job Simulator or a killer app which something everyone is still searching for.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:47
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iceaim posted:When I said you hate it I meant specifically in the context of VR. I should have been more clear. Just because you think it is bad, doesn't invalidate my opinion and the opinion of others who think the flat sprite aesthetic can still work in VR. Wow good for you for posting in the old school fps games thread. I mainly lurk there, but that doesn't invalidate my love for old school fps games. It helps if you read Zaphods post in the voice of a Self Help Motivational video presenter
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Jul 10, 2017 17:49
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peter gabriel posted:See this makes sense, thank you This is exactly what I said you dunderhead. Also if you own both headsets why would you ever use a third party app that lets one headset play on a title its not designed for?
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Jul 10, 2017 17:49
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ice aim you don't even post in the retro fps thread bro I think you should just know when you're beaten and stfu
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Jul 10, 2017 17:49
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peter gabriel posted:
Yeah, it's just the way Oculus chose to do VR. Steam (and Valve) want to sell you software so they truly don't care what hardware you are using, they will attempt to reasonably support any and all hardware because more hardware = more people to buy software = more $$$ for Gaben's knife collection. This is illustrated perfectly because Valve will put in models to represent Rift hardware including the headset and touch controllers within Steam VR software. Oculus decided to make it so you buy their hardware and buy their software and they decided to fund games exclusive to their software platform in an attempt to become the Steam-but-Apple-aethetics software platform for VR. This includes locking out not-Oculus hardware for reasons that I've never had explained in a satisfactory way to me. Seems like doing what Valve does with Steam is what you'd want to do and it's been proven right by Steam VR's success. And that was before Steam VR started surpassing Oculus' software when it comes to features and friends lists support and all that jazz. And you can refund games on Steam which makes me, a consumer with standards, not buy on the Oculus platform even with Revive because they have to adapt, not me.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:53
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Knifegrab posted:This is exactly what I said you dunderhead. Also if you own both headsets why would you ever use a third party app that lets one headset play on a title its not designed for? I get it now, Oculus not letting other headsets use their poo poo is bad, Valve lets Rift etc. I am caught up in my head now and yeah, that sucks. It's because I was talking from the perspective people of owning a Rift. 'Then you don't play Oculus store games on Vive.' Just had me thinking 'well why would I?' No harm done eh
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Jul 10, 2017 17:53
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KakerMix posted:Rift has roomscale, it just does it differently. The Vive has stations you shove in the upper corners of your room and plug into a wall outlet. The Rift package that we're all talking about and it's cheapo price includes three cameras but they require a USB connection to your actual computer where the Vive's 2 tracking stations do not. Generally this requires USB extension cables and in some cases USB expansion cards for your computer but at this price the cost is easily absorbed. The big thing to deal with then is the USB cables and their connections to your computer.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:53
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BMan posted:Buy a loss leader Rift and then buy all your games from Steam, IMO This was my exact plan, though it turned out some of the free/exclusive Oculus games were pretty cool (Robo Recall and The Unspoken, in particular), so I do play those despite feeling a little dirty about it. Any time a game is listed in both stores I buy it on Steam. I see this gen as just a holdover until we get a good SteamVR headset with no SDE in a few years.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:54
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Everyone just go play Echo Arena
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Jul 10, 2017 17:55
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JazzFlight posted:From what I've been reading about the bundle, I think it only comes with 2 cameras. Well that's dumb as heck.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:55
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KakerMix posted:Yeah, it's just the way Oculus chose to do VR. Steam (and Valve) want to sell you software so they truly don't care what hardware you are using, they will attempt to reasonably support any and all hardware because more hardware = more people to buy software = more $$$ for Gaben's knife collection. This is illustrated perfectly because Valve will put in models to represent Rift hardware including the headset and touch controllers within Steam VR software. When I saw the Vive coming I honestly thought both of them would have gone 'no gently caress YOU' to each other regarding using each other's platforms. I would have not agreed with that but I could understand if they did. I've also thought (or did) that Facebook would go for pay per view VR things through Facebook itself, like BE ON STAGE WITH BEYONCE $5 or similar.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:56
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Parker Lewis posted:This was my exact plan, though it turned out some of the free/exclusive Oculus games were pretty cool (Robo Recall and The Unspoken, in particular), so I do play those despite feeling a little dirty about it. I mean honestly its all video games. I can sit hear and lament and whine about Oculus exclusivity but buy video games that are fun to play, independent of where they are. Support the devs even if they made not-the-best choice being on a platform that is doomed to lameness.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:57
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Lemming posted:Everyone just go play Echo Arena I think it was this game that ruined my controller. something about how I was gripping meant that sweat went into it and killed it within an hour.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:57
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I'm so used to a gear, so I'm trying to just anticipate what a tether is going to be like. How do you not wrap yourself up if you're playing something in a chair that can swivel 360? The bundle only has 2 sensors, but I plan to be seated anyway for 90% of this thing..do you just place em on the desk in front of you like speakers?
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Jul 10, 2017 17:57
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