Trump Thread II: The man make a tweet

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The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Captain Invictus posted:

the easiest answer to why trump hasn't pardoned everyone yet is because it would cause total anarchy, Washington D.C. at the very minimum would burn.

Not that he cares about that but I'm sure people have advised him against doing it heavily. I think there's a lot of loving outraged people who are only being held in check because of the mueller investigation and the assumption that justice will be served. However tenuous that may actually be.

Also, they probably think they might still be able to worm their way out of this, you know, because they are so much smarter than us and he keeps hiring the best people to deal with it and what part of the The Best People are you unclear about?

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:13

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# ? May 24, 2024 21:38

mdemone: Mar 14, 2001

I think the more direct reason he won't pardon anyone is that he would see it as an admission of wrongdoing, of which he is fundamentally incapable.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:15

Captain Invictus: Apr 5, 2005; Try reading some manga!; Clever Betty

The Glumslinger posted:

Also, they probably think they might still be able to worm their way out of this, you know, because they are so much smarter than us and he keeps hiring the best people to deal with it and what part of the The Best People are you unclear about?

I dunno if they think they can weasel out of it, but we will absolutely know once mueller goes public if they will attempt to pull the blanket pardon or not.

Groovelord Neato posted:

as a country we are never going to live this poo poo down.

Should mueller's investigation prove fruitful and shows a shitload of russian fingers in quite a lot of american pies, I can see the US recovering so long as it immediately pulls up from its current dive and changes a bunch of assumed rules into actual laws, as well as enacting more restrictions on the executive branch, etc. Again, this is still up in the air whether it will actually happen though, especially with the trump admin's readiness to leave the election machines unchecked and vulnerable.

mdemone posted:

I think the more direct reason he won't pardon anyone is that he would see it as an admission of wrongdoing, of which he is fundamentally incapable.

this is also a very valid reason.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:15

gregday: May 23, 2003

Also aren't pardoned people unable to plead the 5th?

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:16

Reik: Mar 8, 2004

mdemone posted:

I think the more direct reason he won't pardon anyone is that he would see it as an admission of wrongdoing, of which he is fundamentally incapable.

He's not admitting wrongdoing, he knows he didn't do anything wrong, which is why he would be okay with a pardon. I imagine it's like him settling out of court.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:16

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007

Captain Invictus posted:

the easiest answer to why trump hasn't pardoned everyone yet is because it would cause total anarchy, Washington D.C. at the very minimum would burn.

loving lol if you think this is even a remote possibility.

The overwhelming majority of people are too busy trying to make ends meet or chasing after the next car/gadget/house etc. to bother with anything going on in DC.

There are two things that might cause riots:

a) Draft is re-instituted
b) The US enters a period of severe depression (not just a recession like 2009)

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:18

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Hollismason posted:

Pretty sure the President can only pardon crimes of murder if it is related to a federal law. Most murders fall under State jurisdiction.

So like if someone I think murdered a bunch of people on a boat the President could pardon that

I am now imagining DT Jr killing some random dude and deciding that the only way out is to upgrade the charge by killing someone else across the state line.
It turns out there was absolutely no evidence for the first crime, while the second happened right beneath a camera in front of a police station.

cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 10, 2017

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:19

WeAreTheRomans: Feb 23, 2010; by R. Guyovich

skylined! posted:

the worst part of this is that these old craven fucks just don't die anymore

bill cheney is one abalone shell away from being a mechanical loving bivalve and yet he will outlive me

who the fuq is bill cheney

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:20

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

WeAreTheRomans posted:

who the fuq is bill cheney

he was Greg W. Bush's vice president

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:21

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Hollismason posted:

Pretty sure the President can only pardon crimes of murder if it is related to a federal law. Most murders fall under State jurisdiction.

So like if someone I think murdered a bunch of people on a boat the President could pardon that

Killing Democratic congresspeople in D.C. is a federal crime (insofar as the President can pardon crimes under D.C. law)

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:23

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

evilweasel posted:

And was actually successfully invoked in 1818, requiring Parliament to actually finally get rid of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v_Thornton

That said, private prosecutions aren't allowed under US law and I don't believe you could request trial by battle when facing prosecution by the Crown before the Revolution.

But see https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=baNbN9lJUgJh_PLUS_VQ9ZDKUfw== , starting at p. 26

I want to take independent credit though because I've raised the common - law trial by combat argument before in this forum

All it takes is one judge who'll allow it, just one

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:23

skylined!: Apr 6, 2012; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

WeAreTheRomans posted:

who the fuq is bill cheney

that is a good question I think we need to investigate

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:24

Aves Maria!: Jul 26, 2008; Maybe I'll drown

bill cheney did 9/11

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:25

Doctor Butts: May 21, 2002

glowing-fish posted:

The difference between the Ivanka thing and the Jared and Don things are like the difference between taking a stroll in the gentle rolling Appalachians on a summer day, versus being stuck in the Colorado Rockies in a snowstorm.

You are one dedicated motherfucker to your shtick/troll.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:32

JasonV: Dec 8, 2003

I'm pretty sure the first arrests will be to take out a bunch of Trump's team with New York State law -- probably all the financial stuff -- which the president can't pardon for. Some of them will flip and give public testimony and proof to federal level stuff, from treason all the way down to perjury and obstruction, and that will leave whatever congressmen weren't involved no choice but to impeach in order to save face.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:32

LITERALLY MY FETISH: Nov 11, 2010; Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

enraged_camel posted:

loving lol if you think this is even a remote possibility.

The overwhelming majority of people are too busy trying to make ends meet or chasing after the next car/gadget/house etc. to bother with anything going on in DC.

There are two things that might cause riots:

a) Draft is re-instituted
b) The US enters a period of severe depression (not just a recession like 2009)

DC burning and most of the country not giving a poo poo are two things that can both be true at the same time.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:33

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

enraged_camel posted:

loving lol if you think this is even a remote possibility.

The overwhelming majority of people are too busy trying to make ends meet or chasing after the next car/gadget/house etc. to bother with anything going on in DC.

There are two things that might cause riots:

a) Draft is re-instituted
b) The US enters a period of severe depression (not just a recession like 2009)

This.

poo poo would have to get so bad that it would affect the average apathetic piece of poo poo American before anyone would "take to the streets"

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:34

WeAreTheRomans: Feb 23, 2010; by R. Guyovich

JasonV posted:

I'm pretty sure the first arrests will be to take out a bunch of Trump's team with New York State law -- probably all the financial stuff -- which the president can't pardon for. Some of them will flip and give public testimony and proof to federal level stuff, from treason all the way down to perjury and obstruction, and that will leave whatever congressmen weren't involved no choice but to impeach in order to save face.

I can see Trump getting off scot-free via a mechanism like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcKWGJlhtxY

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:34

LITERALLY MY FETISH: Nov 11, 2010; Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

Charliegrs posted:

This.

poo poo would have to get so bad that it would affect the average apathetic piece of poo poo American before anyone would "take to the streets"

What about the women's march right after innauguration?

The difference isn't people coming out, it's whether they start burning things.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:35

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

That'd be one way to do it. Sign a blanket pardon, hand it over to your attorney. Produce if needed.

If Trump were to preemptively pardon himself, that would unnecessarily implicate him as well as damage his safety net of general ignorance about everything.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:35

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

It's neat because even though because he's republican laws legally don't apply to him he's actually one of the weakest presidents ever since he's gotten all his family and businesses and family who run his businesses mixed up in all this. Like he might not care his son goes to jail but he will care the CEO of his company goes to jail.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:37

JasonV: Dec 8, 2003

CmdrRiker posted:

If Trump were to preemptively pardon himself, that would unnecessarily implicate him as well as damage his safety net of general ignorance about everything.

Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. I'm no lawyer, but I bet you can impeach the president if he's been pardoned. You're just taking away the criminal punishment with a pardon, but you can still remove him from office for the same crime he just confessed to.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:40

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

CmdrRiker posted:

If Trump were to preemptively pardon himself, that would unnecessarily implicate him as well as damage his safety net of general ignorance about everything.

That's just a matter of drafting. "I didn't do anything, but just to defeat the lies of my many enemies, I pardon myself and my lovely wonderful children of anything they or I may be accused of" etc.

Again, the goal isn't a valid legal pardon: the goal is gumming up the works.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:40

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

PhazonLink posted:

~~I think that was a joke but~~ edit: corrected.

the Koch bros are hosed up. There are actual three Koch bros, but the ones throw around all this dark money are the 2nd and 3rd sons. The eldest son got blackmailed by them and got his inheritance screwed/got a slightly smaller giant pile of money because he was probably gay.

Is the older one the guy who collects castles?

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:41

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

Hollismason posted:

Pretty sure the President can only pardon crimes of murder if it is related to a federal law. Most murders fall under State jurisdiction.

So like if someone I think murdered a bunch of people on a boat the President could pardon that

Now that I know it's possible for Trump to brag about committing a state crime, pardon himself, and then find out he can't do that, I'm 100% convinced it will happen.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:44

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

That's just a matter of drafting. "I didn't do anything, but just to defeat the lies of my many enemies, I pardon myself and my lovely wonderful children of anything they or I may be accused of" etc.

Again, the goal isn't a valid legal pardon: the goal is gumming up the works.

That seems highly inadvisable. And the works are pretty much all gummed up as it is.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:48

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

CmdrRiker posted:

That seems highly inadvisable. And the works are pretty much all gummed up as it is.

That's why you give it to the attorney and don't admit it exists until it's needed.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:49

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

PerniciousKnid posted:

Now that I know it's possible for Trump to brag about committing a state crime, pardon himself, and then find out he can't do that, I'm 100% convinced it will happen.

And then his attorneys will make the better (but still flawed) argument that a state arrest of the president would be an interference with operation of the federal government (or whatever the appropriate language is).

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:50

Skex: Feb 22, 2012; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Groovelord Neato posted:

as a country we are never going to live this poo poo down.

Counter Point NAZI Germany and Imperial Japan
As bad as Trump is and as dark as this time may be, there have definitely been worse.

ekeog posted:

he was Greg W. Bush's vice president

That would be Dick Cheney.
(Has anyone ever been more appropriately named?)

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:51

Robot Hobo: May 18, 2002; robothobo.com

PerniciousKnid posted:

Now that I know it's possible for Trump to brag about committing a state crime, pardon himself, and then find out he can't do that, I'm 100% convinced it will happen.

Well, he asked Russia to hack the election, and they did. He also said he could shoot someone in the street and get away with it, so figure that'll happen at some point.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:52

Aves Maria!: Jul 26, 2008; Maybe I'll drown

Skex posted:

That would be Dick Cheney.
(Has anyone ever been more appropriately named?)

the joke
/
/
/
/
you

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:52

AceOfFlames: Oct 9, 2012

PhazonLink posted:

~~I think that was a joke but~~ edit: corrected.

the Koch bros are hosed up. There are actual three Koch bros, but the ones throw around all this dark money are the 2nd and 3rd sons. The eldest son got blackmailed by them and got his inheritance screwed/got a slightly smaller giant pile of money because he was probably gay.

Speaking of "Dark Money", anyone here read the book of the same name? I ask because I read the synopsis on Blinkist and it looked pretty fascinating until the last page literally had the sentence "Yet there is one billionaire who can afford the might Kochtopus: Donald Trump" and had Trump's "Crippled America" as "Suggested Reading". Is the author a Trump supporter? Preliminary research doesn't seem to show that. Does the real book have a pro Trump bias or is this some sort of sinister psyop on behalf of whoever "recapped" this?

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:53

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

That's why you give it to the attorney and don't admit it exists until it's needed.

If it's that simple then why didn't Nixon just pardon himself?

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:54

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

There's no precedent for a president using a pardon when he's not walking out the door so it's impossible to gauge what the reaction would be.

Sadly very similar to all the other career ending scandals, and im sure very disturbing to one or two specific senators

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:54

skylined!: Apr 6, 2012; THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON

bill

bill cheney

he looka like a man

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:55

eyebeem: Jul 18, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Skex posted:

That would be Dick Cheney.
(Has anyone ever been more appropriately named?)

Wonderful.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:56

Madkal: Feb 11, 2008; Fallen Rib

WeAreTheRomans posted:

who the fuq is bill cheney

Brother of Hillary Ghazi

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:56

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

trump will definitly tweet about this soon: https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/6/15923722/tv-network-ratings-nielsen-viewership

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:57

eyebeem: Jul 18, 2013; by R. Guyovich

FizFashizzle posted:

There's no precedent for a president using a pardon when he's not walking out the door so it's impossible to gauge what the reaction would be.

Sadly very similar to all the other career ending scandals, and im sure very disturbing to one or two specific senators

Trump Thread III: There's no precedent for a president...

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:57

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# ? May 24, 2024 21:38

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

eyebeem posted:

Trump Thread III: There's no precedent for a president...

That's not as clever as you think it is. :P

Captain Invictus posted:

the easiest answer to why trump hasn't pardoned everyone yet is because it would cause total anarchy, Washington D.C. at the very minimum would burn.

Not that he cares about that but I'm sure people have advised him against doing it heavily. I think there's a lot of loving outraged people who are only being held in check because of the mueller investigation and the assumption that justice will be served. However tenuous that may actually be.

When Russia is involved, they should know better than waiting out the opposition. At least by now.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 23:04

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