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CJacobs posted:Does Sonic Generations even have any enemies that can harm you if you're boosting? They just get knocked right outta the way no matter what they are iirc. Enemies in the Sonic As A Race Car games are less about hurting you and more about being used as a way to meter the amount of boost you have left- you want to steer into them so that you can get more boost out of destroying them. Generations specifically I can't remember, but in general for other boost games yeah there were several enemies that would be obstacles for you to try to boost through. They were usually spread out between the last zones in their games though. The point I was mostly trying to bring up was that the article was talking about this, lamenting about the game's faults in a tone that reads like every 2009-ish article that claimed Sonic was truly dead after Unleashed, all from the first zone and it's lack of threat. Historically, first zones in Sonic games usually don't present many threats to the players. I'm not really a fan of judging games purely from their beginning segments, knowing how many deceptive cases there have been in video games (and before someone else brings it up, I also highly disagree with the Super Bunnyhop video on Sonic zone 1's, but that's a separate topic). So I feel that the "Forces is rough to the point of being comical" headline is very misleading. Shinjobi posted:
Ah, that's fair. To me that felt like a small bullet point to the whole article so I overlooked it. That would be worrisome if they are having issues on the Switch, but I'm holding out hope that it's just due to the Switch being relatively newer hardware and that they'll be able to stabilize the framerate in time. Mr. Fortitude posted:
I mean, this is kinda the direction they were going in Sonic Advance 2, where the ill-named-in-hindsight Boost mode couldn't be achieved on the fly. Only from good movement in the stages, long running segments, or boost pads could give you that effect, and it was up to the player to maintain boost mode by navigating the stages well. It's like a different take on the time traveling mechanics from CD but even more integral to the gameplay (and, imo, less annoying). Ventana fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 20:40
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Ventana posted:I'm not really a fan of judging games purely from their beginning segments, knowing how many deceptive cases there have been in video games (and before someone else brings it up, I also highly disagree with the Super Bunnyhop video on Sonic zone 1's, but that's a separate topic). So I feel that the "Forces is rough to the point of being comical" headline is very misleading. But then I disagree with just about everything people say about Sonic design principles.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:45
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Spiderdrake posted:I'd be interested in your opinions on that video. I disagree with the secondary point he made, although I think his primary point was pretty spot on (Which is essentially 'what the gently caress, Sonic Team, what are you doing?') To save myself a long rear end post: Spiderdrake posted:I disagree with just about everything people say about Sonic design principles. is basically the jist. I felt he took a lot of the wrong things from pretty much every zone, and was wrong about how those aspects were applied to the rest of the zones in those games. Even when it came to the Genesis games (or, at least, definitely was not the case for Sonic 1 and CD where there was a lot of variation between the different zone structures). edit: I mean, fwiw, I've seen quite a number of SBH videos and I mostly have never agreed with his opinions. It's okay by me if we are just on different wavelengths Ventana fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 21:00
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Ventana posted:edit: I mean, fwiw, I've seen quite a number of SBH videos and I mostly have never agreed with his opinions. It's okay by me if we are just on different wavelengths At least the Sonic video was interesting stuff, I'd love to see like... Cybershell or some other lunatic do that, just to hear them break around Shadow. I suspect SBH will do a good video on mania, too. But anyway if you ever get bored fire it off.
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Jul 10, 2017 21:35
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Ventana posted:I mean, this is kinda the direction they were going in Sonic Advance 2, where the ill-named-in-hindsight Boost mode couldn't be achieved on the fly. Only from good movement in the stages, long running segments, or boost pads could give you that effect, and it was up to the player to maintain boost mode by navigating the stages well. It's like a different take on the time traveling mechanics from CD but even more integral to the gameplay (and, imo, less annoying). Yeah but Sonic Advance 2's problem was always more about the level design than gameplay mechanics. Dimps came up with a neat idea for the boost mechanic and then made levels which didn't really utilize it very well and had instant death pits everywhere, in one case in particular for going too fast and not being able to see where you're going on the GBA screen. It's funny then that Sonic Advance 3 feels like an overcorrection by making the levels sprawling, confusing and unfun because it often completely kills your momentum.
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Jul 10, 2017 21:47
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Spiderdrake posted:Yeah I totally disagree with him all the time (and I want to punch him in the face over the sobbing WiiU failure video, the nintendo fan revisionist history thing on youtube is just aggravating as gently caress) but his videos are good at just, I don't know, actually presenting some sort of argument. I really adore his videos on how much hate he got over saying this console generations is kind of a wet fart. Also the taxman history was good, everyone should watch that, since it shows some respect from outside the fandom for the fandom. Yes I agree, he does do good videos overall. I put him in the same category as like Jim Sterling or Larry Bundy Jr. These guys do good reporting on video game topics and try to do research or shine light on things generally not brought up by others (either due to controversy or from obscurity). But when it comes to any actual opinions on the games themselves, I usually don't agree with them. And I agree about the taxman history video as well. In rewatching parts of the video, I feel like I exaggerated a little and want to clarify what I feel about it. The core idea of his video is pretty much a "History of Sonic" video from a consumer perspective with a dash of following the direction of Sonic Team. And those parts he generally gets things right in recounting the general direction of the series. It's this stuff that I feel is supposed to be the real meat of the video, and if it was just that stuff + some more detail about Sonic Team's transitions then I'd like it a lot more. What I disagree with his the gimmick he rolls that idea into (playing only the first stages) and thus also his conclusions from that. Sonic Heroes is the blatant example of where he totally missed the problem, but even stuff like Unleashed or Lost World he misses a lot of the faults if you took the premise at its face. People don't like the werehog, but a lot of it's issues (and general other issues in Unleashed) aren't felt too hard in Windmill Isle, and Windy Hill zone does not at all represent the issues in Lost World and I'd say if anything goes against his general points of feature bloat. He said it himself within the first 2 minutes of the video: "Seriously, the idea of this video is like cheating". He knows it's just a gimmick idea that in reality doesn't really reflect how the games are. As someone who usually gets very indepth with the games I play, even lovely ones or ones I don't like, it's a perspective that just sits wrong with me. For what he tried to do with this video style, it's probably okay for an outsider perspective, but I prefer something a little more meatier (like for example, I thought Cybershell's Sonic 4 video was pretty good when it came to Episode 2). I hope that expands on it better for you. I could break down each game and poo poo with my own opinions, but that'd be super loving long and I won't have time this week between meeting up with friends + moving out of my apartment for a while. Maybe if the SBH comes up and I'm not as busy (which I assume it will at some point). Mr. Fortitude posted:Yeah but Sonic Advance 2's problem was always more about the level design than gameplay mechanics. Dimps came up with a neat idea for the boost mechanic and then made levels which didn't really utilize it very well and had instant death pits everywhere, in one case in particular for going too fast and not being able to see where you're going on the GBA screen. It's funny then that Sonic Advance 3 feels like an overcorrection by making the levels sprawling, confusing and unfun because it often completely kills your momentum. I disagree with the point about advance 2 but half-agree about advance 3 (when it comes to the Boost Mode idea applied to their level designs). Advance 2 turned level design to be even more horizontally focused which benefited it's faster style, and being a faster/tighter kind of platformer that expected you to fail makes things like death pits fine (considering they would be just yet another thing to memorize and avoid). Sonic being that kind of strict trial-and-error design doesn't work for everyone, but it's a style that I like and felt Advance 2 handled well. The levels I felt didn't handle this well were only Hot crater, purely only because it has too many long stretches of running and otherwise fine, and Music Plant because it has way too many weird gimmicks that all act super weird when you are going at high speeds. Advance 3 definitely felt like an overcorrection to Advance 2, but I'd still say it was at least half good/half bad levels. Stages like Sunset Hill Act 3/Ocean Base Act 3/Chaos Angel Act 2 are all boring slogs. However I thought the pacing of Ocean Base Act 1/Cyber Track zones in general/Chaos Angel Act 1 were all perfectly fine for keeping a fast pace but retaining enough platforming gimmicks.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:22
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Jul 11, 2017 12:22
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Ventana posted:Yes I agree, he does do good videos overall. I put him in the same category as like Jim Sterling or Larry Bundy Jr. These guys do good reporting on video game topics and try to do research or shine light on things generally not brought up by others (either due to controversy or from obscurity). But when it comes to any actual opinions on the games themselves, I usually don't agree with them. And I agree about the taxman history video as well. I like Larry Bundy Jr. He's a pretty funny guy. I don't think he really does reviews though, his videos are more like, top 10s of weird gaming poo poo. He's friends with Stewart Ashen, who like Jim Sterling is a British man who always wears a suit and tie for some reason, but Ashens is actually charming, witty and has a likable personality. I dunno if you can say Ashens is like... a video game personality or anything, though. He's a guy who basically just talks about horrible knockoff toys and unsafe food he found at Poundland and sometimes awful old ZX Spectrum games.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:23
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Thinking about sonic today- what kinda drink do you all think sonic would order at a bar? Surely a man with as much on his plate needs to cool his heels from time to time (no offense if sonic doesn't drink due to moral/religious reasons) 🍸
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Jul 11, 2017 15:41
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beep by grandpa posted:Thinking about sonic today- what kinda drink do you all think sonic would order at a bar? Surely a man with as much on his plate needs to cool his heels from time to time (no offense if sonic doesn't drink due to moral/religious reasons) 🍸 Sonic's official stance is that only dumb-bots drink liquor.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:48
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beep by grandpa posted:Thinking about sonic today- what kinda drink do you all think sonic would order at a bar? Surely a man with as much on his plate needs to cool his heels from time to time (no offense if sonic doesn't drink due to moral/religious reasons) 🍸 He doesn't drink, but he does do speedballs.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:49
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beep by grandpa posted:Thinking about sonic today- what kinda drink do you all think sonic would order at a bar? Surely a man with as much on his plate needs to cool his heels from time to time (no offense if sonic doesn't drink due to moral/religious reasons) 🍸 He's 15.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:54
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Dabir posted:He's 15. So? He's a woodland creature and also doesn't live on our earth under our western laws. Open your eyes dude and get on my level...smh
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Jul 11, 2017 15:55
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Well if he's going to a bar they're still gonna have laws about underage drinking there. And he's 15.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:58
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sorry beep, but dabir's got you on this one
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Jul 11, 2017 16:00
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Dabir posted:He's 15. That's 105 in hedgehog years
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Jul 11, 2017 16:01
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Dabir posted:He's 15. He's 26.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:02
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Dabir posted:Well if he's going to a bar they're still gonna have laws about underage drinking there. And he's 15. My uncle, who works for Sonic Team, said that the drinking age in those games is 14.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:03
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I was just super excited to have a fun thinking exercise with my sonic friends... Sigh 
"As you move along in your life, keep an open mind and (don't forget) if you gotta do something, believe in yourself."
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Jul 11, 2017 16:23
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I'll ask the big man himself!
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Jul 11, 2017 16:24
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Chili dog juice
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Jul 11, 2017 16:25
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Tonic the Hedgehog
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Jul 11, 2017 16:27
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Sonic wouldn't drink because it would make him slower, obviously.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:28
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When I went to Sonic Boom back whenever the first (second? IDK) one in San Diego was, they had Sonic cocktails. I forget what it tasted like but drinking with my friends while watching the live Crush 40 concert was a swell time  I'm just sad I lost the Mario advertisement that I had a confused Iizuka sign.
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Jul 11, 2017 16:40
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Overbite posted:Tonic the Hedgehog 
BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 18:23
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Overbite posted:Tonic the Hedgehog Drink and Learn! Sucking on the mouth of a bottle!
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Jul 11, 2017 18:25
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I bought a copy of that years ago and the drat cartridge never worked I think the PCB is actually slightly cracked, to boot, so no wonder
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Jul 11, 2017 18:26
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Sonic is 15, so he'd have to sneak some crappy beer from a gas station or something like that. So, I'd say Sonic drinks Bud Light Lime.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:22
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https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/06/04/nerd-food-sonic-the-hedgehog-speed-energy-drink/
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Jul 12, 2017 15:42
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Sonic drinks chili.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:49
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Sonic would deffo do Red Bull Vodka shots. Or maybe White Russians, cause they would cool you down nicely after chomping down a whole chilli dog.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:30
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Speaking of Bad Sonic, I would like to say that Sonic Free Riders is worse then both Black Knight and Secret Rings, suprisingly mostly due to the same reason - really lovely gimmick controls. The first Riders game was an okay expansion of the Sonic R idea, plus it actually included villains with actual motivations and has a suprisingly good story for a racing game. I have to admit Riders must have been my first Sonic game I did a 100% in, cause I liked it a lot at the time. Second was Shadow 
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Jul 12, 2017 16:34
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This is a pretty fascinating article on Rise of Lyric's development: https://twitter.com/tssznews/status/884979677747654657
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Jul 12, 2017 18:17
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quote:Design wise, many changes were made on the characters to make them more similar to “legacy Sonic” look. Several NPC characters had to be radically changed due to them violating Sonic Team design guidelines. One of them was Cliff, originally an inventor. Only Tails and Eggman can be inventors.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:34
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https://twitter.com/SEGA_Ent/status/885047416617086978
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Jul 12, 2017 19:13
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Schwarzwald posted:This is a pretty fascinating article on Rise of Lyric's development: If by fascinating you mean horrifying I agree. Jesus that's a LOT of executive meddling, now I feel pity towards Big Red Button.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:31
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My read is that a large portion of it was inevitable due to the console selected, and a lot else was to be expected given how many liberties they were taking with the content.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:34
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I mean, "only Tails and Eggman are allowed to be inventors" is a bit draconian, if you ask me.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:40
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Discendo Vox posted:My read is that a large portion of it was inevitable due to the console selected This sounds right, but I can't tell if you mean to say here if it was the Wii U's fault for being underpowered. The Wii U was certainly underpowered but definitely still could handle plenty of games (including Lost World!), so I kinda want to summarize the timing of events from the article to make it clear: -BRB comes up with game idea, and builds a vertical slice demo for Sega before Wii U is a thing -BRB gives vertical slice demo to Sega, presumably made in Cry Engine 3 -More details of Wii U come out -Sega makes deal with Nintendo about the 3 Sonic games, wanting to include the new BRB game -BRB now scrambles to try and make Cry Engine 3 work on Wii U It just sounds like an unfortunate deal all around from both sides. BRB wanted to do an ambitious game which is maybe part of why they aimed to use Cry Engine 3, and they didn't know that they'd get dumped onto the Wii U. Sega really wanted a deal with Nintendo, and tried to push the new game on the unexpectedly weak console. Kinda sucks all around. also lol at this bit: quote:-Storyline wise, they made them discard the Sonic origins storyline as SEGA denied it, due to them planning to tell Sonic origins in the future ( or at least, that is what they told Big Red Button. fake edit: wait what the gently caress quote:-TV show also helped destroy their original idea. A designer pitched Sega the idea of a Sonic Tv Show. It was unrelated to the game, but 8 months before the game launch SEGA gave total control to the show team to change the game, making big changes to the storyline and making Knuckles dumb. They also asked for a richer universe with lots of characters that were totally absent in the series, along with filler cutscenes and levels due to the storyline change. No info on the previous storyline was revealed, except that ancients had a huge importance there. this is the dumbest thing
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Jul 12, 2017 20:05
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I highly doubt that Sonic Boom would have been good even without management interference from some cokehead suit at Sega who thought they knew better than actual game developers, but it certainly didn't help.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:48
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