Trump Thread II: The man make a tweet

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trump Thread II: The man make a tweet

Kylra: Dec 1, 2006; Not a cute boy, just a boring girl.

BiggerBoat posted:

"Fake Polls". "Fake News". Americans love bill this and want it. Media is lying again. MAGA." - A statement from the President.

That's fine for Trump but all the Rs in the house and senate kind of want to be reelected.

A dog

Kylra fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jul 11, 2017

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:56

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 16:35

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

Fart City posted:

Reading the right wing response to all of this is really interesting, because it really drives home the concept that in the modern political landscape there is nothing that is indefensible. The idea that what essentially amounts to evidence of foreign collision can somehow be moonwalked to "being transparent" is just like, you know, what can you do but throw up the What The gently caress hands?

"The Audacity of a Dope"

"Schemes of My Father"

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:56

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

BiggerBoat posted:

"Fake Polls". "Fake News". Americans love bill this and want it. Media is lying again. MAGA." - A statement from the President.

If that were really the case they wouldn't have lost their nerve on their initial plan to push it through as fast as possible after writing it in secret.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:56

eviltastic: Feb 8, 2004; Fan of Britches

OddObserver posted:

Isn't basically everything a money equivalent? And in-kind donations are certainly a thing.

Edit: undo phone autoincorrect from "in-kind" to in-network; US healthcare payment system sure sucks...

Information frequently won't be. Think something like an advance copy of debate questions, or the piss tape. It might be something people would pay money for, but that's not analogous to a cash donation in the way that, say, free hotel lodging would be.

e: to be clear, I'm not agreeing with Kerr, here, just explaining how much tapdancing you have to do to try to make this out to be possibly okay.

eviltastic fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 11, 2017

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:56

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

Learned a fun term today

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:57

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

DreamShipWrecked posted:

https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom/status/884844233554833410

Jesus Christ, even Joe Walsh?!

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:58

KickerOfMice: Jun 7, 2017; [/color]Keep firing, assholes![/color]

Spaceballs the custom title.; Fun Shoe

skylined! posted:

we haven't seen an honest-to-god sea lion in this thread in a bit

what.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:58

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

skylined! posted:

we haven't seen an honest-to-god sea lion in this thread in a bit

Yeah, I mean "I'm going to need to hear this form a lawyer" with numerous lawyers here and elsewhere going "holy poo poo why did he just incriminate himself"

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:58

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

Trump 2: BUT HIS EMAILS

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:58

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

KickerOfMice posted:

what.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:00

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

eviltastic posted:

The Code of Federal Regulations is more or less a bunch of rules and regulations put together to implement actual statutes. It's usually going to seem more complex than the root statute, which in this case is 52 U.S.C � 30121. The thing people are emphasizing is simple is that there doesn't need to be proof of a quid pro quo transaction (which likely happened and is also very bad), which is what you seem hung up on.

Like, the closest I've seen to a counterargument that what happened is OK is Orrin Kerr on Twitter arguing that the statute has to be read to be limited to money or money equivalents (which seems dumb to me).

The lawyers in the thread are also freaking out because of the nature of what the guy did, which is turn over the actual communication. That is, of itself, a significantly stupid thing to do independent of discussing the actual content.

there's a perverse joy in watching another lawyer get hosed over by a lovely client

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:00

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

eviltastic posted:

Information frequently won't be. Think something like an advance copy of debate questions, or the piss tape. It might be something people would pay money for, but that's not analogous to a cash donation in the way that, say, free hotel lodging would be.

Even given there were literally (Republicans) hiring a British ex-spy to do opposition research in this very campaign?

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:01

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

The Glumslinger posted:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

Do contributions include receiving information?

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:02

Madkal: Feb 11, 2008; Fallen Rib

I love how this story is "fake-news" proof seeing as it was their own guy who leaked the information. drat this administration and everyone involved are idiots.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:03

TyrantWD: Nov 6, 2010; Ignore my doomerism, I don't think better things are possible

https://twitter.com/reidepstein/status/884849418796773376

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:03

WeAreTheRomans: Feb 23, 2010; by R. Guyovich

CmdrRiker posted:

Do contributions include receiving information?

Would you say that, for example, 33,000 emails stolen from HRC's email server are a "thing of value" to anyone?

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:03

Chilichimp: Oct 24, 2006; TIE Adv xWampa

It wamp, and it stomp; Grimey Drawer

BiggerBoat posted:

"The Audacity of a Dope"

"Schemes of My Father"

"Deal of Defeat"

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:03

EndTimesProfit: Jul 1, 2004; Don't worry son, it's just the Smilin' Mighty Jesus!

CmdrRiker posted:

Do contributions include receiving information?

Analysis I saw said contribution is anything. Even sex.

Even pissing.

Piss tape is real.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:03

Erwin the German: May 30, 2011; :3

CmdrRiker posted:

Do contributions include receiving information?

The pertinent thing here would be "other thing of value," which I think you could make a reasonable case for right now.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:03

Hellblazer187: Oct 12, 2003

CmdrRiker posted:

Do contributions include receiving information?

Would damaging information be a "thing of value?" Would you value damaging information on a political opponent?

I don't know if it's ever been litigated but it seems it fits pretty well.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:04

aware of dog: Nov 14, 2016

CmdrRiker posted:

Do contributions include receiving information?

The Vox piece indicates that it does

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:04

Helen Highwater: Feb 19, 2014; And furthermore; Grimey Drawer

BiggerBoat posted:

"The Audacity of a Dope"

"Schemes of My Father"

The Art of the Squeal.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:05

Push El Burrito: May 9, 2006; Soiled Meat

That right there. That's a high quality son you got there.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:05

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

OddObserver posted:

Even given there were literally (Republicans) hiring a British ex-spy to do opposition research in this very campaign?

That's not a donation though. That's hiring someone to do research for you who just happens to be a foreign national.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:06

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

Young Freud posted:

Jesus Christ, even Joe Walsh?!

Walsh is typically the first of the right-wing twitterati to become Very Concerned whenever Trump does something egregious.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:06

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

TyrantWD posted:

https://twitter.com/reidepstein/status/884849418796773376

Punctuation jibes are extremely my poo poo

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:06

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Helen Highwater posted:

The Art of the Squeal.

thread titles of the future

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:07

pkay: Jan 4, 2005; "You and your ilk just made me vote downticket R in the midterms."
- a black man (- a magachud)

If the piss tape is leaked, do supporters finally concede or do they try to defend that as well. What would be their defense?

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:08

JasonV: Dec 8, 2003

I wonder if one of those Muller lawyers will try to argue that a presidential pardon can be an obstruction of justice depending on it's intent, and therefore not a valid pardon.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:09

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

DreamShipWrecked posted:

Holy mother of God. They aren't talking about general sanctions against the whole of the Russian government. Specific people were getting paid off for this

The person who met with Jr. was in the act BY NAME.

They met with Nayalya Veselnitskaya, who is a lobbyist against Magnitsky act, not Natalya Vinogradova, who in is named in it.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:09

Mustached Demon: Nov 12, 2016

loving glorious.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:09

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

Don't worry everyone. In 12-18 hours this whole thing will be about Hillary, Obama, CNN and the NYT and how Democrats have done this same thing consistently for decades. Hannity's got this. All of your conservative coworkers and friends will have their talking points organized by morning. These are the days of "alternative facts" after all.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:10

Mustached Demon: Nov 12, 2016

pkay posted:

If the piss tape is leaked, do supporters finally concede or do they try to defend that as well. What would be their defense?

They will be concerned.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:10

Chilichimp: Oct 24, 2006; TIE Adv xWampa

It wamp, and it stomp; Grimey Drawer

Madkal posted:

I love how this story is "fake-news" proof seeing as it was their own guy who leaked the information. drat this administration and everyone involved are idiots.

I can't stop laughing at this. If they'd just let the NYT post the story they could have just "fake news" and their base would have ignored it entirely.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:10

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Oracle posted:

That's not a donation though. That's hiring someone to do research for you who just happens to be a foreign national.

What I mean is that the Trump campaign was basically offered an equivalent service for free by the Russian government, which I think is evidence of that being a donation --- they get something for free from Russia that other campaigns spend money on.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:10

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

BiggerBoat posted:

All of your conservative coworkers and friends will have their talking points organized by morning.

gently caress 'em.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:11

Enigma89: Jan 2, 2007; by CVG

pkay posted:

If the piss tape is leaked, do supporters finally concede or do they try to defend that as well. What would be their defense?

If they weren't under-age it's technically legal..?

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:11

Chilichimp: Oct 24, 2006; TIE Adv xWampa

It wamp, and it stomp; Grimey Drawer

edit: I'm dumb

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:12

Waffles Inc.: Jan 20, 2005

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/07/donald-trump-jr-emails-steele-dossier/

piss tape is real

Motherjones posted:

Smoke, meet gun.

On Tuesday morning, there was a stunning development in the Trump-Russia scandal: Donald Trump Jr. confessed. In yet another bombshell story, the New York Times reported on emails showing that the president�s oldest son had eagerly accepted an offer of help during the 2016 campaign from what he understood to be the Russian government. Trump Jr., the Times disclosed, had set up a meeting with a Russian attorney in the hopes of receiving derogatory information on Hillary Clinton straight from Putin�s regime. As the Times was publishing this story, Trump Jr. tweeted out those same emails.

The emails reveal that top Trump campaign advisers Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner attended the meeting and suggests that all three Trump advisers colluded in what seemed to be a Russian government-backed attempt to hurt Clinton in order to help Trump win the presidency. This new development contradicts the long series of denials from Trump defenders who have claimed that there was no collusion, that there was no evidence Russian leader Vladimir Putin wanted Trump to win, and that the Trump-Russia affair is merely a hoax perpetuated by loser Democrats and fake news outlets.

The Trump Jr. emails also provide partial support for some information within the Steele dossier.

The Steele memos, which Mother Jones first reported on a week before Election Day, were compiled during the campaign by a former British intelligence officer named Christopher David Steele, who was hired by a Washington, DC, research firm retained to unearth information on Trump. The documents contained troubling allegations about Trump and his connections to Russia and relayed unverified salacious information about the candidate. The first memo, dated June 20 and based on the former intelligence officer�s conversations with Russian sources, stated, �Russian regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting TRUMP for at least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance.� It asserted that Russian intelligence had �compromised� Trump during his visits to Moscow and could �blackmail him.�

Steele made the memos available to the FBI during the campaign, and the bureau investigated some of the information they contained.

The memos made headlines after the election, when CNN reported that Trump, as president-elect, and President Barack Obama had been told about their contents during briefings on the intelligence community�s assessment that Putin had mounted a covert operation during the campaign to hack Democratic targets and disseminate stolen emails in order to benefit Trump.

Trump and his supporters have denounced the Steele memos as unsubstantiated trash, with some Trump backers concocting various conspiracy theories about them. Indeed, key pieces of the information within the memos have been challenged. But the memos were meant to be working documents produced by Steele�full of investigative leads and tips to follow�not finished reports, vetted and confirmed.

One interesting element of the Donald Trump Jr. emails now in the news is that they track with parts of the Steele memos.

In that first memo, dated June 20, Steele wrote that Trump �and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals.� The Trump Jr. email chain began on June 3, 2016. This was shortly after Trump had secured the Republican presidential nomination. It was that day that Rob Goldstone, a talent manager for middling pop-star named Emin Agaralov, contacted Trump Jr. and said that Emin�s father, Aras Agalarov, a Putin-friendly billionaire developer, had met with the �crown prosecutor of Russia� who offered to provide the Trump campaign with negative information on Clinton. The Agalarovs and Goldstone had a close relationship to the Trumps, because they all had worked together in 2013 to bring the Miss Universe pageant, which Trump owned at the time, to Moscow. (Part of the deal was that Emin would get to perform two songs.) Following that event, both Trumps worked with both Agalarovs to develop a major project in Moscow. (It never happened.)

This email from Goldstone to Trump Jr. led to a meeting six days later, where a Kremlin-connected Russian attorney spoke to Trump Jr., Kushner, and Manafort about negative information on Clinton. In a statement, Trump Jr. says that what she offered was vague and meaningless, suggesting there was nothing to it. (But Trump Jr. has dissembled repeatedly about this meeting.)

Let�s turn to Steele�s June 20 memo. It stated:

Source A confided that the Kremlin had been feeding TRUMP and his team valuable intelligence on his opponents, including Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON, for several years�This was confirmed by Source D, a close associate of TRUMP who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow, and who reported, also in June 2016, that this Russian intelligence had been �very helpful�.

The memo also reported that there was anti-Clinton information that Putin was sitting on:

A dossier of compromising material on Hillary CLINTON has been collated by the Russian intelligence services over many years and mainly comprises bugged conversations she had on various visits to Russia and intercepted phone calls rather than any embarrassing conduct. The dossier is controlled by Kremlin spokesman, PESKOV, directly on PUTIN�s orders. However it has not as yet been distributed abroad, including to TRUMP. Russian intentions for its deployment still unclear.

There has been no confirmation that Putin steadily fed information to Trump�s camp or that a Kremlin-controlled anti-Clinton dossier existed. But one of Steele�s overarching points in this memo was that Putin�s regime was funneling derogatory Clinton material to Trump. The Trump Jr. emails suggest that the Russian government was aiming to do that and that the Trump campaign was willing and eager to receive assistance from Putin. So Donald Trump Jr. has done what Steele could not: produce evidence that the Trump campaign was�or wanted to be�in cahoots with a foreign adversary to win the White House.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:12

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 16:35

KickerOfMice: Jun 7, 2017; [/color]Keep firing, assholes![/color]

Spaceballs the custom title.; Fun Shoe

BiggerBoat posted:

Don't worry everyone. In 12-18 hours this whole thing will be about Hillary, Obama, CNN and the NYT and how Democrats have done this same thing consistently for decades. Hannity's got this. All of your conservative coworkers and friends will have their talking points organized by morning. These are the days of "alternative facts" after all.

Yeah, but you don't have to tell us that now! Dick.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:12

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