PYF Things Dragging Games Down: finding a mullet in a treasure chest

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Nuebot: Feb 18, 2013; The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Leal posted:

Quick synthesis in ff14. If you craft an item you can do a quick synth of it where you just do 1 animation and its crafted. Its nice to quickly craft up a bunch of base materials. So the issue is it is rng if you fail or not (or get hqs) and I guess the chances increase on your level? Your item level? Your stats? hosed if I can find any concrete proof on the internet, but point is at level 70 with equally matching gear I still get a 40% failure rate on recipes at 62. So ok, I get it what you're saying. I'll just make a macro on my keyboard that I can press that'll hit numpad 0, wait half a second, numpad 0, 1, 1 and repeats to bulk craft these materials that I can finish in 2 actions while I walk away and do something else.

Never quick craft in FFXIV. It's never worth it and even at max level with the best stats you still have an insane chance to fail on the most basic items, and you will. Crafting in FFXIV is complete garbage and it's worse than the grinding the game expects you to do to raid.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 02:21

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# ? May 28, 2024 04:23

DoubleNegative: Jan 27, 2010; The most virtuous child in the entire world.

I know it's my own fault for playing this tire fire of an MMO, but I've been slowly working my way through the class campaigns of Star Wars: the Old Republic the past several weeks. The storytelling conventions are really starting to wear on me. Spend an entire conversation calling someone a useless prick and they'll still give you a quest at the end just the same as if you spent your time agreeing with them.

But what's really wearing on me are the designated planet bosses. Each planet you visit has a story arc for the planet, as well as one for your class. And for the most part, they're exactly the same. The designated boss du jour spends the first 3/4 of the quests in the arc being a smug prick and constantly being a step ahead of you. Then you corner them in the final zone of the planet and they continue being a smug prick until you beat them and you're given the light side choice to spare them, or the dark side choice to kill them. Every. loving. Time.

I just did a quest where I entered a top secret Republic prison that nobody even knew about. And right away, the head warden has been working for the Empire the whole time. He even designates my character as "a class 10 escapee" whatever that means. So I had to go find four items to fix a computer that immediately resolved the issue in the same quest where it was introduced. I'm sure the next time I go do a quest with this guy, he'll introduce another zero stakes problem that will get resolved within five minutes. Then I'll defeat him in combat and be given the choice to spare or kill his rear end.

Then repeat ad loving nauseam. Bioware storytelling is so tiresome.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 02:27

BIG FLUFFY DOG: Feb 16, 2011; On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

I really enjoyed Fallout 4 because my favorite part of the Fallout games has always been the unexpectedly optimistic theme of people slowly but steadily rebuilding civilization and taming the wastes, and I liked that settlement building took that theme that was relegated to the narrative and lore in the preceding games and made it a central game mechanic. My big thing dragging the game down is that there aren't any window pieces in the base game. Let my settlers look out at the scenery damnit! I'm trying to build a nice town.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 04:11

Guy Mann: Mar 28, 2016; by Lowtax

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

I really enjoyed Fallout 4 because my favorite part of the Fallout games has always been the unexpectedly optimistic theme of people slowly but steadily rebuilding civilization and taming the wastes, and I liked that settlement building took that theme that was relegated to the narrative and lore in the preceding games and made it a central game mechanic. My big thing dragging the game down is that there aren't any window pieces in the base game. Let my settlers look out at the scenery damnit! I'm trying to build a nice town.

Fallout 1 does this really annoying thing where a good number of interactions in the game are hidden behind a text parser that you really have no reason to even mess with without using a guide, which is a shame because if you actually know what to do you can use it to get a ton of unique (sometimes voiced!) dialogue.

Your post reminded me of it because that's one of the ways to teach farmers in Shady Sands how to do crop rotation, but apparently it's also a marked dialogue option if your Science skill is high enough.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 04:50

Deified Data: Nov 3, 2015; Fun Shoe

Gerblyn posted:

. I just had to pretend that "Lawyer" was a cover for my secret CIA SpecOps training or something.

Same. Nora is 100% a wet work assassin in my headcanon.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 04:58

Jukebox Hero: Dec 27, 2007; stars in his eyes

Deified Data posted:

Same. Nora is 100% a wet work assassin in my headcanon.

Careful or you'll summon the hordes of big manly men to call you a homo for daring to think about non-explicit player character backstory in a fallout game

# ? Jul 12, 2017 12:52

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

SiKboy posted:

Finding Shaun is the reason you start exploring, then you are introduced to other actors in the world and the expectation is you start to take an interest in those.

Finding Liam Neeson is the reason you start exploring, then you are introduced to other actors in the world and the expectation is you start to take an interest in those.

Like, I know its a goon darling, possibly because people are hoping that if they slobber over it enough ropekid will acknowledge their existence, but the writing in NV is not really noticeably better or worse than FO3 or FO4. Its a better game, because they made marginal improvements to the mechanics, in a similar way to how GTA Vice City is a mechanical improvement on GTA3, but the main story really does more or less stop about 2 hours in, and ignoring travel time probably lasts a total of about 10 minutes. Its a revenge story where you get your revenge at the end of the first act and the boring epilogue is the entire rest of the games run time.

I know they were expecting players to give a gently caress about who controls the hoover dam/new vegas, but they kind of forgot to either write a compelling set of characters who could actually make me care about their fate or make the city of vegas seem important enough for me to feel like it makes a difference. With the characters they were going for a "shades of grey" thing, but they essentially ended up with "Well these ones are slave owning rapists, so the dull bureaucrats are the good guys by default". So we still have a good guy/bad guy split, but with the good guys being boring as hell and tedious to deal with. There is an option to keep control for yourself, but as the actual city of new vegas is essentially 2 screens with I think 3 casinos and a hotel, theres nothing there that seems worth the hassle of keeping it. In fact after my first play through I avoided the city of vegas as much as I could because every time you went into a casino you had a 3 minute successsion of "pistol removed. Power fist removed. Grenades removed." messages and there was nothing there fun enough to justify sitting through that multiple times. Basically they gave my character in the game, and by extension me as a player no personal stake in deciding the fate of the city, as a result I didnt give a gently caress who controlled it. (I did play it through 2 and a half times and see the different outcomes but that was to play more of the game not through any investment in the story). Speaking personally I prefer when a game give my character a personal motivation rather than a nebulous one. I'm more likely to be invested in and motivated by "rescue your buddy" or "Get revenge on this motherfucker who done you wrong" or, yes "find your missing family member" plots that I am "the fate of the world is in your hands!".

If they wanted an interesting "baddie" ending they could have let you blow the dam in the middle of the battle, would have been more interesting than "side with Caesar, except not really Caesar but his second in command who you never meet until the finale because we are terrified of fans criticising us for using the "essential" flag on a character but cant think of another way of stopping the player shortcutting the game and breaking mission by killing the villain 3 hours into the game"

And again, I played NV, I really enjoyed NV. Its just not a good story. Great GAME, but the main plot is actually weaker than the much maligned main plot from FO3. At least FO3 remembered to put the end of the story at the end of the game (pre DLC obviously). With New Vegas you could make a reasonable argument that the main plot is weaker and less coherent than the minimal strands tying the DLCs together. At least they built to a climax. Of course part of the problem is always going to be that the more freedom you give a player to dick around the more that is going to clash with any high-stakes story, which is one of the places that FO4 falls down for me; I'm fine with playing as a character with a partially set background, I'm fine with some details being pushed on you for the sake of the game story (In FO3 you couldnt be an orphan, in NV you had to be a courier, in FO2 you couldnt be a vault dweller, Skyrim you are someone who the imperials would think of a criminal, in witcher 3 you are not just a witcher but specifically Geralt, a character with a half dozen books of specific characterisation), but the urgency of "Your child has been kidnapped" did not mesh with the way I play these games (sidequest ocd combined with compulsive packrat kleptomania). In earlier games this was also true, but Liam Neeson was a grown rear end man who could reasonably be expected to look after himself for a bit while I cosplayed as Abe Lincoln and cleared out the Lincoln memorial. A missing child is obviously a lot more urgent.

Another big problem particular to FO4 was that I figured out that Shaun was now grown up long before the main character did. He was still asking people about his infant son long after we had seen Shaun had been old enough to walk around and talk in a flashback scene that was explicitly "some years ago". I had to assume that the cryosleep had caused some form of low level brain damage in the character. Which also explains why hes running around intimidating people dressed as a pulp radio show character instead of following up those clues about the location of his child.

tl:dr: Things dragging NV down; the main story is weak as hell, and the actual city of vegas is built up through dialogue only to be a massive disappointment when you see it or actually try to interact with it. And people who insist its the only "real" fallout game of modern times who take any criticism of the game as a personal attack. Other Fallout games have similar problems to greater or lesser extents because its a consequence of trying to marry a "go anywhere do anything!" gameplay bullet point with a "Epic high stakes story!" bullet point. The only solution would be to have a timer, visible or not, that ticks down in the background until the game decides "you've dicked around too much now" and moves to a main story fail state. I would personally hate that so much that it would put me off the games, but it would give the game the same urgency as the story.

cool story bro

Pen and paper role playing is great fun because pretty much everything is a variable at the storytellers(DMs) whim. Videogames are more constrained because it's a loving videogame, not a friend guiding a story around your characters actions. If you can't separate the two, it's a mystery you can even navigate the login field on this forum you loving idiots. Stop being autismo megalomaniacs and realise the world doesn't cater to your whim, play games in the constraints they're built in. It's not that loving hard and shouldn't even be an argument. Some loving people :psyduck:

# ? Jul 12, 2017 13:45

Yardbomb: Jul 11, 2011; What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

SwissDonkey posted:

Stop being autismo megalomaniacs and realise the world doesn't cater to your whim, play games in the constraints they're built in.

Bethesda could also just try and make better paced or written or whatever, more focused games but then that's unfortunately not looking promising.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 13:55

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

SwissDonkey posted:

cool story bro

Pen and paper role playing is great fun because pretty much everything is a variable at the storytellers(DMs) whim. Videogames are more constrained because it's a loving videogame, not a friend guiding a story around your characters actions. If you can't separate the two, it's a mystery you can even navigate the login field on this forum you loving idiots. Stop being autismo megalomaniacs and realise the world doesn't cater to your whim, play games in the constraints they're built in. It's not that loving hard and shouldn't even be an argument. Some loving people

This issue has already been discussed. The topic's been dead for days now. What's the point of this post besides making a blanket statement against other people here?

Why are people so willing to make this mediocre game the hill to die on? Who gives a poo poo?

Earth Defense Force 4.1

HECTORS are terrible. I wouldn't mind them if they spawned like two per swarm but they drop like twelve at a time and are more bullet spongey than any other unit up until then and have ridiculous weapons that I can't outrun as a Ranger.

I really hope later weapons help take them down faster.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 13:58

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Yardbomb posted:

Bethesda could also just try and make better paced or written or whatever, more focused games but then that's unfortunately not looking promising.

They're not gonna, though.

They know people will buy whatever they sell, regardless of quality because they're a known brand at this point and because they won't distribute review copies of their games anymore.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:01

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

Yardbomb posted:

Bethesda could also just try and make better paced or written or whatever, more focused games but then that's unfortunately not looking promising.

I agree that Bethesda can't write for poo poo (good god do I agree with this, I think my farts are more agreeable to the average person compared to the garbage these idiots pump out), but arguing that your immersion in role playing your super unique character in a videogame is broken because the writing doesn't fit your character is purely on you. Videogames, not tailored-for-you-the-one-particular-consumer-out-of-millions-game. Yes, the degree of flexibility in New Vegas vs Fallout 4 is drastically different, but to expect any degree of leniency in a fixed format media is a bad idea.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:01

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

You can have any character you like, so long as it's Nate.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:09

RareAcumen: Dec 28, 2012

SwissDonkey posted:

I agree that Bethesda can't write for poo poo (good god do I agree with this, I think my farts are more agreeable to the average person compared to the garbage these idiots pump out), but arguing that your immersion in role playing your super unique character in a videogame is broken because the writing doesn't fit your character is purely on you. Videogames, not tailored-for-you-the-one-particular-consumer-out-of-millions-game. Yes, the degree of flexibility in New Vegas vs Fallout 4 is drastically different, but to expect any degree of leniency in a fixed format media is a bad idea.

Action Tortoise posted:

This issue has already been discussed. The topic's been dead for days now. What's the point of this post besides making a blanket statement against other people here?

Why are people so willing to make this mediocre game the hill to die on? Who gives a poo poo?

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:09

poptart_fairy: Apr 8, 2009; by R. Guyovich

I will end this derail by quoting and adding to the discussion thereof!

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:11

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Action Tortoise posted:

This issue has already been discussed. The topic's been dead for days now. What's the point of this post besides making a blanket statement against other people here?

Why are people so willing to make this mediocre game the hill to die on? Who gives a poo poo?

Earth Defense Force 4.1

HECTORS are terrible. I wouldn't mind them if they spawned like two per swarm but they drop like twelve at a time and are more bullet spongey than any other unit up until then and have ridiculous weapons that I can't outrun as a Ranger.

I really hope later weapons help take them down faster.

They die really quickly to the Air Raider Vegaltas.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:15

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

RBA Starblade posted:

They die really quickly to the Air Raider Vegaltas.

Gotta replay some early missions to try that class out. Some of them definitely look like they'd be the best class to handle these threats but I've been trying to see if I can clear every mission as a Ranger.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:21

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Action Tortoise posted:

Gotta replay some early missions to try that class out. Some of them definitely look like they'd be the best class to handle these threats but I've been trying to see if I can clear every mission as a Ranger.

Are you playing singleplayer? I couldn't imagine beating half the levels as just a ranger, the weapons don't really seem sufficient.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:27

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

RBA Starblade posted:

Are you playing singleplayer? I couldn't imagine beating half the levels as just a ranger, the weapons don't really seem sufficient.

Yep.

I'm playing it whenever HITMAN can't connect online so I haven't really delved into the mechanics yet.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:35

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Action Tortoise posted:

Yep.

Holy poo poo you're way better at the game than I am then.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:37

RareAcumen: Dec 28, 2012

poptart_fairy posted:

I will end this derail by quoting and adding to the discussion thereof!

Well we can always count on you to keep the peace huh champ?

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:39

Jukebox Hero: Dec 27, 2007; stars in his eyes

Action Tortoise posted:

Yep.

I'm playing it whenever HITMAN can't connect online so I haven't really delved into the mechanics yet.

Play some early levels on hard, then hardest, then inferno so you can get a few superguns and can dip into the higher difficulties earlier on

# ? Jul 12, 2017 14:47

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

RBA Starblade posted:

Holy poo poo you're way better at the game than I am then.

This is how far I got as Ranger until I couldn't hack it. I dunno if that's normal.

Jukebox Hero posted:

Play some early levels on hard, then hardest, then inferno so you can get a few superguns and can dip into the higher difficulties earlier on

# ? Jul 12, 2017 15:32

poptart_fairy: Apr 8, 2009; by R. Guyovich

RareAcumen posted:

Well we can always count on you to keep the peace huh champ?

Yes.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 15:41

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

poptart_fairy posted:

I will end this derail by quoting and adding to the discussion thereof!

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by quoting some bullshit and summarizing a similar sentiment in a completely different way than another poster who had a similar sentiment as I did but didn't explain their point beyond "It dum ok?"

SwissDonkey has a new favorite as of 16:49 on Jul 12, 2017

# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:36

poptart_fairy: Apr 8, 2009; by R. Guyovich

It was a direct reference to the people complaining about derails while continuing it, you overly defensive weenie.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:38

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

poptart_fairy posted:

It was a direct reference to the people complaining about derails while continuing it, you overly defensive weenie.

Yeah, I get that, I didn't expect to end the derail by posting what I did. It was a point to make that so many people tried to articulate but fell over themselves in a defense of their favourite dumb shootmans in the process to actually, you know, make the point.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:48

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

y'all are both dumb and haven't added anything to the thread.

SwissDonkey posted:

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by quoting some bullshit and summarizing a similar sentiment in a completely different way than another poster who had a similar sentiment as I did but didn't explain their point beyond "It dum ok?"

Imagine having a discussion on the economy and someone butts in talking about how money has no intrinsic value and you're dumb for buying into it and running in the rat race like every other idiot.

That's what you all sound like when you go for the "these games aren't 1:1 tabeltop experiences so it's not worth discussing" argument. We loving know they're CYOA games at best with some stat allocations.

You're not Dr. loving Manhattan; we see the strings too.

We're talking about how successful they are on their own merits to allow people to express themselves with the rules they present. Gay Dr. Who in the Mojave is an extreme example, yet people like to parade that poo poo around here like some mark of shame for wanting to talk about this poo poo.

I don't give two shits about Fallout, but gently caress whoever comes in here wanting to shut down discussion just because the topic du jour is a game they like.

Bickering over the semantics of what should be considered role-playing games is the most PYF and bitchmade thing.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:52

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

Action Tortoise posted:

y'all are both dumb and haven't added anything to the thread.

Imagine having a discussion on the economy and someone butts in talking about how money has no intrinsic value and you're dumb for buying into it and running in the rat race like every other idiot.

That's what you all sound like when you go for the "these games aren't 1:1 tabeltop experiences so it's not worth discussing" argument. We loving know they're CYOA games at best with some stat allocations.

You're not Dr. loving Manhattan; we see the strings too.

We're talking about how successful they are on their own merits to allow people to express themselves with the rules they present. Gay Dr. Who in the Mojave is an extreme example, yet people like to parade that poo poo around here like some mark of shame for wanting to talk about this poo poo.

I don't give two shits about Fallout, but gently caress whoever comes in here wanting to shut down discussion just because the topic du jour is a game they like.

That's a lot of words in response to me just trying to poo poo on Tiggum, man.

Also your argument is kind of dumb because "I can't express myself in the rules I was given in Fallout 4, it's different from expressing myself in the rules of NV", or loving Prey or Deus Ex; is just spergin' as all get out. It's a game, it's written by people, play it or don't. Bitch about the story itself, not how much your character could or couldn't be a special autism snowflake in your preferred jerkoff fantasy

# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:58

RyokoTK: Feb 12, 2012; I am cool.

Take the hint and shut up, idiot.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 16:58

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

SwissDonkey posted:

That's a lot of words in response to me just trying to poo poo on Tiggum, man.

Also your argument is kind of dumb because "I can't express myself in the rules I was given in Fallout 4, it's different from expressing myself in the rules of NV", or loving Prey or Deus Ex; is just spergin' as all get out. It's a game, it's written by people, play it or don't. Bitch about the story itself, not how much your character could or couldn't be a special autism snowflake in your preferred jerkoff fantasy

Hold the L, dumbass

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:00

scarycave: Oct 9, 2012; Dominic Beegan:
Exterminator For Hire

Posting. Posting never changes.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:01

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

Guy with six posts in the thread: These aren't role playing games, you spergs.

Everyone else: this poo poo, again?

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:02

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

RyokoTK posted:

Take the hint and shut up, idiot.

Thanks for you input, man. In the thread about Things Dragging This Game Down (notably not mental health issues dragging your life down). Wonderful contribution to the topic friend, I hope you are proud of yourself. Give yourself a big old pat on the back for your excellent and noteworthy addition to the topic at hand.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:03

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

SwissDonkey posted:

Thanks for you input, man. In the thread about Things Dragging This Game Down (notably not mental health issues dragging your life down). Wonderful contribution to the topic friend, I hope you are proud of yourself. Give yourself a big old pat on the back for your excellent and noteworthy addition to the topic at hand.

cool story bro

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:04

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

Action Tortoise posted:

cool story bro

Cooler 1up bro

Edit: Wait did I mass trigger some spergos?

vvvvvv Yes, yes I did.

SwissDonkey has a new favorite as of 17:07 on Jul 12, 2017

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:05

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

SwissDonkey posted:

Cooler 1up bro

Fantastic content my dude. This the good poo poo we needed at the table.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:06

Lunchmeat Larry: Nov 3, 2012

im going to suck someone's dick

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:09

Action Tortoise: Feb 18, 2012; A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

SwissDonkey posted:

Cooler 1up bro

Edit: Wait did I mass trigger some spergos?

vvvvvv Yes, yes I did.

SwissDonkey posted:

That's a lot of words in response to me just trying to poo poo on Tiggum, man.

Also your argument is kind of dumb because "I can't express myself in the rules I was given in Fallout 4, it's different from expressing myself in the rules of NV", or loving Prey or Deus Ex; is just spergin' as all get out. It's a game, it's written by people, play it or don't. Bitch about the story itself, not how much your character could or couldn't be a special autism snowflake in your preferred jerkoff fantasy

SwissDonkey posted:

Yeah, I get that, I didn't expect to end the derail by posting what I did. It was a point to make that so many people tried to articulate but fell over themselves in a defense of their favourite dumb shootmans in the process to actually, you know, make the point.

SwissDonkey posted:

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by quoting some bullshit and summarizing a similar sentiment in a completely different way than another poster who had a similar sentiment as I did but didn't explain their point beyond "It dum ok?"

Pot meet kettle

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:09

ilmucche: Mar 16, 2016; What did you say the strategy was?

I think all this arguing garners a thread title change. Mostly because the current one came about because of a complaint I made about subnautica ages ago

Content: I want to go back and play the first trails in the sky game because my old computer died halfway through, but I don't want to face the combat system where I cant choose my characters patching in fights. Go where I want you to!

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:10

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# ? May 28, 2024 04:23

SwissDonkey: Mar 29, 2007

Triggered Tortoise posted:

Pot meet kettle

uhhhhhhh hold up let me quote all your poo poo from the entire vidya thread mr notautistic

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:11

The Something Awful Forums > Main > Post Your Favorite: Carefully Curated > PYF Things Dragging Games Down: finding a mullet in a treasure chest

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