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Abugadu posted:There have been convictions in cases involving hypnosis for lighter behavior than that. The major difficulty, though, is that we're taught to believe hypnosis isn't real, that people are just acting or are in on a con, and then a prosecutor has to convince a jury that no, it actually has an effect. I wanted to read the study linked in the article but apparently it isn't public. Then I googled the writers and found a neat Arrested Development joke. https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/name/Michael_R_Nash_PhD_Knoxville_Tennessee_299941
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Jul 12, 2017 06:42
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Sarcopenia posted:I wanted to read the study linked in the article but apparently it isn't public. Then I googled the writers and found a neat Arrested Development joke. All i got was psychoanalitic
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Jul 12, 2017 06:58
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repeating posted:All i got was psychoanalitic The name of the website
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Jul 12, 2017 07:09
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Abugadu posted:
Ooooooh, you're joking. Now i get it. Though, to be fair, the best representation we have of an immortal undead serial killer stalking and murdering teenagers also came from Hollywood.
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Jul 12, 2017 07:13
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Solice Kirsk posted:Ooooooh, you're joking. Now i get it. Though, to be fair, the best representation we have of an immortal undead serial killer stalking and murdering teenagers also came from Hollywood. Not joking. But to be fair, all the other representations are usually Dracula doing the 'look into my eyes' thing.
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Jul 12, 2017 07:24
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Sarcopenia posted:The name of the website Holy poo poo whoosh
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Jul 12, 2017 07:29
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Abugadu posted:Not joking. But to be fair, all the other representations are usually Dracula doing the 'look into my eyes' thing. Uhhh yikes, how many people have you tried to hypnotize to have sex with you? 
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Jul 12, 2017 08:21
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Ah, yes. All that very real hypnosis going on in the world! Next thing you will tell me is that chiropractor s aren't real doctors!
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Jul 12, 2017 08:56
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Fly Molo posted:Uhhh yikes, how many people have you tried to hypnotize to have sex with you? None. I'm not a sociopath.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:19
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Cephalectomy posted:Ah, yes. All that very real hypnosis going on in the world! Next thing you will tell me is that chiropractor s aren't real doctors! Give it a try. As the hypnotist. Learn the Elman induction, find someone who's game, and try it for yourself.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:21
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Abugadu posted:None. I'm not a sociopath. OooOOoooOOO suck my diiiiiiick OOooOOoooO
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Jul 12, 2017 10:30
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Cumslut1895 posted:OooOOoooOOO suck my diiiiiiick OOooOOoooO Look, there's no video, no book, no study, no anything that'll convince a skeptic, other than trying it. I don't blame you, because it is fantastical. Just pointing out that I have nothing to gain from blowing whatever e-cred someone can have here, and which is more likely- that hundreds of entertainers, who probably don't make that much money, are paying people to be stooges for their show? Or that it may actually work?
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Jul 12, 2017 10:43
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Abugadu posted:You make an excellent point Fellatio Ghost. Kill yourself. But hypnotically. I mean, you said it works.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:45
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Kill yourself. But hypnotically. Well, I suck at self-hypnosis, so that's a barrier. But I think, theoretically, it could be done, probably via a slow poisoning combined with amnesia suggestions, a la Memento. But there's the whole guardian angel part of the subconscious, so questionable whether it'd fly.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:59
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Question for skeptics, though - in the Michael Fine case, were the six victims pretending? Going along with being molested? And why would an attorney, who knows how easy it is to confuse a jury, plead guilty before the trial in a case like this?
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Jul 12, 2017 11:03
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Okay so do it for real now.
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Jul 12, 2017 11:05
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http://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/authorities-scour-vast-farmland-missing-young-men-48559616 This is local to me and so sad and so scary. Four young men with mutual friends go missing last week, there's all sorts of speculation about drug deals gone bad and now they're digging up a 90 acre farm looking for evidence.
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Jul 12, 2017 11:21
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Abugadu posted:Question for skeptics, though - in the Michael Fine case, were the six victims pretending? Going along with being molested? No. I think sexual assault and how you react in that traumatic situation is complicated. But let's say you're right. Would you agree then that there's a big difference between someone being actively manipulated in a closed setting and someone... Well I don't know exactly what he could put into his mind that would cause that teenager to crash his car. It sounds like the "therapy" was strictly for helping with stress and not nefarious in any way. I am interested in reading some studies on it though. My boyfriend is a neuroscientist and he constantly reminds me of how weird the brain is. I'll ask him for some good sources on the subject when he gets home. Metal Geir Skogul posted:Kill yourself. But hypnotically. I know that you're obviously joking but can we not tell people to kill themselves? Jesus christ.
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Jul 12, 2017 14:32
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Abugadu posted:Goons love to make fun of Scott Adams for claiming to be a hypno sex wizard, but inducing an orgasm is a fairly simple thing to accomplish, on the difficulty scale of hypnotic effects. LMAO I prefer the old fashioned, physical way
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Jul 12, 2017 15:53
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Cumslut1895 posted:OooOOoooOOO suck my diiiiiiick OOooOOoooO Gonna give this a try, brb ed: Didn't work
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Jul 12, 2017 15:53
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Abugadu posted:Question for skeptics, though - in the Michael Fine case, were the six victims pretending? Going along with being molested? I can't point out strongly enough that things like "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" or "a preponderance of evidence" are fine or perhaps even admirable legal principles, but they are *really lovely epistemologies.*. Example: A whole lot of forensic "science" is total bullshit. Bitemark analysis, blood spatter analysis, etc. Arson investigations are notoriously based on bullshit. Courts have way too high an opinion of fingerprint analysis. The FBi for decades used a *totally* bullshit bullet analysis technique. Does this stop courts from sending people to jail on the basis of those things? Hell no. Does that make those things...not bullshit? Hell no. Phanatic has a new favorite as of 16:28 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 16:06
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Abugadu posted:which is more likely- that hundreds of entertainers, who probably don't make that much money, are paying people to be stooges for their show? Or that it may actually work? I have a hard time believing you're serious because this is literally how stage mind-reading works and people have been doing it for centuries. Do you really not know that mentalist acts plant stooges in the audience all the time, either for information-gathering or to act as "proof" that it works?
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Jul 12, 2017 16:43
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Guys, I'm totally a skeptic, but unless you can explain away these photos of fairies maybe you shouldn't be so closed-minded.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:49
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I'm not even sure there's actually an argument going on here. My read on the spread of opinions here looks pretty unified: Hypnosis as guided meditation: varies in individual effectiveness, could be largely placebo, who knows who cares, probably a questionable approach to guidance counseling either way. Hypnosis as causing random car accident after a dental appointment: unlikely.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:00
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Phanatic posted:Guys, I'm totally a skeptic, but unless you can explain away these photos of fairies maybe you shouldn't be so closed-minded. Leave Elsie and Frances out of this! 
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Jul 12, 2017 17:00
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Phanatic posted:Guys, I'm totally a skeptic, but unless you can explain away these photos of fairies maybe you shouldn't be so closed-minded. Start with this one please: 
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Jul 12, 2017 17:03
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Solice Kirsk posted:Start with this one please: Most unnerving part was that it sparked a copycat tooth collector. 
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Jul 12, 2017 17:13
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Sarcopenia posted:Most unnerving part was that it sparked a copycat tooth collector. That wasn't a copycat, that was a sequel. Yeah, they replaced The Rock with Larry the Cable Guy and thought that was good enough.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:20
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It's uncontroversial that false memories are a real phenomenon though, right? I don't buy stage hypnosis, but I can buy that some people are extra susceptible to suggestion when they're in a state akin to guided meditation. ETA: I once went to a hypnotism demonstration (at a college, purportedly real and not as part of a paid magic show) and instead of watching, closed my eyes and attempted to let myself be hypnotized. It did nothing, didn't even relax me. But then, meditation does nothing for me either, so I'd buy that YMMV. pookel has a new favorite as of 17:51 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 17:45
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False memories are a thing, but that's because memories as discrete persistent phenomena do not exist, and only get assembled in response to stimuli to fit some sort of functional demand - which essentially means that people remember what they want to remember, or what they feel they should remember. It has nothing to do with hypnosis.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:53
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pookel posted:It's uncontroversial that false memories are a real phenomenon though, right? I don't buy stage hypnosis, but I can buy that some people are extra susceptible to suggestion when they're in a state akin to guided meditation. False memories aren't a matter of hypnosis, they're just a matter of people doing what you tell them to do.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:53
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duz posted:
A chilling premonition of the 2020 and 2028 American Election cycle.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:55
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In high school I went to some hypnosis show and two of my friends got picked to go on stage. One was sent back to his seat and the other got to participate. The one who stayed "got hypnotized" and proceeded to make an absolute fool out of himself on stage in front of hundreds of people. When asked about it afterwards, he claimed he didn't remember any of it. While I'm much more willing to believe he just went along with it, it was still pretty crazy to see someone you know well, and who wasn't a class clown type at all, to proceed to thoroughly embarrass himself in a huge auditorium.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:11
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Phanatic posted:False memories aren't a matter of hypnosis, they're just a matter of people doing what you tell them to do.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:17
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duz posted:That wasn't a copycat, that was a sequel. 
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Jul 12, 2017 18:41
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RCarr posted:In high school I went to some hypnosis show and two of my friends got picked to go on stage. One was sent back to his seat and the other got to participate. The one who stayed "got hypnotized" and proceeded to make an absolute fool out of himself on stage in front of hundreds of people. When asked about it afterwards, he claimed he didn't remember any of it. While I'm much more willing to believe he just went along with it, it was still pretty crazy to see someone you know well, and who wasn't a class clown type at all, to proceed to thoroughly embarrass himself in a huge auditorium. I think James Randi said something like hypnosis is a chance for everyone to enjoy a lie together.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:41
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Solice Kirsk posted:I think James Randi said something like hypnosis is a chance for everyone to enjoy a lie together. People also underestimate how tough it is to be up on stage and call a performer out for being a bullshit artist. In the moment you just don't want to ruin the show.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:31
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pookel posted:I mentioned it as a similar phenomenon (the mind and one's perceptions being affected by outside input) not as an example of hypnosis. You said "extra susceptible to suggestion when in a state akin to guided meditation." False memories don't necessarily have anything to do with people being extra susceptible to suggestion, or in a state akin to guided meditation. They have to be with memory being a fuzzy malleable thing and people being eager to please.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:55
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I can literally ask you if you saw the stop sign at the intersection two blocks back and there's a good chance that you'll remember it even if it doesn't exist. You don't need a hypno ray to gently caress with memories.
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Jul 12, 2017 20:24
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fruit on the bottom posted:I can literally ask you if you saw the stop sign at the intersection two blocks back and there's a good chance that you'll remember it even if it doesn't exist. You don't need a hypno ray to gently caress with memories. I'm sitting at a computer desk, why would I think I had recently been driving, never mind that I saw a stop sign? You sound stupid.
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Jul 12, 2017 20:52
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