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putin is a cunt
Apr 5, 2007

BOY DO I SURE ENJOY TRASH. THERE'S NOTHING MORE I LOVE THAN TO SIT DOWN IN FRONT OF THE BIG SCREEN AND EAT A BIIIIG STEAMY BOWL OF SHIT. WARNER BROS CAN COME OVER TO MY HOUSE AND ASSFUCK MY MOM WHILE I WATCH AND I WOULD CERTIFY IT FRESH, NO QUESTION
Reading this forum is cathartic. It's nice knowing that I'm not alone in my frustrations.

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metztli
Mar 19, 2006
Which lead to the obvious photoshop, making me suspect that their ad agencies or creative types must be aware of what goes on at SA
Today two things that aren't particularly bad happened back to back that caused me to start sending out feelers for a new gig (and I've already got some nibbles, hooray):

1) There was a meeting during which 8 people spent an hour deciding on whether or not an image in an email that maybe .5% of a quarter of our userbase ever even opens should be increased in size by, I poo poo you not, 2%. People in this meeting had opinions other than "who gives a gently caress?"

2) A DBA asked everyone in the company to please stop doing anything more complex than a simple select in Entity Framework because, even though the queries being generated by EF were still quite performant, they "looked weird." We told him to stop looking at them, then, and only pay attention to them if they are not performing well. He said that is not a solution because he will know they are there.

The most banal less-than-good elements of my job got to me, while working on a horrible, bloated, terribly constructed legacy codebase wherein daily I have to delve into the minutia of technology that's been replaced 2x over in the last 10 years wasn't enough to do it. Working with what is arguably the least capable product management team ever who are literally incapable of coming up with an interesting idea nor a coherent way to state it wasn't enough to do it. Working in an open office with acoustics so bad they're probably a war crime, with 150 VERY LOUD PEOPLE WHO NEVER LEARNED ABOUT INDOOR VOICES AND REALLY loving LOVE TO TALK ALL DAY and who will constantly try to get your attention about irrelevant poo poo when you've got your headphones on and are trying to get into the zone wasn't enough to do it.

Nope, it was a loopy DBA saying something dumb, and a meeting about a loving 5 pixel increase in image size in an email that almost no one ever looks at that finally made me break.

Plus side, I'm in no rush, and I've never had a problem with interviews. Minus side, uuuuuuugh, new job at some point in the near future.

vonnegutt
Aug 7, 2006
Hobocamp.
There's always that one thing that just drives you over the edge. Before I left my last job, we lost more than 50% of our dev team in one year, lost our long-standing gig working with a semi-competent team, and ended up all separated and siloed on various horrible internal projects that had been languishing for years.

But the straw that broke the camel's back was hearing my manager (who became management due to seniority and attrition, not actual interest or capability in the job) claim that he "didn't know" if I would get a performance review this year.

Somehow, until that point, I was optimistic that this was a transitional period of suck and not the new normal. I started looking that same day.

Iverron
May 13, 2012

At least Entity Framework and all other ORMs including Dapper haven't been labeled as "not performant" by one guy and parroted by the rest. I really need to vet this sort of thing out more in interviews in the future because I don't know that I can deal with this.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

metztli posted:

1) There was a meeting during which 8 people spent an hour deciding on whether or not an image in an email that maybe .5% of a quarter of our userbase ever even opens should be increased in size by, I poo poo you not, 2%. People in this meeting had opinions other than "who gives a gently caress?"
The most brilliant web developer I ever worked with wasn't a great coder, and he wasn't a great designer. But when he was designing for stakeholders who always find something to bikeshed in a meeting, he would turn in designs that purposely had something visibly off by just a tiny bit. People would point it out in the meeting, agree that it should change, and move on to more pressing issues. He did this time after time after time and they kept buying it hook, line, and sinker.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Vulture Culture posted:

The most brilliant web developer I ever worked with wasn't a great coder, and he wasn't a great designer. But when he was designing for stakeholders who always find something to bikeshed in a meeting, he would turn in designs that purposely had something visibly off by just a tiny bit. People would point it out in the meeting, agree that it should change, and move on to more pressing issues. He did this time after time after time and they kept buying it hook, line, and sinker.

He gave them a duck

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012

This is Battle Chess right?

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


For someone who's able to write a few dozen line scripts, what real-world are thoughts on teaching yourself Computer Science through the MIT Challenge?

https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/myprojects/mit-challenge-2/

I don't expect to get a job at Google if I went through this but I'm curious about other opportunities.

metztli
Mar 19, 2006
Which lead to the obvious photoshop, making me suspect that their ad agencies or creative types must be aware of what goes on at SA

Vulture Culture posted:

The most brilliant web developer I ever worked with wasn't a great coder, and he wasn't a great designer. But when he was designing for stakeholders who always find something to bikeshed in a meeting, he would turn in designs that purposely had something visibly off by just a tiny bit. People would point it out in the meeting, agree that it should change, and move on to more pressing issues. He did this time after time after time and they kept buying it hook, line, and sinker.

I wish this were that. It wasn't so much that anyone felt they NEEDED to change something, it's just that someone pulled up that particular email in order to see what language we used about something, someone else noticed that the image looked pled a tiny bit weird on the gigantic, super lovely flatscreen in the room, and asked if we could tweak it. Then someone else got involved saying that if we tweak it what about people who use different devices to see it and well let's just limit any changes to something that couldn't cause a problem and oh we don't really own that email anyway but let's bring a few options to the person who does so they can make a decision and really should it just be adding some padding or resizing it a little and oh god loving kill me.

Iverron posted:

At least Entity Framework and all other ORMs including Dapper haven't been labeled as "not performant" by one guy and parroted by the rest. I really need to vet this sort of thing out more in interviews in the future because I don't know that I can deal with this.

I wish we had only that guy. Instead we had the guy who decided that rolling our own ORM was better than LINQ to SQL because "who knows what it's actually doing" and created this horrific pile of poo poo that uses unparameterized in-line SQL and stored procedures to do a 10th of what you can do with LINQ to SQL in only 5x the time, but at least now we kind of can sort of figure out what is happening to our data during CRUD operations by looking at code instead of the code being hidden!

As of last year, all new data access stuff is required to use EF, mainly because our bespoke shitshow of an ORM often caused things like crashes because someone forgot to version one of the sprocs that abortion uses. 90% of our code base still uses it though.

On the plus side, the people I work directly with are pretty nice and often bring in treats to share, so, uh, I got that going for me.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

[quote="“metztli”" post="“474240930”"]
Working in an open office with acoustics so bad they’re probably a war crime, with 150 VERY LOUD PEOPLE WHO NEVER LEARNED ABOUT INDOOR VOICES AND REALLY loving LOVE TO TALK ALL DAY and who will constantly try to get your attention about irrelevant poo poo when you’ve got your headphones on and are trying to get into the zone wasn’t enough to do it.
[/quote]

Our office was built out from a design by corporate a continent away. It’s the dot-com style ‘half finished construction’ that was so popular in the ‘90s and early ‘00s. Only it’s a building from the early 80s. Do you know what happens when you don’t put a false ceiling to cover HVAC equipment from ‘81? 70db background noise happens. Any time I fly out to Europe to one of the core offices I’m amazed at the silence people get to work in while we have what’s just below hearing damage.

Doom Mathematic
Sep 2, 2008

Keetron posted:

Aside from the fact that ni code is ever bug free, end to end testing is a really bad thing to rush or to use for bug hunting. All bugs should be found during ST, Interface testing and possibly bi-lateral testing.

What's bi-lateral testing?

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

Doom Mathematic posted:

What's bi-lateral testing?

From one system to another with the sole purpose of testing the interface in a two-systems environment.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Tab8715 posted:

For someone who's able to write a few dozen line scripts, what real-world are thoughts on teaching yourself Computer Science through the MIT Challenge?

https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/myprojects/mit-challenge-2/

I don't expect to get a job at Google if I went through this but I'm curious about other opportunities.

I'll skip my rant about Software Engineering Vs Computer Science wrt industry needs and what's taught, since MIT seems to have a pretty good curriculum regardless. If it's interesting to you, it's worth doing. Just make sure you learn how to use source control like Git et al.

You'll definitely find ways to do some things at work more efficiently, and may (may!) be able to transition to a junior developer role if you can impress someone, depending on what your company is like. It's traditionally hard to get your foot in the door without prior experience, and a bachelor's is typically used to create experience for a resume, but you won't get that value because you can't put it on your resume.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

New job is offering me either a macbook or a Dell laptop. All I know is that both are decently powerful machines, good enough for developers. Which should I choose?

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

Carbon dioxide posted:

New job is offering me either a macbook or a Dell laptop. All I know is that both are decently powerful machines, good enough for developers. Which should I choose?

If you're a programmer, and assuming you'll be SSHing into your dev environment or will have VMware, it doesn't matter. Go with what you're comfortable with.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Carbon dioxide posted:

New job is offering me either a macbook or a Dell laptop. All I know is that both are decently powerful machines, good enough for developers. Which should I choose?

If they're equivalently priced models, it probably doesn't matter. I'd personally pick the macbook because I want to fit in when writing code in the middle of a coffee shop.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



The Fool posted:

If they're equivalently priced models, it probably doesn't matter. I'd personally pick the macbook because I want to fit in when writing code in the middle of a coffee shop.

Yea

Mac has unix under the hood and yadada. If I had the option, and the specs were mostly the same I'd prob go macbook now adays. Dell just seems gross to me. Lenovo or bust for windows work machines bb.

IAmKale
Jun 7, 2007

やらないか

Fun Shoe

lifg posted:

If you're a programmer, and assuming you'll be SSHing into your dev environment or will have VMware, it doesn't matter. Go with what you're comfortable with.
If you're a frontend developer, and assuming you'll be doing your development/testing locally, I think despite being a fan of Windows and WSL I'd have to recommend the Macbook.

Last week I tried building our rather large Angular project with node running on both WSL and Powershell and it took almost 20 minutes to complete, compared to the 2 minutes or so it takes on the Macbook work provided me. Windows is just too second-rate with a lot of the popular Javascript tools, and combined with the file read/write performance hit WSL suffers when working with files on the native filesystem, I believe the Macbook is going to be a much smoother development experience for you across the board.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Also, whatever dev you're doing just run it in a VM runing ubuntu anyway.

I map my drive to windows to do text editing, but all the server/processing is in my VM.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

IAmKale posted:

If you're a frontend developer, and assuming you'll be doing your development/testing locally, I think despite being a fan of Windows and WSL I'd have to recommend the Macbook.

Last week I tried building our rather large Angular project with node running on both WSL and Powershell and it took almost 20 minutes to complete, compared to the 2 minutes or so it takes on the Macbook work provided me. Windows is just too second-rate with a lot of the popular Javascript tools, and combined with the file read/write performance hit WSL suffers when working with files on the native filesystem, I believe the Macbook is going to be a much smoother development experience for you across the board.

Are you sure this wasn't some slow HD/WSL issue? I have some fairly large Angular/TypeScript apps, and the longest they take to build is <10s, and this is on native Windows (not WSL). Windows does not have any major problems with JavaScript tooling (that I know of).

IAmKale
Jun 7, 2007

やらないか

Fun Shoe

Skandranon posted:

Are you sure this wasn't some slow HD/WSL issue? I have some fairly large Angular/TypeScript apps, and the longest they take to build is <10s, and this is on native Windows (not WSL). Windows does not have any major problems with JavaScript tooling (that I know of).
My Windows machine is and i5 with all-SSD drives, so I don't think it's related to the actual build of the PC. Rather, I think the slow build time is due to none of us being experts with Webpack so we've just continued to trudge forward with a sub-optimal boilerplate config that's served us "alright" since we're all developing on Macs. The customer's complained of long build times for several months now (a Java-heavy financial institution, all of their devs are on Windows) but of course that's their problem to figure out :v:

We've basically been on a death march since October and have had zero time to hit the brakes and refactor anything about this project :suicide:

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Carbon dioxide posted:

New job is offering me either a macbook or a Dell laptop. All I know is that both are decently powerful machines, good enough for developers. Which should I choose?

Depends on what you're developing too, and the tools available for each.

Personally I'd pick the Mac.

Keetron
Sep 26, 2008

Check out my enormous testicles in my TFLC log!

If you will be working on C#/.NET go with the Windows machine as that is native for the environment the stuff you build will be running on.
For all the rest get a mac, the build quality of the macbook and native unix is just what you need. I drank the coolaid, you should too.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Keetron posted:

If you will be working on C#/.NET go with the Windows machine just install windows on the mac as that is native for the environment the stuff you build will be running on.
For all the rest get a mac, the build quality of the macbook and native unix is just what you need. I drank the coolaid, you should too.

Gildiss
Aug 24, 2010

Grimey Drawer
Just put Linux on the Dell.

Pixelboy
Sep 13, 2005

Now, I know what you're thinking...
I love my XPS13. Running Win10. It's a sweet, sweet ride.

Handles some pretty beefy VS2017 stuff, Matlab... and whenever I have something I'm doing the new Ubuntu/Linux subsystem can't handle, I just ssh to our monster cluster.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Is the Dell one the "developer edition" model that comes with Linux?

You'll probably be better off with the Macbook regardless.

metztli
Mar 19, 2006
Which lead to the obvious photoshop, making me suspect that their ad agencies or creative types must be aware of what goes on at SA
Do you prefer OSX over Windows? If so, go with MBP.

Are you working with .Net? If so, whatever you get, install Windows on it.

Will you be doing much in the way of travel/outside the home or office or just leaving the machine on your desk at home/office? If traveling, go with MBP; the build quality, durability and MagSafe are essential, IMO.

Otherwise, go with whichever one looks prettier to you.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

KoRMaK posted:

Yea

Mac has unix under the hood and yadada. If I had the option, and the specs were mostly the same I'd prob go macbook now adays. Dell just seems gross to me. Lenovo or bust for windows work machines bb.

Is Lenovo still the best windows laptop? I heard someone say it has fallen in quality.

Greatbacon
Apr 9, 2012

by Pragmatica
Also, this might be a placebo effect, but in my experience most mac book pros are easier/lighter to carry than whatever corporate windows machine you might end up with.

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

lifg posted:

Is Lenovo still the best windows laptop? I heard someone say it has fallen in quality.


Surface pro or surface laptop

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


ratbert90 posted:

Surface pro or surface laptop

I don't have any experience with the Surface Book or the new Surface Pro, but I hate my Surface Pro 3's keyboard.

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.

Tab8715 posted:

For someone who's able to write a few dozen line scripts, what real-world are thoughts on teaching yourself Computer Science through the MIT Challenge?

https://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/myprojects/mit-challenge-2/

I don't expect to get a job at Google if I went through this but I'm curious about other opportunities.

It can't hurt if you're interested in the subjects taught, have the IQ to learn them, and the self-discipline to do it on your own over the course of a year.

If you're doing it with the hope of getting a job based on it, I imagine you'll have to deal with a lot of "prove it" or "yeah buddy, sure you did" responses when you say you taught yourself the MIT curriculum. (They'll say it more politely than that, of course.)

geeves
Sep 16, 2004

Carbon dioxide posted:

New job is offering me either a macbook or a Dell laptop. All I know is that both are decently powerful machines, good enough for developers. Which should I choose?

If it'a Dell that's a Linux-based machine, I'd be interested. Otherwise, considering usability, Apple's trackpad is still light-years beyond anything else I've used. (on that note, if there is a laptop manufacturer that has a competing trackpad, I'd love to hear recommendations - I really do want a linux laptop)

What I did when I was asked what I wanted: I asked for an got the 27" iMac and left my work at the office (iMac was same ballpark price as 15" MBP). I do use my personal macbook when I need to work from home once or twice a month and my company gives me a an extra license for virus protection to stay in compliance in return to stay in their guidelines.

I have a Windows 10 desktop as well and it's awesome, so I can't knock windows, but, to me, it feels unnatural doing mostly Java, Python, etc.

the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture





i have an xps15 personally and a 13" mbp for work and the dell is lighter with more ram and a bigger screen. i'd pick the xps if offered

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009
I had the same choice to make once and I went with the MacBook. Never used a Mac before, heard so many great things about it, I was all excited. After 6 months I gave it back. Me and macOS do not get along at all. I would have wanted to install Linux on that machine but IT didn't let me. Hardware wise great machine (except the drat keyboard). Software wise that thing is/was a WTF every 5 minutes.

But hey, at least now I know to never buy one with my money.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
I have x250, the ultimate road warrior notebook (sorry, ultrabook) with larger battery and lte modem built-in. :colbert:

I was actually thinking about mbp, but after looking into the connector and lte modem situation, it seemed like I would have to carry ton of dongles everywhere, kinda defeating the point :shrug:


Also WSL is loving great.

IAmKale
Jun 7, 2007

やらないか

Fun Shoe
DO

NOT

ATTACH

SCREENSHOTS

AS

WORD DOCUMENTS

This customer's loving QA department is driving me up the loving wall, I can't help but picture an entire call center full of grandmas who have no grasp of how computers work. Now, instead of being able to preview attachments nicely from within our Jira, I have to slowly accumulate a piles of .doc files with nebulous filenames that only map to their internal ticketing system's ticket numbering pattern. There's no point in fighting the client over this because we're close to the end (at least until the release deadline get moved forward again)

Can this project be over yet? :suicide:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Jesus loving christ, yes. Powerpoint is better, but only marginally.

Also, holy gently caress when you send me a log snippet, give it a reasonable goddamn extension :mad:

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GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?

IAmKale posted:

DO

NOT

ATTACH

SCREENSHOTS

AS

WORD DOCUMENTS

This customer's loving QA department is driving me up the loving wall, I can't help but picture an entire call center full of grandmas who have no grasp of how computers work. Now, instead of being able to preview attachments nicely from within our Jira, I have to slowly accumulate a piles of .doc files with nebulous filenames that only map to their internal ticketing system's ticket numbering pattern. There's no point in fighting the client over this because we're close to the end (at least until the release deadline get moved forward again)

Can this project be over yet? :suicide:

As long as windows default screenshot behavior is to copy it to the clipboard, that's going to be what happens. These people don't even realize they have mspaint on their computer to paste into instead of word. It's all they know. It's annoying as poo poo, but I blame Microsoft for that. It should dump the screen to a file on the desktop somewhere, not the clipboard.

(Yes I know about win+print screen, but they don't)

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