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I don't see anything wrong with understanding why people join alt right groups and even empathizing with them, that's basic humanity. What led them to this awful place started in childhood, and is the product of a long chain of events and poor choices. That said, I don't sympathize with them or excuse their behavior because of this, but I do understand where it comes from. The key to countering them is to find a path for them out of where they are now, since I would bet that for a lot of them, the alt right is the first social group that truly accepted them and most of them would rather go further down the racist rabbit hole than go back to being an alienated, friendless loser. Also, thanks Brutalist McDonalds for alienated instead of disenfranchised, I used that because I couldn't think of anything else and alienated is what I was trying to convey. I think the ones who manage to gain some social skills with time will stumble into regular Republicanism and regret spending time on the alt right, but I fear the rest will go full Nazi/white supremacist. I don't know how to give them a third path, but it's necessary to prevent them from becoming something worse.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:10
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Azathoth posted:I don't see anything wrong with understanding why people join alt right groups and even empathizing with them, that's basic humanity. What led them to this awful place started in childhood, and is the product of a long chain of events and poor choices. That said, I don't sympathize with them or excuse their behavior because of this, but I do understand where it comes from. Another one of the premises' of Nagel's "Kill All Normies" is that most of the impetus for the alt-right came from what she calls "tumblr-liberalism" and that the spread of a particular form of racial and gender identity politics online alienated many young white men and turned them into recruits for an online reactionary movement. Nagel argues that the call-out culture cultivated on left-wing parts of the twitter verse (she approvingly cites Mark Fisher's Vampire Castle essay) both drove away potential recruits and also caused the left to lose its capacity to actually win arguments on their merits. For her, the rise of the alt-right is largely viewed as a failure of the left to provide the alternative pathway you're alluding to.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:22
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Helsing posted:Another one of the premises' of Nagel's "Kill All Normies" is that most of the impetus for the alt-right came from what she calls "tumblr-liberalism" and that the spread of a particular form of racial and gender identity politics online alienated many young white men and turned them into recruits for an online reactionary movement. Nagel argues that the call-out culture cultivated on left-wing parts of the twitter verse (she approvingly cites Mark Fisher's Vampire Castle essay) both drove away potential recruits and also caused the left to lose its capacity to actually win arguments on their merits. For her, the rise of the alt-right is largely viewed as a failure of the left to provide the alternative pathway you're alluding to. It's been pretty obvious for a while now that tumblr-liberals and the alt-right feed on each other, since they pretty much are each others' strawmen. Alienated young men find themselves under accusations of 'privilege' which seem utterly incongruous with their life experiences, and perhaps decide that if they're going to be accused of all manner of evils they might as well try to reap the benefits of them. No one seems to have any answers as to what they should be doing instead.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:43
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Helsing posted:Another one of the premises' of Nagel's "Kill All Normies" is that most of the impetus for the alt-right came from what she calls "tumblr-liberalism" and that the spread of a particular form of racial and gender identity politics online alienated many young white men and turned them into recruits for an online reactionary movement. Nagel argues that the call-out culture cultivated on left-wing parts of the twitter verse (she approvingly cites Mark Fisher's Vampire Castle essay) both drove away potential recruits and also caused the left to lose its capacity to actually win arguments on their merits. For her, the rise of the alt-right is largely viewed as a failure of the left to provide the alternative pathway you're alluding to. if only SephirotTheCuckSlayer learned about Gramsci instead of gender Nagle views alt-right as some kind of lumpenproletariat, but their class conciousness is in the right place - they know that reinforcing the status quo or turning it back a few decades is going to benefit them. I don't think that it is a matter of such clear equation and I sure don't believe that proper praxis would have magically made stunted dorks immune to the red pill (alt-righters don't like proper left more than idpol left). And, anyway, despite media attention, alt-right and their recruit pool is not a force that demands more attention than, you know, actual working class - unless you search for someone to fill your debate team.
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Jul 13, 2017 12:46
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:*shudders involuntarily*  its very very VERY easy to get caught up an a Reactionary ideologies. Said it once and ill say it again
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Jul 13, 2017 12:51
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Azathoth posted:I don't know how to give them a third path, but it's necessary to prevent them from becoming something worse. Inescapable Duck posted:No one seems to have any answers as to what they should be doing instead. Just as big a problem, imo, is how you convince people on the left to loving try to communicate with these dudes or even care. The alt-right's casual inhumanity has understandably and justifiably hardened most socialist, anarchist, etc types' attitude toward them and willingness to seek terms, because they basically thrive on being difficult, unlikable antagonists. I'm queer and I'm sick to loving death of reading pseudo-scientific theories from fuckwits about how the way I dress or what I do with my dick is the problem with western civilization, the Real Hitlers, the reason ISIS is going to destroy us, and so on. I understand, rationally, how they got to where they are, but I don't loving care how they feel anymore. The US left has enough work to do without putting emotional labor into making friends with and winning the minds of these dudes. Fighting back both directly and by producing compelling propaganda of our own to target the up-and-coming sad gamers of the world bears more fruit. Love, time, everything is finite. Why waste it on lovely people who hate you?
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Jul 13, 2017 13:12
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wizard on a water slide posted:I'm queer and I'm sick to loving death of reading pseudo-scientific theories from fuckwits about how the way I dress or what I do with my dick is the problem with western civilization, the Real Hitlers, the reason ISIS is going to destroy us, and so on. least you're not a black person! years and wasted YEARS doing boring STEM poo poo just to prove i was "one of the good/smart ones" you guys really need to look into the phenomenon of racial minorities in Conservative groups Like, right now BornAPoorBlkChild has issued a correction as of 13:57 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 13:55
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yeah but then i would assume youd be the one black friend that a lot of people use like a totem to ward off accusations of racism. I hope you call that poo poo out friendo
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Jul 13, 2017 13:57
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but STEM isnt boring mr wrongo.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:58
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wizard on a water slide posted:Just as big a problem, imo, is how you convince people on the left to loving try to communicate with these dudes or even care. The alt-right's casual inhumanity has understandably and justifiably hardened most socialist, anarchist, etc types' attitude toward them and willingness to seek terms, because they basically thrive on being difficult, unlikable antagonists. I'm queer and I'm sick to loving death of reading pseudo-scientific theories from fuckwits about how the way I dress or what I do with my dick is the problem with western civilization, the Real Hitlers, the reason ISIS is going to destroy us, and so on. I understand, rationally, how they got to where they are, but I don't loving care how they feel anymore. There are worse things than death. Not to sound all ~dramatic~ with that, but it's worth remembering. I've been lucky to meet guys who lived through the worst years of the AIDS crisis and those guys are hard as nails. They're our equivalent of Holocaust survivors, and they don't get shook easily. Or at least don't feed the trolls. Though the immediate counterpoint to this is that I'm naive, at best, or privilege-blind. I've been told that. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 14:27 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 14:06
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:As a personal practice I agree with this. I was talking about the alt-right with a friend over coffee, who is very hard authoritarian-left, and he was in "kill 'em all" mode. I'm not in kill 'em all mode, but because I'm a gay man he thought I should be because they'll come kill me!!! He was very bothered by that. Well, people who want to kill me isn't new. There are lots of people who think killing all the gays and queers would be great fun. You might relate to where I'm coming from. At a certain point you stop caring or being worried because (a) you not caring makes their job harder (b) it's no way to go about your day (c) being fearful, or worse -- going back into the closet -- is a fate worse than death, because queer people will commit suicide to escape it. As another gay dude I'm with you. Kill them all is not going to solve any problems and will only make us lose our souls. Most of these people (again, the rank and file, not the die hards) don't really hate gay people (though they may hate trans people for real), or even black people, they're just so happy to belong to some group they're willing to parrot the lines fed to them by the die hards. I'm sure there's some cultural resentment too because gays are seen by these folks as invariably promiscuous and if these guys havent even hosed, the thought of us queers getting to gently caress every night on demand can stir some anger (doesn't matter that its not really true). I really think these outcasts just want a social group and friends. Until recently I used to be a die hard LGBT exclusionist, meaning I didn't want any of the tumblrites invading LGBT spaces. The asexuals, sapiosexuals, aromantics, demiboys etc.. who all claimed queerness and queer identity seemed like parasites and moochers to me, bandwagoning on our movement once it was relatively safe to do so in order to find a place to fit in because they too were outcasts and losers from general society. I've reversed pretty drastically. They're all welcome now as far as I'm concerned, even though I still deep down believe they're 90% cishets who just see us as a convenient social group. There's power in that, in that belonging, and if they can get that from us then they won't run off to the alt-right to get it if we turn them away. I still draw the line at straight fetishists (like that HuffPo article that tried to claim that hetero adult babies are actually queer), but the tumblr teenies can come right in and feel the warmth and acceptance of community they crave.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:25
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A Pale Horse posted:As another gay dude I'm with you. Kill them all is not going to solve any problems and will only make us lose our souls. Most of these people (again, the rank and file, not the die hards) don't really hate gay people (though they may hate trans people for real), or even black people, they're just so happy to belong to some group they're willing to parrot the lines fed to them by the die hards. I'm sure there's some cultural resentment too because gays are seen by these folks as invariably promiscuous and if these guys havent even hosed, the thought of us queers getting to gently caress every night on demand can stir some anger (doesn't matter that its not really true). I really think these outcasts just want a social group and friends. Until recently I used to be a die hard LGBT exclusionist, meaning I didn't want any of the tumblrites invading LGBT spaces. The asexuals, sapiosexuals, aromantics, demiboys etc.. who all claimed queerness and queer identity seemed like parasites and moochers to me, bandwagoning on our movement once it was relatively safe to do so in order to find a place to fit in because they too were outcasts and losers from general society. I've reversed pretty drastically. They're all welcome now as far as I'm concerned, even though I still deep down believe they're 90% cishets who just see us as a convenient social group. There's power in that, in that belonging, and if they can get that from us then they won't run off to the alt-right to get it if we turn them away. I still draw the line at straight fetishists (like that HuffPo article that tried to claim that hetero adult babies are actually queer), but the tumblr teenies can come right in and feel the warmth and acceptance of community they crave. Kinda sounds like the big problem at the heart of this is total alienation of a significant chunk of the young generation. People become willing to take on any identity just so they have people they can relate to and talk to, and everything older generations take for granted is utterly exclusionary, completely alien, or just otherwise hostile to them.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:32
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wizard on a water slide posted:Just as big a problem, imo, is how you convince people on the left to loving try to communicate with these dudes or even care. The alt-right's casual inhumanity has understandably and justifiably hardened most socialist, anarchist, etc types' attitude toward them and willingness to seek terms, because they basically thrive on being difficult, unlikable antagonists. I'm queer and I'm sick to loving death of reading pseudo-scientific theories from fuckwits about how the way I dress or what I do with my dick is the problem with western civilization, the Real Hitlers, the reason ISIS is going to destroy us, and so on. I understand, rationally, how they got to where they are, but I don't loving care how they feel anymore. I think Nagel's argument would be that tumblr-liberalism cultivated habits of thought on the left that make it tactically inflexible and unconvincing to anyone who isn't already an ally. In the conclusion to "Kill All Normies" she comes down quite hard on what she views as the "toxic" culture of a lot of online left-liberal discourse.   Nagel draws a comparison between online subcultures (of both the left and the right) and the formation of music subcultures and cites Sarah Thornton's concept of "subcultural capital", i.e. the idea (borrowing from Bordiue's idea of cultural capital) that subcultures use esoteric knowledge to police who really 'belongs' to the group. In the case of progressive internet sites and social media in the early 2010s she views the cultivation of a certain kind of leftist virtue (i.e. wokeness) as being a crucial resources for bloggers and social media personalities. Leftist call-out culture in the early 2010s, with its focus on identifying how various left-wing allies or figures had this or that "problematic" view, was a sort of improvised attempt to create a scarcity of virtue because this had become a precious resources for online personalities. For Nagel this entire culture both pushed away potential recruits and also robbed the left of its ability to develop a compelling arguments (she also complains that left-liberal sites like Buzzfeed and Upworthy were, in her view, using cultural liberalism to attack or diminish any kind of economic leftism). At times Nagel's book comes off like a big effort post right out of the Suck Zone. If you accept that interpretation then the issue here isn't really about being nicer to alt-righters. It's more a question of whether the left's own habits of thought and internal culture are holding it back or limiting its ability to develop good tactics. It's an interesting but far from perfect book and part of me wonders whether it would be worth doing a bigger effort post about it or even making a new thread to discuss it. If anyone would actually be interested in that let me know.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:33
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i dunno friends, if belonging means so much that you become a dick to any differing idealism i think i'll just hang out with all sorts of cool people and not join a club.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:36
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wizard on a water slide posted:Just as big a problem, imo, is how you convince people on the left to loving try to communicate with these dudes or even care. The alt-right's casual inhumanity has understandably and justifiably hardened most socialist, anarchist, etc types' attitude toward them and willingness to seek terms, because they basically thrive on being difficult, unlikable antagonists. I'm queer and I'm sick to loving death of reading pseudo-scientific theories from fuckwits about how the way I dress or what I do with my dick is the problem with western civilization, the Real Hitlers, the reason ISIS is going to destroy us, and so on. I understand, rationally, how they got to where they are, but I don't loving care how they feel anymore. I think that the Left needs to come to the same realization about the alt-right that they essentially did with the Westboro Baptist Church, which is to learn that shouting back at them gives them what they want, and instead ignore them when possible and calmly mitigate damage when not possible (such as their funeral protests). "Don't fight where your enemy wants to fight" is a pretty basic (and ancient) concept, but there's a certain kind of liberal that absolutely cannot resist the provocation. And I get that it feels pretty drat good to have the moral high ground and to channel righteous anger, but it really does no good. It's far more effective to do counter-programming elsewhere if people absolutely need an outlet for their anger.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:41
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can we occasionally continue punching richard spencer though?
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Jul 13, 2017 14:41
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Azathoth posted:I think that the Left needs to come to the same realization about the alt-right that they essentially did with the Westboro Baptist Church, which is to learn that shouting back at them gives them what they want, and instead ignore them when possible and calmly mitigate damage when not possible (such as their funeral protests). What's good for a "movement" or "cause" or group isn't necessarily going to benefit individuals who wish to profit from the movement. Engaging in pointless grudge matches or struggles with the enemy can help raise your profile and redirect some money into your patreon account even if it's not particularly conducive to winning any larger political struggle. Both the left and the right has its fair share of grifters who understand the usefulness of selective outrage.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:53
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Azathoth posted:I think that the Left needs to come to the same realization about the alt-right that they essentially did with the Westboro Baptist Church, which is to learn that shouting back at them gives them what they want, and instead ignore them when possible and calmly mitigate damage when not possible (such as their funeral protests). From all I remember, the absolute best response to the WBC was to troll them back. When they protested Comic-Con, or a convention along those lines, they were utterly baffled when cosplayers counter-protested with signs parodying their slogans with nerd in-jokes, and quickly left because it wasn't the attention they wanted. Most of the entire deal with the alt-right is embracing the absurd memes and in-jokes, being ridiculous and dangerous to make the people taking them seriously look ridiculous. Either ignore them or find a way to mock them, because otherwise, negative attention from the fearful and hysterical is exactly what they want and desperately hope for. Nobody ever took them seriously before they started waving nazi flags. Laugh at them and they'll go home and find something else to do.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:53
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Inescapable Duck posted:Kinda sounds like the big problem at the heart of this is total alienation of a significant chunk of the young generation. People become willing to take on any identity just so they have people they can relate to and talk to, and everything older generations take for granted is utterly exclusionary, completely alien, or just otherwise hostile to them. Yeah, this is pretty much the heart of it. In a previous generation, they likely would have built their identity around church membership and slowly turned into a garden variety right-wing evangelical bible thumper or gone the plain, old hunting and fishing redneck/outdoorsman route, but their parents were only nominally religious (and they're not at all) and their parents didn't teach them hunting and fishing growing up, so they lack that identity to fall back on too, so they fall in deep with the first group that promises them acceptance.
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Jul 13, 2017 14:54
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Helsing posted:If anyone would actually be interested in that let me know. Helsing posted:Nagel's more of a journalist than a scholar and she seems to take the alt-right's claim about "hypergamy" at face value. In my own experience there is hardly a "steep sexual hierarchy" for men on the contemporary dating / hookup scene. Perhaps my perceptions are coloured by living in big cities and mostly hanging around with a university / professional crowd but it seems like most folks of both sexes can get laid easily enough (securing a long term relationship with a committed partner seems somewhat less frequent but is hardly uncommon). There does seem to be a slice of the population who have almost no sexual or romantic partners but it seems like the real barrier for them is a mixture of social isolation, anxiety, overly high standards of unrealistic expectations, and self-segregation (i.e. spending all day on the internet or gaming). The idea that large numbers of men are denied sexual opportunities because a sexual elite is taking all the women doesn't even come close to matching up with my own experiences and I wish she'd explain what evidence she sees for this. source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19627993 which gives this table: code:
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Jul 13, 2017 14:56
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But it's also worth noting that the difference there is actually decreasing over time, contra the alt-right perception that this is somehow a problem exacerbated by feminism, which makes me think the issue is a marriageability crisis
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Jul 13, 2017 15:02
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rudatron posted:But it's also worth noting that the difference there is actually decreasing over time, contra the alt-right perception that this is somehow a problem exacerbated by feminism, which makes me think the issue is a marriageability crisis Its also an expectation crisis. A lot of these folks are young and immature and their expectations for what a relationship should be like and with whom it should be are completely out of whack with reality. They all want a perfect 10 who is (to borrow Chapo parlance) mommy you can gently caress. IE someone who waits on them hand and foot, is deferent towards them and fucks them whenever they want. Whether its the internet, movies, vidya games or the fracturing of late capitalist society that gave them this idea, it hasn't been cured by social interaction with the opposite sex because they've had limited to no interaction with said sex and have never grown out of their childish expectations.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:13
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But is that actually a thing? I tend to shy away from these kind of 'character' arguments when you're examining society, because they don't have much explanatory power, and they tend to lead into the very same 'culturalist' arguments you see reactionaries use. If your argument is that the internet has made young people shallow or wwhatever, then that's certainly an argument, but is in effect no different from using 'millenials are lazy' in order to explain unemployment. Which sort of leads into what I think the real cause is: this is a knock-on effect from youth unemployment/under-employment. Stable relationships need a stable income.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:17
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rudatron posted:But is that actually a thing? I tend to shy away from these kind of 'character' arguments when you're examining society, because they don't have much explanatory power, and they tend to lead into the very same 'culturalist' arguments you see reactionaries use. If your argument is that the internet has made young people shallow or wwhatever, then that's certainly an argument, but is in effect no different from using 'millenials are lazy' in order to explain unemployment. And a reasonable amount of free time. Aren't we already seeing this in Japan? Birthrate plummeting because everyone is either an unemployed NEET or an overworked salaryman, neither of whom can afford to spend any time getting to know the opposite sex. And everyone in charge has zero interest in changing any of that.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:24
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rudatron posted:But is that actually a thing? I tend to shy away from these kind of 'character' arguments when you're examining society, because they don't have much explanatory power, and they tend to lead into the very same 'culturalist' arguments you see reactionaries use. If your argument is that the internet has made young people shallow or wwhatever, then that's certainly an argument, but is in effect no different from using 'millenials are lazy' in order to explain unemployment. My claim isn't that its made them shallow, its that its perpetuated the immaturity of middle adolescence into these people's 20s and 30s. We all have hosed up, idealized visions of what our relationships should and will be like when we begin to date people but they're usually reshaped and realigned with reality by our experiences with the people we've already dated. But when you don't date into your 20s or 30s (for whatever reason), those adolescent fantasies become more rigid templates for what you expect from relationships. Its not a cultural argument so much as it is a psychological one. They're psychosexually stunted. Not all of them of course, we're talking mostly about the incels here.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:28
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But your argument is circular - you're saying they're psycho-sexually stunted because they don't date, but also that they can't date because they're stunted. That works maybe as an argument as to why a vicious cycle can establish itself, but not why such a thing would establish itself in the first place. Furthermore, if this feedback loop were as strong as you're suggesting, then it would be the dominant case (using the mathematical definition here), because any random perturbation would begin that feedback loop (think of like an eigenvalue of a matrix) - you'd then have to explain why it isn't the case for everyone, or nearly everyone. There has to another factor at play here, the explanation you're giving doesn't work well enough.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:37
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Azathoth posted:I think that the Left needs to come to the same realization about the alt-right that they essentially did with the Westboro Baptist Church, which is to learn that shouting back at them gives them what they want, and instead ignore them when possible and calmly mitigate damage when not possible (such as their funeral protests). I've found that just relentlessly mocking them also works and is way more cathartic. Don't even engage with their politics, just shout that their dad is a cuck until they stop talking They desperately want to be taken seriously and denying that to them by using their own language is a great way to demoralize them
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Jul 13, 2017 15:38
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poor real life examples of relationships combines with sheltered self congratulating encouragement of bad behavior and unrealistic expectations.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:40
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The alt right doesn't have to be rehabilitated or reasoned with, they just have to be put back in their basements
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Jul 13, 2017 15:43
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Inescapable Duck posted:From all I remember, the absolute best response to the WBC was to troll them back. When they protested Comic-Con, or a convention along those lines, they were utterly baffled when cosplayers counter-protested with signs parodying their slogans with nerd in-jokes, and quickly left because it wasn't the attention they wanted. I think a better way to do it is not to call their sexist/racist bullshit sexist or racist, but to call it dumb or say the person who posted it must be a sad loser. Don't even make an argument, they only argue in bad faith. They know the things they're saying are bigoted and that's the reaction they want: to 'trigger' the libs. Target their insecurities and make them feel shame. Mockery, not something that can be seen as taking offense. EDIT: Business Gorilla said pretty much the same thing. Ague Proof has issued a correction as of 15:47 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 15:45
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Business Gorillas posted:Don't even engage with their politics, just shout that their dad is a cuck until they stop talking Yes. This is the correct path for the left. "Hillary 2020, it's really her turn this time you cucks."
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Jul 13, 2017 15:48
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Well reasoning doesn't work in general for political struggles, if it did such conflicts wouldn't exist in the first place. You're never really trying to reason with your opponents until they stop, that's stupid. What you are trying to do is capture the center, cut them off from their base of support, isolate them. So, what the correct response to the expressed alt-right isn't really the issue, so much as how you're framing the conflict, intentionally and unintentionally, to the vast majority of people, who are not and never will be politically inclined. That's going to mean appealing to whatever is 'common sense' as much as possible, and leaving the heavy theory at home. That would include mockery, because laughter is universal, but that's just one aspect of it. Or tl;dr just be the normie.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:53
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spacetoaster posted:Yes. This is the correct path for the left. ew
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Jul 13, 2017 15:53
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spacetoaster posted:Yes. This is the correct path for the left. nobody on the left likes hillary. it's people at the center that like her.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:55
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spacetoaster posted:Yes. This is the correct path for the left. The left needs to openly broadcast their platform and provide a viable alternative to neoliberal economics and constant interventionism Funny that you bring up Clinton considering she spent her whole campaign jousting at moderate republicans (which no longer exist) Considering beating up the alt right whenever they show up in public has bipartisan support, why should we take them seriously? The whole "all discourse is valid" argument allowed nazism to take root in our society in the first place.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:02
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I've almost finished reading Nagle's book and I'm really quite disappointed. For all the problems with this school of Tumblr leftism, or whatever you want to call it, it's not chiefly to blame for the rise of the alt-right. It has far more to do with the desire for group acceptance, toxic masculinity, and the denial of status to those who were never conditioned to expect it than anything else. I hope it inspires other, better books about the subject though. I was really excited to read a serious look at political and social trends in internet subcultures, because I am extremely normal. Also, Nagle making GBS threads on non-binary people isn't cool. I'm also fed up with this idea that budding Nazis need to be talked down and lovingly deprogrammed, but people on Tumblr are irredeemable and worthy only of mockery. I've said before that in a better world we'd have enough trained mental health professionals to lead them out of their destructive modes of thinking, but we live in this one, and there are literally millions of people I can reach out to right now who haven't explicitly called for me to be thrown from a helicopter.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:02
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Tumblr absolutely is to blame because the insane .1% of people who think they're fox spirits is a perfect entry point into their version of reactionism It isnt that far of a jump to go from "this person who thinks they're a helicopter is hosed up" to "some people think there's more than two genders" to "some guys want to be girls and that shouldn't be allowed in society"
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Jul 13, 2017 16:09
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The general response should be the same for both tumblr and the alt right. 95% of them should just be allowed to live their lives but the other 5% die hards should get help (therapy for the former, buried alive for the latter)
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Jul 13, 2017 16:11
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Business Gorillas posted:Tumblr absolutely is to blame because the insane .1% of people who think they're fox spirits is a perfect entry point into their version of reactionism No, the entry point is getting picked on in school or rejected romantically or having a black manager at a lovely job. Tumblr is an excuse. And seriously, that false equivalence is bullshit and dangerous.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:13
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apokaladle posted:No, the entry point is getting picked on in school or rejected romantically or having a black manager at a lovely job. Tumblr is an excuse. That social ostracization leads them to going online and has them looking for a more marginalized group to project their angst on, which takes them straight to the Outrage Farms (which wouldn't exist without a constant stream of tumblr content to mock)
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Jul 13, 2017 16:18
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