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DarkAvenger211 posted:I'm going to start DMing Storm King's Thunder with my group. I haven't DM'd for 5e yet so I was wondering what most people do for Ability Point allocation. I don't really like the idea of rolling unless all my players really wanted it. What do people think of the default point buy system? Standard Array or Point Buy, if anyone suggests rolling for stats kick them out of your group.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:02
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Point buy is fine. I myself gravitate to the standard array because I like to control the spread better.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:02
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Hey guys I have a great idea where I have every character declare their actions and put together a dice pool at the start of every round for the otherwise-easy process of determining who goes first. I was hoping I could work in ways to completely hose people who fight in melee and making sure archers are even better than they already are.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:06
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* the standard array is fine, and it is faster to use * point-buy can be leveraged for a "better" stat spread than the array depending on the build, but points-wise is equivalent to the array * rolling sucks for a campaign
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Jul 13, 2017 15:07
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Is the 15 point max limit good for most people? It's only a +2 bonus unless you pick a race that pumps it up a bit more. Which may be totally fine but I don't want players to feel pidgin holed into picking a race because it gives their class a bigger bonus.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:08
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Also, the guy who wants to do rolled stats will always be the one who has to make his character away from the group if you're having a group character building session, and will always roll at least three 18's; for dex, con, and his class's other relevant stat.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:10
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DarkAvenger211 posted:I'm going to start DMing Storm King's Thunder with my group. I haven't DM'd for 5e yet so I was wondering what most people do for Ability Point allocation. I don't really like the idea of rolling unless all my players really wanted it. What do people think of the default point buy system? Rolling for HP on level up also bad. DarkAvenger211 posted:Is the 15 point max limit good for most people? It's only a +2 bonus unless you pick a race that pumps it up a bit more. Which may be totally fine but I don't want players to feel pidgin holed into picking a race because it gives their class a bigger bonus. Splicer fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 15:11
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Is the 15 point max limit good for most people? It's only a +2 bonus unless you pick a race that pumps it up a bit more. Which may be totally fine but I don't want players to feel pidgin holed into picking a race because it gives their class a bigger bonus. The solution here is to let people reallocate the +2 bonus to a different stat if they really want to. Maybe these elves are smarty-pants elves, or maybe these dwarves are ... lithe dwarves?
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Jul 13, 2017 15:12
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Is the 15 point max limit good for most people? It's only a +2 bonus unless you pick a race that pumps it up a bit more. Which may be totally fine but I don't want players to feel pidgin holed into picking a race because it gives their class a bigger bonus. Starting with 16-17 (functionally identical) in your main combat stat is very important. 5e's bounded accuracy means that bonuses are hard to come by and even a +1 to DCs and hit/damage is fairly significant. But 18+ is even better so you do nothing if you increase the array values or PB limits. Outside of some edge cases, picking a race that gives at least a +1 to your main stat is the most mechanically sound choice; the only alternative to this would be doing away with race-specific stats if it's something that bothers you.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:20
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15 is high enough because in the land of bounded accuracy everything is fine and cool. If someone wants to choose one race or another to get +points in a thing, that's good and cool I suppose but it's really not necessary. The difference between 15 and 16 in a stat is +1, which doesn't make a tremendous difference at any level. The temptation is there because it gets you to 20 sooner, but for character choices I usually offsuit and balance anyhow - I throw the +2 on the 14 for 16, not on the 15 for 17. Other things to consider that people might appreciate and which might give people a bit more freedom to choose their race based on what they want to play vs being minmaxy is to give everyone a free skill feat at the start. Not "everyone gets a free feat" (although that's also fine and cool), but "everyone can choose one of the UA skill feats" that gives +1 to a stat and a skill proficiency. This also breaks nothing and gives everyone the customization option to bump that 15 to a 16. Edit: +1s are harder to come by, but they represent a 5% greater chance to hit. At character creation getting a +5% bonus is not earth shattering because, well, you're presumably not trying to hit ACs over 14 or 15 at level 1-3. If we assume we're looking for a 65-75% chance to hit, d20+2(stat)+2(prof) gets us there for AC 14. A main combat stat at 16 is also fine and gives +3+2, which is going to hit even more often until you're fighting things with AC 15 or so. You can get 16 using the UA Skill Feat thing I suggested above without people feeling like they absolutely have to choose a +2 STR race. 16 and 17 both hit 20 after two ASIs, the difference is 17 can take a skill feat with that second ASI, or can throw a point into whatever stat they've got an odd number in to give it a bonus. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 15:24
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Is the 15 point max limit good for most people? It's only a +2 bonus unless you pick a race that pumps it up a bit more. Which may be totally fine but I don't want players to feel pidgin holed into picking a race because it gives their class a bigger bonus.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:27
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Paramemetic posted:15 is high enough because in the land of bounded accuracy everything is fine and cool. If someone wants to choose one race or another to get +points in a thing, that's good and cool I suppose but it's really not necessary. The difference between 15 and 16 in a stat is +1, which doesn't make a tremendous difference at any level. The temptation is there because it gets you to 20 sooner, but for character choices I usually offsuit and balance anyhow - I throw the +2 on the 14 for 16, not on the 15 for 17. For a Dexterity character, +1 DEX is +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to AC, +1 to initiative, and +1 to DEX saves (almost always vs damage). Granted, no other stat is as far reaching as DEX, but going from +2 to +3 in your kill things number is still an overall 20% increase in your damage output no matter which is it. That's kind of actually very significant levels 1-3 when PCs are at their weakest and combat is swingy due to the low HP pools involved. And if you start low you'll still be playing catchup in that regard 11 levels later.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:55
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A [15 base, +1 human] is functionally the same as a [15 base, +2 from a more "focused" race]. They'll even both get to 20 within two ASIs. This only gets complicated if the choice is NOT getting a +2 to your main stat, but again, that's better handled by allowing a non-human race to reallocate their +2 to whichever stat they like, rather than mucking around with the point-buy values or maximums.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:10
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Conspiratiorist posted:For a Dexterity character, +1 DEX is +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to AC, +1 to initiative, and +1 to DEX saves (almost always vs damage). You're right, I keep forgetting about the adding the combat stat to the damage also. The +1 on damage is actually fairly substantial early on. Dex, as you mentioned, is of course a far reaching stat. I haven't been choosing races based on their stats, but both my kobold and kenku characters do have +dex and I haven't even been considering that. The point remains, however, that the difference between 16 and 17 is completely mechanically negligible. 15 as the high stat is sufficient and in fact more or less necessary unless you make the explicit rule "no starting above 17 points in a single skill" which if I understand correctly is baked into point buy. I have always run standard array and have yet to run into a character that I felt was too weak though is basically what I was saying. I will admit though that 16 for the combat skill does seem to be the magic number for starting, or at least that the +1 to attack damage is a significant benefit.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:19
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Yeah 16 or 17 after racials is functionally identical. The important part is starting with a sweet +3 stat bonus to rolls. Side note, Kobolds could have -2 racial in every stat and I'd still consider them good because of Pack Tactics. No idea why DMs let those little fucks in their games.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:29
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To elaborate on what I was saying, the main advantage of the 15 buy-in cap is it forces points into other categories, leading to more rounded starting characters. If instead of a pre-racials cap of 15 you have a post-racials cap of 17 then you have basically the same situations. If you're not pushed either way then yeah letting people start at 18 or 20 won't break the game.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:49
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Bounded accuracy. Huh. Every loving day I read a new thing about 5e in this thread that I have not gotten from the PHB. I started off thinking that this was basically 3e with some of the ideas from 4e, which isn't wrong but it has some new concepts too. Is there somewhere that gives a good rundown of what's different between 3e and 5e?
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Jul 13, 2017 16:50
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did they ever publish the revised ranger? or new battle master maneuvers? e: also did they ever publish any weapons that aren't simple or martial? Red Metal fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 17:05
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Bounded accuracy. Huh. Every loving day I read a new thing about 5e in this thread that I have not gotten from the PHB. I started off thinking that this was basically 3e with some of the ideas from 4e, which isn't wrong but it has some new concepts too. Is there somewhere that gives a good rundown of what's different between 3e and 5e? I thought my contribution to the OP covered it pretty well?  Bounded accuracy simply means that monster AC doesn't go up faster than your proficiency bonus (think BAB from 3e) + your strength (capped at 20/+5) will increase, so you don't need a +5 magic sword, nor do you need Weapon Focus nor Weapon Specialization to keep pace. It's like in 3e, if the Goblin you're fighting at level 1 has 12 AC, and you have 16/+3 STR and +1 BAB, you have a 65% to hit it. ... and then you get to level 20, and you don't have any feats and you don't have a Belt of Strength and you don't have a magic sword, and so you're only just rolling +20 BAB and you've increased your Strength to 21/+5 just from the level-up gains ... and Tiamat has 33 AC, so you still have a 65% chance to hit.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:08
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Red Metal posted:did they ever publish the revised ranger? or new battle master maneuvers? That's all likely gonna be in Xanathar's.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:18
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Bounded accuracy. Huh. Every loving day I read a new thing about 5e in this thread that I have not gotten from the PHB. I started off thinking that this was basically 3e with some of the ideas from 4e, which isn't wrong but it has some new concepts too. Is there somewhere that gives a good rundown of what's different between 3e and 5e? - Advantage: Roll twice and take the better d20. Disadvantage: Roll twice and take the worse d20. These are used to replace most circumstantial sources of bonuses or penalties. - No Prestige Classes. Each class has specialized subclasses called archetypes. - ASI (Ability Score Improvement) let you increase a stat by +2, or two stats by +1 each, or take a Feat. They are part of each individual class progression, usually gained every 4 levels. - "Proficiency Bonus" as a basic bonus number that goes up as you level (overall character level, not class specific) and affects most things you do. - No skill ranks: you're either proficient and get to add your Proficiency Bonus, or you don't and only roll d20+Stat. - Attacks are d20+Proficiency+Stat (+ misc effects magical or otherwise). No BAB or iterative attacks. More attacks is a class feature lit. called Extra Attack. - Spell DCs are based on 8 + Proficiency + Stat, similar to attacks. It's not reliant on spell or class level (just proficiency, which goes up with your overall character level) making multiclassing casters viable. - Level 0 spells, called cantrips, are inexhaustible at-will abilities. Many are attacks and thus let casters have a basic combat action not reliant on their spells slots or wielding a weapon. - Instead of Fort/Dex/Will saves now each stat has a save, which goes up by your proficiency bonus if you're proficient in it (class specific, + extra gained through feats or class levels). However, CON, DEX and WIS are by far the most common saves you make so  - Barring very limited class abilities, 20 on a to-hit roll is a critical. No confirmation rolls or weapon-specific modifiers apply: it doubles the number of damage die rolled. - Movement is disconnected from the 'Action' scheme. You have a limited quantity of movement (typically 30ft) which you can consume however you wish during your turn. You can move and take an action, or take an action and then move, or move during an action in the case of making multiple attacks, or even all three together as long as you have movement remaining. - You get 1 Reaction per Round. You can use it to do a single Opportunity Attack against an enemy that moves away from you without Disengaging, or to fuel a number of class/feat abilities, or the Ready (hold your turn) action. You only ever get 1. - Bonus Actions are kind sorta Swift Actions. You get 1 per Turn. - Attacking with an off-hand weapon (limited to Light weapons) doesn't have a penalty but it normally doesn't benefit from adding your stat to its damage roll. Anyone can do this at the cost of a Bonus Action. - Damage Resistance and Vulnerability halve and double damage taken, respectively. Flat Damage Reduction exists but it's very rare. - 'Finesse' is a basic weapon feature, lets you choose whether to use STR or DEX for hit&damage. - Rogue Sneak Attack works as long as the enemy is adjacent to an ally or the Rogue has advantage. No flanking rules (there are, but optional. Also bad, don't use them.). - Magic equipment is assumed rare and granted at the DMs discretion. Once basic mundane equipment is filled out, overall character prowess is disconnected from wealth. I think this is the bulk of the general rules, without getting too much into class-specific stuff. Also, bounded accuracy just refers to the fact that sources of flat bonuses are ED: - Concentration. You can only maintain one Concentration spell at a time, so no buff stacking unless multiple casters are working in tandem. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 17:33
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Why are ASIs tied to class levels rather than overall character levels? I never understood that, it just seems to punish many multiclassing choices.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:36
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Subjunctive posted:Why are ASIs tied to class levels rather than overall character levels? I never understood that, it just seems to punish many multiclassing choices. to make the class feature tables look more full
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Jul 13, 2017 17:41
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Subjunctive posted:Why are ASIs tied to class levels rather than overall character levels? I never understood that, it just seems to punish many multiclassing choices. Probably some mix of wanting to avoid multiclassing insanity while not knowing how to meaningfully fill in the class progression for non-casters. efb
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Jul 13, 2017 17:42
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Red Metal posted:to make the class feature tables look more full Oh, like all the "immune to aging" poo poo.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:43
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Subjunctive posted:Why are ASIs tied to class levels rather than overall character levels? I never understood that, it just seems to punish many multiclassing choices. because Fighters get more ASIs
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Jul 13, 2017 17:45
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gradenko_2000 posted:because Fighters get more ASIs Huh, so they do. They could still get more on top of character-wide baseline, though.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:47
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Subjunctive posted:Why are ASIs tied to class levels rather than overall character levels? I never understood that, it just seems to punish many multiclassing choices. To give Fighters more of them as a class feature and suboptomize smaller splashes in multiclassing.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:I thought my contribution to the OP covered it pretty well? I believe the main intent of bounded accuracy was more to compress how much your attack modifier and defences grew over the course of the game, so that lower-level monsters could still pose a threat in large numbers. Not requiring magic weapons/feats was kind of a separate goal.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:59
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My copy of Volo's Guide to Monsters came in. I wasn't super gung ho about getting it until it came with a big discount, coupon and free shipping on prime day. First page I open to has a table of Beholder names, including "Irv." I'm sure Irv the Beholder will have the secret knowledge we need to track down Steve the Dracolich.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:52
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gradenko_2000 posted:because Fighters get more ASIs rogues also get an extra ASI at level 10
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Jul 13, 2017 20:57
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Alright! I got a DM gig dumped in my lap. I have two days to come up with an adventure and possible campaign for 5 4th level characters. All melee. 2x Paladins, barb, ranger, and monk. I haven't played 5e much at all, and I've been out of the loop for awhile. I think I want to do something like Darkest Dungeons, where they can have a town and castle if they clear the hideous, mind-shredding, monsters from it. I want it to be semi-sandbox. I don't have time to come up with the various layouts and encounters by Saturday. Can any of you guys point me towards some premade stuff that might fit the bill? Payed content is fine.
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Jul 13, 2017 21:37
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Nehru the Damaja posted:My copy of Volo's Guide to Monsters came in. I wasn't super gung ho about getting it until it came with a big discount, coupon and free shipping on prime day. Sounds about right. I'm running Temple of Elemental Evil for my home group. They haven't encountered Elmo the town drunk yet (or his brother Otis), but they have met Rufus and Burne (pronounced Burn-E, because he's a pyromancer you see). Remember the classic spell that Melf (the male Elf) invented? I'm saying stupid, no effort names are a staple of D&D and have been forever. The Dregs posted:Alright! I got a DM gig dumped in my lap. I have two days to come up with an adventure and possible campaign for 5 4th level characters. All melee. 2x Paladins, barb, ranger, and monk. I haven't played 5e much at all, and I've been out of the loop for awhile. I think I want to do something like Darkest Dungeons, where they can have a town and castle if they clear the hideous, mind-shredding, monsters from it. I want it to be semi-sandbox. If they're ok with a standard dungeon crawl you could do worse than the donjon random generator https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/dungeon/ 8one6 fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 21:48
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The Dregs posted:Alright! I got a DM gig dumped in my lap. I have two days to come up with an adventure and possible campaign for 5 4th level characters. All melee. 2x Paladins, barb, ranger, and monk. I haven't played 5e much at all, and I've been out of the loop for awhile. I think I want to do something like Darkest Dungeons, where they can have a town and castle if they clear the hideous, mind-shredding, monsters from it. I want it to be semi-sandbox. That group sounds like the cast of Predator. Cool Dad fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 21:49
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God drat that's a fun sounding idea. For the DM.
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Jul 13, 2017 21:56
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The table I'm DMing right now has 2 fighters, a paladin, and a mystic, and an occasional bard. It's a homebrewed campaign setting and I am lovin' it because encounter scaling is as easy as "more dudes that die in one hit" or "big hitpoints." Anything magic is Very Scary making it very easy for me to cook things up. A++ ban all wizards from tables IMO
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Jul 13, 2017 22:53
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Paramemetic posted:The table I'm DMing right now has 2 fighters, a paladin, and a mystic, and an occasional bard. It's a homebrewed campaign setting and I am lovin' it because encounter scaling is as easy as "more dudes that die in one hit" or "big hitpoints." Anything magic is Very Scary making it very easy for me to cook things up. A++ ban all wizards from tables IMO Eldritch Knight confirmed second-cast citizen.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:57
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Reclaimer posted:Eldritch Knight confirmed second-cast citizen. EK is one of the fighters, you're a majority!!!
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Jul 13, 2017 23:11
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Paramemetic posted:The table I'm DMing right now has 2 fighters, a paladin, and a mystic, and an occasional bard. It's a homebrewed campaign setting and I am lovin' it because encounter scaling is as easy as "more dudes that die in one hit" or "big hitpoints." Anything magic is Very Scary making it very easy for me to cook things up. A++ ban all wizards from tables IMO Conan the Barbarian 'wizards are bad and evil monsters to kill' rules should just be applied to dnd period imo.
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Jul 14, 2017 00:12
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As a minor sidenote, you don't get any Bonus Actions in a turn unless you have an ability or spell or whatever that expressly says it requires a Bonus Action. I'm pretty sure the distinction doesn't ever come up since you can't trade down to a Bonus Action by it's there.
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Jul 14, 2017 03:17
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