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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:. it's a sign you're passionate about coding, not just there for that paycheck What's wrong about just being there for the paycheck? Like i enjoy coding and i read about it in my free time, and build side projects and the like, but this is the only profession where I've seen this demand that you be super invested in working on your craft all the time constantly. Like I don't expect most plumbers are asked "oh, so do you do much home plumbing? When you go home, do you build pipe assemblies?" or technical writers "Yes, could you bring out some fanfiction you've written on your own time, we'd really like to assess it". If you can demonstrate proficiency and are willing to work the 40 hours a week, does it really matter if you really love coding, or if its just a job? Like right now I have time to code in my off time sure, but are employers really expecting people with families and children and possibly even hobbies to be coding a few hours a week outside of work on top of dealing with all of that? TheCog fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 00:53
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I hate the notion that some have that you have to code in your free time in addition to your full-time job that is also coding in order to be worth a drat. I only have so much brain power to spend in a given day and it's generally spent by 5. I don't think it's really reasonable to expect that. Portfolios help for fresh grads though, even if it's just putting your school capstone project up there.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:31
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I have never shared my github with anyone ever and I have had very good jobs
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Jul 12, 2017 02:07
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Having a portfolio/github becomes less and less important the more verifiable work experience you have
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Jul 12, 2017 02:09
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At one interview like 3-4 years ago I asked if they looked at my Github and they didn't know what Github was
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Jul 12, 2017 02:17
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What's really cool is being asked if you've used git or know the commands to clone or branch when Github links are all over your resume. For what it's worth, my employer is one of the first to actually look at one of my projects before bringing me on site.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:18
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Do you guys with GitHub portfolios use a professional sounding name for your GitHub accounts instead of say, your SA username?
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Jul 12, 2017 02:49
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I use my first and and middle initial and my last name.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:53
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ddiddles posted:I use my first and and middle initial and my last name. This as well, because I feel too old for Internet handles these days. OTOH, I've worked with skilled leads with fun names or web comic avatars, and it's not a big deal.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:56
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TheCog posted:What's wrong about just being there for the paycheck? Like i enjoy coding and i read about it in my free time, and build side projects and the like, but this is the only profession where I've seen this demand that you be super invested in working on your craft all the time constantly. Like I don't expect most plumbers are asked "oh, so do you do much home plumbing? When you go home, do you build pipe assemblies?" or technical writers "Yes, could you bring out some fanfiction you've written on your own time, we'd really like to assess it". If you can demonstrate proficiency and are willing to work the 40 hours a week, does it really matter if you really love coding, or if its just a job? Like right now I have time to code in my off time sure, but are employers really expecting people with families and children and possibly even hobbies to be coding a few hours a week outside of work on top of dealing with all of that? It's better to compare programming to doctors and lawyers than to plumbers. We don't have the credentialing requirements that doctors and lawyers have, but we do have a far less job security. Programmers run a huge risk of being left jobless if they aren't continually improving themselves. You don't *have* to have the passion to improve your skills over nights and weekends, but for many of the better jobs it is expected that this is a passion, and extra work is what passion means. The people hiring for those jobs are passionate themselves, and want to work around similar people. There are plenty of jobs for strict 9-5ers, but pursuing those could easily put a cap on your career growth over time.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:33
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lifg posted:Programmers run a huge risk of being left jobless if they aren't continually improving themselves. This reminds me of a coding style I kept running into with one of the most senior Java developers at my last job. His default classes when he needed a List was Vector and when he needed a Map was Hashtable. Both classes are thread-safe, which is unnecessary overhead for local variables, so Java 1.2 added ArrayList and HashMap as drop-in replacements that had no synchronization. I'd look at the code and think how neither was technically wrong and the uncontested synchronization probably wouldn't slow anything down too much, but I'd come away from it wondering why this developer's go-to collection classes hadn't evolved in all this time. So I guess that might be what interviewers are looking for when they ask this kind of stuff. This is why, during my six-month unemployment period (which should be wrapping up soon), I made sure to fart around with newer stuff like Ceylon, to break out of my comfort zone a bit and see what all this stuff like "immutability by default" was about. I'd argue that there should be some work time set aside to keep up with new technologies, of course.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:46
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I will from time to time do a personal project or read up on something new / refresh something old, but it doesn't happen often, and none of it is on github or any such service. I love what I do, but I have other stuff to do and interests in life, and for extended periods I feel the work I do is enough to fulfill this greatest interest of mine (or "passion").
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Jul 12, 2017 09:25
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CPColin posted:This reminds me of a coding style I kept running into with one of the most senior Java developers at my last job. His default classes when he needed a List was Vector and when he needed a Map was Hashtable. Both classes are thread-safe, which is unnecessary overhead for local variables, so Java 1.2 added ArrayList and HashMap as drop-in replacements that had no synchronization. This is definitely the kind of thing you will learn during work without ever setting work- or free-time aside to keep up with technology. One can be surprised how much falls into this category, and that is why experience is great.
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Jul 12, 2017 09:29
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lifg posted:It's better to compare programming to doctors and lawyers than to plumbers. We don't have the credentialing requirements that doctors and lawyers have, but we do have a far less job security. Programmers run a huge risk of being left jobless if they aren't continually improving themselves. So you don't have to have but you kinda do if you want a better paying job and/or further your career. Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 12:34
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Basically. There's kind of a culture among software engineers where the ones with a whole bunch of personal projects are perceived as the most productive and/or dedicated ones - to the point that personal projects can be a major part of your resume. At least, in my experience. I've been criticized before for not having more and more recent personal projects on my resume (not here). I disagree with it, but employers/recruiters have been told to look for that, so v  v
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Jul 12, 2017 13:40
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Hello thread, I worked at a software engineering company for three+ years in Support and recently bullshitted my way into a PDQA position in the same company. I have no idea what I am doing because I have no development experience, so I am running with the knowledge I gleaned by being in the same building and the times I had to closely track software defect tickets that I reported through the development/bugfixing process to see the fix through to prod (so I know ticketing processes, our test servers and their silly names, the chain of command, ect). I know our software better than just about anyone when it comes to its actual usage by our customer base (which doesnt say much, heh), so I am essentially running on that and trying to pick everything else up as I go without making an rear end out of myself (this has been only moderately successful). One of the the long term goals is that we want to further automate regression testing and to get on board with that I have to learn to do some Java coding. I am completely unfamiliar with coding in general or Java coding (I have been told that I talk, type, explain things, and report defects like a programmer (because I am so deliberate and detailed)) - is there a guide or a wiki article or anything you guys could recommend that could give me a basic rundown on Git<stuff>(gitlab, github and the differences/key bits/ect) and maybe some programming basics? I've done a few google searches but it is a vast field so I would rather take the recommendation of random dudes on somethingawful.com rather than the internet at large. edited in some clarity edit2: Oh and I taught myself AHK back in Support to automate a bunch of my job there because I am lazy as gently caress and my company is too cheap to hire a Salesforce admin so I had to do WAY more clicking than should have been necessary on each and every one of the hundreds of tickets I worked in a given week. I have been working on leveraging AHK to automate a bunch of the repetitive tasks in my manual testing processes as a QA, so I am hoping my AHK knowledge will give me some sort of insight or preparation when it comes to real programming. edit3: ugh so many words, forgive me AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 17:39
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Hello thread, I worked at a software engineering company for three+ years in Support and recently bullshitted my way into a PDQA position in the same company. I have no idea what I am doing because I have no development experience, so I am running with the knowledge I gleaned by being in the same building and the times I had to closely track software defect tickets that I reported through the development/bugfixing process to see the fix through to prod (so I know ticketing processes, our test servers and their silly names, the chain of command, ect). I know our software better than just about anyone when it comes to its actual usage by our customer base (which doesnt say much, heh), so I am essentially running on that and trying to pick everything else up as I go without making an rear end out of myself (this has been only moderately successful). While I know you want to start learning to do coding for the things you are doing right now, I'd suggest you start from scratch. If you try to learn automated regression testing without learning the basics, there's going to be way too much black magic going on. Start with something simple, like https://www.codecademy.com/learn/learn-java. From there, maybe start a trivial Java project in a similar environment as your current workplace, and write some trivial tests for it. Don't be afraid to ask the devs at your workplace for help, knowing how THEY code will help you in QA.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:48
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I think that if you want to be a coder, you code. If you want to test, you test. Someone who codes tests, is still a coder so approach it as such.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:54
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ddiddles posted:I'm currently interviewing with four different companies for my first front end dev job, and each one of them mentioned my site and my portfolio/github. On one of the jobs, the dev team actually picked my application because they looked through my github account. Speaking of these interviews, I'm on interview number three with one of them, and it's a screen share coding test. Does anyone have any experience with doing these in the front end dev world? Do they usually allow you to look up reference material to answer a specific problem? I can code pretty decently, but a usually have to look up a certain syntax or regex string if its something more complicated. I didn't really want to ask the company because I'm dumb and paranoid it would make them think I don't know anything.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:51
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ddiddles posted:Speaking of these interviews, I'm on interview number three with one of them, and it's a screen share coding test. Does anyone have any experience with doing these in the front end dev world? Do they usually allow you to look up reference material to answer a specific problem? In my case they just wanted to see my workflow so everything was allowed: Google, Dash, etc. I limited myself to language references only though.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:55
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ddiddles posted:Speaking of these interviews, I'm on interview number three with one of them, and it's a screen share coding test. Does anyone have any experience with doing these in the front end dev world? Do they usually allow you to look up reference material to answer a specific problem? I've been on both ends of the interview process where this came up. I was always allowed/encouraged to reference docs and things during the coding exercises and I always reflected that same attitude when I interviewed people.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:59
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If you Google stuff and you skip the w3schools links at the top of all of the search results then congrats you got the job
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Jul 13, 2017 00:00
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ddiddles posted:Speaking of these interviews, I'm on interview number three with one of them, and it's a screen share coding test. Does anyone have any experience with doing these in the front end dev world? Do they usually allow you to look up reference material to answer a specific problem? 1) Ask. 2) Never feel dumb. Everyone codes with google open. 3) Screen sharing is 100% about seeing your thought process. Hopefully they understand point 2 is part of that.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:01
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ROFLburger posted:If you Google stuff and you skip the w3schools links at the top of all of the search results then congrats you got the job Man I hope so, W3 is the fuckin worst. Thanks for the answers, I shot them another email asking if reference is allowed.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:25
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TheCog posted:What's wrong about just being there for the paycheck? Because if you're working a salaried position then you get the same paycheck regardless of the quality of your work, they are probably looking for someone who takes some pride in what they do because then you kind of self-police your code and hold yourself to a high standard. If you don't think it matters, feel free to tell your next interviewer that you don't really care about programming but are just there for the paycheck and see how well you go. At any rate you've kind of inverted what I'm saying. I'm saying working outside of hours on your own projects demonstrates passion for coding, I'm not saying passion for coding can ONLY be demonstrated by working outside of hours on your own projects. putin is a cunt fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 02:31
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No one would be there if it weren't for the paycheck. I get that it's great to have passion but when companies demand their workers to be "passionate" and "love what they do", I can't help but view that with a bit of suspicion.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:16
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Merriam-Webster English Dictionary posted:Definition of passion Sounds about right.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:21
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GrimmGamer posted:Okay, cool, thanks for all the advice guys. I feel a lot less discouraged now. I'll definitely stay clear of places like Revature because they seem decently shady. I guess I'll just get a retail job while I work on some cool stuff to learn/show off my programming skills to potential employers. Revature is a mixed bag. They'll provide you training and housing, but they'll want you to work for them for two years. They'll probably get you a position, but it could be anywhere in the US, and they'll take a chunk out of your salary. FDM is a similar company but they're based in NYC. When dealing with companies like that, the most important things are being knowledgeable about what they're offering and also being knowledgeable, and firm, about what you want.
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Jul 13, 2017 09:45
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qsvui posted:No one would be there if it weren't for the paycheck. Well, I mean...what are you suspicious about? They want employees to have passion because they think they'll be more valuable employees. That's not exactly a secret.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:50
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If you were really passionate about our work, you'd work weekends. Or maybe we should replace you with someone who would?
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Jul 13, 2017 16:54
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Pollyanna posted:If you were really passionate about our work, you'd work weekends. Or maybe we should replace you with someone who would? The world isn't black and white. Enthusiasm is considered a positive trait in employees, this should be obvious. Doesn't mean it is all that matters, and that every single employer is a complete psychopath and expect "enthusiasm" to mean a religious fervor of dedication towards the company. There are many ways to demonstrate enthusiasm. Side projects are one.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:57
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Today a recruiter called for a contracting position where I was expected to meet deadlines and spend all time at the office with a 40h minimum. So you mean results AND attendance? Please let's be civil adults and agree on results, then I do those at the best fitting place and time. If a lot of interaction is needed I will come to the office, if I need to code lots I rather WFH or some other quiet spot. No, minimum attendance. I declined and saved everyone a bunch of time.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:31
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Relatedly, I've been full time work from home for over a year, and I'm worried I'll never be able to go back to working in an office
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Jul 13, 2017 19:19
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Companies are getting really gunshy about allowing WFH/remote. I suspect that they're running into productivity issues that likely aren't the fault of WFH/remote, but cannot be covered up anymore.
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Jul 13, 2017 19:29
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Yea my company isn't allowing people to go fully remote or hiring any new remote people (for the most part, anyway) cause the newish CEO has a hard on for colocated teams and "water cooler conversations". Personally I'd rather just get poo poo done and use Slack to talk to my teammates, but I don't have an MBA so what do I know?
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Jul 13, 2017 19:38
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camoseven posted:Relatedly, I've been full time work from home for over a year, and I'm worried I'll never be able to go back to working in an office Two years here and yeah. I have actually passed up some offers with better pay because of that.
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Jul 13, 2017 19:44
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My productivity is determined by the amount of monitors i have, and at work i have 3 so i'm 3x less productive at home At work i can code AND browse the forums at the same time
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Jul 13, 2017 20:06
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Grump posted:My productivity is determined by the amount of monitors i have, and at work i have 3 so i'm 3x less productive at home This is why I'm going to start a company with 1 employee and 5000 monitors.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:13
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The Architect approach.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:13
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Grump posted:My productivity is determined by the amount of monitors i have, and at work i have 3 so i'm 3x less productive at home Why can't you get 3 monitors at home? I don't think I could live with less.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:01
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