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Is there an official goon Discord/IRC for either 4e or general RPG stuff?
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Jul 13, 2017 23:36
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Does the complete lack of feedback on my made-up town mean it's good or terrible? 
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Jul 14, 2017 19:39
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I think it means we're guilty of terrible 
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Jul 14, 2017 20:10
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PMush Perfect posted:The Slaying Stone is pretty good, as long as you're flexible with how you handle the noncombat parts, since those can be a little awkward as-written. Agreed. When I ran this it felt awkward when I tried sticking to the module. Although I have never really felt that confident running any kind of non combat stuff that isn't more than talking with NPCs. Anyone know of any good examples of how something like the Slaying Stone exploration would play out? Like, the rogue wanted to sneak around to detect patrols. I determined that he could scout ahead and direct the party so they could all remain undetected. While trying to come up with a couple more obstacles so the party could get a few more successes it felt really contrived. I don't actually run skill challenges anymore (because they're terrible) but I ran Slaying Stone years ago when I still had hope.
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Jul 15, 2017 05:36
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Hm, can't decide what to get for my 4E Drow Red Sands Executioners level 2 feat, it's between cunning stalker(CA against anyone I'm fighting against as long as I'm the only one adjacent to them, though we have quite a few melee characters), or ruthless hunter(hand crossbow goes from 1d6 to 1d8 and becomes a high crit weapon), or something else. as far as I know no books are off limits. This being my first 4e campaign isn't really helping in terms of knowing decent feats 
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Jul 16, 2017 11:05
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Do you have an expertise feat? If not, get an expertise feat.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:06
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Hopefully expertise and improved defenses are houseruled to be free feats. If not, I agree that an expertise feat is your best bet. Also a feat you may want to look at if you plan on making use of a hand crossbow is a rogue multiclass feat, like Sneak of Shadows (or any other one). The reason is that there's a rogue-only feat, Two-Fisted Shooter, which lets you hold hand crossbows in your off-hand and load them one-handed and as a free action, as well as being able to make a free ranged basic attack with the hand crossbow if you score a critical hit. Next feat you grab Drow Fighting Style and you can make attacks with your hand crossbow without ever provoking opportunity attacks (such as if you use it when an enemy is in a square adjacent to you). In total it's a three feat chain, so it takes a while to come together, but if the game will last long enough that you can get all three feats it's a pretty good setup. Edit: I don't remember the mechanics that executioners get so maybe this stuff is unnecessary? I know they get quick swap for free, but that's about it.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:44
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Yeah got expertise and imp defenses as houseruled, first level feat was sneak of shadows. Crossbows are nice(especially for a drow), but red sands executioners are the ones that prefer the garrote. Nalesh fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 21:14
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Yeah I'm not super knowledgable on non-hybrid executioners, but for a hand crossbow focused drow, at least, multiclassing into rogue for More Hand Crossbow is rarely a bad idea. Also, and this is probably too late, but there's a real good theme for drow who have even a bit of executioner in them (for Venom Hand Master). It's Skulker of Vhaeraun and yes, it is all about poison damage, but executioners can straight up ignore immunity in enemies to poison, and Skulker actually makes poison...I mean look. It ain't Radiant Damage. But it's entirely viable so long as you have Skulker and Executioner. Now, you WILL hit a problem: there's no magic item that gives ranged weapons poison damage, so you won't be doing poison damage 24/7 all day erry day. There are ways around that, especially as an Executioner (Serpentine Bracers add poison damage to every attack you make while hidden, and Envenomed Ki Focus gives you an item bonus to damage, so you don't miss out on Bracers of <Whatever Bullshit>) but it doesn't kick in at level 2. Again though, depending on your group optimization level, that's not really a problem - executioners already can add poison to their attacks from their dailies, Skulker itself adds it to a round, etc. It's something to look forward to.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:33
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I'm going to start session 0 tomorrow, and have the players choose their characters and do some introductory stuff (mainly differences between 4e and 5e), so I want to run by a few things. Also, thanks again from the goon who posted this: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/simplified-modifiers-for-dd-4e/ which I plan to use. Q1) The chart mentions that the +2/+3 for weapon modifier isn't taken into account. Would it be fine to simply bake that +2 into the table, and when a player wants to use a weapon with a +3 modifier, treat it as an 'accurate' weapon and give it a +1 (since the +2 is baked in already)? Seems logical to me, but maybe there's a reason not to do that? Q2) Because feats like Versatile Expertise and Improved Defenses are baked in, I'm honestly considering banning feats altogether. They seem too crunchy, and instead I'd let players choose rituals or skill powers from PHB3 in place of feats. Will the math break down if I do this, assuming this chart is in play which bakes some feats in? Which feats (in general) should I allow if feats are necessary? Q3) Someone suggested nerfing healing surge in some way. Either A) Reducing the number by about half, or B) Powers that let you heal always consume a healing surge, even if they state otherwise (no free healing rule). Thoughts? Anything else I should consider doing?
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Jul 17, 2017 18:20
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Feats are the worst part of 4E character creation, because they are basically used to do so many things. While banning feats sounds good on paper, the real problem is that several classes have essentially mandatory feats (beyond the usual expertise and defenses) to be functional. Warlocks and avengers kind of blow rear end without taking several feats that the devs introduced after they realized the classes were kind of weak and broken. Essentials classes, despite generally being big bags of rear end, are actually much better off than normal classes if you delete feats altogether, because E-classes have 3E style class progression that grants them new class features (rather than just powers) as they level up. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 19:01
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Dick Burglar posted:Feats are the worst part of 4E character creation, because they are basically used to do so many things. While banning feats on paper, the real problem is that several classes have essentially mandatory feats (beyond the usual expertise and defenses) to be functional. Warlocks and avengers kind of blow rear end without taking several feats that the devs introduced after they realized the classes were kind of weak and broken. When were these introduced? I don't want to hand my newer players a list of 100 feats and be like, "a couple of these are mandatory, the rest are garbage good luck." Hell, I might just hand those feats to them and continue to let them pick up other things, if necessary. In my eyes, picking up feats that make your character work should just happen, so they can spend more time picking up fun out of combat rituals or fun skill powers.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:21
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1) Implement powers don't get the weapon proficiency modifiers. Spells and the like usually target the non-AC defenses, which are often lower than AC, so the hit rate is about the same. Baking in that modifier will be like adding +2 to the attack roll of every wizard spell, before things like combat advantage and Leader buffs, so it's not too hard to make it so casters are almost perfectly accurate. 2) Even if feats didn't have all sorts of fun and cool stuff to do, there are enough classes and builds that practically require specific feats to do their job well that I can't recommend banning them. And at least half the reason to prepay the feat taxes is to make room for the fun stuff. 3) Healing surges are fine. With Monster Manual 3 math, monsters hit hard, and your Leaders are only going to have so many actions to spend on healing. If players are coasting on what surgeless healing they can find, add a monster or two to their next fight. User0015 posted:When were these introduced? I don't want to hand my newer players a list of 100 feats and be like, "a couple of these are mandatory, the rest are garbage good luck." Hell, I might just hand those feats to them and continue to let them pick up other things, if necessary. In my eyes, picking up feats that make your character work should just happen, so they can spend more time picking up fun out of combat rituals or fun skill powers. Some of them appeared in issues of Dragon, others in books. Your best bet for finding what feats are necessary for what build of what class are searching for the various class handbooks people have put up on forums. Google like "4e Wizard Handbook" and you'll get a thread of what stuff's good and why. There are thousands of published feats, so the handbooks are nice.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:34
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User0015 posted:Q2) Because feats like Versatile Expertise and Improved Defenses are baked in, I'm honestly considering banning feats altogether. They seem too crunchy, and instead I'd let players choose rituals or skill powers from PHB3 in place of feats. Will the math break down if I do this, assuming this chart is in play which bakes some feats in? Which feats (in general) should I allow if feats are necessary? quote:Q3) Someone suggested nerfing healing surge in some way. Either A) Reducing the number by about half, or B) Powers that let you heal always consume a healing surge, even if they state otherwise (no free healing rule).
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Jul 17, 2017 20:10
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I can kind of see where the healing surge thing is coming from if you allow unrestricted rests. Because you'll rarely even get close to burning through them if unless you have a really bad day. But if you just fix surges, you're going to have the same issue with APs and dailies. What I've seen mentioned a lot is switching from a "6-8 hours is a long rest" to a "long weekend somewhere safe and relaxing is a long rest". As for feats, yeah, they're a pretty core part of a lot of classes. What I could see instead of banning them is handing the player a list of 3 or so each time they're eligible for one and having them pick from that. That requires a lot of system mastery and knowledge of their build, but that's something you could farm out to the thread.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:47
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Restricting feats to race, class and multiclass feats would definitely be the best way to make them more approachable, since those are the ones that do the most interesting things (also include domain feats for divine classes) and it shortens the list from hundreds to a few dozens of feats per tier for most classes.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:03
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But it also blocks fun feats like World Serpent's Grasp.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:28
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Just give people the guides as scaffolding. Or produce a mini feat list drawn from the guide for each of your players. Honestly this is the easiest way to do it
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Jul 17, 2017 23:35
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User0015 posted:I'm going to start session 0 tomorrow, and have the players choose their characters and do some introductory stuff (mainly differences between 4e and 5e), so I want to run by a few things. Also, thanks again from the goon who posted this: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/simplified-modifiers-for-dd-4e/ which I plan to use. You're welcome  1. As I said in the post, those bonuses don't yet include weapon proficiency bonuses. The vast majority of weapons use a +2 weapon proficiency bonus. If you want, you can simply add-in that +2, but there are a few weapons that have a +3 proficiency bonus instead, and that might matter. It's up to you. Frankly, the distinction between weapon attacks and implement attacks (which don't use a proficiency bonus at all, since they target Fort/Ref/Will defenses) means that people need to think about the weapon that they're using anyway, so you might as well track it "by-the-book". 2. There are enough bonuses and abilities (and potential combos) to be had from feats that I wouldn't advise getting rid of them completely. The solution here is to simply let the players choose what they like, and don't hold them to any strict permanence. Throw out a general recommendation like Improved Initiative, and if they discover something else later on, let them change it "for free". 3. The best way to "moderate" healing surges is to make it difficult, if not explicitly impossible, to take an Extended Rest. Don't give players the opportunity to take a rest until they're down to their last reserves and you'll be fine. This does mean using MM3 (or harder) monsters so that you're actually depleting surges quickly enough across combat, and it does mean playing aggressively and competitively. Don't be afraid to focus fire, gang-up on players, and gently caress with them. They should have the tools to deal with it.
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Jul 18, 2017 07:48
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One thing that gets overlooked a lot if you play "by the book" is that you can't take an extended rest unless you've been awake for I think 16 hours. That doesn't solve every problem surrounding extended rests by a long shot, but it does mean that if a party tries to pull the old "we fight one group of enemies, then retreat to rest before the next" trick, they give the enemy a lot of time to react and change the situation. That's a good rule of thumb, I'd say: if your party decides to rest before they've fought four encounters, the situation changes for the worse. The goblins attack another village, the necromancer replenishes his zombie supply, the bandits move their hostage to the main camp. Four to five encounters earns you the right to rest without fear of waking up to disaster - if only because that's about the time it should take to accomplish an immediate objective anyway.
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Jul 18, 2017 09:52
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Hey, please help with my personal arcs subsystem? here's the first draft Namely, I haven't run enough long-term games to tinker with the reward tiers.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:06
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So my players are starting to nail down their characters. One player is for sure a Bard, and another player is currently deciding between Druid, Ranger, Barbarian, Sorcerer and Wizard (yeah I know). We'll see where he ends up. The third player is where I could use some advice: He always ends up playing ranged shoot mans characters and wants to mix it up with a tanky support role. He also seemed to express interest in either healing or buffing allies while getting in the face of enemies. Paladin? Warden? Warpriest, if that's even a thing? Whats a good defender-y, ally buffing class?
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Jul 19, 2017 18:54
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Runepriest sounds right up his alley.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:02
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Countblanc posted:Runepriest sounds right up his alley. Paladin is also a good bet for leaning leader as long as you're not doing a 2H build (they're more of a part striker -- which could actually be really helpful if your undecided guy goes with a controller). Warpriests are a cleric build, and they're still full Leaders. Runepriests are basically what you're looking for here. Depending on how your other undecided guy goes though, you might want to also point him at tanky strikers to get more damage in the party. One of the barbarian builds is kind of leader-y. And one of the warlock builds has a side of Leader. I think it's one of the ones that can go either CON or CHA, but I can't remember of the top of my head.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:18
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Keep in mind that the bard is already a full leader and will do plenty of healing and buffing by default. Paladin would be good for player #3 - they're defenders but they're quite good at being a secondary buffer, and I think they even have some ranged options. Defenders generally want to be in melee, though. Another option might be a lifespirit warden (Primal Power). I wouldn't have two leaders like a runepriest or cleric in a three person party - you can do it but it doesn't play to the system's strengths. If you do go for it, also consider an archer warlord (Martial Power 2). Ideally your undecided player would then play a striker (ranger, barbarian or sorcerer) and you'd have a great party setup with one leader, striker and defender each. Controllers aren't as essential as either of those.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:33
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Oh, that's right. Runepriests are the other way around aren't they: leader with a side of defender. In that case, yeah. Probably not one of them.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:40
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The group will hopefully be bigger than 3. I'm trying to recruit a few more people, but it's been surprisingly difficult for people interested in 4e. It's like they heard someone complain about "MMO D&D" and won't even give it a chance. We're running a Shadowrun/4e bi-weekly game, and we've gotten 10x the response to shadowrun than 4e.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:53
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User0015 posted:So my players are starting to nail down their characters. One player is for sure a Bard, and another player is currently deciding between Druid, Ranger, Barbarian, Sorcerer and Wizard (yeah I know). We'll see where he ends up. The third player is where I could use some advice: He always ends up playing ranged shoot mans characters and wants to mix it up with a tanky support role. He also seemed to express interest in either healing or buffing allies while getting in the face of enemies. Paladin? Warden? Warpriest, if that's even a thing? Strength clerics are a lot of fun and have a lot more published support than runepriests, which were introduced right before Wizards shifted over to Essentials crap. Otherwise, warlord's the quintessential ally-buffing class, but might be a bit redundant with the bard. If your dude wants a defender first, ally-buffer second, then paladin is probably the way to go.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:02
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Valorous warrior type who stands in the front lines, blocking the enemy off with sword and shield, while healing and aiding the party, is pretty much the straight up definition of a Charisma based paladin.
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Jul 20, 2017 04:04
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Hi thread! I have the opportunity to play in a 4e game for the first time in over five years. As you can imagine, I'm pretty rusty with the system by now. Last I played, I was interested in an Assault Swordmage|Feylock build going into Feytouched in paragon to maximize Slashing Wake teleports. I doubt it will be particularly optimal, but as long as it's reasonably capable it sounds fun to play. Also, while I haven't played with everyone in this group, I'm usually the most optimization-minded, so I'm not too worried about falling behind. Here's where I'm starting (we start at level 3): pre:====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Eladrin Swordmage|Warlock, level 3 Eladrin, Swordmage|Warlock Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Assault Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Fey Pact (Hybrid) Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex Background: Birth - On Another Plane (+2 to Arcana) Theme: Iliyanbruen Guardian FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 18. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 16. AC: 17 Fort: 12 Reflex: 16 Will: 17 HP: 36 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 9 TRAINED SKILLS Intimidate +10, Diplomacy +10, History +12, Arcana +14 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +1, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering, Endurance +2, Heal, Insight, Nature, Perception, Religion +5, Stealth +1, Streetwise +5, Thievery +1, Athletics +2 FEATS Level 1: Eladrin Swordmage Advance Level 2: White Lotus Riposte POWERS Hybrid at-will 1: Sword Burst Hybrid at-will 1: Eldritch Strike Hybrid encounter 1: Witchfire Hybrid daily 1: Decree of Khirad Hybrid utility 2: Fey Bargain Hybrid encounter 3: Dimensional Vortex ITEMS Leather Armor ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ====== Can I do anything fun with Eldritch Strike's at-will slide, bearing in mind I need to use a blade? I believe we will have a Flail Expertise slide-proning character as well. Is there an easy way to rapidly propagate Warlock's Curse? Is it worth carrying a Rod of Corruption in my off hand for this? I have a nagging feeling I may be starved for minor actions but I can't tell how true that will be in practice. Ability scores. Obviously I have to use a 16-16 arrangement, but those tend to make distributing the remaining points annoying. Am I missing any cool feat pre-reqs here? Any other general recommendations are welcome.
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Jul 20, 2017 13:38
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Slashing Wake was errataed to once per turn, fyi. Also White Lotus Riposte is definitely fine and good early on, but at paragon White Lotus Master Riposte was errataed to only work if the enemy is not marked by you. So eventually the damage from White Lotus Riposte loses its lustre and around mid-levels I usually retrain it away. That aside, Assault Swordmage / Warlock is barrels of fun. You can do everything from World Serpent's Grasp or something similar to turn the Smack/Slide into a Smack/Slide/Prone if you can find the slows. I had a build that used Well of Shadows & Battle Standard of the Hungry Blade for this, for example. Of course, that's a little unnecessary if you have a flail guy doing the exact same thing, so what you could do instead is go for Psychic Lock activated by Mindbite Scorn, which you could get even as a Feylock by taking Twofold Pact come paragon. Then stack Protective Hex on top of that. Swordmage | Warlock hybrids are terribly starved both for minor actions and feats. Anything you can do to mark/curse faster is good. I really like the Arcane Familiar feat, of the Disembodied Hand or Rakshasa Claw variety, which will let you item swap as a free action so you can juggle swords and implements, which would also let you more easily use rods with properties that don't depend on attacking/hitting with the rod. Come paragon you'll also want Twofold Curse, but again, feat starved. Retraining feats to paragon feats at 11+ is what I usually do. Don't forget an expertise feat, White Lotus Dueling Expertise gives staff proficiency and everything you do is Arcane, Versatile Expertise is good too. Your defenses are all going to come from items. You'll want Cloak of Translocation to combo with Ethereal Stride that you get at Utility 10. Phantom Chasseurs to replicate Shadow Walk. Belt of Vim upgrade at each tier for untyped +fort or Cincture of the Githzerai maybe. Armor of Dark Majesty, making it hide can get +1 fort masterwork armors, at the cost of yet another feat for Hide Proficiency. If you're going to be juggling with Arcane Familiar anyway you could go for Aversion Staff instead of the armor for the same effect in the hand slot instead - for Aversion Staff, Cursed and Marked both count. While we're stacking defense buffs Helm of Able Defense is quite neat. If you can't rely on a huge host of paragon-level items to maintain defenses, then I recommend powers. Witchfire is so good that it's worth having even in paragon or epic. Mire the Mind can be ridiculous although that's more for a build that abuses invisibility like an Evermeet Warlock or an Elusive Hexer -> Shadow Walk stealth-optimization build. And of course there are all the interrupts a swordmage can have, but the one I recommend is Warp in the Weave which is an U6 arcana skill power. If you don't want to spend a power slot on it, there's always the Skill Power feat. Are you sure you want Misty Step? Swordmage Warding is kind of annoying with the free hand requirement, but either it or Shadow Walk are the biggest defense buffs you have. If anything, take Hybrid Talent for Shadow Walk early on and then retrain it to Misty Step at level 8 or 9 or so. I can't say I'm too keen on Fey Bargain either, Mythal Recover or Ethereal Stride were always my go-to if I wasn't taking Arcane Mutterings. Armor Proficiency: Hide requires 13 str and 13 con. That's about the only thing you might be looking for wrt stat prereqs, but 13 of each basically requires you to be in paragon before you get it.
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Jul 20, 2017 18:45
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This is a really great response, thanks a lot. I had seen the Slashing Wake errata—in fact, that's an important reason I want to get Misty Step, so I have more off-turn teleport abilities. I also figured I would eventually get rid of White Lotus Riposte because I would be transitioning away from using many at-wills beyond Eldritch Strike OAs/mark enforcement MBAs. I'm seeing a lot of suggestions here that don't come up until paragon. Those are good, and I appreciate them, but I'm not going to worry about them too much right this instant because I expect to be in heroic for quite a while. Right now I'm thinking I may Hybrid Talent into Swordmage Warding early with the option to swap it out later. Since I'm mainly interested in Misty Step for its interaction with Slashing Wake when one of my allies kills a cursed target, I don't have much need for it until paragon rolls around. I suppose if I could afford two more feats and 13 Dexterity, I could pick up an Assassin multiclass and Cursed Shadow to get Shadow Walk. I'm not sure if that's worth the contortion, though. Item-juggling familiars are definitely worth looking into with Swordmage Warding. And thanks for mentioning expertise—that reminds me to check whether I need to handle math-fixing myself. I'll be honest, none of the utilities really grabbed me. Definitely not set on one yet. I may have a look around skill powers and rejigger my skills if I like one.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:30
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One of Armor of Dark Majesty or Arcane Familiar + Aversion Staff is probably your best bet to be sturdier in heroic, along with one of the two defensive Hybrid Talents. Oh, one more thing on getting the most out of mark punishing slides, one way to do this is to have a bunch of zone powers and smack the offender into them. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 05:52
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Swordmage/Warlock as a striker can work but it also makes me at least a little bit sad because goddamn is it one hell of a defender. Problem: Long Night Scion is better then Feytouched in literally every way. Winter Winds is literally Slashing Wake, but it also slows, and uses elemental damage, which is almost always better. Especially when you can get twofold pact -> Elemental Pact -> Enjoy your vulnerability, everyone! It DOES cement you into cold damage...but if you're striker, especially an arcane one, you'd probably have to think a bit on how to justify not grabbing elemental damage, due to how potent it is, and cold is pretty classic for a reason. Lots of support. In Heroic, as Demon mentioned, Witchfire is absolutely insane for a feylock. Utilities...swordmage has one really good one (in paragon), and a few okish ones (in level 2, that's Mythal Recovery). Warlock utilities on the other hand can be goddamn monstrous. Consider doing a swordmage utility for level 2 so you can grab something like A Mirror Darkly in 6. A Mirror Darkly is really, really good. It's really good. Generally, heroic is the hardest time for a swordmage|warlock, especially if you're trying to go striker. There just aren't many ways for you to increase your damage; Eldritch Strike isn't a striker's tool, it's a defender's, and likewise swordmage powers tend to be more ehhhhh in damage. In paragon it gets much easier, between the elemental pact that you can twofold into and feylock invisibility shenanigans.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:06
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ProfessorCirno posted:Swordmage/Warlock as a striker can work but it also makes me at least a little bit sad because goddamn is it one hell of a defender. While Slashing Wake (or Winter Winds—I wasn't aware of Long Night Scion but that's a nice upgrade) teleports are my fun gimmick, I'm actually more interested in defense and control powers. I've only heard about one other character concept so far (the flail proner), but I'm expecting a fairly large party (likely six), so I'm sort of envisioning a "fireman" quick response role for myself. I would be interested in your thoughts on Swordmage|Warlock as a defender, although I'm afraid this particular concept is pretty committed to fey pact if that's a problem. I'm also inclined to avoid exploiting frostcheese unless the party turns out to be more optimized than I'm expecting. I want to avoid overshadowing anyone with a power imbalance, and I think high damage is the most obvious and problematic means of overshadowing. Like, great leader or defender abilities are mostly about letting your allies do their thing better, so an optimization difference favoring a defender or leader tends to be less irritating. People are bothered more if you do twice their DPR.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:33
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:While Slashing Wake (or Winter Winds—I wasn't aware of Long Night Scion but that's a nice upgrade) teleports are my fun gimmick, I'm actually more interested in defense and control powers. I've only heard about one other character concept so far (the flail proner), but I'm expecting a fairly large party (likely six), so I'm sort of envisioning a "fireman" quick response role for myself. I would be interested in your thoughts on Swordmage|Warlock as a defender, although I'm afraid this particular concept is pretty committed to fey pact if that's a problem. As a defender, you're going to be using different paragon paths. Coronal Guard, Sigil Carver, Avernian Knight, Shiere Knight, or even Evermeet Warlock all have much more defender-y benefits. The basic idea behind the swordmage warlock defender is to sit next to the opponent and if they hit you, your defenses are jacked to the roof (for example, you're invisible because of Evermeet Warlock or Eyebite) and they achieve nothing. If they hit the other guy, they have to move to do it because you slid/teleported them somewhere inconvenient, and they have to move through something like Antipathy Gloves or White Lotus Hinderance hopefully, and BAM smack/slide/prone and now they can't move again. Oh, and you'll probably have 2 encounter interrupts in case you can't use your defender feature. This can be done as both Shielding and Assault - assault is much more on the striker side because they get to hit and deal damage before you can interrupt them.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:09
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Is there a decent build that can fill the role of defender and leader? The best I could come up with was a wis/cha Paladin but that still seemed pretty limited. Our party is currently three strikers, a controller, and me as a fighter currently, but no leader isn't great.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:24
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You're likely better off having a striker hybridize into a striker/leader like a ranger|cleric. You could swap to paladin like you mentioned to help pick up the slack of only having half a leader, though I'd probably suggest a STR/CHA (baladin) or STR/WIS (straladin) paladin since you'd have better defenses and more defender potential than a WIS/CHA (chaladin) paladin. Chaladins are cool in concept, but were designed before the devs realized that it was a bad idea to double up on the same defense. Since WIS and CHA both contribute to Will, your Fortitude and Reflex are terrible. This is especially problematic as a defender, who will likely be targeted by the most attacks of any party member.
Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 20:35
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Moriatti posted:Hey, please help with my personal arcs subsystem? I really like this idea, but I think (unless magical items are super rare) that gaining powers is generally much more valuable in 4E and could possibly lead to the decision overload that's one of the reason 4E turns can take so long. Zarick posted:Is there a decent build that can fill the role of defender and leader? The best I could come up with was a wis/cha Paladin but that still seemed pretty limited. I don't actually remember if it was intentional but I know in the builder the healer Druid MC feat gave an encounter heal rather than a daily heal, which I used in a low-headcount game a to make nearly full healer hybrid along the lines of Paladin|Cleric (Fighter|Cleric would work pretty decently as well) edit: Funny side effect is the Druid MC heal is also named Healing Word, so if your DM's willing to interpret the rules a bit loose to include a healer in the group anything that buffs 'Healing Word' will help both your heals Darwinism fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 20:57
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| # ? May 9, 2024 17:54 |
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Zarick posted:Is there a decent build that can fill the role of defender and leader? The best I could come up with was a wis/cha Paladin but that still seemed pretty limited. Fighter|Cleric can be legit. BCL lets them keep their scale armor. Both classes are str based, and they're not hard locked into their offstat so you can go dex/cha if you want. It's not a very enabley leader, but it packs a surprising lot of healing into something that plays just like a fighter. Also, it enables Tactical Warpriest as a PP and Tactical Warpriest is the poo poo. May also want to consider getting one of your strikers to hybrid in some leader. Lots of strikers can dip leader without serious loss of performance, and Barbarians/Rangers/Avengers are all very strong as Priest|X.
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Jul 21, 2017 22:17
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