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SKULL.GIF posted:Whenever anyone brings up Michelle Obama running for office I instantly know to disregard any political opinion or analysis they have That's part of what J-Corbz' appeal was/remains in the UK.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:13
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Venom Snake posted:EDIT: In a nutshell I guess what I'm getting at is beating the GOP =/= winning an election against Trump
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Jul 14, 2017 19:14
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jBrereton posted:OK but not losing an election to trump as well as losing to the GOP everywhere else is like one step above that, surely? Id much rather rebuild the party into one that can win on all levels than just kicking the can down the road
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Jul 14, 2017 19:17
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jBrereton posted:People liked her a lot and part of that may have been her alleged dislike of politics + guilelessness. I agree that both don't like the politics-as-usual approach, but I think Corbyn is a lot more politically shrewd than people give him credit for. He's willing to press the attack against an opponent's weaknesses. Michelle is the source of that infamous "When they go low, we go high" quote. Playing for decorum against Donald loving Trump while in the middle of a second wave of popular anger and frustration was like the exact perfect opposite of what the Democrats should have been doing.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:17
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Venom Snake posted:Id much rather rebuild the party into one that can win on all levels than just kicking the can down the road
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Jul 14, 2017 19:18
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Venom Snake posted:Id much rather rebuild the party into one that can win on all levels than just kicking the can down the road
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Jul 14, 2017 19:20
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If Obama somehow was able to run for a third term in 2016 he would win easily since he knew better than to abandon the rust belt. Obama has a gift for orating populist rhetoric as well and would probably turn it up against Trump, even if he wouldn't have followed up on it.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:20
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accelerate good times come on
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Jul 14, 2017 19:21
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jBrereton posted:I think we might be seeing the limits of accelerationism when medium-to-high ranking members of the party are laughing off single payer healthcare under Trump. Its been six months. If its still happening in 4 years then worry, but without a solid election i wouldnt make assumptions.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:22
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SKULL.GIF posted:I agree that both don't like the politics-as-usual approach, but I think Corbyn is a lot more politically shrewd than people give him credit for. He's willing to press the attack against an opponent's weaknesses. Michelle is the source of that infamous "When they go low, we go high" quote. Playing for decorum against Donald loving Trump while in the middle of a second wave of popular anger and frustration was like the exact perfect opposite of what the Democrats should have been doing. I could be wrong though!
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Jul 14, 2017 19:23
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GalacticAcid posted:accelerate good times
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Jul 14, 2017 19:23
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jBrereton posted:People liked her a lot and part of that may have been her alleged dislike of politics + guilelessness. hell yeah Richard codey 2020
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Jul 14, 2017 19:24
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the DSA has been pretty successful so far at getting their endorsed candidates into local govts. it's awesome.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:25
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Matt Zerella posted:the DSA has been pretty successful so far at getting their endorsed candidates into local govts. it's awesome. that's really great and important and i'm glad someone actually listened to what bernard was saying during the primary about needing to do more than elect a good president
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Jul 14, 2017 19:26
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Dreylad posted:that's really great and important and i'm glad someone actually listened to what bernard was saying during the primary about needing to do more than elect a good president it gives me a small bit of hope even if it might be too late.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:27
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russia having a sense of humor is 
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Jul 14, 2017 19:27
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jBrereton posted:I think the reason Clinton actually lost is that her play for the good honest politics angle was incredibly half-arsed and it just ended up putting off people who wanted a "decent" race without "maybe he's broke, nice small hands fucker, putin buy you them????" stuff and also people who wanted a full blooded campaign. The "basket of deplorables" comment probably was a critical hit to her from both sides like you describe, too. It is never a good idea to attack voters. I think she could have won and still stayed "clean" if she'd gone in hard on explaining how Trump is just the latest manifestation of the rich (both because he himself is rich and because the GOP is the party for the rich) promising the world to the people without following through on literally anything. Trump is an excellent example to use because he's the worst excesses of capitalism and American society all wrapped up in one person. That this was somehow never ever argued by the campaign was a huge missed opportunity. Of course I guess my hindsight is a lot clearer on that front since now we know for sure that Trump would have nominated all these saboteurs and CEOs to his administration instead of "draining the swamp".
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Jul 14, 2017 19:30
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i cant believe she survived a harrowing event soldier on 
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Jul 14, 2017 19:31
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https://twitter.com/inthesetimesmag/status/885914017801392130
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Jul 14, 2017 19:34
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Donald "Bustin makes me feel good" Trimp
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Jul 14, 2017 19:37
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loquacius posted:2008 Obama ran as an outsider, so he probably could have won 2016 I don't think Romney was that incompetent. But he was socially awkward and a textbook caricature of a rich plutocrat that fired your dad and cut his pension. Trump's smooth brain gave him a connection to rust belt voters that Romney could never hope to accomplish, despite being worth 1/5th of Trump's net worth.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:42
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Phi230 posted:https://harpers.org/archive/2017/07/its-my-party/ This is a pretty solid article.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:43
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The damage Trump is doing with the powers of the executive are going to take a long time to unravel, if we can at all. It's also a reminder why the "the republicans won't work with a democratic socialist" stuff was bullshit because it didn't matter, a candidate who actually wanted to push for progressive policies would have been able to make huge strides towards that without the need for congress.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:46
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Jul 14, 2017 19:52
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jon assoff
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Jul 14, 2017 19:55
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im the sheriff of suckin ossoff im gon suck ossoff
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Jul 14, 2017 19:59
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SKULL.GIF posted:The "basket of deplorables" comment probably was a critical hit to her from both sides like you describe, too. It is never a good idea to attack voters. lol at the idea that hillary clinton would ever publicly demonize the rich in her $13k sack dresses
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Jul 14, 2017 20:01
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Thoguh posted:The damage Trump is doing with the powers of the executive are going to take a long time to unravel, if we can at all. It's also a reminder why the "the republicans won't work with a democratic socialist" stuff was bullshit because it didn't matter, a candidate who actually wanted to push for progressive policies would have been able to make huge strides towards that without the need for congress. The system is set up so it's easy to wreck but hard to build.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:04
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SKULL.GIF posted:I think she could have won and still stayed "clean" if she'd gone in hard on explaining how Trump is just the latest manifestation of the rich (both because he himself is rich and because the GOP is the party for the rich) promising the world to the people without following through on literally anything. That would have been an insanely easy message for Trump to turn back on Hillary.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:06
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The deplorables speech was less a problem imo than her retractions and backpedaling, which were almost absolutely necessary because someone in her campaign probably realized that you couldn't hammer too hard on that if you wanted your lovely suburban strategy to work since most suburbs are where segregationist whites hosed off during the 90s.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:08
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ThndrShk2k posted:It depends. Obama has, however, the personal popularity and campaigning chops to ameliorate his failures and shortcoming and also to inspire (his base at least) with lofty rhetoric that, even on the worst day of his life, Hillary couldn't touch on her best.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:19
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~deplorable~ ~irredeemable~
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Jul 14, 2017 20:20
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I still think one of the biggest factors was that Trump's reaction to setbacks was "yeah that's right, I said that thing and I'll say it again, gently caress you if you've got a problem I JUST GOTTA BE ME" and Hillary's reaction to setbacks was "poo poo poo poo poo poo what do we do NO QUESTIONS PLEASE Madame Secretary is TIRED and CANNOT take your questions *white noise*"
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Jul 14, 2017 20:20
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Obama has, however, the personal popularity and campaigning chops to ameliorate his failures and shortcoming and also to inspire (his base at least) with lofty rhetoric that, even on the worst day of his life, Hillary couldn't touch on her best. at the very least im glad obama didnt win a third term
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Jul 14, 2017 20:38
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jBrereton posted:I think we might be seeing the limits of accelerationism when medium-to-high ranking members of the party are laughing off single payer healthcare under Trump. Nobody ever said reforming the party would be easy In other news.... https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/885936046210461697 
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Jul 14, 2017 20:39
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loquacius posted:I still think one of the biggest factors was that Trump's reaction to setbacks was "yeah that's right, I said that thing and I'll say it again, gently caress you if you've got a problem I JUST GOTTA BE ME" and Hillary's reaction to setbacks was "poo poo poo poo poo poo what do we do NO QUESTIONS PLEASE Madame Secretary is TIRED and CANNOT take your questions *white noise*" even just recalling that thing with the noise machines during her donor party speech is amazing
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Jul 14, 2017 20:44
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Darkman Fanpage posted:yes, actually. you wouldnt believe what poo poo sheriff departments get away with if u want to realpost then yes the idea of elected sheriffs (and judges for that matter) is loving insane
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Jul 14, 2017 20:46
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Another Trademark Venom Snake Hot Take is that Hillary should have doubled down and acted like a huge rear end in a top hat. She was at the height of her popularity when she was blowing up people in Libya and laughing at bengazhi panels. Nobody likes a nice grandma.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:52
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Venom Snake posted:Another Trademark Venom Snake Hot Take is that Hillary should have doubled down and acted like a huge rear end in a top hat. She was at the height of her popularity when she was blowing up people in Libya and laughing at bengazhi panels. Nobody likes a nice grandma. #WhichHillary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqYJRc0TJkQ
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Jul 14, 2017 20:54
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Venom Snake posted:Nobody ever said reforming the party would be easy Someone get Ellison to watch Jimmy Dore
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Jul 14, 2017 20:58
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