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Covski posted:Sebzilla joined up before the end of the first vote, so in effect you have always been 18 players, until now when Faerie Fortune dropped. Ah, for some reason I thought we started at 18. Sorry to see you go, Faerie Fortune!
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Jul 14, 2017 16:07
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| # ? May 20, 2024 20:22 |
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So, what's thr correct play if they go nd7? f3?
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Jul 14, 2017 17:11
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oath2order posted:So, what's thr correct play if they go nd7? f3? That's what all my sources say, anyway. I think we'd be crazy to play anything else.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:15
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oath2order posted:So, what's thr correct play if they go nd7? f3? I'm wondering between f3, Be2, Ke2 or Kf3, but yeah, absolutely stop playing with fire and go guard our Queen.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:34
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Fat Samurai posted:I'm wondering between f3, Be2, Ke2 or Kf3, but yeah, absolutely stop playing with fire and go guard our Queen. Be2 is interesting; at first it looks like why didn't we play that in the first place? But the answer is they can't capture our pawn with the queen anymore. The downside is, I think, that we're no longer pinning their knight. Ke2 and Kf3 are both bad, I think. Kf3 is the better of the two, though. If we're not threatening the bishop immediately, then they develop something immediately while keeping their bishop where it is, pinning our knight. While we could eventually answer h3, I don't this board position prefers that line. Personally, I like f3 because it progresses naturally into c4, then g4.
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Jul 14, 2017 18:08
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I'm not sure what the point of me as an inexperienced player posting in this thread is tbh, it feels like all im doing is getting told to vote one way or another. Is there gonna be a newbies only game in the future?
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Jul 14, 2017 23:50
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I am also a newbie and all I do is ask what the hell is going one.
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Jul 14, 2017 23:57
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Junpei Hyde posted:I'm not sure what the point of me as an inexperienced player posting in this thread is tbh, it feels like all im doing is getting told to vote one way or another. Is there gonna be a newbies only game in the future? If you have any ideas for what to play I'd love to hear them. bman in 2288 posted:I am also a newbie and all I do is ask what the hell is going one. I can make an effort to include more pictures in discussion if you think that would help you. Chess notation can be confusing if you're not used it.
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Jul 15, 2017 00:44
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I'll be the first to admit I'm at fault for the current state of affairs; the way I've worded my suggestions has probably shut down discussion immensely compared to if I wasn't in the game at all. That's totally my fault, but I don't want that to actually be the case. Let alone that we probably wouldn't win if we just listened to me all the time, I think it makes the game less fun and less of a learning experience for you all. I'll need to remember my audience going forward and phrase things less absolutely; I feel like this is also somewhat the problem with the game of choice, as chess really does have best moves, with extremely detailed writings on openings (which, we're still in the opening). However, even with all my references, I will likely not know a lot pretty soon here. I have a number of things I can do, just let me know what would work best: 1. Offer no move suggestions of my own, but involve myself in the discussion of moves. 2. Never refer to a video, article, or book for the rest of the game 3. Just straight up leave the game Or whatever else you think would make this game more fun for you all. My problem is I just get really competitive and want to win these types of things, so that's the mindset I went in with, and while I noticed it could have been a problem pretty early I really didn't dial it back anywhere near enough, I think.
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Jul 15, 2017 01:06
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I don't really mind, for what it's worth. If you have the most information, it's beneficial for us to learn what moves you feel are best.
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Jul 15, 2017 01:15
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jon joe posted:I'll be the first to admit I'm at fault for the current state of affairs; the way I've worded my suggestions has probably shut down discussion immensely compared to if I wasn't in the game at all. That's totally my fault, but I don't want that to actually be the case. Let alone that we probably wouldn't win if we just listened to me all the time, I think it makes the game less fun and less of a learning experience for you all. I'll need to remember my audience going forward and phrase things less absolutely; I feel like this is also somewhat the problem with the game of choice, as chess really does have best moves, with extremely detailed writings on openings (which, we're still in the opening). However, even with all my references, I will likely not know a lot pretty soon here. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm reading and looking for the exact same sources as you; you just seem to be finding them more often and doing more  posting (which I appreciate as it makes it easier to find info)
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Jul 15, 2017 02:05
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3 is right out. Maybe save the articles and videos backing your argument for the turn after we make the move? A sort of time-delay lock to balance discussion and education? I am sure that Chessty Puller and whatever other crazy plans will have their days in the polls after the opening moves are through.
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Jul 15, 2017 15:55
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 15, 2017 16:54
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Alright, let's initiate the Bishop trade. Or scare off the Bishop. Whatever works. Pawn F2 to F3.
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Jul 15, 2017 16:55
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Yep, we're forked. So we have to make the same move we should have made last turn, only now it's going to cost us a bishop. Good job idiots. f3 Added Space fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 16:57
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Dr. Fetus posted:Alright, let's initiate the Bishop trade. Or scare off the Bishop. Whatever works. I don't think we should offer them a bishop trade prior to trading pawns. That they made the incorrect move here tells me they have less resources than us, so they may fall for capturing our queen when we make the move dxc6.  Fat Samurai's early post outlined why: Fat Samurai posted:Ok, while the best answer is probably something about the lines of moving something to e2 or pawn to f3 (probably this), the sheer balls of checking while our Queen is in jeopardy has made me to run a couple of scenarios, and... it doesn't seem such a bad move? It's a great post, highly recommend reading it.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:04
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jon joe posted:I'll be the first to admit I'm at fault for the current state of affairs; the way I've worded my suggestions has probably shut down discussion immensely compared to if I wasn't in the game at all. That's totally my fault, but I don't want that to actually be the case. Let alone that we probably wouldn't win if we just listened to me all the time, I think it makes the game less fun and less of a learning experience for you all. I'll need to remember my audience going forward and phrase things less absolutely; I feel like this is also somewhat the problem with the game of choice, as chess really does have best moves, with extremely detailed writings on openings (which, we're still in the opening). However, even with all my references, I will likely not know a lot pretty soon here. If you want my input this, absolutely don't stop posting! Your posts are super insightful and providing a lot of great reading for us observers. However, I'd agree with the suggestion of adding more images for ease of comprehension, especially when going over several different lines in the same post! Junpei Hyde posted:I'm not sure what the point of me as an inexperienced player posting in this thread is tbh, it feels like all im doing is getting told to vote one way or another. Is there gonna be a newbies only game in the future? Yeah, I'm absolutely considering running a newbie game after this, assuming this game concludes in a somewhat reasonable time frame!
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Jul 15, 2017 17:06
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Added Space posted:Yep, we're forked. So we have to make the same move we should have made last turn, only now it's going to cost us a bishop. Good job idiots. No sir, this isn't a problem at all; we capture with our pawn. We would absolutely love it if they took the bait of our queen, because then their best case scenario is the loss of their own queen and bishop, with their worst case being checkmate if they select to push their queen to block for the king. Here's the board state of the move we make after they capture with their bishop, if they opt to do so:  See?
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Jul 15, 2017 17:08
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Actually, I agree with Fat Samurai's plan after having read it over. Making our Queen into bait would be a very tempting move, and who knows if they would see our pawn checking plays coming. I can't really see any holes in the plan either. I change my vote from Pawn F2 to F3 to Pawn D5 x C6.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:12
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jon joe posted:No sir, this isn't a problem at all; we capture with our pawn. We would absolutely love it if they took the bait of our queen, because then their best case scenario is the loss of their own queen and bishop, with their worst case being checkmate if they select to push their queen to block for the king. I don't think they're going to take the bait. If we play dxc6 I feel they'll just play bxc6. My vote is for f3.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:13
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Cloud Potato posted:I don't think they're going to take the bait. If we play dxc6 I feel they'll just play bxc6. My vote is for f3. And if they take bxc6, we've proven our pawn up; before it was tenuously hanging on a thread due the presence of the knight, but then it would be traded off for another pawn. Afterwards, we just play f3, which puts us the same blocking position, but in a way better board state in our opponent regardless of whether they choose to retreat or take our bishop.  See?
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Jul 15, 2017 17:16
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Not to overstate how great this position is or anything, but them pushing forward their pawn was the worst response they could have had, and offering the pawn exchange is how we prove it. It's the entire reason we wanted to play this move (with the slight edge bonus of blocking their queen from moving out had they played the correct line of Knight to d7, seen here:
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Jul 15, 2017 17:20
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If we do NOT take dxc6 here, the board becomes pretty bad for us: The best move our opponent could make here is the retreat, not the capture.  To which we retreat in response:  More threatening from them:  Another retreat from us:  And finally they prove why this was such as bad move on our part by equalizing pawn with cxd5  Except their board state looks way better than ours does for equal material. This is why an early f3 is extremely bad for us. By proving our pawn advantage with dxc6, we prevent this scenario, still get the block off, and open the opportunity for our opponents to make a huge blunder.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:27
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jon joe posted:And if they take bxc6, we've proven our pawn up; before it was tenuously hanging on a thread due the presence of the knight, but then it would be traded off for another pawn. Afterwards, we just play f3, which puts us the same blocking position, but in a way better board state in our opponent regardless of whether they choose to retreat or take our bishop. And then they play cxb5, we retaliate with fxg4, they play Nxg4 and the whole thing's gone to poo poo.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:27
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Cloud Potato posted:And then they play cxb5, we retaliate with fxg4, they play Nxg4 and the whole thing's gone to poo poo. We would absolutely love it if they responded to fxg4 with Nxg4:  Our move, queen takes knight on g4.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:29
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jon joe posted:We would absolutely love it if they responded to fxg4 with Nxg4: Hmm, maybe. Not sure where we'd go from there, though.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:39
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Yeah, Pawn D5 x C6. is the move here. Le me state this again: If they take the Queen, we end up, at the very least, a Bishop up, plus we mess up their lines a lot. Cloud Potato posted:I don't think they're going to take the bait. If we play dxc6 I feel they'll just play bxc6. My vote is for f3. While perfectly possible, bxc6 leaves their pawn on c completely isolated on both sides, that's enough of an advantage I'm willing to move our Bishop back to e2 and call it a victory:  Black to move. Notice how: - Their Queen's Knight is blocked and so is their King's Bishop. They need to move a pawn first (right into the crosshairs of our d pawn in some cases, if I might add) to develop either of them. - Trading their Bishop means they kill 1 of their two "open" pieces. - We can easily move both Knights and Bishops. We're way, way ahead of them in development.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:43
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Cloud Potato posted:Hmm, maybe. Not sure where we'd go from there, though. Go from being a knight up? Victory. Knight to g4 would be an absolute blunder by opponents and we'd be 3 points of material up (knights are worth approximately 3 points of material. For reference, pawns are worth 1.) I can really no longer predict what our opponents will do, but I predict it will go something like this:  Safe move, meant to protect. In response, we move as so:  They can't capture, as this would prompt recapture by our castle, letting out the beast. So instead:  Another safe developing move, because they can't do much else. Preparing for a king-side castle.  Capture another free pawn. Things get even worse for them in alternatives involving supporting b5 pawn with their queen, but I'll go over that should we get there. Fat Samurai posted:While perfectly possible, bxc6 leaves their pawn on c completely isolated on both sides, that's enough of an advantage I'm willing to move our Bishop back to e2 and call it a victory: e2 is another option, yes. Once again, we can discuss it once we get there.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:53
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dxc6 is definitely the power play here.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:10
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I'll vote for dxc6 as well. Though more because f3 at this point will probably result in both sides losing their bishops, and despite that being an even trade, going for a move that will make us lose a piece for no clear advantage seems kinda dubious to me. In my beginner eyes, anyway. If dxc6 goes through, and they respond with bxc6 (which seems to me their best option), I'll probably vote for FatSamurai's Be2 suggestion instead of initiating the even trade. By the way I'm just gonna try to voice out my thoughts even though I'm not 100% sure I understand everything completely, so hopefully that's not gonna bother the more knowledgeable people around here 
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Jul 15, 2017 18:26
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blizzardvizard posted:By the way I'm just gonna try to voice out my thoughts even though I'm not 100% sure I understand everything completely, so hopefully that's not gonna bother the more knowledgeable people around here  I don't think anyone knows a lot about chess here, so please do so.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:50
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All this discussion has definitely got me behind dxc6.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:24
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White Pawn in D5 to take Black Pawn in c6 or as it is commonly known dxc6. What a pawn does after it gets promoted is not Chessty's business, though that is getting a bit ahead of myself.
habituallyred fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 20:32
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We went into this with this being the best case scenario. There is no reason to back off now. dxc6.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:34
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Ok, sure. At worst we capture a pawn for losing our queen. Changing f3 to dxc6
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Jul 15, 2017 20:35
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One thing I'm stuck on, what happens if they don't take the bait and do bxc6? In that case, the board looks like this. That looks like a pretty bad fork to me. Edit: Is there where we Be2 and exchange bishops? oath2order fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 20:43
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OK. That's a pretty strong consensus, so in the interests of keeping the game's pace up I'm changing my vote to dxc6, and I think that's the 10 votes required. Will they take the queen-bait?
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Jul 15, 2017 20:44
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oath2order posted:One thing I'm stuck on, what happens if they don't take the bait and do bxc6? In that case, the board looks like this. That looks like a pretty bad fork to me. That's our choice of f3 or Be2. I prefer f3 and Fat Samuri was talking about Be2, but the reason why either is good is because we've proven our pawn advantage (proven in this game means it can not be easily taken away from us anymore) while also having a better board position.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:45
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dxc6 wins the vote with 10 votes! (9 needed for majority)
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Jul 15, 2017 21:30
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| # ? May 20, 2024 20:22 |
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Black has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:55
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